Are Summoners getting jipped ?

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

If the recast is short enough, then we can be invincible, other than a few very hard hitting NMs, we'll be able to basically solo everything else. I honestly think giving Garuda self-healing was probably something that Tanaka always regretted and would have pulled it from us if he can.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

I'm saying that we really dont need a JA or being able to 'Cure' our pet at all since we can just resummon.

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Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

Oh I understood your intent. However, re-summoning is not always an option and is really at this point a overused excuse. Bst can re-summon a jug pet if timer is up and pup can re-summon their auto with timers too (they get two in fact even if one calls it out in a weakened state). Going on this thread of thought, that smn being able to instantly re-summon is the key reason we shouldn't be able to cure our pets: then when a bst jug/charm dies or a auto dies then their recast cool-down should start at that very moment before they can re-summon them. This would preserve smn's instant recast.

Se wants us to "stand back and watch the show" then giving us the ability to keep our avatars alive would be the start of it I imagine.

Edit: oh and to add Dawn mulsum is not smn exclusive. The a fore mentioned jobs can also use the mulsum to cure their pet as well: bst, pup, and even drg.

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k, then I'm lost as to what the intend is. Being able to cure our avatar doesnt' really get us anything and for the most part, resummoning will have a much lower cost associate with curing (in terms of MP). I failed to see under what 'useful' circumstances where resummoning isn't an option. Even in the case that you're up front melee'ing with your avatar, you should know when your avatar is going to die and can run out of range to resummon. Not enough distance, cast a spirit and then run out even more, etc. etc. If you are solo farming, then you should have 'room' to run the distance, if you're in any party situation then there's absolutely no reason that you should be on the TOP of the hate list after your avatar die (barring your melee'ing somehow put you at the top - different discussion on hate issue). I've solo'ed/duo'ed many of the Abyssea NMs, solo farm gold chests, etc. etc. Only time I ever got into trouble is when Chione 2hr when I ran in to BP.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

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Agreed 100%, the only thing you lose when resummoning is the TP build up of the avatar. Which is only useful for magical BP anyway.

You also lose enmity. If the avatar is tanking, healing is good.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You also lose enmity. If the avatar is tanking, healing is good.

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Can't press like enough times.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

k, then I'm lost as to what the intend is. Being able to cure our avatar doesnt' really get us anything and for the most part, resummoning will have a much lower cost associate with curing (in terms of MP). I failed to see under what 'useful' circumstances where resummoning isn't an option. Even in the case that you're up front melee'ing with your avatar, you should know when your avatar is going to die and can run out of range to resummon. Not enough distance, cast a spirit and then run out even more, etc. etc. If you are solo farming, then you should have 'room' to run the distance, if you're in any party situation then there's absolutely no reason that you should be on the TOP of the hate list after your avatar die (barring your melee'ing somehow put you at the top - different discussion on hate issue). I've solo'ed/duo'ed many of the Abyssea NMs, solo farm gold chests, etc. etc. Only time I ever got into trouble is when Chione 2hr when I ran in to BP.

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I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

-Avatar Hate: already stated but a spirit sometimes will not take a mob off you if you have issued too many pacts or swung your staff a lot. Ever buff near a mob while doing kiting? Yeah.. takes a few hits to get it off you when you resummon too. And that's with avatar enmity+ gear. There's a reason BST get snarl.

- Keeping your avatar's TP.

- You don't always have the best spot to resummon (magic aggro mobs for instance. Resummon around them and see what happens)

- Swinging around an Emp staff has very much put me at the top of my pt hate list after my avatar dies quite a few times not to mention curing and doing other things.. yeah I do cure and such also. (makes me laugh so hard when this happens. LOLsmn tank!)


As for the cost of curing an avatar? So what? We have so much perp- gear and the ability to get mp back this shouldn't even be a problem.

I'll turn this around a bit now that I've given some reasons. Can you give me a reason where you WOULDN'T cure your avatar given the ability during combat? Where you would rather it die, hate transfer to you and you forced to run somewhere to resummon.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

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I hope that people understand that my comment here,

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Resummoning a pet is cheaper in terms of MP then casting cures, and cures are balanced with enmity (and there could be additional enmity for healing an avatar if it was neccisary).

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was meant as a point that because you can resummon a pet for cheaper then curing it, it would be balanced to cure it, since you get enmity for curing a pet.

It would be really cool if all the cure potency gear that Summoner gets actually meant something, which would be easy to do if the Summoner (but only the Summoner) could heal their pet.

I think it would be cool to have to play around more with the enmity of your avatar for curing it. I'm all for us healing out pet. Other people though? Yeah no, I have to agree there.

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

I think most people already said it: Avatar Hate.

But I can go into more things:

-Avatar Hate: already stated but a spirit sometimes will not take a mob off you if you have issued too many pacts or swung your staff a lot. Ever buff near a mob while doing kiting? Yeah.. takes a few hits to get it off you when you resummon too. And that's with avatar enmity+ gear. There's a reason BST get snarl.

- Keeping your avatar's TP.

- You don't always have the best spot to resummon (magic aggro mobs for instance. Resummon around them and see what happens)

- Swinging around an Emp staff has very much put me at the top of my pt hate list after my avatar dies quite a few times not to mention curing and doing other things.. yeah I do cure and such also. (makes me laugh so hard when this happens. LOLsmn tank!)


As for the cost of curing an avatar? So what? We have so much perp- gear and the ability to get mp back this shouldn't even be a problem.

I'll turn this around a bit now that I've given some reasons. Can you give me a reason where you WOULDN'T cure your avatar given the ability during combat? Where you would rather it die, hate transfer to you and you forced to run somewhere to resummon.

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- Hate - I agreed, you'll have hate. But combined this with your reply on being on the top of hate list because you're melee'ing when in party. My suggestion is to party with better DD/Tanks. Don't get me wrong, I dont have a problem with SMN melee'ing, especially given the nice MP return on the Emp weapon (gives you option to not /RDM or /SCH which are now the 2 most common subjob for most SMNs). If you're farming in low men group. Other than a few NMs, I cannot imagine anything worthwhile that would last long enough for hate to be any issue at all given that we're 99 now. [please dont go the route of exp/limit party because that's what I'm referring to as 'useful' events].

- Keeping TP - agreed you'll lose whatever amount of TP your avatar has.

- Resummoning spot - again, I fail to see any reason in any useful event where this is an issue. There's no aggro in VW nor WoE. If you're referring to old Content. I fail to see where you won't overpower any of these things now a day. Sea/Sky - sure there are magic aggro, but if you're somehow on the top of hate list (which means you're either solo'ing or your other DD/tanks really sux) then run further away to resummon. There are always gaps even in between magic aggro'ing mobs up in Sky where you can resummon.

- MP cost - no one going to agrue that MP are cheap and easy to come by now. But when compare with resummon vs healing cost, there's no way that healing cost will be lower then the resummon cost. It's about efficiency here.

Efficiency to me is why I say it's better to just resummon and let your avatar die. I failed to see any real useful situation where I would not have an aggro free area where I can resummon and be far enough from the NM given that I do not see where any useful situation where I would be on the top of the NM hate list other than the case where I'm just solo'ing the NM at all.

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

- MP cost - no one going to agrue that MP are cheap and easy to come by now. But when compare with resummon vs healing cost, there's no way that healing cost will be lower then the resummon cost. It's about efficiency here.

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That's what balances it though. It would be cheaper to not heal your avatar, and you would get even more enmity then normal just by healing it. But those are the risks for keeping it alive and avoiding the risk of resummoning.

You might not see the use, or might even be able to consistently resummon, but others would see benefit from this, and it would be interesting gameplay, even give a bit of a flavor reason why most Summoners sub a healer job these days, and be great synergy with the most common subjob of Summoners.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

That's what balances it though. It would be cheaper to not heal your avatar, and you would get even more enmity then normal just by healing it. But those are the risks for keeping it alive and avoiding the risk of resummoning.

You might not see the use, or might even be able to consistently resummon, but others would see benefit from this, and it would be interesting gameplay, even give a bit of a flavor reason why most Summoners sub a healer job these days, and be great synergy with the most common subjob of Summoners.

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Agreed. There could be possibly some situational use of this. But given all the failings of the game lately, I would much rather SE spend the oh-so-limited resources that we have in fixing a lot of other issues before they spent those resources in giving us 'per curing' given how limited use that would most likely be.

Bigger failures such as: WoE, VW, giving us new WS'es that are mostly fails (there appears to be a few success like SAM's but those are the exceptions then norms), BST still stuck with a 5min call beast timer, etc.

I don't think Summoners care about those "Bigger" issues. It is just the stuff you want.

I think pet curing is probably up there among the top 5 things that could be added for the SMN job.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I think pet curing is probably up there among the top 5 things that could be added for the SMN job.

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I'm guessing your list would look something like this? No particular order, mainly because I suck at that sort of thing. If there was an order, I'd assume you'd put spirits at the top... actually, I think your list would just be "fix spirits" five times. :p

• Give WS traits to the higher level Blood Pacts, particularly the merited ones.
• Add Cait Sith and Atmos.
• Fix Spirits.
• Pet curing.
• Make it easier to skill up Summoning Magic.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I'm guessing your list would look something like this? No particular order, mainly because I suck at that sort of thing. If there was an order, I'd assume you'd put spirits at the top... actually, I think your list would just be "fix spirits" five times. :p

• Give WS traits to the higher level Blood Pacts, particularly the merited ones.
• Add Cait Sith and Atmos.
• Fix Spirits.
• Pet curing.
• Make it easier to skill up Summoning Magic.

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No thanks to Cait Sith(it's going to be a gimmick summon anyways); Summoning magic is easy enough to skillup, just use Diabolos~; No global timer on bloodpacts would be the #1 fix summoner could have imo.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I'm guessing your list would look something like this? No particular order, mainly because I suck at that sort of thing. If there was an order, I'd assume you'd put spirits at the top... actually, I think your list would just be "fix spirits" five times. :p

• Give WS traits to the higher level Blood Pacts, particularly the merited ones.
• Add Cait Sith and Atmos.
• Fix Spirits.
• Pet curing.
• Make it easier to skill up Summoning Magic.

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Nah, it is more like

• Make BP:Ward Potency scale with level/skill
• Add AOE BP:Rages not on 2 hour timer
• Add a way to reduce BP timers efficiently (or just split them up individually)
• Fix Spirits.
• Pet curing.

On about point 6, outside the list, it would probably be more melee stats and WSes for SMN and staff. But it isn't like I ever expect that to happen.

Cait Sith is probably around 10th place or lower, since the only reason I want it is for regain aura, and that is just wishful thinking and not confirmed.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

On about point 6, outside the list, it would probably be more melee stats and WSes for SMN and staff. But it isn't like I ever expect that to happen.

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Its been frustrating with mage melee, since it has been neglected in general since 75 cap, or the gear we've gotten has just been a side-grade to previous things, although Summoners have fared better as a result of the gear for all mages that is a side-grade to the Red Mage or White Mage gear, as those jobs are somewhat more capable of melee then Summoners.

Personally, as a White Mage, I've been disappointed by many of the gear pieces, due to a point of haste dropped here or a lack of an upgrade over a piece you'd get at 75 aside from merging two pieces... I'm holding out hope that they plan on giving true upgrades in later, story rich content, but I'd be lying to say that I have any certainty of that.

For Summoners, adding WS traits to mobs is a nice way to do this that also benefits parties even if the SMN sits in the back, and I think that's why everyone loves the suggestion. Outside of that I don't think SMN is going to get any melee stats as a job really, its mostly in the gear and maybe if we're lucky, weapon skills.

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Also, I have great hope for Cait Sith, even if nobody else does. Maybe it can even emote with the Summoner using it... :p

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Also, I have great hope for Cait Sith, even if nobody else does. Maybe it can even emote with the Summoner using it... :p

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and becoming something like pup or drg woo~!(which is kind of an upgrade lol...)

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

and becoming something like pup or drg woo~!(which is kind of an upgrade lol...)

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Considering the game we play, it would probably be a side grade.

You know what i want? Some indication that smn comments are being heard by the devs.

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Originally Posted by Divinechild

You know what i want? Some indication that smn comments are being heard by the devs.

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Trying again... Phone acting up.

There's a pet haste belt for all pet jobs that I recommended. It is evidence that SE does listen. There is plenty of evidence, but there's no requirement that you like the answer.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

There's a pet haste belt for all pet jobs that I recommended.

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I would like that in hat form for all pet jobs too... the AMK hat is nice but the way it is set up tends to favor getting it for one job, and that's usually BST due to the damage reduction...

Cat Lover's Hat
[Head] 99 BST SMN PUP DRG
Haste +5% Pet: Haste +5% Damage Taken -10%

Maybe we could see other stats too?

I think you mean fpet damage taken. ;)

Oops, can't read. Carry on!

Perhaps if there was some way to give our avatar stoneskin when we cure it? Much like WHM with Afflatus Solace, but would only apply to the avatar. Or maybe some way to negate damage dealt to avatar with our MP, like Black Mages and Manawall?

Summoner really just got jipped . . . . . .

SMN needs Bahamut or its dead!

Seriously what the hell is SE thinking ?!