Demilune Abyssite after each fight is 100% Upgrades to the next Tier, Please!

Eh, I'm in a bit of a better mood honestly, but really those things are too weak, they are easily solo'd/duo'd with just coming as a DD and speeds things up. That's why I disagree with it in a way, because chloris/glavoid are still more annoying IMO because it's a bit more annoying to actually get all the KI's for them.

Yeah, I can attest to Chloris/Glavoid... Those KIs are a beeyotch to get. And my LS is working on those two NMs for a bunch of folks.

Not everyone has a DD (Damage Dealer) or play like everyone else, damn that would be boring iono~. Um with Chloris, Glavoid seeing that it's 100% KI(s) from each NM, w/ REDproc also having the randomness to get w/o REDproc and having more then one Chloris, Glavoid or up at once. I find that to be easier, but then again it all goes into personal preference to say the least. (Some have better luck then others).

Only thing I could suggest for the soul farming would be, make more than 1 spawn of each or decrease the time between pops.

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Originally Posted by ChuckNorris

And as much as I dislike the guy, I somewhat agree but don't, the change rate on these is pretty high

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Well thats the problem, its pretty high, not any chance at forcing it even by the normal red procs. What they should do is make it so the upgrade rate is the same as now but you can force the upgrade with red like everything else, so there is always a chance of an upgrade for soloers and the like, but people with a party or simply trying to proc it have a 100% chance to get it if its what they are after, and seal parties will be no different than now.

There are to many people doing this activity, could we please have VNMs adjusted. Brulo, Maere and Ogopogo (just to name a few), It would help to have more then one spawn up at once. As for upgrading, standing by (waiting) while others finish their fight, just to wait again on a (10~15min) re-spawn is redundant.

If anything tie all VNMs to the player(s), not the area if you have to. This needs so much attention, adjustments. We do not play a Video game to wait in a (Edit*) line.

It is getting to the point where it is impossible to claim a VNM T2 for an upgrade to T3, cause there are players (Some) with multiple accounts situating their characters to pop and claim every time. I do not find this fair.

Another day- Yet this event is still OVER camped and SE just sits by, says nothing in hopes that this thread gets lost into the abyss.

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What it feels like these days....

This issue has been reported repeatedly for at least a year through official channels. I myself filed "feedback" several times over the last 2 years with basically the same ideas (more spawns, binding upgrade to elemental WS use (red in abyssea), reduced pop times, etc.). Other's have complained as well (or at least said they filed similar feedback). And all we get from SE is silence on the matter.

Now with SoA and every run demanding an "Ochain PLD only" - the hopes of many players are being quashed by the fanatics who are camping these VNMs day in day out... Basically, forcing any casual player out of the the tanking game.

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Originally Posted by Tarquine

Now with SoA and every run demanding an "Ochain PLD only" - the hopes of many players are being quashed by the fanatics who are camping these VNMs day in day out... Basically, forcing any casual player out of the the tanking game.

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Welcome to back when every BRD and PLD were wanting their Daurs and Ochains when Abyssea was hot, and folks were blatantly cheating their way to easy VNM popping.

Be persistant and find a decent timeframe to farm. I helped a friend get his Ochain made from scratch last month.

I would love for them to do this but I doubt they will go back to adjust anything in Abyssea anytime soon if ever.

I am bumping this thread cause I think it so lame that when I log on and try to do something only to watch me get out pulled by a BST needing seals it makes me want to cancel my account again. This wouldn't have been the case if I had gotten my upgrade on my first pop.

Square Enix, it is not fun watching the screen while you wait until someone else kills the mob you are trying to get. It doesn't keep people playing, it's not a time sink it only makes them quit.

They really need to remove the t2 and t3 bottlenecks or adjust the respawn times dramatically. It's getting silly when I'm seeing people shout for colorless souls for up to 750k each. Every other weapon has 3 pops, having these still at 1 pop is a joke, especially since it's time based.

And no, just because there wasn't a bunch of trials before hand makes this any better, if anything it makes it worse. At least you could have partied up with anyone to camp those nms. Anyone who defends this is either making lots of gil out of idiots buying these or has the "I did it, so you should suffer too" mentality.

Yeah basically, I mean even the people who think that since they did it everyone else should have to too, those people I have to find it hard to believe they could think that way, I would not wish the Soul trials on anyone, ever, its terrible.

I wouldn't be surprised if SE doesn't change this at all. They seem to forget that this is a GAME and want you to spend all your time in it (and the more you waste, the more you still need to get done). That message when logging in is just there for legal reasons to cover their ass. Look how long it took them to change Ulli? Look how long it took them to change ground kings? If this gets changed, it will probably be around 2018 in the "Look, we'll fix all the things that we should have in the first place, please don't quit, we want all your money" campaign. Come on Square, prove me wrong. Make me eat my words and change this horrible system. I dare you!

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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I can live with the god-awful upgrade rates, but can't we at least get multiple spawns back on the table? Waiting 10-15 mins on a respawn in a timed area while trying to out-claim half a dozen other parties is not my idea of "equal level" considering all the other weapon mobs have multiple spawns.

Anyway, I guess this is just another example of SE listening to our feedback and kindly telling us to F-off. I suppose we should be excited to at least get a response.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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The system isn't difficult at all. It's very luck based and time wasting. All I'm suggesting is that they add in either more ways to spawn the VNMs, lower the spawn timers for the VNMs (or add more spawns in the zone at once,) or give us a way to get rid of the bottle neck of waiting if people pop the VNM, fight it, and wait for the respawn. It can take up to an hour per zone to get 1-2 souls, with a line of sometimes up to 20-30 people in the zone looking for this. Come on now, this is the biggest bottle neck in the game. At least with doing any other event or trial in the game you can do it at your own pace and not be bogged down by other people.

It wouldn't be so bad if jobs like Paladin didn't have to resort to forcing themselves to get this shield just to be able to play their job. It's just that good, and that is the problem.

Throw out a delve shield with a block rate with about the same and maybe it might change something, but having anything but Aegis or Ochain at the moment makes you more of a detriment than a help.

The abyssite nonsense? Fine, I can deal with that, but at least make it so anyone with the KI can pop it at anytime as long as they can find the NM.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

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not really the best comparison ochain is still godly even at 90 unlike other emps, when they release a sheild that s***'s all over ochain then you have a point.

on topic, yes this system sucks but at least the rewards are still worth the effort, there wasnt a day that went by that i didnt want to drown a bag of kittens because of it, fact is with the way the game is now even my aegis is reduced to town gear if im on pld 90% of the time i use ochain, was it worth all the hell to make it?....YES

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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Do you not understand how stupid this system is? Let me explain why we hate it...

First off, you are trying to claim a NM, which is invisible, and you have to fight some random amount of times for an upgrade, now the first one spawns quickly, lots of them in multiple zones, so its not to bad. But then the second NM, the T2, now you are not alone in camping these most of the time, there are hoards of people, 2~3 parties on average whenever I went to do mine, and its on a 10~15 repop timer. So now you get to fight a NM, which is invisible, you have to /heal to find, which stops you from moving and often allows others to pop it before you, and the KI might not upgrade even if you do get the NM. Now say on average we all get a pop in a cycle, that means if there are 2 other parties, I can get 1 NM every 30~45 excluding fight time and pop time, now, what are the rates for upgrading? 20%? 25%? Lets go with 25%, so once every 4 pops I get a KI to pop the T3. Now lets do some math... 1 NM every 30~45 minutes, Ill go with 40, so 40, times 4, is 160, now 160 divided by 60 minutes is 2 hours and 40 minutes. So it would take me roughly 2 and a half hours for a single KI for my T3 NM. Now say it takes 20 minutes to pop and kill this NM, thats about 3 hours now. So 3 hours have gone by, the other 2 parties are still around, and I killed my NM and got lucky, 2 souls! Now how much longer will it takes? 3 hours per 1~2 souls, say on average I get 1.5 souls, thats 3 souls every 2 kills, that means 75 Souls takes about 50 kills, so about 150 hours spent inside Abyssea, farming, fighting with other people for claim on a single invisible NM roaming around randomly. Assuming all of this you have spent nearly 6 full days inside Abyssea doing nothing but this, competing with other people for this single NM, and there are a lot of things I am leaving out too, retiming, getting buffs/atma, remaking T2 pops, and so on, so really its probably more like 170 hours in total, a week in Abyssea for a single stage of a trial.

Does that accuratly explain the pain of doing this?

Why we hate it is simple, only 1 pop, KI changes and you have to get another, people fight over the single pop constantly, and even when you finally get ahold of it you can not be sure you will get the KI you want, nor can you force it like anywhere else in Abyssea... and so on, its a simply painful and stupid cycle of annoyance and frustration for players.

Pretty much what I was saying without an actual time estimation.

Why is this in the game? Is there any specific reason why at this point for this to be bottlenecked this badly? This is the definition of artificial difficulty. There's no reason for it other than to waste as much time as possible.

Why not make the t3 vnms in the Visions and Scars areas drop Colorless souls? (oh right, they're weaker nms and ppl would instead farm those.)

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Originally Posted by woie

not really the best comparison ochain is still godly even at 90 unlike other emps, when they release a sheild that s***'s all over ochain then you have a point.

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That was sorta my point. Delve weapons shit all over previous weapons and are a million times easier to get, so the whole "it's so hard because the reward is so good" thing is BS. Don't make a weapon that craps all over everything and takes one day to finish and then tell me that some other weapon has to take months to complete because it's equally as good.

ON TOPIC:

This trial is annoying. No one anywhere ever found it fun. It makes us hate you. we don't want to be haters. Break the cycle.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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While I agree that the rewards of ochain/duradabla are very nice rewards, those items are requirements for a PLD or BRD in delve. A player could have all the best gear aside from those two and still a pathetic waste of a spot if they don't have empyrean.

This is the true problem, those items are basic requirements for those jobs to do end-game nowadays, bottleneck is an actual issue thanks to that. Either create new items that are almost as good as lv90 versions or make that trial quicker.
Three ways to make it easier were already mentioned in this thread. make Red proc 100% upgrade (you can lower upgrade when red is not proc'd), increase the # of spawns, or add colorless souls to the list of drops for T3 VNMs in Vision & Scars areas. I greatly prefer making the trial quicker.

I'll echo the sentiments presented over this page. The rationale for keeping things untouched is rather poor.

This is the dumbest system i've ever seen in any game ever, whoever thought of this system needs to be slapped.

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It takes about 8 hours to get a delve weapon from start to finish. Do you really think that these are that much better than delve weapons? Or is this newspeak for "We have other stuff we'd rather be doing so suck it up losers"?

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LOL delve shield isnt better than Ochain and there is no instruments on delve equal or superior to Empy Harp. However reduce repop on VNM should be cool and helpful.

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Originally Posted by Minikom

LOL delve shield isnt better than Ochain and there is no instruments on delve equal or superior to Empy Harp.

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Yeah, that's why people are complaining. If there was a delve shield or harp that smashed the empy harp / shield the way the weapons do, no one would care. They would just make the delve harp / shield. But there aren't delve shield / harps that smash the old ones, so bards / paladins have to go through a bunch of BS that other jobs don't.

Never mind the fact that these trials were obnoxious even back when empy / relics were the best across the board.

Dumb? Sure, but it's not that bad. If you just focus on it, you'll get it done. I finished my Ochain early this year and I'm thinking hard about building a Dardablablahblah.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

We understand that the system is difficult but the rewards such as Ochain and Daurdabla are on an equal level. In a previous version update, we did increase the rate at which Abyssite upgrades and there are no further plans to adjust this system.

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Nokipuit strikes again~

By the way, pretty sure it was only T1 upgrade rate that was changed (which, honestly, wasn't as big a deal, considering there's multiple T1 mobs in each zone and are probably on much faster respawns). T2 was, as far as I know, unaffected.

T1 -> T2 upgrade increase was welcome but should have been only the first step. In addition, T2 -> T3 should have been increased, and let's not forget about T1 -> T2 upgrade rate for outside VNMs. Those should all have been done by now.

And of course, for the first how many months of Heroes, the double drop rate from Maere and Brulo was probably close to 5%.

SE - Please reconsider. Competition for a single spawn per 15 mins per zone is not challenging, it's degrading. The negative feelings are only amplified by the low upgrade rate. Building an Ochain is not fun or challenging... it's off-putting.

"We have no plans of changing this so deal with it" yep that's SE for you. I've helped make a few ochains & I will say, it's no walk in the park. Competition along with sometimes going 0/20+ on upgrading just for a chance at 1 or 2 of the bloody Colorless souls. It's a nightmare.

These trials are intentionally left difficult due to the fact that it only takes 3 trials to get a functional harp/shield, but it takes 10 trials to get a functional weapon. 11, if you want that weapon to be up to the same stage where it no longer takes abyssea items, but requires VW items. So I can understand the need to leave these trials time-consuming to help match the effort required for other empy weapons.

What I find to be unequal about other trials, however, is the competition aspect.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

These trials are intentionally left difficult due to the fact that it only takes 3 trials to get a functional harp/shield, but it takes 10 trials to get a functional weapon. 11, if you want that weapon to be up to the same stage where it no longer takes abyssea items, but requires VW items. So I can understand the need to leave these trials time-consuming to help match the effort required for other empy weapons.

What I find to be unequal about other trials, however, is the competition aspect.

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It takes 1 trial and about 6 hours to build a delve weapon... even the Empy weapons are almost all easier than these.

Oh, you want to compare them to delve weapons instead? I'm not willing to take the other side of that argument. You are correct that a delve weapon is easier to build than an empy weapon.

But making daurdabla (90) requires about the same amount of playtime as making a twashstar (90).

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

But making daurdabla (90) requires about the same amount of playtime as making a twashstar (90).

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I know. The only reason there aren't tons of threads about the pain in the arse that is twash is because there is a better / faster option than twash now.

Honestly, I don't even think they should make this easier. I think they should just add it to the possible rewards from delve as well.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I know. The only reason there aren't tons of threads about the pain in the arse that is twash is because there is a better / faster option than twash now.

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That... and in my opinion when you look at the trials they are completely lopsided, even if there are more for weapons the Shield and Harp are much more difficult.

I can camp lotto NMs in my sleep or while I play another game, progress on them can be made at the same time for everyone in the party, same with VNMs, which makes teaming up possible. Teaming up with others is only not possible once you hit the Abyssea stages, the first difficult stages at all.

ICs are about the same as Visions NMs, besides Glavoid & Chloris they take 2~3 KIs, while ICs take 2 pop items, 1 from an NM and the other from normal mobs. Even if it is on the easier side of things, stage two as we all know and love is much more harsh & time taking.

Sure all of the weapons require a KI from 1 15 minute repop NM, similar to the VNMs, but on something like Gukumatz, Heqet, or Tunga, you can proc red and force the KI to drop, but with VWs, even assuming you get the NM yourself, there is no sure way to make it drop the KI.

If that one were not enough, the weapon is already useful after that stage, but yours is not, the Shield and Horn make look like their finished counterparts but they have no stats at all, only the shape. The next trial is again harder for the Shield and Harp, some weapons share the same NM though, Apadem is done for Kannagi and Almace as well, but its also one of the hardest NMs in Abyssea, by far the second hardest of the ones needed for Emp trials in my opinion, Azdaja is needed for the staff that almost no one makes, and is easily the hardest of the NMs needed for Emps.

So in the end, I would say they are not on the same level of difficulty, rather the Shield and Harp are harder even if they take less trials to complete, because those trials are much harder, specifically the second one, with the third being harder than any item not on the same NMs, and the fact they are forced to complete that 3rd trial before its of any use to begin with.