To: Mr Akihiko Matsui

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

No, that's not what it means.

You're being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

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You don't play many MMORPGs, do you?

Elexia, are you the same Elexia from the FF14 boards? :D

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Elexia, are you the same Elexia from the FF14 boards? :D

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That I am.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

That I am.

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Oh joy! :)

There is nothing in the world stopping people from leveling up the old fashion way. After trudging thru several jobs to 75, I love Abyssea. Merit parties, skill up parties, they are still around just in a different format, but that doesn't mean you can't do it the way it was "Back in the day". There is time to do several things at one time rather than trudge thru day after day, same ole same ole. Some people just don't like change, but now you can have your cake and eat too, old way new way.

adding a p.s.
Not everyone has hours and hours per day to play, Abyssea and other new places has allowed the player who doesn't have the time to get a head and have fun. Isn't that what gaming is about, Fun.

Ok this is nuts.
First off, i find it funny no one noticed few spelling issues a few of these posts, hypocrits much?

Secondly, please take the time to read and consider a person post because going balls to the wall and fling insults, or comment saying nostalgia or rose tinted glasses. That is prety rude.

As for my thoughts. I have playing ever 30 mmo/mud. I've played WoW Aion, mabinogi, maple story, PWI, and many many more. What FFXI had pre abyssea was the best that I've personally saw. None of thre mmo I've played came close to what FFXI offered me.

FFXI USED TO have great teamwork no matter what you did. Sure there was trouble areas, but that was all on the players not the game. I never had an issue getting to join end game shells. Heck, I was a 70 rdm in dynamis. Then a 75 monk, my gear was crap. I did sky, again crap gear but as long as I listen no one cared. You had to work for what you had to do. Thats was the joy of playing. You had to put effort. No one does that anymore.

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Honestly before abyssea was out, ffxi community was the most open, showed great effort, and proved time and again that people was great no matter how they played. Sure people had "perfered" styles. Thats normal. Do what you can, but mostly have fun. As for lotting rules... that just how things had to be at the time. Drop were rare, getting gear took alot of effort. Gil wasn't as easy to come by. The only ones who had a hard time in this game was the lazy, "noods" who would b--- and moan when stuff wasn't handed to them.

As for going afk for free exp.. THAT should be fixed, that is pretty game breaking and it just poves the laziness of the players. If you guys can build 18 man parties for gov/aby you can build 6 man parties. there is obviously enough people, plus ther is level sync.

As for the comment "i have a job and a life I can't play this all the time" thats no one choice/fault then your own. You choose to have a family and you choose to have a full time job, (text limit)

I've played quite a few MMOs as well so I'll give you a gamer protip:

Those who say "rose tinted goggles!" or "nostalgia" are the ones who've only played 1 MMORPG ever or find it the cool thing to hate on FFXI just because. No one who has ever played more than 1 MMO for a certain amount of time would say it's nostalgia or failing to see the truth because the truth of the matter is, FFXI even though used EQ as a base for MMO systems, was one of the best designed MMORPGs out, especially for when it came out. No other MMO had a tangible storyline that you could actually progress through, it's usually implied.

I've played upwards of 10+ Mud/MMOs for at least 2 years at a time and none have come close to what XI accomplished in it's prime, whether you like or hated it you can't deny what it's done.

So people can fling around "rose tinted goggles" and "nostalgia" all they want, those who've played more than 1 MMO will know it's not nostalgia at all talking, it's simple fact of the matter, MMO gamers these days hate to work for anything, they hate putting in time and effort, this is why a lot of people hated Abyssea for example, not because of nostalgia for the old, but because it just trivialized playing an MMORPG.

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you choose to play an mmorpg on top of that. No one is forcing any of that on you. I used to play ffxi for 2 hours a day because my family had to share the ps2, and the internet connection as routers at the time cost to much for us. I still got ALOT done under 2 hrs a day. I knew and know a ton of people who had jobs and familes who played ffxi. You guys act like the player base was only 12-18 years old. I knew and know players up in their 40s. They still got stuff done. It was called "planing ahead" get up with your linkshell or your friends and plan a day you can be on, a time you will be on, and just do the stuff then.

This is an mmorpg, there is and was no need to rush the game. All you need is patience. And you will get stuff done. You also do not need wiki to play this game. Just ask around in game and people will tell you stuff. Yesterday, a new guy from my LS needed help with fame. He was gonna log on wiki, I say why bother and gave him a list of easy to do quests, from each city (TL)

(TL)
telling hime what he needed to get, and the location of the quest giver. What would have taken him probable 30 min of reading, took me 5 min to write. If you ask the right questions you will get the right replies.

I do not hate wiki, but if I can save someone a trip I will do so. But i do hate how the player base on the forums find wiki as the FFXI bible, basicaly acting like "if its not on wiki its not worth doing, if its out dated on wiki its not worth doing". Why play a game based on what an open free forum says?

I also do not hate abyssea, i think the content is fun. I like how the world was set up. I like the lore of said world. What I don't like is how lazy and anti social it made the playerbase. You rarely see vets help newbies... people get what THEY want, then are done with said stuff. That wasn't like that in the past. People generally stayed in the LS for years till they moved on to a new mmo.

Thats my 2 cents.. sorry for the multi posts, but ps3 does have a limit.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

(TL)
telling hime what he needed to get, and the location of the quest giver. What would have taken him probable 30 min of reading, took me 5 min to write. If you ask the right questions you will get the right replies.

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ffxi+fame
3rd result.
That does not take a half hour.

Wiki is an excellent resource and new players should be encouraged to make use of it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I've played quite a few MMOs as well so I'll give you a gamer protip:

Those who say "rose tinted goggles!" or "nostalgia" are the ones who've only played 1 MMORPG ever or find it the cool thing to hate on FFXI just because. No one who has ever played more than 1 MMO for a certain amount of time would say it's nostalgia or failing to see the truth because the truth of the matter is, FFXI even though used EQ as a base for MMO systems, was one of the best designed MMORPGs out, especially for when it came out. No other MMO had a tangible storyline that you could actually progress through, it's usually implied.

I've played upwards of 10+ Mud/MMOs for at least 2 years at a time and none have come close to what XI accomplished in it's prime, whether you like or hated it you can't deny what it's done.

So people can fling around "rose tinted goggles" and "nostalgia" all they want, those who've played more than 1 MMO will know it's not nostalgia at all talking, it's simple fact of the matter, MMO gamers these days hate to work for anything, they hate putting in time and effort, this is why a lot of people hated Abyssea for example, not because of nostalgia for the old, but because it just trivialized playing an MMORPG.

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I call poisoning the well and ad hoc reasoning here. The fact of the matter is that it would be difficult to get together a functioning old school party of six to stay together for any length of time, perhaps much harder than it was long before Aby came along and streamlined the leveling process.

This is done without isolating any jobs, a huge problem before Aby came about. Now we have one of the most streamlined and hassle free leveling systems of any MMO out there.

And yes, it is very much 'rose tinted glasses' the way people talk about old school partying and I don't miss it any despite one of my most memorable parties having been an old school party.

@ elexia

I fully agree with you. I played WoW for 2 years Mabinogi on and off for a year Aion for 6 mnths, Lustrion for a year (the closest community to that of ffxi b4)

Also i do not think speed leveling in 2 caves, then a time restricted field THEN skilling up is efficient.

Thays just leveling fast being lazy then going back.

Max cap was and should be when you have mastered your job. anything b4 max cap should be your learning. There is a HUGE differece between learning ur job, and practicing content. And one shouldn't learn their job from a third party website reading that seems so silly. You don't learn to bake cakes solely reading a recipie... you become better by taking what you learn through personal experince and tweeking it. I've been playing rpgs well before Aol. Honestly its like people are robots... all they do is follow what a third party site tells them. Where is the fun in they?

If you wonder why I think the way I do, was I grew up being taught to think outside the box.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

I call poisoning the well and ad hoc reasoning here. The fact of the matter is that it would be difficult to get together a functioning old school party of six to stay together for any length of time, perhaps much harder than it was long before Aby came along and streamlined the leveling process.

This is done without isolating any jobs, a huge problem before Aby came about. Now we have one of the most streamlined and hassle free leveling systems of any MMO out there.

And yes, it is very much 'rose tinted glasses' the way people talk about old school partying and I don't miss it any despite one of my most memorable parties having been an old school party.

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thats fault of the player base.... not the game. I had freaky party set ups run well. Its all on how patient the players are... the noobs who b-- and moaned couldn't get things done took over. That basically what i feel is what happen. Now the game is full of lazy ppl who insult the older playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

There is a HUGE differece between learning ur job, and practicing content. And one shouldn't learn their job from a third party website reading that seems so silly. You don't learn to bake cakes solely reading a recipie... you become better by taking what you learn through personal experince and tweeking it.

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Why do you insist that there is only one right way people can learn something?

People learn things in different ways, or sometimes not at all.

I learn things better by reading about them first, and then putting what I learn into practice. That's the way I've always been in both life and in video games/rpgs. Am I wrong for learning that way? Please tell me.

I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say I really wish you would stop posting since you are so narrow-minded and constantly abuse inferential logic.

Well its funny to see this thread. Again. <insert funny picture of famous person with MSpainted quote about thread>

Hi guys, I just wanted to throw my two cents in and maybe throw a little perspective about parties, exp, and the people that play.

First off, I am going to say that I of all people COMPLETELY DETEST AND DESPISE the old method of leveling. I was a PLD, a RDM, a THF, a WAR, and even sometimes a SAM (for those who remember when skillchains and magic bursts were pretty top dog for exp) and seeking for party was painful. Half the time, there wasn't a healer available or extra support. No redmage refresh? Oh snap WHM doesnt want to party now. Bard poped up? Nope, he doesn't like that we have a THF and we will not make the famous 8k an hour. Those days sucked. It was like waiting for all the planets to align just to finally have a chance to party, and then making mad prayers that the camp your party qualified for was available. Seriously, ask yourself why on earth you would want to play a game set up like that? I did somehow without losing all sense of sanity. But let me tell ya, it was not as fun as it is now. Exp is easy, and its fun because if I want exp or merits, I can go out and get it. Best part? I dont NEED to assemble a party to do it with. I can go solo, or I can as my friends/linkshell members "Hey who wants to get some exp/merits?" Now thats what I call a game! A game I can PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS.

So like it or not, the change in how we level up has changed, and theres no reason at all to even consider stepping back to the anti-social abyss of "old school" leveling. In fact its ironic, NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE WAY WE KILL THINGS FOR EXP. It is still the same party make-ups, same tactics, and same process. You still need to auto attack the target, Weaponskill when available, use jobabilities/magic to survive, rinse and repeat. Thats a pretty boring process. At least these days, its isn't me targeting my 1 billionth crab or bird. Praise everything good and holy that we can actually go out and be rewarded for fighting other things in life. I will tell you what has changed though. PEOPLE ARE LESS EDUCATED ABOUT HOW TO FIGHT A MOB THAN HOW TO PARTY. Every time i see someone die to a casting mob or something that paralyzes with a potent paralyze etc. my first thought is "oh man they didn't really know how to handle the situation." Usually turns out to be true as my friends and I procceed to pick them up off the ground. And thats the difference between "old school" and "new school." One group has combat experience in fighting all types of mobs, the other has only seen what GoV and Abyssea parties target. Luckily thats an easy fix for most players, just go out and EXPLORE the game. The wiki is nice, but only experience will teach you how to better yourself.

Well since this turned out to be a wall of text, I think I will write a final paragraph in conclusion to my long winded post. Im going to say this right now, as I read these forums, I oft see many people picking at each other and their posts. Now I am all for defeating bad information, but at the same time lets not rag on peoples ability to type or spell or anything. It really destroys the community and really hurts everyone overall. ALSO, if you are the target of said attacks, YOU NEED TO ALSO TAKE THE INITIATIVE to not respond to such attacks and draw out an arguement over said attacks. As a person who was bullied for many years as a child, I share this tidbit of wisdom. Fighting back in the same way only fuels the fire.

Thank you for reading.
~Chuk

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Originally Posted by Rosina

Max cap was and should be when you have mastered your job. anything b4 max cap should be your learning. There is a HUGE differece between learning ur job, and practicing content.

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I mastered my job before hitting the level cap. I was better at my job before the level cap than most players who'd been playing the job for years at cap were. There's nothing special about hitting the level cap in terms of player progression. It's just a number. Sure there's sentimental value to it, but that's about it really.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

And one shouldn't learn their job from a third party website reading that seems so silly.

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I'm better than most because I spent time on those sites reading and learning. I know it's cliché, but knowledge really is power.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I've played quite a few MMOs as well so I'll give you a gamer protip:

Those who say "rose tinted goggles!" or "nostalgia" are the ones who've only played 1 MMORPG ever or find it the cool thing to hate on FFXI just because. No one who has ever played more than 1 MMO for a certain amount of time would say it's nostalgia or failing to see the truth because the truth of the matter is, FFXI even though used EQ as a base for MMO systems, was one of the best designed MMORPGs out, especially for when it came out. No other MMO had a tangible storyline that you could actually progress through, it's usually implied.

I've played upwards of 10+ Mud/MMOs for at least 2 years at a time and none have come close to what XI accomplished in it's prime, whether you like or hated it you can't deny what it's done.

So people can fling around "rose tinted goggles" and "nostalgia" all they want, those who've played more than 1 MMO will know it's not nostalgia at all talking, it's simple fact of the matter, MMO gamers these days hate to work for anything, they hate putting in time and effort, this is why a lot of people hated Abyssea for example, not because of nostalgia for the old, but because it just trivialized playing an MMORPG.

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You don't have to spend ten years playing every MMO under the sun to know that sitting in jeuno with your flag up for weeks on end isn't fun. I'm sorry that you are a slow learner. There is a difference between being lazy and not wanting to waste time on trivial crap. The old method is still available. The reason you can't find others to do it with you isn't because they are smart enough to know not to do something they don't like if they don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Funny you ask. What happened was I quit XI and deleted my character a few weeks before the release of FFXIV. Now I'm back. I quit that game only because you can cap a job in a single day and there is virtually no mid-game. Perhaps you'd be better off sticking to asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions.

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Funny... So, you are a hypocrite who got bored of the game and quit before abyssea even became the norm. Congratulations. You are proof that the old leveling methods needed to be changed.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So, you are a hypocrite who got bored of the game and quit before abyssea even became the norm. Congratulations. You are proof that the old leveling methods needed to be changed.

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Quoted for truth. Things are better the way they are now, in my opinion.

Every sense eye started reeding theez forumz eye have notised that peeple who reelly like old skool partiez and HNMs have bad languge skillz. Eye hop they r batter n game then they r on four rums.

I'd hope to be better than someone on four rums, myself. That said, regardless of whether or not Abyssea exists right now, the point is you can't do anything about it, and the game will certainly not take a 180° turn to the quote-unquote olden days of waiting hours for a 2 hour party for 3 levels at best!

Like it or not, the state of the game is good as is, and will progress in tandem to how people have adapted to it: a faster pace.

Also I haven't slept for a full day again, does this all make sense? someone correct me if I'm not being coherent.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Funny... So, you are a hypocrite who got bored of the game and quit before abyssea even became the norm. Congratulations. You are proof that the old leveling methods needed to be changed.

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Who said I got bored of the game? Oh, that's right - you did. In case you're wondering, the post you quoted said something more to the effect that I quit to play FFXIV. Out of curiosity, is it just me, or do you always go around attacking things that don't attack you first? Like trees? - Do you go around punching them at random?

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Originally Posted by Modoru

I'd hope to be better than someone on four rums, myself. That said, regardless of whether or not Abyssea exists right now, the point is you can't do anything about it, and the game will certainly not take a 180° turn to the quote-unquote olden days of waiting hours for a 2 hour party for 3 levels at best!

Like it or not, the state of the game is good as is, and will progress in tandem to how people have adapted to it: a faster pace.

Also I haven't slept for a full day again, does this all make sense? someone correct me if I'm not being coherent.

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Coherent enough! What I really understand is people trying to justify their distaste for classic FFXI because they essentially got nothing accomplished because it wasn't handed to them. See: "I waited for hours and never got a party"; Well, yanno, usually you don't get much of anything handed to you. If you want it, go get it, and don't blame anyone else but you for your lack of ability in getting EXP on your THF or DRK or whatever.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ffxi+fame
3rd result.
That does not take a half hour.

Wiki is an excellent resource and new players should be encouraged to make use of it.

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i'm talking reading each quest in full. Through out the city. And my time posted was an adverage of reading. Not exact time.

Also, I never said it was bad. But not nessiccary either. Use it if people are busy. If someone willing to respond, no need for it.

That's hardly fair though -- in a game where getting anything worth getting *required* groups, or at least a decent leveled job beforehand (and this job usually, with decent gear, hence a conundrum), to do reliably without the aid of a group [ie RDM soloers~] meant you needed to have a party to exp, because soloing was pretty much wholly counterproductive! Not only that, save for a few jobs (BST, BLM in some occasions, PUP, SMN), not everyone could solo efficiently, either. There were just a few things that would pretty much hinder the quality of gameplay for a lot of users -- after all, this is a game, meant to be enjoyed, not meant to become a lifestyle in which everyone has to be working their behind off for the progress of one level after a few hours on their own.

I'll follow up on this when I have brain cells!

The most hilarious thing about the claims that old-school XP was somehow morally superior to modern XP is the implication that grinding mobs in a classic party was actually objectively difficult and required you to actually be good or get better in order to progress. It took me longer to get to 75 than like anybody, but I never would call it hard. I just switched to SAM and started miraculously getting more invites.

If you think old school partying represented a test of anything other than patience/whether you had anything better to do with your life, I can only conclude you must either be pretty terrible at FFXI or have never done a remotely difficult thing, like, ever!

You know what is funny. What i said is actually the truth. I never sat waiting for a party. I either solo'ed, did quests, talk to my linkshell, or formed own party. The only ones who are to blame for "waiting x hours in jeuno" are the people who "waited x hours in jeuno." There was a ton to do in game, there was no need to t in jeuno. Just out your flag up and go do stuff if forming a party wasn't your forte.

So etty much forums (outside a few) are all the noobs who cried over the game because they couldn't leech or got kicked outa there parties for leeching.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Who said I got bored of the game? Oh, that's right - you did. In case you're wondering, the post you quoted said something more to the effect that I quit to play FFXIV. Out of curiosity, is it just me, or do you always go around attacking things that don't attack you first? Like trees? - Do you go around punching them at random?

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Oh, my bad. You quit the game because it was too awesome for you. Got it.

EDIT: I find it odd that you feel attacked, when you are essentially calling the entire group of people who play this game lazy.

You guys come in here and go "I think everyone who plays this game is lazy. Please force them to work harder for my amusement."

and then you feel attacked? interesting.

scaevola

Well before the wiki bible days. Yes this was true. Players had to learn job AS they played. There is more to the game then mindless zerging of mobs. Players had to actually work together, time their skills right or a wipe would happen. You don't learn anything from mindlessly zerging easy pray mobs. You do learn fast when you fight a mob that can rip you apart if your not careful. Players are taking the easy safe way to level.

May I ask how heroic it is to have 18 players attack 1 easy pray mob?

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Originally Posted by Lynchilles

I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say I really wish you would stop posting since you are so narrow-minded and constantly abuse inferential logic.

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Funny thing is, even though I haven't posted for awhile I can safely say Rosina is the least narrow-minded person here when it comes to this game, especially current state. Maybe over on Cerberus it's different...but honestly? There's more narrow minded people now than there ever were in this game.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

scaevola

Well before the wiki bible days. Yes this was true. Players had to learn job AS they played. There is more to the game then mindless zerging of mobs. Players had to actually work together, time their skills right or a wipe would happen.

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This is not even remotely true.

For instance, did you know that Boost has a not-insubstantial threat component (we would learn years later, thanks to Kaeko, that it's 300 VE, and of course an XP mob is going to die long before anybody caps enmity), so it was much, much better for a low-level (like, pre-60ish, I'd say) tanking WAR to sub MNK than NIN?

No?

I'm not surprised, because nobody ever had to learn this or anything else to get XP! Is your healer capable of curing for more than the mob is capable of hitting for (he is)? Do you have a RDM or BRD for mp recovery? Does at least one person in the group have a rough understanding of what abilities they have that get a lot of threat? If so, congratulations! You can ride this level of knowledge to 75, when players in games like WoW need to surpass it as early as their second dungeon!

EDIT: I phrased this poorly. We were, on average, much, much worse at the game then than we are now, because we spent so much more of our playtime on content we did not have to be good to complete.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

You don't have to spend ten years playing every MMO under the sun to know that sitting in jeuno with your flag up for weeks on end isn't fun.

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I never once sat in Jeuno with my flag up for weeks. Unlike most people who played XI, I was actually proactive, funny how you progress through a game by not sitting on your ass, no?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Maybe over on Cerberus it's different...but honestly? There's more narrow minded people now than there ever were in this game.

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I don't know if you're intentionally trying to be funny, or if you just don't realize the inherent contradiction in your statements.

Like every other thread Rosina posts in, this thread has become a complete waste of time.

I don't think they will ever add the opposite gender for mithra or gulka. Mithra mainly dealing with the past story line some what and gulka...well I don't know their excuse on that call. Maybe a rep could clear that bit of detail up for us.

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Originally Posted by Twille

Like every other thread Rosina posts in, this thread has become a complete waste of time.

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To be fair, this has at least stayed vaguely on-topic.

The only stupid thing about pageburning and such is how easy it is to afk leech. But then again, that's true for any alliance-size exp group that's killing easy prey mobs.

Call me old fashioned, but I really think you should have to do something in order to get exp, not just join a group, go watch TV, then come back capped out.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I never once sat in Jeuno with my flag up for weeks. Unlike most people who played XI, I was actually proactive, funny how you progress through a game by not sitting on your ass, no?

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So you went out and soloed and did quests and crafted instead? just like you can now? Well then I guess everything is fine. No need to request a change to the exp. system that causes a negative effect on everyone else then huh? kthxbye.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Oh, my bad. You quit the game because it was too awesome for you. Got it.

EDIT: I find it odd that you feel attacked, when you are essentially calling the entire group of people who play this game lazy.

You guys come in here and go "I think everyone who plays this game is lazy. Please force them to work harder for my amusement."

and then you feel attacked? interesting.

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When you expect to get something for nothing? Well, you said it, not I.

Your all arguing about something stupid and pointless, why not drop it? You very rarely get something for nothing, if you are, then everyone in the party is to blame.