Extend Waltz Potency Cap ?

Dear Devs.

SPLIT WALTZES!

Ty.~



Waltzes I : curing waltz 1/2/3 healing waltz and divine waltz 1.
Waltzes II: Curing waltz 4/5 Divine waltz 2.


That is all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eri

If you play your Job well and have the Gear needed noones going to stop you from doing any event on DNC .... you LS matters too. If you think: "I'm a DD on Dnc" . No your not going to do an event on Dnc ever. Supporter and Healer Type of Dancers are in genral way more accepted in events.

---

With whom are you playing? People stuck in 2007? I get complained at on Skype if I waltz myself because that means I dropped Saber Dance.

Currently, dancer's support ability is next to nonexistent, unless you count the ability to keep 1-2 other people alive while fighting EP enemies as legitimate "support."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

With whom are you playing? People stuck in 2007? I get complained at on Skype if I waltz myself because that means I dropped Saber Dance.

Currently, dancer's support ability is next to nonexistent, unless you count the ability to keep 1-2 other people alive while fighting EP enemies as legitimate "support."

---

I would say you are not that good of a Dnc then sir. if that is the best you can pull off ^_- please tell me that is against 20 some ep's. In the LS I run with I'm asked to come Dnc to tank/hold adds, help with healing, procing, and finding hints and NEVER have any one complained about the face I don't even HAVE saber dance. really if the "best" you can do is keep 2 others alive as well as your self when fighting a ep you fail rather well at Dnc. I for one am one if the *gasp* Healer and support Dnc one of the few left by the looks of things and THAT is why I'm wanted on events like VW any help they give to the walzes well be welcomed by me and the few others out there that don't play their Dnc like a gimped Thf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solsticewind

I would say you are not that good of a Dnc then sir. if that is the best you can pull off ^_- please tell me that is against 20 some ep's. In the LS I run with I'm asked to come Dnc to tank/hold adds, help with healing, procing, and finding hints and NEVER have any one complained about the face I don't even HAVE saber dance. really if the "best" you can do is keep 2 others alive as well as your self when fighting a ep you fail rather well at Dnc. I for one am one if the *gasp* Healer and support Dnc one of the few left by the looks of things and THAT is why I'm wanted on events like VW any help they give to the walzes well be welcomed by me and the few others out there that don't play their Dnc like a gimped Thf.

---

This is right for Certain.

And the Point is:

Can you keep a Party cured in a Voidwatch Zerg? No? Neither can I!

Can I keep a Voidwatch Pt Alive if they are carefully Procing and DDing? Yes.

Can a Brd do it? No?

Would it need a Whm? Yes?

Well you not Whm your a supportive class you are supposed to make the mages Job less stressful while helping the Meeles do their Job.....

If you can't do that try a DD Job.

Don't even get me started on Dynamis, the only reason you're there on DNC is because of the proc system. If that didn't exist, you'd take a THF, WHM, and a WAR or something like that and tear things to pieces for max efficiency. DNC would be reserved for those who want to stubbornly solo, basically. Yay for gimmicks!

So let's talk about DNC in real events: VW for example. Okay, so you say that DNC can keep a party alive while carefully procing and DD? Maybe, on something that didn't do a lot of AoE.

The point is, why would you bring a DNC to do that when you could just bring a real support job and call it a day. Can a BRD keep a voidwatch party alive? No. But you know what? 2 WHMs is generally enough to keep an entire VW alliance alive anyway, so who cares? Bring the BRD, or even a COR, because you need them for procs anyway and they'll provide a much greater assistance to the party.

If you INSIST on playing DNC, and the WHMs are perfectly fine handling the cures on their own (which they are, or else you should pretty much get better WHMs, sorry), then what's the point of "supporting" them with waltzes? So they can sit on their temp items for longer? So they can sit at above 50% MP while an Aegis or Ochain PLD takes 100 dmg every 4 seconds?

I'll tell you what the point is: there isn't. You could have spent that TP on something else, which basically boils down to Samba + Damage and debuffing with steps (The ability to find weaknesses quickly is not unique to DNC, as anyone /DNC can do the same thing, although DNC does boast significantly more survivability than most jobs on the front lines). Rudra's can deal 2.5-3.5k damage on Jeuno/Zilart T3s, and that's nothing to scoff at, really. It's better than wasting your time "helping" mages who don't need it because they have infinite MP. Inb4 "Not everyone has Rudra's." Who brings non-empyrean melee to Voidwatch? Come on now.

The biggest lack of insight in this thread however is

Quote:

---

me and the few others out there that don't play their Dnc like a gimped Thf.

---

Gimped THF? It's pretty well-established that DNC's DD potential has overshadowed THF since 80 cap. This is why the THF forum complains so much when DNC get anything even moderately offensive.

The point is, the thing DNC does most efficiently right now is damage. Sure, it can function as a gimped and inefficient supporter, but it's like I always say:

It's perfectly fine to play at reduced efficiency (I make this decision when I choose to go DNC to events in the first place over something more useful), but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's "ideal" just because it's "your playstyle."

Anyway, I'm not saying this is how things SHOULD be. I'm just pointing out the state of things as they ARE.

Fixing what is obviously amiss (DNC being terrible at its intended purpose - support) is the whole point of these two threads:
Two
Threads

Not to derail the derail, but if they do increase the cap on waltz potency to something like 50% or better it would be really nice if they added a dagger trial to something on par with the curing potency staff. Yes i know there is the phurba, but we can dual wield waltz potency daggers if something like this were available which would put us closer to the raised cap without 50 other pieces of gear at 1%-5% a pop.

And if they really wanted to make dnc's wet in the pants they could also have a waltz -timer on the same dagger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by autobot

And if they really wanted to make dnc's wet in the pants they could also have a waltz -timer on the same dagger.

---

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/32078748/FFXI3/nope.png

In a merit-style party of 6 fighting VT/IT monsters without AoE TP moves, DNC can probably keep everyone alive as long as one of the buffing jobs (BRD or COR) subs WHM. There are absolutely 0 events that would inspire such a situation, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byrth

In a merit-style party of 6 fighting VT/IT monsters without AoE TP moves, DNC can probably keep everyone alive as long as one of the buffing jobs (BRD or COR) subs WHM. There are absolutely 0 events that would inspire such a situation, though.

---

Farming limit break items!

I dont count soloable things as events farming limit break items. :x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eri

I dont count soloable things as events farming limit break items. :x

---

Then you don't have a whole hell of a lot to count.

Here are the Details on the changes [dev1076] Healing Adjustments
Looks like a 50% cap! Thats a huge change right there!

30% cap was retarded to begin with, altough honestly items with waltz potency are not as easily obtainable as the curepotency ones.

1% Plectrum
3% Valseur
4% Shoes (fuck gettin 'em ><)
5% Roundel
10% AF1 Body
10% Phurba

That's 33, and getting Shoes is frustrating, Roundel is really expensive and Valseur is... uhm more affordable I guess but 700k still look like overpriced for 3% to me. I guess this is a very subjective thing depending on how much everybody cares about DNC and how much money he has.

In my opinion they should have just consolidated Potency and Waltz gear.


Edit:
I didn't consider Etoile Tiara and its HQ versions simply because imho you should be using Anwig Salade in there. Hoping in the future SE will give us another head equipment with Waltz recast- so that people will be able to get other enhancements on the Anwig >_>

not sure i get the whole thing here...

does that mean cure potency will affect waltzes ?
i'd like that, but i have doubts :
if so they could merge theses stats, but i'd understand them not doing so, as they already exists...
but then why create a new "waltz recevied potency" stat ? that would make no sense if the effect were merged.

i also don't get the "current method".
even if i never tested the "30% waltz cap"(hard to break that without atmas anyway).

so ok, if the ppl who tested had Atma of Harmony and Roundel Earing, the cure potency would be 15%
if that account before waltz in the cap, they should have found 35%, not 30%.
but i guess that's possible...

so if cure+ don't affect waltz and the "revised method" just separated potency+ and received+, meaning one of the rare waltz+, roundel earing would still make us lose 5% on the cap(same for atma of harmony).

Not like there was way to get to the cap as you only have 40% waltz potency in the whole game (without abyssea or campain).

Waltz Received Potency +3% exists on a drop (ring) that was added to the test server a while back. It is pretty much only useful for self-Waltzes. I have all the gear that Zhronne listed, and I was (functionally) never limited by the Waltz cap because I never use Phurba.

This does not really solve the feasibility issues with Waltzes or make alternative methods of increasing potency any more viable. As I have suggested in the past, SE should lower the base HP healed a little and increase the multiplier for the (VIT+CHR) term for Waltzes. This would let us pump up our Waltzes a little and would rely on a stat other than Waltz potency to do so. Adding 40 CHR to your Curing Waltz III set (with +25% potency) only increases your HP healed by 37 points. Isn't that a little ridiculous?

I genereally agree with Byrth on this. But as for the Cap... it would also oped the possibility for a Job Trait Level 50+ that adds a Set % of Potency for the mainjob Job. It would even make sense...that is unless more over expensive Gear is added :x

Yeah, right now the waltz potency cap is kind of irrelevant because in order to breach it, you need to use Phurba. If you're using Phurba, you might as well go sit in a corner, or job change to WHM.

They need to reduce the recast (in some way, shape, or form), even if they have to make waltzes more expensive to do it. Balance, etc.

Until then Waltzes are good for, um, uh, solo.

We are not all Soloers or DD and i feel Dnc subjob is getting to mutch already....

Healing Waltz and high tier cures give to much recast in Party situations to be a reliable supporthealer.
That is an Issue.
But letme ask you.... as you Mentioned Phurba often. Given in my opinion totally situational. (NOT BAD)

Would you like a Stace Ability that "Cuts recast times off by 40% but restricts Weaponsiklls and lowers Evasion" ?
Well guess what. I would. And i would use Phurba then.... offhand.... sometime......
but i would personally prefere they added a Magian Waltz Potency Weapon. Mages get a Staff with Cure Potency.....

The thing is, you could be using a better mainhand (Twashtar or Terpsichore) and offhanding STP or OA2-4 on support DNC, and improve your TP gain rate to actually keep up with the Waltz timer.

Or, you could gear your Daggers for more damage, meaning things die faster, meaning there's less reason for you to waltz.

Phurba is just hurting your performance, no matter how you look at it.

I'm not sure how I feel about that ability. -40% recast isn't going to pass the balance machine, though.

I think it probably would be ok with 40% if the drawback on DMG was great enought and you could not solo with it.
So i would take no WS and i would take say -80+ Eva for a recast reduction by 40%.
(as a Mode Like Saber Dance or Fan Dance)
Maybe thats just me.

Its not even broken since it would make you a true Supporter and looking at Spellcures they can spamm them virtually.
You would be Limited by Tp gain.

As of now im going Daka+3/Lux Pugio until my Terpsichore is done.... (Sorry but Twashtar hurts my looks XD)

But in a situation where you have good tp gain without meeleing... Say Monshade(Ragain) + Regain Rolls + /Sam + Sch Regain (Had this sometime) then Phurba makes a good addintion, however the use is somewhat Limited.

Truth be said, the Ice cone... i mean Twashtar hurts anybody's looks! :P
But so do so many other incredibly useful items, can't get too picky in this game I guess, and if you are you can always datswap!

^ I wish we could change SE's way of thinking as far as balance goes. No one should pick between useful and style. Why is this big so important in their eyes? My deadly character doesn't need to look cute with furry meow meow gloves on because they give haste/dex/agi. There's no reason they should be pushing turdish models through their pipeline and OKing it and slapping on badass stats.

After dealing with the ups and downs that ninja has gone through over the years, i'd expect them to have a clear vision of a job's path and it's needs even if it's only been out for over 3+ years or 1k days or however you want to look at it. Telling me to go buy the two mini expansions so that i can get a measly -2 sec recast or -5tp when stuff cost 50+ tp and have a recast of like 10/15/17/23 while our counter parts (rdm/blu/smn/whm/sch/blm/pld) heal in under half the time or less and can do more healing per sec.

Sadly i have a feeling that they'll reconsider the recast timers after they reconsider smn's bp timers.

Alright... quick side bar.

Does cure potency and waltz potency stack? They used the word stack, but i can't see it with my desultor tassets. Did i miss something? I can't find cure potency elsewhere but legs.

Its a bit of a bad formulation. Cure Potency does not work on Waltzes as of now.

So:

Cure Potency Stacks to Cure Potency ( Up to 50%)

Waltz Potency to Waltz Potency (Up to 50%)

Then you can add in Waltz or Cure recieved gear (35% Cap ?) reaching the full cap (like 85% i cant recall the real number)

Meaning that Cure Potency will not affect Waltz Potency and vice versa. Least how i understand that.

Desultor tassets will only give the benefit of -5 tp to cures for Dancers.
The 5% Cure Potency augment most likely doesnt affect anything for Dnc.

If it did roundel Earring would be 10% Potency (5% Walz and 5% Cure) doesn't sound right does it?

Cure Potency and Waltz Potency are separate stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Only +%50? Yes, but they will allow Samurai to dual wield them.

---

They already did! its called Scathacha! XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyreus

Alright... quick side bar.

---

They are separate stats. They both stack to 50% each. There is also a waltz potency received stat that stacks to a separate 30% cap that is calculated multiplicative with normal gear.

Btw... who in hell even cares about 'recived' Gear ? Outside of self Cures?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eri

Btw... who in hell even cares about 'recived' Gear ? Outside of self Cures?

---

Super handy for tanking. Thant's all I can think of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eri

Btw... who in hell even cares about 'recived' Gear ? Outside of self Cures?

---

It is mostly related to the Corsair's Phantom Roll ability with the Healer's Roll. But us White Mages care very deeply about things that affect cures so we did research on it in order to determine how it functioned and we found that it is multiplicative, which is very important.

Plus if we're really lucky maybe SE will introduce a temp item that boosts the effects of cures and waltzes received.

If by "did research on it" you mean that SE stated it explicitly in their dev posts, okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asymptotic

If by "did research on it" you mean that SE stated it explicitly in their dev posts, okay.

---

I definitely commend people who keep up with the dev posts, it eliminates questions like "is cure potency and waltz potency the same thing" however we did actual research on the potency received effects that Corsairs can also grant. It (well, cure potency, waltzes aren't affected by weather that I know of) multiplies (not adds) to weather effects too unlike the Twilight Cape which adds to weather effects. This means you get an even bigger bonus then if it just counted as a boosted weather effect bonus.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...359#post268359

Like I said, they already explained how it would work. Also, if you needed dev posts to understand that cure + and waltz + don't affect each other, I don't know what to tell you.

Also lol@ healer's roll.

K if you guys have issues with dancer not being able to act like a whm, I think you can just go play whm lol. Whm can't do damage and cure, do you seem them bitching? The timers are fine. I have not had an issue yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

K if you guys have issues with dancer not being able to act like a whm, I think you can just go play whm lol. Whm can't do damage and cure, do you seem them bitching? The timers are fine. I have not had an issue yet.

---

My WHM gets into any event I want in. Why would I need to do damage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

My WHM gets into any event I want in. Why would I need to do damage?

---

And why would dnc need to do a whm job? Get my point? Dnc specializes in doing DAMAGE, while whm specializes in CURING. STop fuckin stalking every thread im in and arguing with me. I'm not even kidding lol...you seriously stalkin me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fupafighter

And why would dnc need to do a whm job? Get my point? Dnc specializes in doing DAMAGE...

---

You don't seem to understand the Job obviously. Play Mnk, Sam, War, Drg instead.

Dancers who try to focusing on DDing are quite competent in that BUT Dancers who try mainhealing are Too.

Reduceing a Hydrid class to one Side of it abilitys is just sorry buisness.

Theres enought players that Leveld this Job to be a Supporter NOT yet another DD.

While Fupafighters statement is flawed, you're the one that is pretending that the support side of DNC is currently relevant, so you really shouldn't speak on who understands the job and who doesn't.