You can find that in pretty much any videogame and anime story cast, they are called stereotypes. Check out tvtropes lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
Can we have a thread that ISNT a suggestion?
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03-17-2011, 09:17 AMKjara
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03-17-2011, 09:18 AMVivik
I suggest we make suggestions to suggest that suggestions are bad.
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03-17-2011, 09:21 AMJalserba_Darkwood
when it come to ffX-2 the bit the rly anouyd me was the yrp crap at the start where they sudenly feel the urg in mids of a situation to do a charlies angels.
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03-17-2011, 09:23 AMTearValerinI already did >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjara
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03-17-2011, 09:25 AMsvengalis
The irony of this topic title. LOL
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03-17-2011, 09:28 AMJalserba_Darkwoodwhat would a forum b without irony? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by svengalis
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03-17-2011, 09:40 AMDaleSquall didn't stay a brooding protagonist. He is one of the only - if not the only - main character in any FF series who was actually affected by the world-changing events going on around him and matured and found the confidence to be a more well-rounded leader actually interested in the feelings of others around him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
Spunky Ditz? If you mean the girl in yellow, I didn't like her.
White mage Girl? If you are referring to Rinoa, she was hardly the typical white mage female on a game, and you could equip her with w/e magic you wanted - so if you made her a white mage, that was entirely your choice.
Chivarlous pervert? I assume you mean the cowboy guy, i didn't like him either so i'm not going to defend him.
Dumb tough guy with a soft side? If you mean zell i take offense at that. He was my favorite character, and he wasn't dumb at all. How dare you :)
I don't see why any of those plot twists you named were convienent. They knew each other from the orphanage, they grew up together. Once their amnesia sickness began to wear off that's how they all knew each other. I don't know what's stupid about that. They were orphans recruited into the ranks of Seed.
Rinoa's feelings for sifer most likely wore off cause she met squall. Duh :) I don't remember much about the icicle. It has been awhile, but i'm sure his friends probably nursed him back to health. Sifer was seduced by the power the sorcererss offered him if i remember correctly. I don't know what's stupid about that. That's what made FF8 so great. A lot of the characters were realistic, not boring goody two-shoe characters who always did the right thing.
I liked the draw magic. It gave finding new enemies a new game-play element i found quite enjoyable, and i loved how you could equip different magics to increase your stats and gain resistances to different effects. The fact monsters leveled up as you did didn't discourage me from leveling at all, in fact it encouraged me to because i could actually take me time and level without having to worry about destroying the rest of the game from a challenge perspective. You are talking to someone who actually maxed out Squall's level on Tyranasaurus Rex's in the first garden cutscene during the training exercise quistis sends you on lol
The only flaw was the bosses didnt' level up with you as well. This was a big mistake i admit - but pales in comparison with the game's numerous triumphs.
We just disagree. FF 8 was and still is one of the greatest games every created. -
03-17-2011, 10:11 AMTearValerinI'm just going to take this in random order, don't mind me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
1. Wound from disc one icicle which impales Squall. Our hero wakes up in the Galbadian prison and says:
‘(...Where am I? I...challenged Edea... My wound...? No wound...? How...? The Galbadian soldiers... ...We were surrounded. He was there... Seifer, leering down at me.) "Damn you, Seifer!"’
Never, anywhere else, is this ever mentioned or addressed. Which brings up conspiracy theories about people thinking Squall is really living a dream from disc 2 on out, but thats another story. Still a plot hole.
2. Rinoa's feelings for Seifer. Remember the ballroom scene? Rinoa didnt want to dance with Squall, she didn't even care who he was. I quote:
Squall: “...I can't dance.”
Rinoa: “You'll be fine. Come on. I'm looking for someone. I can't be on the dance floor alone.”
She just wanted to put up appreances. Then there is the first seed mission:
Rinoa: "Hey... You're...! You know, from the party... So...does that mean... You're a SeeD!?"
Squall: "I'm Squall, the squad leader. There's two others with me."
Rinoa: "YEEESSSS! SeeD is here!"
She doesn't care Squall is there, just that seed is. Seifer was in seed, Seifer is the one she cares for, not Squall.
Rinoa: "Ok, let's go! Umm, Squall. Is 'he' here?"
Squall: ('He'?)
Rinoa: "Seifer."
Squall: "...... No, he's not a SeeD."
Then there are the events at Timber, where she openly lets out her feeling for Seifer.
Rinoa: "I...really liked him. He was always full of confidence, smart... Just by talking to him, I felt like I could take on the world."
Selphie: "Your boyfriend?"
Rinoa: "I don't really know. I... I think it was love. I wonder how he felt...?"
Selphie: "Do you still like him?"
Rinoa: "If I didn't, I wouldn't be talking about it. It was last summer... I was 16. Lots of fond memories..."
Squall may have had feelings for Rinoa, but obviously they were not mutual, until *back to the conspiracy* he wakes up from the start of disc 2 and the world starts to go his way. Seifer is the bad guy, Rinoa suddenly loves him, etc etc.
3. Seifer suddenly becoming bad, it tied in with the above theory, but when you think about it, the only hint at this we get is that Seifer idolized Laguna, to the point he emulated his fighting style, and gave him the dream to be a sorceress knight. However the game does not venture into any depth onto how or why he became Edea's. It just 'happened.' When the party gets to Deiling City, after Seifer is presumed to be dead after his arrest, they find him and state:
Squall: "Rinoa. Seifer's alive. He was in the parade with the sorceress."
Rinoa: "...What does it mean?"
Squall: "Who knows." (If I were to face the sorceress directly... Would I have to go through Seifer? ...That's the way it goes as a SeeD. You can't choose your enemies...) "I may end up killing Seifer."
Rinoa: "You're both...prepared, right? That's the kind of world you live in. You've had a lot of emotional training. But... Of course, I'd rather it not happen..."
He's just there, and Neither of the see this as a relationship convenience, or threatened by it. It's as if Rinoa does not care for Squall whatsoever.
4. Lastly, the 'plot twists' just came out of left field, they were way too convenient and forced. Amnesia, LOLWEWENTSAMEORPHANAGE AND FORGOT, O IT HAPPEENED TO BE RUN BY SEED CREATOR AND THE BADGUY TOO. OHWAIT BUT SHES NOT RLY THE BADGUY, WE HAS SURPRISE BADGUY!!!! Surprise villians out of nowhere who have no influence on the plot til the last disc are choices in poor taste. I'm looking at you Ultimecia and Necron.
Speaking of Ultimecia, she says some pretty strange stuff before your final form fight.
Reflect on your... Childhood..."
"Your sensation... Your words... Your emotions..."
"Time... It will not wait..."
"No matter... ...how hard you hold on. It escapes you..."
As the credits roll, you see fading images of Rinoa, the one thing he cared about, starting to blur out, as his life is essentially flashing before his eyes. This is where conspiracy theorists believe he is waking up from a dream as the last faded image you see before the 'ending' takes place is him falling from where he was impaled, seeing Rinoa fade in the distance. Note as when Balamb starts to come into the scene, you see the guys fishing with Seifer, Zell eating hotdogs, Cid and Edea, etc. But no Squall... where is he? It makes me think that the whole coming of age mishmash we just played through only occured in Squalls mind as he fell to his death.
Anyways, I felt the game had a complex, existential depth to it, but the scripting and way they handled the plot made me think of it in terms of less quality than the other entries to the series. -
03-17-2011, 01:03 PMJagerForrester
To suggest in a thread to not stop making so many suggestion threads, this thread would have never been decided to be posted. In fact, if there are too many suggestion threads, you would need more non-suggestion threads. Then people would notice there's not enough suggestion threads to suggestions in non-suggestion threads that needs to be the suggested. Therefore the suggestion threads will repopulate with even more suggestions that will ultimately be a lot of threads, only to find that someone is going to make another suggestion thread that suggests to stop making threads.
FF9 -
03-17-2011, 05:19 PMUltraBlackone
Quick question to everyone: Anyone else here watch The Spoony Experiment? He made some great points as to why he dislikes certain Final Fantasy games and he's, in my mind, one of the funniest online personalities out there. For anyone who hasn't seen his reviews I'm posting some links. Watch, enjoy, and remember that it's all in good fun.
FF8 Spoony reviews: http://spoonyexperiment.com/category...-fantasy-viii/
FF10 Spoony reiews: http://spoonyexperiment.com/category...nal-fantasy-x/ -
03-17-2011, 05:28 PMMacromSeconded, FF has been my favorite. I remember Getting the Nintendo Power Strat Guide for FFIII. Welcome back 1980sQuote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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03-17-2011, 06:27 PMNiklzQuote:
Originally Posted by UltraBlackone
I don't like watching angry videogame reviewers, but I LOL'd in the literal sense when I saw he named Tidus, Meg Ryan. -
03-17-2011, 07:07 PMWade
Final Fantasy 7 was the first Final Fantasy game I played, but my favorite is Final Fantasy 8. I loved the storyline. I have to admit though, that Final Fantasy XI has become number 2, just based on how long I have been playing it :D
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03-17-2011, 07:30 PMSeha
FFIX and FFVI <3. (and XI of course xD)
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03-18-2011, 07:12 AMDaleOk few things i'll say. 1. Rinoa was just playing hard to get. I dont' know if you are male or female, but any male who has any experience, and i'm talking even gradeschool experience with women can tell you they love to act like they don't like guys when they really do. It's part of their genetic coding that makes them love to screw with the male brain - so you are proving nothing with your points except that it was a realistic portrayal of how women behave.Quote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
2. I really don't understand why you have such a problem with the fact they all knew each other because they grew up in the orphanage togther. And Ultimecia didn't just show up out of no where, she was in the story from almost the beginning - you just didn't know her true identity till toward the end. So stop acting like she was just a sudden villainous character thrusted into the plot at the very end. It wasn't like that. FF10 did that, but not FF8. The sorceress was heavily involved in 8's plot from beginning to end, so your critical comments about this are what is really the mishmash, and not Squall's coming of age, which was beautifully done.
Also, Squall does show up at the end - looking all happy and actually smiled, which is something i don't believe he did on any of the cutscenes before that throughout the entire game, which in itself made it a touching ending.
The only accurate thing you stated in this post was this - "the game had a complex, existential depth to it". With that I can agree, so i'll end on a point of agreement :) -
03-18-2011, 07:35 AMTearValerinBut she wasn't playing hard to get, she was openly in love with Seifer. It's right there in the quotes. I THINK IT WAS LOVE, doesn't mean, I really love you Squall, its a chat between girls about the guy she really likes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
And the orphanage was a sad, forced excuse for a plot twist. It was placed in there for no other reason than convenience, and it wasn't very subtle about it. Ultemecia too was a forced, out of nowhere villian as well. If you remember in FF9, where the plot made it out Kuja was the villian, trying to work against the fate Garland set out for him, then out of left field comes Necron! No mention in the plot, no hidden identity, he was just there. Ultimecia takes that turn as well. Please do not debate with me, if you aren't going to put up a legitimate defense :|. -
03-18-2011, 07:51 AMDalelol... well there isn't much to defend against. You are claming Ultimecia was just taken out of left field at the very end of the game as a surprise villain when she wasn't. She was in the story from almost the beginning, clearly visible and manipulating events. The fact you didn't learn her true name or origins till the end doesn't change this fact. You are just wrong, there isn't much i can do other than to state the simple facts, so i'm not sure what you are expecting out of me lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
We just disagree about Rinoa. I think she was just playing hard to get, you don't. But doesn't matter, emotions are very fickle things anyway, especially with females lol I really don't think any explaination is even needed on this part of the story.
Now far as the orphanage, I thought it was cool how they were recruited as orphans into Seed, and it explained perfectly how they all knew each other. You feel differently. But these are just two abstract opinions based more on preference than any facts. There isn't much to defend here, just to say i liked it, and you didn't. -
03-18-2011, 08:01 AMTearValerinYou cant just place a blanket statement saying she 'was there in the story clearly' without proof. It is not a fact unless you have solid evidence backing up your claim, and to state someone is 'wrong' just because you say so is not good enough, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Rinoa is not subjective either, it was plain as day she was into Seifer, and not Squall from the day they met, proof in the quotes.
Orphanage, that is subjective, one can find it a weak plothole, others can find it cool. There is plenty to defend, but if you cannot do so, there is no debate. -
03-18-2011, 08:08 AMDaleQuote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
The sorceress was all over the plot from the beginning, just plug in the game. Some facts are so obvious they shouldn't need to be pointed out in specifics, and that is one of them. YOu even pointed out the sorceress showed up and turned sifer to her side - now how could she do that if she dind't show up till the very end?
There is no reason for me to defend myself, you do it for me with your own contradictions.
Now far as the orphanage thing, you thought it was lame i thought it was cool. You aren't really "wrong" on that point, we just disagree. It's the sorceress not showing up until the end of the game thing you are actually wrong about. The other stuff are valid disagreements, and i can live with those :) -
03-18-2011, 08:11 AMZyeriis
I don't want to discuss things ;-; cause I'm always right /sarcasm
Favorite FF aside from FFXI would have to be 13. Least favorite (disregarding X-2, I don't even consider that one a true Final Fantasy game) would have to be 7 (I just could NOT force myself to play through it, only one I never finished). The only thing I hated about 13 was Hope...
Second favorite would have to be the real Final Fantasy 3 (not the American one that was actually #4).
Total opposite of the final fantasy fan spectrum, right? -
03-18-2011, 08:12 AMDalehm, interesting, i was always under the impression Final Fantasy 3 in America was Final Fantasy 6 in Japan, not 4Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
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03-18-2011, 08:13 AMTearValerinI did not ever do such a thing. You can't even prove your point so you resort to making junk up? I said Seifer got his dream to become a sorceress knight based on watching Laguna, and wanting to be just like him. How or why he joined Edea is never explained, nor does it have anything to do with Ultimecia. There are no contradictions here, just someone who has no basis to support his claims making a peacocked defense out of nothing. You cannot say someone is wrong because you say so, the burden of proof lies within you if you are going to make wild claims with nothing to back it up.Quote:
The sorceress was all over the plot from the beginning, just plug in the game. Some facts are so obvious they shouldn't need to be pointed out in specifics, and that is one of them. YOu even pointed out the sorceress showed up and turned sifer to her side - now how could she do that if she dind't show up till the very end?
'its in the game, go look' Socratic method doesn't work here buddy. Either prove your argument or don't argue. -
03-18-2011, 08:19 AMDalewhat? lol...look um "buddy" there is no Socratic method at play here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
You were complaining it made no sense that sifer went to join the sorceress, well if the sorceress didn't show up till the end of the game, then how on earth could sifer go join someone who wasn't in the game yet? If you can't understand that simple logic, thats a problem on your end not mine, and has nothign to do with socrates lol
But that's only one of many contridictions you have spouted. Let me say another: you were complaining about how squall's injuries dealt to him by the sorceress was never explained at the end of disc 1...omg, injuries deal to him by who?? COULD IT BE THE SORCERESS? But how could squall be attacked by the sorceress if she didn't show up until the end of the game?
you make no sense, think i'll end it at that lol -
03-18-2011, 08:24 AMTearValerinBecause Edea, Adel, Ultimecia, theyre all 3 different sorceresses. He joined Edea, not Ultimecia AFTER he was arrested and supposedly put to death. Tell me, how did Seifer magically get out of jail and escape the death penalty to suddenly become the bad guy?Quote:
You were complaining it made no sense that sifer went to join the sorceress, well if the sorceress didn't show up till the end of the game, then how on earth could sifer go join someone who wasn't in the game yet? If you can't understand that simple logic, thats a problem on your end not mine, and has nothign to do with socrates lol
You are either incredibly ignorant or incredibly blind. Edea shot him with an icicle at the end of disc one, not Ultimecia. TWO DIFFERENT SORCERESSES. Watch closely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtnnW...eature=relatedQuote:
But that's only one of many contridictions you have spouted. Let me say another: you were complaining about how squall's injuries dealt to him by the sorceress was never explained at the end of disc 1...omg, injuries deal to him by who?? COULD IT BE THE SORCERESS? But how could squall be attacked by the sorceress if she didn't show up until the end of the game?
EDEA, NOT UTLIMECIA. 2 different people. Is that hard to understand? REALLY that hard? That icicle impaled him through the chest and he has no wound at the start of disc 2 magically, and he questioned how when he wakes up in Galbadian prison.
Either you are totally ignorant, or just incredibly dull witted. -
03-18-2011, 08:25 AMZyeriisMy mistake, it was Final Fantasy II, in North America, that was actually #4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Edit: They then skipped V and made VI into the North America Final Fantasy III. Regardless, the true Final Fantasy III was extremely entertaining. -
03-18-2011, 09:04 AMDaleBlah blah blah, those who have to resort to pesonal attacks have already lost the debate, or so the saying goes, so think i'm done here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TearValerin
But I will have to point out to you that it was Ultimecia who was controlling the other sorceresses. While they were all under her evil manipulation they were all essentially Ultimecia. They weren't really all different sorceresses, they were all vessels being controlled by her, so Ultimecia was indeed involved in the game's plot from almost the very beginning, and it was indeed Ultimecia who turned sifer, not edea - who was actually very sweet and motherly and would have never done such a thing on her own :) -
03-18-2011, 09:05 AMDaleFF3 was good, no doubts. Locke is still one of my favorite FF characters, to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
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03-18-2011, 09:07 AMStarr
FFV is the best really, 9 is also better than 7 which is better than 8
10, 10-2, 13 and 14 are terribad games -
03-18-2011, 09:08 AMMiera
I suggest we stop making suggestion threads about suggesting matters in FFXI before i create a thread about how we need to stop complaining about complainers making complaint threads about people complaining too much.
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03-18-2011, 09:08 AMStarrThat's FF6Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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03-18-2011, 09:22 AMDaleIt was 3 when it was released in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Why are you responding to my posts Starr if you think i'm such a terrible person? Could it be you are trying to start a fight :) -
03-18-2011, 09:30 AMTearValerinThat is a crock of garbage, the only one shown to ever have been controlled against their will anywhere in the story was Rinoa. There were 3 different sorceresses outlined in the story, with Rinoa being next inline to become one. Im astonished how you can enjoy something you comprehend so little about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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03-18-2011, 09:32 AMStarrYes but that was because they did not release or have any plans to release 3, 4 and 5 in America, since they have announced them and that "FF3" was actually the 6th instalment then you should get with the times and call it 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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03-18-2011, 10:17 AMZyeriisHasn't this already been covered?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
They released IV (4) as II (2) in North America.
They released VI (6) as III (3) in North America.
For the sake of clarity: if you're refering to the North America #3 (which I was not), you are refering to #6. -
03-18-2011, 10:19 AMTsukino_KajiThey're already rereleased them in NA under their correct numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyeriis
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03-18-2011, 10:20 AMZyeriisThis as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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03-18-2011, 01:46 PMNu-HirSo what you're saying is that in Final Fantasy IV, it wasn't Golbez doing all of those horrible things, it was Zemus/Zeromus? No, it doesn't work that way. Ultimecia is just the next Square boss in a long line of them that WTFpwns you out of no where. In fact, it's a lot easier to name the games where the final boss isn't introduced in the last act of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Whether or not Ultimecia was controlling the other sorceresses throughout the entire game is moot. You don't know they were being controlled until the end, which is when they introduced her. Square has a huge problem with introducing end bosses, it seems, so they pull this crap a lot. Seriously, name five (of 15 main line Final Fantasy games) end bosses that weren't introduced in the final act of the game.
Back on topic though, Final Fantasy Tactics is my favorite, with Final Fantasy (the original NES) being a close second.