What's up with Max Level Monsters in Lower Level Areas?

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Originally Posted by Zerich

holy sockpuppets batman!

circumspection (sp) <<do you need it?>>

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Correcting level design that got screwed up when they added super high level mobs to a low level zone is a bad thing why exactly?

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Why on earth are you people so intent on defending SE's bad level design changes?

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I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

"Go to the Auction House and..." should never be a requirement for any mission.

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Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

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Then we're in agreement. The level design is borked and needs to be fixed. In the meantime there are workarounds, even if they are less than ideal.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Correcting level design that got screwed up when they added super high level mobs to a low level zone is a bad thing why exactly?

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no one agrees that the new placement of mobs is good. i for one just think it's SE's way of reassuring us that we will never be getting new areas. but for the record, there are so many other ways in-game, to get over this obstacle.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

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Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

to the OP and anyone else interested, I would like to point out my post from before this one as a rep has answered it here is the answer

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings everyone,

Wildsprite, thank you for pointing this out and we appreciate everyone's feedback on the relocation of high-level monsters in areas like Dangruf Wadi. We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

In regards to the positioning of these monsters, we would like to take a look at it so that players can avoid being attacked by high-level monsters without warning. As a first step, we feel it would be good to address this earlier by making certain aggressive monsters non-aggressive.

We will be sure to give an update as soon as we get word on the progress.

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and here is my thread, as they said they would update perhaps you should keep an eye on it http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post314070

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Originally Posted by Bulrogg

Oh my. :rolleyes:

If one wants to navigate the lands of Vana'diel they either need to level up or acquire meds to traverse safely. What does lore have to do with that? There are monsters you are trying to evade, that should be enough motivation.

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I generally don't comment about the stupidity of posts, I'd have 10 000+ posts if that was the case. But you sir have tipped the scale. Go back to when SE didn't get the bright idea of rejuvenating zones by adding books and monsters for higher level players to get 50~ xp per kill while doing pages (that aren't even rationally near each other). As a level 75 player I could run through these zones and not aggro, as a level 30 player I could run through these zones without aggro. The façade made from the dev's team sloth is no reason to defend their mistakes. I feel like making inflammatory comments towards your ethos but I'll avoid that. News flash, not everything SE does is correct, remapping monsters in zones and making high level monsters fit into low level zones was an example of a horrible idea spurred by their lack of imagination to make zones geared towards higher level players.

Sic, the OP is mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase, it feels to me, and im sure many other members that level 99 was an esthetic change rather than anything else. But since SE rather spend resources on other projects, no matter how asinine they are, we get this lame façade of FFXI that fan boys like you defend, it is tiring...

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Originally Posted by Juilan

Sic, the OP is mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase,

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

Seriously... Did my mission 1-x and ran into a level 83 monster in Horototto Ruins and am finding they added these monsters to areas all over.... WHY? How am I supposed to get my quests done when I can't find max level characters to help?

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

wanna give me the 30k a stack they are selling for?

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Juilan, I'm sorry but you're defending a person that I feel wants a handout and can't play an RPG effectivly to help themselves, left alone mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase. I'm not to sure if the OP is bright enough to know what you're talking about. Crying about taking off S/I and asking for Gil just gives me that impression.

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it feels to me, and im sure many other members that level 99 was an esthetic change rather than anything else. But since SE rather spend resources on other projects, no matter how asinine they are, we get this lame façade of FFXI that fan boys like you defend, it is tiring...

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So empowered, that Level 99 "Should" have came with new areas. Reminder you don't own your character, you're just renting it. If the company wants to change their vision, that is what their going to do. Can voice ideas and what not that doesn't mean said company has to do it. Of course I would like NEW AREAS, I would think most everyone that plays FFXI does as well, tbh why not it would give more life to the game. But all and all crying about sneak/invisible is not going to make new areas happen.

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Originally Posted by Krashport

Juilan, I'm sorry but you're defending a person that I feel wants a handout

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He was trying to make a point, similar to a point I tried to make almost a year ago. Lack of comprehension pervaded there, too.

At any rate...

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and can't play an RPG effectivly to help themselves

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How is one expected to "help themselves" when "helping themselves" requires the intervention of a high-level player?

You want a level ~20 to go skill alchemy. Getting the skill (and the ingredients for the meds in question) isn't realistic until level ~40 (not to mention the abominable timesink of skilling a craft in and of itself). Your only other suggestions boil down to "get assistance from someone else's high-level character" in one way or another.

Call that what you will, but "helping oneself" it is not. At best, it's "make yourself useful to someone else."

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

He was trying to make a point, similar to a point I tried to make almost a year ago. Lack of comprehension pervaded there, too.

At any rate...



How is one expected to "help themselves" when "helping themselves" requires the intervention of a high-level player?

You want a level ~20 to go skill alchemy. Getting the skill (and the ingredients for the meds in question) isn't realistic until level ~40 (not to mention the abominable timesink of skilling a craft in and of itself). Your only other suggestions boil down to "get assistance from someone else's high-level character" in one way or another.

Call that what you will, but "helping oneself" it is not. At best, it's "make yourself useful to someone else."

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I chose to ignore that guy because he feels the need to make me look like a moocher and like that makes my point Invalid. The fact of the matter is they told me to go buy that stuff and i pointed out that 30k a stack at low levels? yeah right not happening. I have never asked for anything for free since I started.

Yeah you can ask for high level help but that's my complaint. I don't want to have to ask someone who is max level for help. I would like to be able to handle the mission with people my level or by myself.

Did we seriously get all Burden of Knowledge on a new player? Damn...

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

... they told me to go buy that stuff and i pointed out that 30k a stack at low levels? yeah right not happening. I have never asked for anything for free since I started.

Yeah you can ask for high level help but that's my complaint. I don't want to have to ask someone who is max level for help. I would like to be able to handle the mission with people my level or by myself.

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Why is 30k gil so hard to obtain!? Farm Wild Onions, Silk Thread, or Beehive Chips, how lazy cab you POSSIBLY be!? Ive never seen as lazy people as Im seeing post here. Do the work, get the items you need, and shut up about it. No one cares about how hard it is for you to do something that should take 20 minutes. You think its unfair? No one cares about that either.
Just quit now, you sound like you are going to be a terrible high level.

To the person who said you shouldnt have to use the auction house to complete missions. Oh Im sorry, is this your game now? Do what you have to do, what good does whining about it do?
Im not even going to comment on how retarded bring "lore" into ANY conversation is. Grow up

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Why is 30k gil so hard to obtain!?

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Why should lining someone else's pockets be a requirement?

Alternatively, why shouldn't he (hypothetically) buy gil from an RMT if the game is so gil-centric?

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No one cares about how hard it is for you to do something that should take 20 minutes. You think its unfair? No one cares about that either.

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You apparently care enough to post.

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Just quit now, you sound like you are going to be a terrible high level.

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With charming examples of the playerbase like you offering sage advice to new players like "Bend over like I did," it's no wonder the game is foundering.

FFXI: come for the grind, stay for the hazing!

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Why should lining someone else's pockets be a requirement

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Because that's how the game works.

Circumspection says Hi! Your lack of game knowledge makes baby jesus cry.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Circumspection says Hi!

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Said it already, a lot of them are in locations that require you to drop invis to advance, making it useless.

Fair enough, but all this bitching is cray-cray. Go play the game back in 2005 and see how "convenient" it was for us to obtain the Parchment for the first limit break.
Such lazy lazy players, I dont even think I want you higher level, polluting my parties.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Because that's how the game works.

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Except that your little chicken-and-egg problem only goes back to '02.

Ya know what?
The mules name, posting from a level 1 smn, posting Starcade level ramblings...

I think we've all taken troll bait ><
Either that, or its my brain trying to autocorrect this situation...

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

posting from a level 1 smn,

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Kinda hard to have a level anything SMN without having something else 30+.

It is still possible to find enjoyment in FFXI without having to rely on bragging and epeen, despite the devs' best efforts.

At any rate, job and level are no indication of the number of times I've gone through these core-game missions with new players, level sync'd to them more often than not. If anyone doesn't know what they're talking about here, it's someone who hasn't truly seen the outside of endgame in years.

I think people are missing the part about how a full party of players at the appropriate level to do these missions has no chance to survive if they get aggro. I don't think the OP would have a problem if the the mobs checked IT, but a low IT that a full party could manage. Later on in the windy mission line, it is required to go to the 3-mage gate. There are 80+ level goblins on the way, impossible to handle if you are mixing up leveling with missions. Level to 99, then do it should never be the answer.

The same thing with heading to Fei Yin for 5-1. Since this used to be a 50 cap, it is reasonable to assume that regular mobs on the path to the BCNM should be killable by a party of level 50's. But the room full of ghosts on the way there would once again be certain death if someone got aggro at that level.

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Originally Posted by Xantavia

I think people are missing the part about how a full party of players at the appropriate level to do these missions has no chance to survive if they get aggro. I don't think the OP would have a problem if the the mobs checked IT, but a low IT that a full party could manage. Later on in the windy mission line, it is required to go to the 3-mage gate. There are 80+ level goblins on the way, impossible to handle if you are mixing up leveling with missions. Level to 99, then do it should never be the answer.

The same thing with heading to Fei Yin for 5-1. Since this used to be a 50 cap, it is reasonable to assume that regular mobs on the path to the BCNM should be killable by a party of level 50's. But the room full of ghosts on the way there would once again be certain death if someone got aggro at that level.

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This is exactly what i was saying. Even if you bring a full alliance of people at the level of the quest you wouldnt survive the missions.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

You forgot "Level 10/20/30: hike your buttaru out to Bastok to pass the rank examinations, just to get through a low-level Windurst mission."

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--wait for ease of exploration Kupo-powers? ("Why should I have to wait?" Well there are other options but less lore-tied, since lore is the only valid reason to do anything in game :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Meyi

hate to see the complaining when Mission 2-3 rolls around and traveling to the other two nations comes into play.

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--I was thinking the same thing. At least there have been some adjustments to make traversing Vana'diel a little easier.

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Originally Posted by Juilan

Stuff

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Jumping in all tl;dr? :confused:

We're not talking about just getting from point A ---> B. It's about the placement of high level monsters in the areas that need to be avoided in order to complete missions.


But in regards to you're comment: I find it funny because when my brother, some friends and myself set out to do these missions, almost a decade ago around level 30 there were still aggressive monsters that had to be avoided. Not these new insanely high level mobs, but they were still aggressive and needed to be avoided. Yes the newly added monsters were mentioned but the topic is more about:

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How am I supposed to get my quests done when I can't find max level characters to help?

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Our options then were to level up a job that could sneak/inv, acquire meds to sneak/inv, or get help in the form of a high level escort or competent and compatible party. These seem like viable options still, more so than complaining to SE about it in hopes that they will move some monsters around.


I'm not defending the design/layout of the new monsters; it is flawed. But in regards to completing missions/quest and high level monsters, there are options to get these completed if people aren't too thick-skulled about it. Or they can play SE's favorite FFXI mini-game: 'The waiting game' and maybe the areas will get adjusted.

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Originally Posted by Xantavia

Later on in the windy mission line, it is required to go to the 3-mage gate. There are 80+ level goblins on the way, impossible to handle if you are mixing up leveling with missions.

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For Windurst 3-2, the Grounds Tome they apparently added near the Mahogany Door fixes that problem.

Level whm *close thread*

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

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No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

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Alchemy is a good skill to have as it can bring in decent money at higher levels. And skill is something that never goes away (unless you take it past 60 and then take another craft past 60). If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month). But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs. Getting the ingredients at his level wouldn't be a problem at all -- Rock Salt (NPC), Distilled Water (NPC), Yellow Globes (fishing in Qufim Island), Cobalt Jellyfish (NPC), Dagger (NPC), Animal Glue (synth with bone chip (AH/Gusgen Mines party) distilled water and rabbit hides (NPC or low level bunnies)), Crying Mustard (NPC), Poison Flour (NPC), Sleepshroom (low level funguar), and Bronze Dagger (NPC). To get to level 32+ is very very easy, even for a lower level player. :/ And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters. They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around -- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups. I'm aware that Square Enix has changed many things about the game, made many events much easier, and having level 99 helps tremendously with foes of the past. However, I also did many events at a low level with friends, in large groups, and suffered much grieving over obstacles. These obstacles trained me to avoid them, and avoid them effectively. So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!", I think this is a decent learning opportunity for this new young adventurer. And while Square Enix is figuring out how to fix this situation, I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

For Windurst 3-2, the Grounds Tome they apparently added near the Mahogany Door fixes that problem.

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You stll need invis to get there in the first place and the books to get you there are all on the other side of the doors, making them useless.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

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The target level of the mission you cite is ~55. Even discounting the possibility of getting adaman ore from chocobo digging, three or so 55's in a party can securely get around large portions of Ifrit's Cauldron.

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Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

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A level 20 player will not be farming an Ahriman Lens to make Prism Powders with.

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If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month).

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So your advice goes from "Give someone else gil" to "Give someone else dollars?"

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But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

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Why must a Windurstian explore Bastok before exploring Windurst's own backyard?

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Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs.

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Most crystals are not, and Light Crystals (necessary for Prism Powders) are notoriously difficult to find at low levels.

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And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

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But why should it be a requirement?

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I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters.

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It should never be required.

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They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around

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"Irritating and difficult" does not not mean "impossible." Name one non-addon mission in which sneak/invis was a requirement.

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-- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups.

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"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

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So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!",

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In this case, you never had to do it in such conditions.

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I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

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And how is this accomplished by "Maek high-level friends, n00b?"

Ugh...so many of your responses are giving me a headache. But I will respond to this one because I found it the most important to clear up with you.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

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Level 99 didn't exist back in 2003. Of course large group does not equate including a 99 in that group. Large is a reference to number of players, not levels. Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

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And today, about the only thing a full alliance of level 20 players can do against a level 80+ goblin is give it TP. The only way they'd last a minute before wiping is if the goblin has a particularly slow weapon in its hand.

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And today, about the only thing a full alliance of level 20 players can do against a level 80+ goblin is give it TP. The only way they'd last a minute before wiping is if the goblin has a particularly slow weapon in its hand.

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If you're xp'in off Lv.80+ mobs around Lv.20 you're doing it wrong.... ^^;

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Originally Posted by Krashport

If you're xp'in off Lv.80+ mobs around Lv.20 you're doing it wrong.... ^^;

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EXP isn't the goal, the goal is completing the mission. There "just happens" to be level 80+ goblins and skeletons in Beetle's Burrow.

GOTO 10

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

EXP isn't the goal, the goal is completing the mission. There "just happens" to be level 80+ goblins and skeletons in Beetle's Burrow.

GOTO 10

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llllevel whm

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Originally Posted by Zerich

llllevel whm

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Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

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are we even playing FFXI?
we can change jobs, store a bunch of gear, and keep our spells for memory with our characters.
sounds like you guys should quit ahead if you think you'll never have to jobchange, to accomplish something within the game.
there's another massively popular MMO where you don't have to/can't change jobs...you should try that one.

this thread is depressing.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

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Too bad? Do it, or stop complaining. They aren't going to change something just because it pleases you. High level mibs have been around what? Years? This is the first post I see of someone careing.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Too bad? Do it, or stop complaining. They aren't going to change something just because it pleases you. High level mibs have been around what? Years? This is the first post I see of someone careing.

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yeah i know the high level mobs have been around but they could be handled by a group of people in range of the quests. These monsters you HAVE TO get a 99 or level a whm or dnc.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

are we even playing FFXI?
we can change jobs, store a bunch of gear, and keep our spells for memory with our characters.
sounds like you guys should quit ahead if you think you'll never have to jobchange, to accomplish something within the game.
there's another massively popular MMO where you don't have to/can't change jobs...you should try that one.

this thread is depressing.

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There is no reason for a person who plays a melee class to need to level up whm nor would they have any spells. Infact the only reason i can think of for subbing whm would be if you want to solo the game. What is the point in that?

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

yeah i know the high level mobs have been around but they could be handled by a group of people in range of the quests. These monsters you HAVE TO get a 99 or level a whm or dnc.

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Wrong, the mobs you are speakig of have been level raised for years now, and everyone but yourself seems to do fine. Do you find it that hard to avoid site aggro even without invis?

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

There is no reason for a person who plays a melee class to need to level up whm nor would they have any spells. Infact the only reason i can think of for subbing whm would be if you want to solo the game. What is the point in that?

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The reason is so you can do your stupid little Windurst mission. You are only hurting yourself being so non-conformist, no one but you cares if you finish your missions, so the sob story isnt very effective.

Shadowsong, there's no reason to become offensive over this matter. It is true that the higher level monsters do pose a problem and make the mission much more problematic. The mission was initially designed to be completed by those levels, and therefore, a complaint against such strong difficulty is a legitimate one that Square Enix does need to address. There's nothing "stupid" about a Windurst Mission. And it's not a "sob" story to not want to level a job a player doesn't want to play.

That said, Iakothm, you're hurting yourself by not expanding your options. It's always a good idea to have different jobs leveled. Maybe not to the max level, maybe not even to the sub level, but enough to get what you need accomplished from it. White Mage may be useful for Sneak, Invis, and teleport spells. Black mage is useful for Warp when you don't want to change to a level 1 job and death warp. Thief is a good subjob for Treasure Hunter while farming. These jobs may not be jobs you want to level, but you will find the time spent invested in them will prove more beneficial than a loss.

And actually, now that I think about it, there was one mission I had to do that invis was required and timing of the door was very scary. It was the one down at the bottom of Castle Oztroja. Perhaps it's the Magicites? There were two yagudos who watched the door very carefully, and it was the one with the two torches. For some reason, touching those torches has always been incredibly challenging; it's as if you have to be in one exact pixel location to make it properly work. And even with other lower level friends, killing the yagudos was sometimes a bit of a challenge. Hmm...

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

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Seriously, the very foundation of this game is practically "level the jobs you have to so you can outfit the jobs you want to."

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Originally Posted by Meyi

And actually, now that I think about it, there was one mission I had to do that invis was required and timing of the door was very scary. It was the one down at the bottom of Castle Oztroja.

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Target level ~40. A less-than-full party at that level can take them. And it's easier to find companions as that's a mission common to all nations.

"I did it that way" isn't the same as "the only way."

The only mission I've done that required sneak and invis was in ACP. And S-E is surprised nobody's bothered finishing that one...