RME upgrading...

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

That's really the nice thing about the RME update which everyone keeps acting like its horrible. The RMEs are not so amazing they make the Delve weapons worthless or pale in comparison, while yes, some people will be mad they are not super duper amazing weapons from the gods themselves, I am honestly happy the gap is smaller rather than larger, they are strong enough to be better, weak enough to be able to be dealt without. This means, no RME119 only shouts, no requirements of having one, no getting called gimp without one, so on, just if you want one, get one, shows your dedicated to that job, if you do not have one, you can still use 119 weapons and be just slightly weaker, oh no.

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Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

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Originally Posted by predatory

Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

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Eh I kinda have to say that I see Demon playing a lot actually, a multi tasker but he gets a lot of things done ingame. o. o

I normally post while waiting on things. Doing Monstrosity with 5 mobs on me, afk, post some, come back. Gathering for Delve, tell the leader to send me a tell when were about to enter, look back to the forums for more posting. Doing Skirmish and we have 2 BLMs dominating everything, well, no need to pay attention there, I know what to do...

I do not troll from what I understand it to mean, trolling being when you post only to make others angry or annoy them, I post to make a point, sometimes I do it normally, sometimes argumentatively, sometimes sarcastically, but I am always trying to make a point, its just a matter of if its lost on you or not.

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Originally Posted by predatory

They were already upgraded once, why should a person have to redo all that work, just to make them as strong as a Delve you can farm in a week. wtf is wrong with you people?

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What do you have to redo? Last I checked you had to collect 300 of some brand new item to give your weapon a 20 level upgrade. That's beans compared to the previous trials. If you could gather up 1500 HMPs then this is a cakewalk for you.

As others have said they're superior to delve weapons, but not so superior or so easy to obtain that they adversely affect everyone else in the game that doesn't have the resources to make one. You get to be at the top of the DPS chain, have a prestigious item, and you're not hurting anyone else in the process. I don't see how that's not a great solution for the game as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

What do you have to redo? Last I checked you had to collect 300 of some brand new item to give your weapon a 20 level upgrade. That's beans compared to the previous trials. If you could gather up 1500 HMPs then this is a cakewalk for you.

As others have said they're superior to delve weapons, but not so superior or so easy to obtain that they adversely affect everyone else in the game that doesn't have the resources to make one. You get to be at the top of the DPS chain, have a prestigious item, and you're not hurting anyone else in the process. I don't see how that's not a great solution for the game as a whole.

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That is what I'm saying for the first time they didn't massively over correct. The items drop enough to keep the price reasonable and at the same time low enough to revive old content(and some not so old) that was just sitting there as everyone sat in town moaning how there was nothing to do. As time goes on the price will drop even lower. Really should be happy they listened in the first place and if you been playing this game long enough to have a REM you should know how SE treats the items needed to upgrade them.

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me

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Originally Posted by predatory

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me

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Wow so much angst. It does not take a long time to get the new version of AF at all.... Hardest difficulty everyone gets 4 pages to their own loot pool per orb and you get 3~4 in the pool. It takes only a few hours with this campaign to farm 20 seals. The whole thing was a grind and mega time sink before SOA as well, what are you smoking? Farming dyna 24/7 or some other money activity to buy your way to a REM. THEN you had to do trials on trash mobs over and over for the finished product. What part of that is not a time sink? Do you realize what an MMO is? Did you expect to log in to an instantly powered up REM for no effort? Get real.

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Originally Posted by predatory

Well if you love the system for upgrading RMEs and AF so much, hop to it, if you're truly upgrading AF and RMEs well bully for you, but you seem to spend alot of time trolling the forums for someone with so much on his plate

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People can post on these forums and still enjoy/play the game... Sooo bitter.

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Originally Posted by predatory

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them?

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I can think of a few reasons. They left and found something else. They left and noticed how much they wanted to leave, but were kept by friends or the sense of having to much to leave behind. They stay away because they do not want to work on catching back up to everyone else now that they fell behind so much with next to no chance of returning. They do not return because their friends left too, and are not in contact with them anymore or they simply do not want to return, meaning they would be returning alone. Many reasons.

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While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there.

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A massive fk up would be to leave the game without anything to do or without any incentive to do it.

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The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them.

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Honestly it would be stupid to invest in things to bring people back, most people wont come back no matter what they did because simply put we have played this game so long and we see how it goes, if you can get out, run, and never come back, because the service is not that great normally and it never seems to get better. The people who are here are normally here for friends or for the fact they invested so much into the game already, and want to leave neither behind, and once they leave, they either come back for friends/nostalgia, or the stay gone.

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Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

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Actually no, I count your vote as a vote of 1, uno, ichi, not any more than that. You can not speak for 1600 other people all on your own and expect anyone else to listen to you. if you want to count the people who left as votes in agreement with you, your a fool, because simply put had I quit, you would not be representing me at all, and trust me, were it not for friends, I would have quit long ago, not to mention right after this most recent of updates.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I can think of a few reasons. They left and found something else. They left and noticed how much they wanted to leave, but were kept by friends or the sense of having to much to leave behind. They stay away because they do not want to work on catching back up to everyone else now that they fell behind so much with next to no chance of returning. They do not return because their friends left too, and are not in contact with them anymore or they simply do not want to return, meaning they would be returning alone. Many reasons.

A massive fk up would be to leave the game without anything to do or without any incentive to do it.

Honestly it would be stupid to invest in things to bring people back, most people wont come back no matter what they did because simply put we have played this game so long and we see how it goes, if you can get out, run, and never come back, because the service is not that great normally and it never seems to get better. The people who are here are normally here for friends or for the fact they invested so much into the game already, and want to leave neither behind, and once they leave, they either come back for friends/nostalgia, or the stay gone.

Actually no, I count your vote as a vote of 1, uno, ichi, not any more than that. You can not speak for 1600 other people all on your own and expect anyone else to listen to you. if you want to count the people who left as votes in agreement with you, your a fool, because simply put had I quit, you would not be representing me at all, and trust me, were it not for friends, I would have quit long ago, not to mention right after this most recent of updates.

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You have a post count of 4258 posts on feedback forums and I'm the fool?

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Originally Posted by predatory

You have a post count of 4258 posts on feedback forums and I'm the fool?

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Petty attacks, you can do better than that.

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Originally Posted by predatory

Lol if this was such a great idea, why didn't anyone come back to take advantage of it? Could it be possible that RME owners who haven't returned haven't returned because they already paid their dues on their weapons and don't feel like spending another few months rebuilding them? While you guys cheer SE on in this you're giving them the idea they are doing it right, but if they were the servers would be filling back up rather than bleeding out. If you guys really want to save this game and make it last a few more years, then you need to stop being head cheerleaders for massive fuck ups. We need to point the developers in a direction that's going to make people like me that want content vs time sinks back to the game, and there are alot of us out there. The only reason I post on these boards is to let them know they are headed in the wrong direction to bring us back, and hopefully they get it right soon, because I would love nothing more than to play the game again, but I refuse to pay for a broken product, and this is definitely a broken product. You know how you can tell it's broken? Me and 1600 other people left because of the SoA fuck up, and they think we are going to come back because they make an update where we can upgrade our af to geo run af levels but only if we spent 20x the time involved getting geo and run af sets, or people who left that built rme's will come back so they can spend another 6 months upgrading them. Get it now? They fucked up and before anyone will come back they need to fix the flaw, you guys who are telling them they are doing it right, are obviously in the minority, because me and 1600 na prime time players on each server say they're doing it wrong. You may post here on these boards a lot, but you are in the minority

edited because this whole conversation pisses me off and if I said what I really meant to say they'd probably perma-ban me

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well it's a good thing it's their game and they can do w/e they want with it right?

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Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory

I was arguing that what was healthy before was that there were viable and equal alternatives to get you to "the best weapon in the game."

Don't like Dynamis? Make an Empy.
Don't like NM camping? Make a relic.
Alexandrite? Relics and Empys exist.

All three were functionally interchangeable... and thusly, more people had access to "being teh best" by the virtue of alternatives.
Obviously there are exceptions... Like Gungnir... Or Claustrum.... Poor super-crappy relics...
But now.... It's all funneled into Delve.
Which is an event that excludes just over half the playable jobs in the game. (mnk, sch, drk&sam, drg, whm, brd, cor, geo... that's pretty much it... 9/22)

Sure, one can argue that there's a BCNM that you can farm too... but unless you're seeing the comparable drop rates to 6NMs dropping 1+ per kill....
Then that's not a real viable alternative.

It's not an argument over which gives you more money base or dreamworld dynamis...
It's an argument for the NM camping to make an Empy over being forced into any dynamis area to make a Relic.

THAT's what had contributed so much to FFXI's longevity... Or at least a part of it anyways. (and Hater's gonna hate... but Abyssea didn't kill off server populations.)
Funneling the REM update through delve is exactly like not updating the REMs in the first place... because it tells you "go-play-delve-NOW!"

Some people don't like Delve.
Some people (this is me) don't like the people who play Delve. (I've met too many dbags and not enough nice ppl in Delve, endgame has always brought out the worst in ppl... but not like Delve.)
And then there are those that just don't have access to the means to get to Delve.

Making the drops be sellable is good... but, again, not all of us have 400M to blow on these items.

And it's... almost adorable... this update for the REMs... because I can see why the devs did it like this instead of just adding to the translurry table.
It's part of the critical failure that they have at understanding the human emotional attachment to the REMs...
They discarded them because they didn't understand that humans create an emotional bond with something that they spend a lot of time with (see GLaDOS and the Companion Cube).
But what the Devs saw when they saw ppl wanting their friends back... was the timesink.
It seems that a lot of ppl are taking this update as a slap in the face...
But I'm sure it wasn't meant as such...

In fact I'm pretty sure... No. I am 100% sure that they Powers that Be thought that this 300 BS item farm was JUST what people were asking for...
TBH, I don't think there'd have been much backlash had the number been something "big but reasonable" like 50 or even 100.
Sure there'd be bitching and moaning... but there'd be a BUNCH of support for it.... at least more than there seems to be now.

And if the 300 BS item were to be maintained... Had these items been "the new geodes/-ites" that drop off of any Adoulin mob but drop in troves in Delve...
Then I don't think there'd be as much resentment either. (That'd be a dreamworld vs normal Dynamis debate/choice.)

One of the reasons for the backlash against requiring to do delve is the ease in which the delve 119 weapons can be gotten.
A "why spend a month getting 300 thingies when I can just spend an hour and have a w/e"...
Other reasons are what I've already mentioned above this "paragraph."

On that note... I actually think the effort might be worth it... all REMs have that +30% damage... so... theoretically... 119 REMs might just blow all the current 119 weapons out of the water...
We won't know for a bit.
But I suspect that the 119REMs will out perform the 119 MegaBoss drops.

It's sadly adorable imo that the Devs thought that the grind is what people missed from the REMs...
But then again...
It seems like the REMs are also the "red headed stepchild".

Let us look at the "legitimate children" who got their iLvs boosted: the skirmish weapons.
IMO, I say that they Yorcia skirmish was probably the BEST thing to happen to Adoulin.
Because it turned these crappy 105 weapons into weapons that were comparable to Delve 113 weapons. (This is also an example of alternative variety. You don't have to Delve to have a 113 weapon anymore.)
And the process of upgrading them was a simple: Trade <item>; check KI: 1/0; if;then spawn <item+1>

And what's even better, is that due to the augments... a skirmish 113 weapon or a 113 delve weapon can be used based upon a player's gear and playstyle.
Some setups the Delve will be superior, others, the skirmish...
But for all intents and purposes... the difference between them is negligible.
(Again, player agency comes to bear here. For instance, I prefer the straight +10str and +acc from a rank15 Bereaver over a comparably augmented Crobaci+1. But I'm Elvaan so... a higher acc from more "fake" skill and augments is more important to me than that sweet +2% DA that comes with the trade offs of higher base dmg and longer delay... There are strengths and weaknesses to using each of these 113 GSs... but it's ultimately up to playstyle and player agency to pick which to use.)

I could argue that the reason why REMs didn't use the simple updater of the translurry is because they are the "redheaded stepchild"...
But that would be wrong I think... I mean... maybe that is why they did it the way they did...
But I honestly believe that they believed they were giving the people what they wanted: a 300 BS item grind.

Because I honestly think that the Powers that Be believed that the complaints against the REM-outdate was a lack of magian trial grinding in Adoulin.





Last thing: Is anyone else worried about Afterglow? I don't even actually think I've seen one... But... I think we might have broken things... Or at least I hope the devs realized this too...
What happens when I make my 99REM a 119REM... and then want to Afterglow it?
Can... that even be done anymore using a 119 version?
Someone needs to find that out because....
That's kinda a big thing to no longer be able to do... >_>

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Also last I checked when these weapons were released they were top shelf weapons... that usually required doing what was the current endgame to even have a remote chance at getting them... why should you have the best weapon in the game if you don't work the hardest for it?

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

That is a good idea.

Yeah that would be helpful.

Players that aren't skilled and experienced at their jobs should not be allowed to mindlessly farm the best gear among the fastest and best. You're either good enough or not. Work with what you are given, be able to adapt quickly to things, and go out there and get what you want because if you want it bad enough, why would you let shitty requirements get in your way?

Here's a better idea. Make delve mobs have a chance to drop singles, NM's inside the fracture always drop a pouch, delve NM's outside the fracture have a chance to drop a pouch or singles, and bosses drop HQ a pouch (1-50 items perhaps).

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

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While you're at it, can you let us list Dynamis currency, Alexandrite, Heavy metal plates, and the new stones, as well as their pouch equivalents on the auction house?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

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How about asking the dev team to re-use stuff that works instead of re-inventing the wheel every time they design new content. Its mind-boggling how these new pouches arent basically just a copy/paste of alexandrite pouches anyway. That's the bigger problem here.

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Originally Posted by Frodnon

While you're at it, can you let us list Dynamis currency, Alexandrite, Heavy metal plates, and the new stones, as well as their pouch equivalents on the auction house?

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People will use AH bots and you'll never get the discount you're looking for.

Not about wanting a discount, it's mainly about getting inventory back, being able to sell without having to bazaar/shout for days.

And being able to buy without tracking down random people.

While we're requesting things from the AH, how about more than 7 items sellable, just sayin.

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Originally Posted by Karah

Not about wanting a discount, it's mainly about getting inventory back, being able to sell without having to bazaar/shout for days.

And being able to buy without tracking down random people.

While we're requesting things from the AH, how about more than 7 items sellable, just sayin.

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You're either going to have to sell singles or stacks. You'll never be able to put all your currency on the AH at one time and you can already consolidate your currency of a given type down to two slots (singles and hundreds). How much inventory are you really saving?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

There have been some comments requesting to make it so all pouches of items that are used to enhance relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons display the number of items when the pouch is opened, mainly so when leaders open them up everyone knows the exact number.

While this is currently possible with pouches of alexandrite, which uses a specialized process, we will look into a system that will allow this number to be displayed for all of the other items as well.

Please give us a bit of time before we can implement this.

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Thank you.

This will stop people from trying to sell pouches of the items for a higher average value the average amount of items inside in their bazaars :D

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Originally Posted by detlef

You're either going to have to sell singles or stacks. You'll never be able to put all your currency on the AH at one time and you can already consolidate your currency of a given type down to two slots (singles and hundreds). How much inventory are you really saving?

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Quite a bit actually, generally I wait until I have 10 99 stacks to convert them into 100 pieces, not that I would bother ah'ing them as I'm one of the 24/7 Elite Statues that bazaars said items, but it could be beneficial to others who lack this capability.

Pardon me if I'm being naive here, but unless I'm mistaken, the update to RMEs still doesn't come even close to resolving the enormous effort/reward schism between the RMEs themselves and the Delve weapons. True, it makes them as powerful as the Delve weapons, more or less. Sidegrades, if you will.

Quite frankly, this is the exact same trap SE fell in to when they first released the Empyrean weapons: they release a new batch of overpowered weapons that's both more powerful and easier to acquire than the Relic/Mythic weapons. They gave Relic/Mythics Magian Trials to play catch-up, and eventually Heavy Metal Plates (and so on) were introduced as a bottleneck so that everybody and their mother wouldn't have what were (in general) the best weapons in the game. Eventually, Empyrean weapons settled to be more-or-less on-par (but still coming out a bit ahead on average) with Relic and Mythic weapons in terms of effort put in compared to reward received, and the playerbase was more-or-less satisfied . . .

. . . and then Delve happened. Rinse and repeat.

(Quite funny, thinking back on it. Back then I had advocated weakening the Empyrean weapons themselves, but SE then and now seems way too trigger-shy to nerf much of anything--especially anything that deserves it! So now we even have a whole new system where "Item levels" go up so far as 119 with content being designed to match . . . it's an arms race that's spiraling out of control! As excited as I was for SoA, I am now actually happy that I did not have the opportunity to pre-order it, as I am now withholding my purchase in protest of all this nonsense. Accordingly, I've also been playing more sparingly, but that's been more due to shifting my priorities around . . . okay, aside over.)

Let's just face the facts here: to have a weapon on par with a Delve weapon, you could . . .

* Go through the already notorious processes of acquiring a RME weapon.
* Do every Magian Trial required to level them up to 99.
* Then do Delve anyway (or some kind of ridiculous alternative).
* Then Delve (or ridiculous alternative) some more for the final quest.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Or, you could . . .

* Do Delve.
* Delve some more.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Something's gotta give. Or so the legend says.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

How about asking the dev team to re-use stuff that works instead of re-inventing the wheel every time they design new content. Its mind-boggling how these new pouches arent basically just a copy/paste of alexandrite pouches anyway. That's the bigger problem here.

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The final fantasy series has always been about reinventing the wheel. It's why most of their games are popular.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

The final fantasy series has always been about reinventing the wheel. It's why most of their games are popular.

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In fairness, it's also why some of them are perceived in a mixed or negative light.

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

Pardon me if I'm being naive here, but unless I'm mistaken, the update to RMEs still doesn't come even close to resolving the enormous effort/reward schism between the RMEs themselves and the Delve weapons. True, it makes them as powerful as the Delve weapons, more or less. Sidegrades, if you will.

Quite frankly, this is the exact same trap SE fell in to when they first released the Empyrean weapons: they release a new batch of overpowered weapons that's both more powerful and easier to acquire than the Relic/Mythic weapons. They gave Relic/Mythics Magian Trials to play catch-up, and eventually Heavy Metal Plates (and so on) were introduced as a bottleneck so that everybody and their mother wouldn't have what were (in general) the best weapons in the game. Eventually, Empyrean weapons settled to be more-or-less on-par (but still coming out a bit ahead on average) with Relic and Mythic weapons in terms of effort put in compared to reward received, and the playerbase was more-or-less satisfied . . .

. . . and then Delve happened. Rinse and repeat.

(Quite funny, thinking back on it. Back then I had advocated weakening the Empyrean weapons themselves, but SE then and now seems way too trigger-shy to nerf much of anything--especially anything that deserves it! So now we even have a whole new system where "Item levels" go up so far as 119 with content being designed to match . . . it's an arms race that's spiraling out of control! As excited as I was for SoA, I am now actually happy that I did not have the opportunity to pre-order it, as I am now withholding my purchase in protest of all this nonsense. Accordingly, I've also been playing more sparingly, but that's been more due to shifting my priorities around . . . okay, aside over.)

Let's just face the facts here: to have a weapon on par with a Delve weapon, you could . . .

* Go through the already notorious processes of acquiring a RME weapon.
* Do every Magian Trial required to level them up to 99.
* Then do Delve anyway (or some kind of ridiculous alternative).
* Then Delve (or ridiculous alternative) some more for the final quest.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Or, you could . . .

* Do Delve.
* Delve some more.
* Get your 119 weapon.

Something's gotta give. Or so the legend says.

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And other mmos have long grinds for just for just cosmetic. The relics are back where they should be a huge grind you can hold over someone else but not automatically be better then them when it came to doing your role. At 75 and old dyna many were not worth playing FFXI human resources to get a shell to farm up the currency or convincing people to keep grinding cities when all they needed was northlands gear. Even the more dreaded self funded bought all and merc the fights. So get used to it this has been the way it has always been. Franky if dyna hadn't been changed none of this REM crap would be happening now. What changed was even with no gil you could still solo the currency and sell what you didn't need to either cover cost or speed it up with buying currency. If that had never happen most of the Relics holders would be saying let them die since they wouldn't have one.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

If that had never happen most of the Relics holders would be saying let them die since they wouldn't have one.

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I want to get Excalibur pretty much just because it's mother*wark* Excalibur! But that means nothing if I can hypothetically get a better/equivalent Sword for far less effort (and without it looking like an ugly blue airplane), because then why bother?

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

I want to get Excalibur pretty much just because it's mother*wark* Excalibur! But that means nothing if I can hypothetically get a better/equivalent Sword for far less effort (and without it looking like an ugly blue airplane), because then why bother?

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Then you never really wanted it. It is slightly better then the runner up and it shows just how much you love the job just the way it was at 75 were people laughed at plds for making it over shield. Only a couple relics were worth in under old dyna when you had to play more human resources then the game. All the other relics and mystics at 75 were trophy items when you took in account all the effort vs reward. Think back how many people loled at someone for making a GS over scythe or polearm at all. Thfs with relic performed the job they were asked to do no better then non relic thf since all they had to do was poke the mob and get kicked but there were thfs that still made it and took pride in the fact they made something that for group content didn't give them much of if any leg up over the other thfs that just had maxed TH.

What made relics so dirt common was the easy at which you could obtain them after the changes to dyna. I don't care that you think a 3 month solo grind is long and hard it is still far easier and incredibly less stressful the building one under the old system. Trophy items exist to give the hardcore players something to grind towards not something the rank and file to realistically aim for in any speed that they would find reasonable, really it is MMO dev 101. You have hardcore players that just eat content at a speed you could never produce enough for so you give them a long grind to keep them playing.

I know how to read, so there's no need to repeat yourself. I also know that Joytoy was the "serious" sword at 75, so in essence yes I wanted it for the trophy factor more than anything serious.

The problem is that was then, and this is now. Even as "just" a trophy item, SE keeps making bigger and shinier "trophies," with less effort required to get them. This is a valid point to complain about.

Not really. Relics are right were they should be now. Thing is people been wanting old 75 era game back and guess what SE gave you all just that now deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Not really. Relics are right were they should be now.

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This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.

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Thing is people been wanting old 75 era game back and guess what SE gave you all just that now deal with it.

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Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.



Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

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Game is limited in what they can do and SE has given people almost everything they have asked for. Hell delve is exactly what the players asked for. Harder fights able to grind points to get rewards after beating once they even dumbed it down after only a short while. Really though the only people that have any right to complain about how hard they worked for relics are those who built them with out abusing a LS and ran a fair and decent Dyna LS back in the day. Because no matter how much work you think it is now only just helping with the herding of the cats for a dyna LS it is no where near what it used to be.

Where SE messed up really is listening to the player base at all. Everything that has came with SoA is what the player base ask for. I know im repeating this over and over but for goodness sake it's the truth. A small group of players hated and were very vocal about the amount of gear swapping we get stat vomit. Other wanted a return to alliance based content after abyssea we got it. People wanted more grind we get it, people complained delve was to hard they nerfed it. Rewards took to long skirmish has direct drops and trade in with drop rates never really seen for a event before and it is "can do it in your sleep" easy. The RNG is only for the augments but the base gear is so good that even oif you don't get perfect augments on the gear it's still good.

So the player base is to blame for everything just as is SE for listening to them in the first place. If they remove the last bit of hardcore content what is left for them. So SE is trying to please everyone and listening to the players far more then they should. Keep saying straw man but if you look back at older post from the end of abyssea up to now you can pick out everything that was asked that is now in game in some form. The only thing they haven't given is reduction REM items.

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

This is where we disagree. While the power level of Relic weapons are, ultimately, about where they should be right now, the effort required to get them isn't anywhere near matching.



Also, this particular straw man doesn't apply to me at all. For a variety of reasons, I'm glad that the game changed with the risings of the level cap (how the game changed, of course, could use some work).

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I find it hard to see which side of the debate you are on. If you want the relic weapon, go make it. If you don't want the relic weapon, go find something else to use. It's that simple. Raven is absolutely correct in that the RMEs are right where they need to be now. Back to the grindstone for those that like showing off their Epeen.

SE has, and will continue too, to make content for the quick gamer and the grind gamer. That has been evident since the initial inclusion of RME upgrades and similar systems for gear. SOA is no different... you want something comparable to a RME, get a Delve weapon. If you want something slightly better, work on a RME and see in 4-12months.

SE brought back mindless grinding you all wanted and now you complain about it... Makes this taru laugh pretty hard. GL to you and your pockets :D

Just posting to remind the developers that the concept for 300 X items for ilevel 119 R/M/E is terrible. I do not want to wait for months, or years, for the items to be affordable. I already cancelled one account, one more bad decision you guys make and I'll just gonna call it quits. So get your act together.

P.S. I am not willing to devote my time killing Matamata to farm my items, and very much less to invite my friends to join me in a "rinse and repeat" situation.

i don't except this statement that its our fault se made this a grind because we asked for it, frankly even if we did its been so badly implemented if boggles the mind. so what do we have so far, rme weapons that were the best but took a long time to get, se introduce better weapons that for many were easier to get.
RME owners complained.
So for many people here the logical thing to do would be to introduce a short quick quest to bring them back on par with dev weapons and then introduce a more grind development system going forward.

Did they do this? no. all they did was piss of the RME people even more.

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Originally Posted by Riggs

i don't except this statement that its our fault se made this a grind because we asked for it, frankly even if we did its been so badly implemented if boggles the mind. so what do we have so far, rme weapons that were the best but took a long time to get, se introduce better weapons that for many were easier to get.
RME owners complained.
So for many people here the logical thing to do would be to introduce a short quick quest to bring them back on par with dev weapons and then introduce a more grind development system going forward.

Did they do this? no. all they did was piss of the RME people even more.

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Relics became far to common and could be made solo in little time. Now few will be able to make them fast and the rest will take longer. So yes the root of the problem is SE for the dyna revamps making relics soloable and it is not logical at all for a fast quest to be back on top or on par just would mean more work later on for a MMO with a small staff. You all forget this game is paid for and would even make a good profit with only a couple servers of players, not to mention this no longer their flag ship MMO. Most likely there is many in SE that would like nothing more then the game to die off so any threats of leaving doesn't worry SE at all most of you will end up on 14 anyway. Don't believe me the fanbase has already shown they are blind little lemmings and anything with the name Final fantasy on it will sell and people will play.

Stompa if you know so many people that have no LS to help with farming reforge items why not team up and do the normal runs and if everyone takes one orb you can get many drops in a short amount of time. You get personal drops from each orb used plus the loot pool. You also seem to be forgetting that what you are talking about with the proc system you needed a blm, whm, nin and blu to hit all the procs in abyssea. You could change out the nin with thf for TH and hope the blu had enough M.acc to hit nin drk or had a drink on them. If you didn't have proc it was a long grind for those as well if you soloed them. So it wasn't as easy as you seem to be remembering. People could be waiting to see if they will allow exchanges with old seals before joining pugs. But really at normal the fights are no harder then they were at 75 if you have wkr and skirmish II gear. If you don't even have that how lazy can one get. Skirmish is so mind numbing easy that anyone in byald gear can do T2 or even T3 with out much effort. Then back at 75 with old af it could take a lot of effort trying to get help with some of the more annoying AF fights more so if you were doing them at level on your first job.

You may call it a straw man but people whine and complained about how easy it was to get emp armor even to +2 it. What were you doing when people were saying all that, were you telling them it was a good idea that it was easy and that how the game should be or were in enjoying the game while they were on here being vocal.

These upgrades should have been quested instead of what they have implemented (Upgraded AFs should also have been quested also). This whole SCNM and buying x 300 items shows that they lack any motivations to be creative. No one wants to put up with doing something very tedious. The games has changed drastically over the recent years, so the grind mindset should have too.

I would like to own mythic great Katana or a empyrean katana, but, the process in obtaining one is too outrageous. There is nothing challenging in obtaining one, It's pure time consuming. When i see someone with an ilevel 119 R/M/E, i don't congratulate them for their success, rather I congratulate them for putting up with you all (the developers).