[dev1102] So what is the Ultimate Spell for RDM?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

---

My idea does improve only one aspect at a time, but doesn't gimp another. So Faith wouldn't make melee worse, the spells are no different to Temper or enspells which are strictly melee buffs, which SE already gave to RDM. These spells fall in line strictly with RDM without potentially putting them at OP in all areas.

However, these become less if SE actually put RDM back on the gear it was on instead of putting BLU on it when historically BLU wear only cloth armour whereas RDM equipped both cloth and light armour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

---

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support. The problem was it was poorly implimented, mainly because all our enfeebs came from another job plus the issue with enfeebs on nms anyhow and our enhancing was self buff only which doesn't really do anything to benifit a group setting.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed. Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others. If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time. As for us buffing taking over brd non of our self buffs are truly brd song replacements. As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group. Just because we are given a role won't mean we wont be able to do other functions allowing us to stay a hybrid job, but one with a purpose which we lack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

---

Actually they said they wouldn't create stances, they said nothing about self buffs. Temper is by definition a physical only buff, same as Gain-INT vs Gain-DEX is exclusive mage and melee buffs.

Quote:

---

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

---

WHM's get the same enhancing as /SCH and actually have spells they can give others that benefit from it.

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

---

Huh? When did this happen?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowViper

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enhancing, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

---

By your logic every DRK should be using Scythe because it is their A+ weapon and have highest skill rating out of every job. The reality being that every DRK worth his salt uses Great Sword.

Quote:

---

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed.

---

While remaining a balanced class because we shouldn't be able to do everything at once.

Quote:

---

Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others.

---

Because some thought it would guarantee them a spot for events. I didn't want any more cycles, so I was praying that it was self-cast only.

Quote:

---

If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time.

---

I could live with this, under the condition that we get Renew as mentioned in Hideka's thread. If we're gonna be a walking buff totem, then we're gonna make it real easy to keep buffs up and have it not get in the way of our melee time.

Quote:

---

As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group.

---

Because settling for more of the same crap we had at 75 no longer cuts it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ophannus

So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

---

Composure? It's a bit of an oddball, but it boosts melee accuracy by reducing magic recast. (Increasing buff duration just means less time lost meleeing due to recasting buffs :)

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

I would absolutely love giving others my super buffs. I would absolutely loath spending all my time staring at recast numbers counting seconds till I can spam the next buff on generic melee DD #4. Cycles suck the fun right out of the game.

posted in the wrong thread so i'm moving this to the enhancing magic thread.

I think rdm died when convert and refresh became subbable and of course abyssea didn't help cause whm became awesome with unlimited MP. RDM needs just one unique MAJOR party contribution. Not some little % increase, but like an AOE devotion every 3 mins or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

I would absolutely love giving others my super buffs. I would absolutely loath spending all my time staring at recast numbers counting seconds till I can spam the next buff on generic melee DD #4. Cycles suck the fun right out of the game.

---

I dont mind the cycle if its a variety of spells to improve the group the problem with the cycle casting that I have is we are constantly waiting ont he recast of the same spell so we can cast it on the next person, even though duration has improved its still cast on each individual player till they have it so you eat up a few minutes or recasting 1-3 spells (fitting spells in between the recast of another). Having AOE buffs of some sort, aura, self cast applies to surrounding, or target another member and apply to their surroundings) is the best way to solve this issue and looking at the format set for the other starting mages it also makes sense for the rdm to do this.

One of the most frustrating things about the job years ago for me was when buffs started going down and because you cured someone or raised or ssomething and your cycle was off a few seconds someone would have to remind ya that it just went down, even worst when your back to the cycle and haven't made it to that person and your waiting on the recast of the spell and they are complaining about not having it. Or your fighting a mob that has dispel haven't finished your cycle onto all dd of haste then then someone you already casted says they were dispellled and need it again and they dont get your still casting on others.

Alot of rdms get mad that sch was added, I think it was a much needed job, more of a pure mage closer to whm or blm than rdm which would allow rdm to melee more and be closer to what a blu is but instead of DMG focused fighter be more of a support focused fighter, the problem though is now sch can AOE are self cast buffs with proper sub we still can't do it naturally due to lack of 'gas of those spells.

Cycles do suck but it sucks when its a cycle of the same spell just to get it onto every member.

The thing that is most missed with RDM is we are truly the only job that is defined by our sub which is a horrible concept. WHM can go w/o a sub or w/ a dd sub and its still able to heal and do its job. DD can have any sub including a mage sub and its still a dd may not be as effecient but its still doing its main role. RDM now more than ever is so dependent on sub that if you come /whm you have already told the group your a healer you come /blm your there to help nukes or stun, /sch to be a bit more flexible but still most /sch ask what role they are needed as to set light/dark arts any /dd and you came to melee, but yet non of that has anything to do with our top skills of enhancing and or enfeebling. Every other job subs help enhance their group role or add more utility, this includes other hybrid jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

---

Problem is really that the more important buffs go down together. Enspell, Haste, Temper, Phalanx and Spikes all have the same duration. The reason I like renew so much is because it would solve that problem with ease, as it is a self buff that resets the duration of buffs on you. I would obviously tweak it (have it not affect Blink, Stoneskin, Protect, Shell, Reraise for one), but it would certainly make the prep period we need to buff up less of a hinderance in terms of upkeep.

Protect, Shell and Reraise (long-duration buffs) aren't affected by Composure, so Renew wouldn't work on them either. Blink, Aquaveil and Stoneskin aren't a problem, because it would only affect duration, not remaining charge.

Bit off-topic:
Maybe RDM could get unique tier II enhancing spells like we did with Phalanx II:

Blink II : absorbs more attacks, aoe only consumes one shadow
Aquaveil II : absorbs more hits, regenerates over time (+1/tick, unless hit for >0 damage in last 3 seconds)
Stoneskin II : absorbs more damage, regenerates over time (+25/tick, unless affected by slip damage)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kristal

Protect, Shell and Reraise (long-duration buffs) aren't affected by Composure, so Renew wouldn't work on them either. Blink, Aquaveil and Stoneskin aren't a problem, because it would only affect duration, not remaining charge.

Bit off-topic:
Maybe RDM could get unique tier II enhancing spells like we did with Phalanx II:

Blink II : absorbs more attacks, aoe only consumes one shadow
Aquaveil II : absorbs more hits, regenerates over time (+1/tick, unless hit for >0 damage in last 3 seconds)
Stoneskin II : absorbs more damage, regenerates over time (+25/tick, unless affected by slip damage)

---

Problem with this is unless they are party targetable it's a waste of a spell slot when these should just be the benefits of enhancing skill on the main spells.

Blink could be 3 shadows (as you can see I upped it to 3 of the bat) upto 300 skill then change like so:

4 @ 350
5 @ 400
6 @ 425
7 @ 450
8 @ 475
9 @ 500 (cap)

I'd also have AoE absorb upto 4 shadows and block the damage.

Stoneskin's cap should be upped to 450 upto 550 with Gear

Aquaveil is an odd one as I don't currently know the limits.

For me as far as RDM goes it should go: Tier I (the strongest) is self-target only, Tier II (the weaker version) should be party-targetable, so as I said Stoneskin II, Temper II etc... Should be party targetable with a semi-long duration but a bit weaker effects. (10~ DA) (350 StoneSkin) and so on.

The ability to change job on the field to something more useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

For me as far as RDM goes it should go: Tier I (the strongest) is self-target only, Tier II (the weaker version) should be party-targetable, so as I said Stoneskin II, Temper II etc... Should be party targetable with a semi-long duration but a bit weaker effects. (10~ DA) (350 StoneSkin) and so on.

---

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

---

And offensive buff that is other target-able but not aoe is going to shackle RDM back into cycles. SE won't be giving RDM any such buffs.

I'd hope any "ultimate spell" would be some bad a$$ nearly broke enfeebling magic. Impact was actually a good idea, -20 to all stats. Attaching it to a piece of gear for "every mage" and making it ridiculously expensive while leaving it underpowered is what kills it. They could create a single spell that needs to be case under Sab and inflicts -40~50 to all stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

---

These would be RDM only so they wouldn't work with Accession, SE already said we wont get AoE, but we have spells like Haste and Phalanx II so the argument they don't want us to self-target buff goes out the window as much as I hate Cycles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

---

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."

Quote:

---

These would be RDM only so they wouldn't work with Accession, SE already said we wont get AoE, but we have spells like Haste and Phalanx II so the argument they don't want us to self-target buff goes out the window as much as I hate Cycles.

---

Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."

---

More like "I'm sick of RDM only being about casting stuff on others all the time with little else to bring to the table, especially when taking into account that the job is a hybrid and not a one-trick buffbot". If RDM had the option to tail one other DPS, use haste (or refresh, if you're into that sort of thing) on them while I melee, WS, toss some off-heals, remove status ailments off both of us (/DNC) and had some way to weave nukes in there, and said gameplay was open for more than just duo/campaign/abyssea parties, then I might be a little happier with where we stand. It isn't because of "lolmeleeRDM" and due to not being "efficient" (DPS, proc systems being RDM-unfriendly). You fix melee RDM to mean more than just solo toy and abyssea show off and then I can start giving suggestions on what to do in terms of support. Up until then, give me self-buffs, a way to easily maintain said self-buffs and fix our job (gear, skill proficiencies, WS access, etc).

With the way things are now, I'll be happier the day we get self-cast Enflare (as suggested on the JP forums for our "ultimate spell", by the way) than the day we get <insert crutch buff to force parties to invite a RDM for events>, if only because it gives us more of the same crap instead of actually fixing anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

---

SE already stated RDM would never get AoE, so this is the only way we'll get any enhancing magic that's not self-target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

SE already stated RDM would never get AoE, so this is the only way we'll get any enhancing magic that's not self-target.

---

And SE already stated they want us to buff ourselves and support the party by enfeebling.

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat, beats spending hours upon hours clicking two buttons endlessly, and sure as hell beats the attitude i get from players. "I dont want invites to be a buffbot in a horridly inefficient way, because i want to melee!"

As far as im concerned, It beats the alternative. Not to mention i could play other jobs if i just want to do ONE THING. So i do some nuking, meleeing, and healing as the situation calls for it. Even in einherjar recently with 6 people on chamber 3(wing1), i ended up meleeing and matching(/outdamaging) the thf, mnk and pup (and whatever the last dd was...) and ended up healing and tanking during the boss fight. While keeping the whm refreshed. And if i can keep doing that in old events, then thats just fine by me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat, beats spending hours upon hours clicking two buttons endlessly, and sure as hell beats the attitude i get from players. "I dont want invites to be a buffbot in a horridly inefficient way, because i want to melee!"

As far as im concerned, It beats the alternative. Not to mention i could play other jobs if i just want to do ONE THING. So i do some nuking, meleeing, and healing as the situation calls for it. Even in einherjar recently with 6 people on chamber 3(wing1), i ended up meleeing and matching(/outdamaging) the thf, mnk and pup (and whatever the last dd was...) and ended up healing and tanking during the boss fight. While keeping the whm refreshed. And if i can keep doing that in old events, then thats just fine by me!

---

Outside of the "brick wall with infinite hp" scenario's RDM actually does really well. Can't say enough about how hard we are to kill and how many ways we have to screw with our target. Our one weakness is the "Super Mega Final Boss" fights where we tend to be better off focusing on support of the buffed hard hitters. SE's idea is for us to do that by making the target boss monster weaker, I like that idea, now they need to actually execute it and not fail doing so. It doesn't help that everything from 80+ has been nothing but the aforementioned boss fights. Meleeing on City Tier 1 ~ 3 isn't hard, Tier IV's (@90) were a different story. Same with Jeuno / Zilart, Tier 1 ~ 2 is easy but on Tier III it's a bit crazy (@95). And we see the same thing now with Jeuno II, early tiers are easy but the Tier 6's you shouldn't be meleeing on.

I want to see a remade Limbus type event where you must kill fodder / go through the raid killing minor boss's until at the end you have a "Mega Boss". SE seems too focused on turning out crap "pop boss, fight boss, don't get loot" x 100 time sinks.

Seconded, im still the kind who would love an instanced, no time limit event, however im aware that puts some load on the server, id love to see a stamina based event (preferably point earning and exchange for reward type) where you and a few friends could put a day aside, and spend 8+ hours wading armpit deep through mobs, even if fodder with an occasional boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

And SE already stated they want us to buff ourselves and support the party by enfeebling.

---

Disproved by Phalanx II and Refresh II.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat,

---

Normally it's more a players short coming's than a Job, I don't think I've ever heard any one blame a job for a loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

---

Does any one really still do cycles?

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

---

Well, seem's pretty ridiculous any one would think that way. Anyway this is kind of off topic. So I'm going to drop it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

With the way things are now, I'll be happier the day we get self-cast Enflare (as suggested on the JP forums for our "ultimate spell", by the way) than the day we get <insert crutch buff to force parties to invite a RDM for events>, if only because it gives us more of the same crap instead of actually fixing anything.

---

They actual suggested that? Wow I wonder how they figured that would work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."

---

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...3/arguecat.png
------------------------------------------------------





More on topic: since SE seems set on "self cast buffs ONRY", how about this?

Buff Spell
Boosts everything by X%
and I do mean EVERYTHING.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

---

This pretty much. People don't realize how much work being support is, and it's a completely thankless job. And should something bad happen, the very first person they try to blame is the support / healer. They used to blame the BRD's until those became rare, now the BRD could be naked and singing two buffs and nobody would blame them for fear of making them leave the group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

---

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calatilla

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

---

Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

---

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calatilla

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.

---

SCH does it through JAs, we would do it through spells. We also wouldn't have additional mechanics tied to our spells. On concept it works, and even fits the whole "RDM uses magic to enhance themselves" bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calatilla

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

---

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.

---

I guess, though I don't have much of an issue with SCH (I actually enjoy the fact that it's a pure caster, and always figured it would take that spotlight from our job to allow us to move on). The only real problem I have with that job is that we should have gotten Immanence under a name more fitting to RDM on a 1 minute cooldown. As a job ability it pretty much goes to waste on SCH. Kinda pointless that we have magic burst bonus but no way to guarantee skillchains to take advantage of it. Especially so in a setting where self-skillchains are not exactly uncommon.

Well it's spilled milk now, nothing to do but more on. The real problem with SCH is that this game is too narrow with it's magic system, there simply isn't room to fit in multiple specialist jobs which leaves jobs fighting for slots. Between RDM and SCH a SCH will win on everything not melee related, the buff better, heal better and nuke better, could even enfeeble better once you consider how little difference between Slow I / II there is. SCH is the better version of "Pink Mage".

i know how to fix redmage. they need a new weaponskill.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...alconpunch.jpg

nah im just kidding >_>
see what SE dosent realize
is that when a job is broken, the only way to fix it is to over power it past everything else, and then adjust it down to balanced level. doing small upgrades does not work.
case and point dragoon.
case and point black mage
case and point white mage
i could keep doing this but id get bored.

this is what my take was on how to fix redmage

Imperil
32 MP
level55
3 second casting time
Effect: Deals Damage and reduces Monster resistance to Enfeebling magic



Wound
30 MP
4 Second cast time
Reduces Healing effects received.
Effect: Reduces regen effects by 10-50%, reduces healing effects by 10-30% based on skill.

Jinx
34MP
2.5 second cast
6 second recast
Deals Darkness Based Damage and slightly increases the duration of all current enfeebles on the target.

Pain
50 MP
2 second cast
Effect: augments all enfeebles on the target based on the casters enfeebling magic skill, increases Remaining duration by 30 seconds. see individual enfeebles for effects.
Para> Reduces the monsters TP Usage Frequency
Slow> Increases the monster's Weaponskill Charge time
Blind> lowers the monsters evasion
Gravity> reduces the monsters attack speed
dia > Reduces the monsters Elemental Resistance
Bio > Reduces the monsters Special Defense.
Addle > Reduces the Monster's Magic Accuracy.
Wound > Causes Damage over time equal to 1% of Wounded HP value ( the ammount of HP that the monster cannot recover)
Enhancing
Veilga
160 MP
5 second cast time
Effect: Increases resistance to all status ailments

Vigilga
200 MP
5 second cast time
Reduces the damage from Area of effect abilities.

Boon
RDM
30 Second ReCast time
50 MP
Applies all of the casters currently active Redmage Enhancing magic spells to the target.
Mechanics: works just like Empathy, copies all current buffs, and their durations/potency to the target of this spell, can target alliance members

Renew
100MP
3 second cast time
10 second recast time
Effect: Returns all enhancing magic spells cast by the caster to their maximum values. does not work on buffs NOT applied by the caster.
Nukes

Ruin:
25 MP
1 Second Cast time
3 second recast time
Effect: Deals weak light based damage, increases the next source of elemental damage by +X%. Effect is cumulative, stacks up to 5 times, each application is worth +5% damage. effect wears off when struck from ANY source of elemental damage other then the spell Ruin.

Job Abilities:

Blitz
60 seconds
Delivers a two fold attack. Additional effect: Enhances Enspells
Hidden effect: If an Enspell is currently active on your charachter, then you will preform an "elemental blitz" which is Much more effective then a normal blitz, and carries beneficial effects. (the text log of the blitz effect will be changes based on the currently active enspell Example: enfire is active, Blitz will be displayed as fire blitz)

damage is based off of main hand weapon damage, and the current damage of any enspell.

the use of blitz will enhance enspell and enspells II in different ways
heres an example of how it would improve enfire : Increases Enfires Damage by 100% for 60 seconds, Allows EnfireII to activate on all melee swings for 30 seconds:

Unique blitz effects;
Inferno Blitz> Deals Fire damage, Plauges Target, increases ice based damage dealt to target.

Subzero Blitz> Deals ice damage, Binds Target (breaks after 15 seconds, not by damage), Increases Wind based damage dealt to the target

Whirlwind Blitz > Deals Wind damage, Mutes Target, increases Earth based damage dealt to the target

Fissure Blitz > Deals Earth damage, Petrifies Target ( Not broken by damage, lasts max 15 seconds), increases thunder based damage dealt to the target

Gigavolt Blitz > Deals thunder damage, Stuns Target ( Extremely potent stun), increases Water based damage dealt to the target

Torrential Blitz > Deals water damage, Lowers Targets Magic defense, Increases Fire based damage dealt to the target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hideka

this is what my take was on how to fix redmage

---

As I mentioned in your thread, I LOVED Renew and hope the devs implement it. That one spell would make my life a lot easier and melee gameplay a lot smoother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saevel

Well it's spilled milk now, nothing to do but move on. The real problem with SCH is that this game is too narrow with it's magic system, there simply isn't room to fit in multiple specialist jobs which leaves jobs fighting for slots. Between RDM and SCH a SCH will win on everything not melee related, the buff better, heal better and nuke better, could even enfeeble better once you consider how little difference between Slow I / II there is. SCH is the better version of "Pink Mage".

---

That's the downside of the Final Fantasy IP, though. Same case as it is with enfeebles. Though at the least each job should have it's own version of certain spells, if only so that spellcasting is mechanically sound rather than something that favors one job over another.