ATTN DEVS: Attaining Mythic Weapons Needs To Be Reconfigured

Im sure a new breed of weapons will arise with the expansion RNF doesnt look like any normal sword, and bells aren't really a weapon class we can pick as well, besides those event ones, so with any luck hopefully waiting for this expansion to come will change the game a bit, or will turn out to be nothing special and insanely hard to obtain anything new or alone like previous expansions have shown us thru history.

Before Expansion: "Maybe this expansion will change everything!" . . . After Expansion hits: "OMG these zones are so COOL and everything is so AWESOME!" Hours later when all your friends log off and everyone you know: "Ummmm so....lets see if I can kill this by myself......anyone online? I need a raise..." (Back then people cared about getting K.O'd losing exp stunk)

Ah what the hell, I hope this expansion changes everything!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Only if the price will drop, people won't do it anymore. It needs to be comparable to Dynamis in terms of making money for people to actually do it. If the price drops, that is no longer the case and people won't do it to sell anymore, but only to keep. Hence, it will hurt the amount of Alex in circulation.

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The price isn't going to change much, I shouldn't think... price drops = more people willing to buy them instead of just soloing their own = price rise = more people doing salvage to sell alex = price drop etc. etc. etc. eventually it'll find a niche price and stay there.

Edit: not to mention, people might actually want to do salvage for new gear^^

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

The price isn't going to change much, I shouldn't think... price drops = more people willing to buy them instead of just soloing their own = price rise = more people doing salvage to sell alex = price drop etc. etc. etc. eventually it'll find a niche price and stay there.

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This would hold somewhat true if there was a constant demand for it. But there's not enough people even trying to build a mythic, and a majority of the ones who do are not willing to pay anything near the amount required to make the event profitable for people farming to sell. Reducing the requirements would actually achieve that. It would, in fact, motivate even more people to actually build them, because even if the Alex price stays the same the total price would still go down. This solution won't help, because if the Alex price drops, people won't farm them anymore and supply will stall. But if the price goes up again, more people will stop building their mythics, because currently they cost up to 600M, and almost no one is willing to pay that price.

Really getting tired of the devs saying that they are aware of the issue, don't worry, X event will fix the problem. Nyzul didn't fix the problem; it made it worse. How hard is it, seriously, to sit down for 5 minutes, and increase the drop rate in salvage. That's all you have to do. All you have to do is increase the drop rate in salvage . . . increase the drop rate in salvage . . . in salvage. Stop deferring this issue again and again while it gets worse and worse. This should have been fixed six months ago.

How about the devs make it so we don't need an entire server farming up items just to make ONE weapon.

Id be happy with a in game mini map :( oh so happy

That was random.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Happy Monday everyone!

We have still been seeing quite a few requests for increased Alexandrite circulation to help facilitate players’ journey towards their mythic weapons.

While Alexandrite can now be obtained in Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey, circulation is increasing, but the volume is not quite there yet. One reason for this is that Salvage activity is much lower now than it was previously. However, as we will be expanding Salvage and revamping it later this year, we will the amount of Alexandrite in circulation should see a steady increase, so we’d like to ask you all to give us some time until then. Once this is implemented we would like to hear any feedback you have in regards to the amount of Alexandrite in circulation.

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Then I would suggest fixing order lamps in neo nyzle. Once you patch that dat swap "bug", no one will clear neo nyzle and supply will spike down again.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

if the Alex price drops, people won't farm them anymore and supply will stall. But if the price goes up again, more people will stop building their mythics, because currently they cost up to 600M, and almost no one is willing to pay that price.

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If you can 2-box SSR, your total take will be comparable to a Dynamis run. The issue is of course, now you need 2 characters to play and a 3rd to help get you in. I think this is the largest obstacle to getting people to farm Salvage for gil. And if you have to split the alex it immediately loses its appeal.

Another issue is that only one of the zones is consistently profitable (SSR) and everybody would want to farm it. So while people have suggested removing the 3 person requirement to enter, there would then be competition for that single zone. I've read that you can only have 3 Salvage/Nyzul instances at a given time, which may or may not be accurate.

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Originally Posted by detlef

If you can 2-box SSR, your total take will be comparable to a Dynamis run. The issue is of course, now you need 2 characters to play and a 3rd to help get you in. I think this is the largest obstacle to getting people to farm Salvage for gil. And if you have to split the alex it immediately loses its appeal.

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And that's my point. Right now it's worth farming. But if the price of Alex drops it won't be anymore, especially not if you have to split it. Hence less people will actually farm them and supply will drop. And don't kid yourself if you think new Salvage will put out more than 100 Alex per run per person (my current average in SSR).

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Originally Posted by detlef

I've read that you can only have 3 Salvage/Nyzul instances at a given time, which may or may not be accurate.

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That statement would be hard to disprove, and I have no hard information either way, but nothing I currently know supports that theory.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

And that's my point. Right now it's worth farming. But if the price of Alex drops it won't be anymore, especially not if you have to split it. Hence less people will actually farm them and supply will drop. And don't kid yourself if you think new Salvage will put out more than 100 Alex per run per person (my current average in SSR).

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Dude I'm not getting what you're saying. If it's more accessible and the price goes down, more people are going to want mythics. And, like the dyna revamp, currency will fly off the shelves. I farm dyna knowing within 2 minutes of being back in Jeuno I'll already have sold them all. People will farm Alexandrite (if Salvage is made daily and soloable) knowing it will actually sell.

Having made a Mythic (Tizona), I can attest to what a pain in the ass obtaining one is. I was lucky that I caught the tail end of people doing Salvage right as Abyssea picked and and no one wanted level 75 content. Alexandrite were only 3-4k each then, and I still had a difficult time finding them (I lucked out, found someone who gave up trying to get one and sold me 9000). Now they're 15-20k each, and there still isn't a great quantity out there, despite Neo-Nyzul.

Overall, they are the most difficult to obtain, and are disproportionate compared to relics and empys. Based on the data from the 10th (2012) Vana'diel census, there are (for all levels, and excluding the gimped WoE empys):
Empyrean: 89208
Relic: 16568
Mythic: 578

SE already lowered the number from 50,000 to 30,000. Given the other ridiculous requirements (repeating all 50 assaults, 150,000 Nyzul tokens, 100,000 Therion Ichor), lowering the amount needed is a option, on top of increasing circulation of Alexandrite.

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Originally Posted by Helyos

If it's more accessible and the price goes down, more people are going to want mythics.

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If the price goes down it won't be worth farming and supply will drop heavily while demand increases. Hence, almost no one will be able to buy them at all and most people will have to farm them themselves. Which should be easier, if what they say about new Salvage is true, but it would still hurt the market for it. And honestly, I don't even believe what they're saying. Think about it, they wanna release a new event, which means it'll be aimed at 90+. Meaning the probability of you being able to solo it is unlikely. So even if you do get 300 Alex per run in the new Salvage, you'll still need to split it with several people and effectively make less than you already do now. Unless they up the Alex yield up to 600 or something, then I could see it being a possible solution, but I doubt that very much.

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Originally Posted by Helyos

And, like the dyna revamp, currency will fly off the shelves.

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Very big difference. After the Dynamis revamp it was not only easier to farm currency but more importantly you could farm more of it. That is not currently the case with Salvage. Currently you can't farm more Alex per run than you could at 75. And it doesn't scale either. If you farm Dynamis with three people you can get almost three times as much (even more if you play efficiently). That's not the case here. If you trio Salvage you can clear it faster, but the amount you obtain is still the same. You just have to split it with more people.

And the reason for that is that Salvage is a dungeon and has progression. Dynamis is actually designed to be farming ground. And unless they design the new Salvage with farming in mind (i.e. make mobs repop, large open areas, longer time limit, no different floors, etc.), which I really doubt, it will never compare. It won't fix the problem.

The best thing they could do would be to a) reduce the requirements from 30k to 10k and b) remove the minimum person entry limit. That alone would fix mythics big time. You could build them solo farming for ~4 months or buy them at current prices for a total of under 200M (instead of the current up to 600M), which would compare to relics. And with less Alexandrite required, the market would allow for more people to go after a weapon as well, because the buyer's market wouldn't be quite as competitive (or rather, not as long-lived for each single buyer).

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Originally Posted by Arcon

If the price goes down it won't be worth farming and supply will drop heavily while demand increases. Hence, almost no one will be able to buy them at all and most people will have to farm them themselves.

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The demand for alexandrites is off the scale. The supply is a trickle. If anyone sells considerably below the average, their alex will be swooped up quickly and resold for the 'proper' price before anyone's the wiser. Droprates and prices will stay balanced. If SE changes droprates by 100% and improves salvage accesibility, alex price drops by only 25% due to increase in demand.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

The demand for alexandrites is off the scale. The supply is a trickle.

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I can only speak for my server, where that statement is blatantly false (at any given time there are more than thousand Alex in bazaars and price has fallen already), but it doesn't really matter anyway. There's two kinds of demands, the one that affects the market and the one that affects only the person. The latter is for the people who wanna farm their own Alexandrite, because the price is off the hook, and that's precisely why most people don't even bother starting one.

If the price doesn't fall much, why would the demand increase? I think you have it backwards. Demand is determined after theprice. The supply does not affect the demand directly. The price does. Increase in supply leads to a decrease in price. However, if you say that the price won't fall much the demand won't go up much. The weapons don't get any better just because the supply increases, so that alone is not an incentive. When people are faced with the decision of making a mythic several questions spring to mind but the most decisive one is the price, because right now it's at 600M. If someone would go for it for 450M they'd also go for it for 600M so I don't see where the extra demand comes from. The only way the price wouldn't be affected much by it is if the new Salvage actually does put out more than the current one, which is ~80 per person which I doubt.

Also, a 25% in price is still quite a bit. That will put Salvage a good bit behind Dynamis in farming it for money. And that's still assuming you actually don't have to split the rewards, which does not apply to everyone. The only people who won't be affected by this all that much are the people farming both, but that takes a good 4h out of your day and I don't think that applies to many people either.

Eh while we are on the subject i think originally alex drop rates were lower because you could do salvage once per day (twice if you bought your permit before jp mid) so as long as you did it every day it could generate more currency over time then old dyna, that advantage is obsolete furthermore considering 1 mythic requires nearly 2x the currency of a relic (forget if the 17k/18k is after the refund or before) or at least a bit more than 50% greater requirement.

Compared to NeoDyna i know a few peeps that solo 200 currency consistently, 250-300(on a good run) considering that you likely are not soloing salvage either, that further halves personal gain (is 80 an acceptable average take for 1 person? idk dont do salvage atm) either way untill corrected i will assume 80, so not only do you have to acquire over 50% more alex but you acquire it at nearly 50% the rate of soloing dynamis.

Mythic acquisition is in my opinion one of the more flawed concepts the dev team has come out with, least the way i remember it being announced as being the casual's weapon, easier to get but required more questing, any one know how long it'd take to get the 100k nyzul tokens assuming a group of 6 with just enough tokens to buy floor 100 entry each? (rotating who buys in each time) not to mention their original concept of 50k alex.

At least with the most recent einherjar adjustment getting ampules is one hell of a bit easier especially if you're going with a large group and splitting the costs (taking turns buying in)

Also got to remember the ZNM pre adjustment between the old zenni acquisition rate, tiered progression, and the biggest slap was that the tier IV trophies were not 100%, never mind if your group had any interest in PW.

To top it off requiring basically to make captain 2x most people list the fact that you have to redo the assaults, but many peeps never did all them in the first place although you have to make captain just to start the mythic quest that's a min of 100 days. Also remember in the mean time your tags are competing with nyzul as you acquire tokens, never mind NNI as well (these really need a separate tag/traverse stone type system)

Mind you, the ability to do each of these events in one day and chip away at the progress bit by bit is there but thats one hell of a full day (minus nyzul/assualt tag share limitations).

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here, glad to see a lot less of the it's perfect cause only the Elite can get it type responses. I am still of a mind that the Alex is a huge part but that the whole process needs revamping. The quests are fine but the Ichor, Tokens, and Alex requirements need to be chopped in addition to increasing the amount of each that you get. And I was thinking what about the people who already built one of these fine weapons at full price? Well that should be easy they should be able to trade their completed Mythic to a NPC that will refund them the difference in Alex from what they used. Maybe even credit them the difference in Ichor and Tokens as well, which will put them back on the road to making a new mythic if they want too. I still say there is no way making a weapon on any game should take 2-3 years. Especially if they are trying to appeal to the casual player who still wants to be able to do anything.

Tokens aren't too bad though. With a couple of DDS you can easily find yourself getting 5k tokens per run (old Nyzul). That puts you at 30 runs, compared to 50 assaults which people seem to grudgingly accept. So roughly 3 months to take care of those two requirements.

Ampoules still suck though. If you do Odin every other run, you're barely coming out ahead in amps. Or you'd have to buy feathers somehow. If you did the usual T1/T2/T3 > Odin it would take you 28 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Happy Monday everyone!

We have still been seeing quite a few requests for increased Alexandrite circulation to help facilitate players’ journey towards their mythic weapons.

While Alexandrite can now be obtained in Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey, circulation is increasing, but the volume is not quite there yet. One reason for this is that Salvage activity is much lower now than it was previously. However, as we will be expanding Salvage and revamping it later this year, the amount of Alexandrite in circulation should see a steady increase, so we’d like to ask you all to give us some time until then. Once this is implemented we would like to hear any feedback you have in regards to the amount of Alexandrite in circulation.

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I have never seen this mentioned, but I think more people would be willing to farm salvage for alexandrite if you made it more enjoyable by adjusting the inventory issues the 'cells' that remove the pathos (equipment, subjob locked, etc) cause by currently not being stackable.

Having to constantly pass/toss cells you or your party members no longer need quickly becomes tedious by the time you get to the 2nd floor and are killing large quantities of monsters. Making cells stackable *to 99 in quantity* would alleviate the tedium of having to pass cells since they would autosort+stack so players have room for the loot items they want such as single alexandrites/alex purses.

I for one appreciate the time it takes to gather 30,000 alexandrites. While it may be near impossible I think it's an awesome way to define yourself from the other person. I love the exclusiveness factor. Suck it casuals.

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Originally Posted by Meldity

I for one appreciate the time it takes to gather 30,000 alexandrites. While it may be near impossible I think it's an awesome way to define yourself from the other person. I love the exclusiveness factor. Suck it casuals.

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You should be nicer to the people who subsidize your game experience. FFXI wouldn't be here with "hardcores" alone.

Folks at SE do realize that it's been rather common for people to go cross-server to obtain Alexandrite, right? Isn't that a pretty telling sign that something is broke with the system? Is that "working as intended?" Of course I guess that's not a problem since it makes SE money right?

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You should be nicer to the people who subsidize your game experience. FFXI wouldn't be here with "hardcores" alone.

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It's about time someone got this.

Make all of ToAU solo entry... enough said.

P.S. not sure if its been said yet.

Yeah, cuz being level 99made it soooooooo much harder.....wtf is it about sharing that is sooooooooooo difficult? Think about it, people "teamed" up to do this before, at...level.....75..... Now 24 levels later, its easier, not harder, and people just dont want to team up to get it done because they'd have to share.... And that is the way the cooki crumbles...

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

Think about it, people "teamed" up to do this before, at...level.....75..... Now 24 levels later, its easier, not harder, and people just dont want to team up to get it done because they'd have to share....

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Naturally. What else? It requires less people, so of course it should allow less people. How does that not make sense?

/Facepalm.....

It does make sense, actually.

Your "cookie crumbles" is blind to the fact that 19 servers collapsed do to lack of progress and boredom and a few less responsible factors. People should not have to beg and bribe people who do not want to help others, A exiled CEO and a 19 server collapse is proof of that. SE recognizes that elitism runs rampant and has spoon feed whats left of us countless necessary adjustments to counter the problem. This is not an echo chamber for a failed delusional black hole ideas.

Lol, yeah.....putting porn in seseme street can only keep the kiddies watching for so long after they hit 28, ..... Maybe some just out grew seseme street? Porn or not. (It's an analogy, you figure it out), yet we are still here, they must've done something right.

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Originally Posted by THD

Overall, they are the most difficult to obtain, and are disproportionate compared to relics and empys. Based on the data from the 10th (2012) Vana'diel census, there are (for all levels, and excluding the gimped WoE empys):
Empyrean: 89208
Relic: 16568
Mythic: 578

SE already lowered the number from 50,000 to 30,000. Given the other ridiculous requirements (repeating all 50 assaults, 150,000 Nyzul tokens, 100,000 Therion Ichor), lowering the amount needed is a option, on top of increasing circulation of Alexandrite.

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While i don't disagree with the op the way people are using the census no.s is wrong i mean there are
32 Relic Staffs
135 Mythic swords
So that means Relic staff is harder to make than a mythic sword by that logic.

Cost wise on my server 500mil would make a 99mythic and 180mil for a 99 relic so the gil cost is 3x more

So basically a Mythic is 4 X harder + 50 Assusalts you need to do + Ich/Tokens/Stuff u havn't done yet
So it's 5-10X harder (not 100 X harder)

The reason there are more Relics than Mythics is simple it's this question.
Do you want 5-10 99 relics/Emps or 1 99 mythic ?

500m for alex and scoria vs. 180m for currency and marrows is about 3x. The effort required to acquire the ampoules, tokens, and assaults clears is probably equivalent to a level 99 relic (maybe less). So you're looking at a mythic being 4x the cost of a relic.

They also need to introduce better methods in accessing assaults more readily. Although I think they mentioned not increasing stock of tags because of nyzul isle but, what about assault missions as a whole? That needs to be taken into consideration as a whole in general and not just for nyzul isle. If they can't then they should introduce new methods to be able to obtain new assault tags like they did with voiddusts to voidstones. We're at level 99 cap now so the progress with the assault missions needs to be looked at and adjusted and not nerfed. Now, looking at new Dynamis, the progress towards obtaining relics were increased significantly.

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Originally Posted by deces

Your "cookie crumbles" is blind to the fact that 19 servers collapsed do to lack of progress and boredom and a few less responsible factors. People should not have to beg and bribe people who do not want to help others, A exiled CEO and a 19 server collapse is proof of that. SE recognizes that elitism runs rampant and has spoon feed whats left of us countless necessary adjustments to counter the problem. This is not an echo chamber for a failed delusional black hole ideas.

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Lol do you honestly think 19 servers are gone just because Mythic is unobtainable?

The reason why population decrease is because:

1. Time passed: for any MMO, after 10 years of release, the active player will drop no matter what. A 10 years old MMO isn't going to get new player(unless they do major overhaul such as FFXIV Realm Reborn), when old player leaves the population dropped, and game company has to server merge.

2. Lack of resource: When a MMO is 10 years old, and not a lot of active players, game company won't put that much resource on new expansion etc. You're not going to see a 200 ppl team work on FFXI 2.0 with brand new game engine/story and some sort.
Without large amount of total new content, old players leaves and new player also won't come.


Server merge is inevitable for any MMO, MMO active subscribers bound to decrease, no matter what(FFXIV 2.0 may be exception due to sheer amount of resource they used to "save" it), it's certainly not because Mythic is not obtainable.

I mean, seriously, there are only a few Mythic that has a use. BLU, PUP, DRG, BLM, SMN, SAM, WHM, PLD, maybe BST. And out of all those Mythic that has a use, only KKK and polearm are truely job changing, everything else makes very little difference and not even worth the effort.

You honestly think 19 server worth of player quit just because they can't get KKK for their PUP or Rynohige for their DRG? Even if SE going to hand Mythic to every player in their Dbox, server merge is still inevitable. Not be able to obtain items(mythic) that makes very little difference in terms of performance for majority of jobs isn't going to make 19 server worth of player quit.

P.S, Server merge happened during Abyssea era also, when Empy outperforms relic/Mythic in every way and everyone and their mother have one/almost done with one. Majority of players have empy during Abby era, and yet server still merged, proved that population decrease has nothing to do with players can't get Mythic.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

If the price goes down it won't be worth farming and supply will drop heavily while demand increases.

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So supply will drop, demand will increase, but prices won't increase to a level where it's worth farming? Sounds strange to me.

If the supply was lower than today and the demand was higher, how would that possibly not increase the price of alexandrite relative to what it is today?

Relics cost less because one can solo Dynamis now, I remember the days where these prices were flipped Alex was 8k and AC was 11-16k depending on the coinage, granted that was YEARS ago. I don't know many people that run more than 2 people groups for dyna, or more than 4 max 6 for making empy weapons. So it would make sense for SE to lower the entrance req to 1 player if someone wanted to farm salvages, or do solo assaults.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Happy Monday everyone!

We have still been seeing quite a few requests for increased Alexandrite circulation to help facilitate players’ journey towards their mythic weapons.

While Alexandrite can now be obtained in Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey, circulation is increasing, but the volume is not quite there yet. One reason for this is that Salvage activity is much lower now than it was previously. However, as we will be expanding Salvage and revamping it later this year, the amount of Alexandrite in circulation should see a steady increase, so we’d like to ask you all to give us some time until then. Once this is implemented we would like to hear any feedback you have in regards to the amount of Alexandrite in circulation.

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The amount of Alexandrite in circulation was never the issue, it is the amount required to get one, see:

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

I love back in 2006 when they said Mythics would be the casual-player's alternative to Relic weapons.

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30000 was ALWAYS too much to fit ^ that concept.

With what i see from medel plates floating around is this the real order of difficulty to obtain a 99 weapon?:
Easy > hard
Relic>emp> mythic

and 99 afterglow anything is just obnoxious. Why that is even in the game is beyond my comprehensions so much so that is harder to get that then a relic in 2003-2004. Making everything easier then throwing that in the mix is..... can't even find a word for that.