Need for DPS - which job is the most damaging?

Ukonvasara is better than it's mmyth/relic counterpart by far. Also, set bonuses do not affect WSs if i'm not mistaken. At least that's how it is with DRK(or have yet to experience a set bonus proc on a WS if it does occur

This is not true. Conqueror, like most Mythics, is pretty much amazing and destroys Ukon/Bravura. Bravura also allows for many more defensive options while maintaining capped gear Haste, and is comparable to Ukonvasara on stronger enemies. It will be weaker than Ukon on weak shit in Abyssea, though.

Overall hierarchy for Great Axes is Conqueror on anything > Bravura on strong shit > Ukon on strong shit > Ukon on weak shit > Bravura on weak shit

y'all forgot pup

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

y'all forgot pup

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Pup, ok let's see. First off, pup really can't zerg well. You can't tp feed your automaton like you can for yourself with meditate/temps. So it immediately loses a large chunk of dmg.

As a DoT DD, it can maintain consistent high dmg WSs, but its melee can't keep up well due to native high delay h2h (unlike mnk). Verethragna doesn't add a ton of damage to pup for 2 reasons. Stringing pummel is nearly as good as VS, and AM on h2h is a little gimped because it can only proc on the first hand. Also, this doesn't increase your auto's damage at all.

So finally, pup's savior is its mythic. oa2-3x for the master AND the auto. This increases tp gain and WS damage of both auto and master by a significant degree. In terms of mythics, this one grants one of the highest changes to the job. The ability to spam SP (with a 15% bonus to dmg!) and armor shatterer/string shredder turns pup into a powerhouse DoT.

tl;dr;lolpup - pup can't match other high end DDs until they have a mythic, but i would say pup also beats many high end DDs with said mythic.

That's if and only if the other DDs don't have mythics themselves, which is a fairly disingenuous comparison.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

That's if and only if the other DDs don't have mythics themselves, which is a fairly disingenuous comparison.

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The only job that benefits as much as pup from mythic would be drg, since both jobs use their mythic WS, and receive a straight +15% WS damage. Other jobs with weaker mythic WS are forced to use the WS to activate their AM, and then they'll spam their better WS. Meaning that hidden +15% WS damage isn't adding much to their damage.

I'm pretty sure Dnc can benefit quite a bit from there mythic to make multiple skill chains. Unless they have changed it in this update, Dnc doesn't have a relic so it's either mythic or empy.

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Originally Posted by ApocalypseNow

I'm pretty sure Dnc can benefit quite a bit from there mythic to make multiple skill chains. Unless they have changed it in this update, Dnc doesn't have a relic so it's either mythic or empy.

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True, pyrrhic is a decent WS, DE is dnc's best out of abyssea though. dnc can do a 2 step skillchain using reverse flourish or a 3 step using /sam and sekkanoki. (maybe 4 w/ meditate if timed right? not sure)

If im remembering correctly, terpsichore makes steps grant 5 FMs. This would allow the dnc to benefit from using step->refresh flourish, instead of lose tp from it currently (which happens due to JA delay) However, it doesn't allows for any more skillchains than current due to reverse flourish's recast. Although with dnc's tp gain+meditate+oa2-3 AM, im almost certain the dnc could make that 4 step SC.

For certain terpsichore would increase dnc's zerg ability by a decent margin. And would increase overall dmg especially when you can evisc->pyrrhic (with +15% ws dmg) for darkness which will mirror that +15%.

Ya pretty much what I was getting to Dragonlord. I would be interested if you still get the 5 FM's from Terp if it's in your off hand. I would think so, and in that case it would be cool to have Empy in main, and mythic in off hand :O. lol

I'm pretty sure relics/emps/mythics don't do anything special in offhand. But i can't say i've heard an account from some one w/ a mythic, but it's how relics/emps are.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

The only job that benefits as much as pup from mythic would be drg, since both jobs use their mythic WS, and receive a straight +15% WS damage. Other jobs with weaker mythic WS are forced to use the WS to activate their AM, and then they'll spam their better WS. Meaning that hidden +15% WS damage isn't adding much to their damage.

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Don't forget about Nirvana for SMN~ +40(maybe 45 for 99?) mab and the oat2-3 for smn and pet with Garland of Bliss decreasing the target's defenses by 12.5%? ;3 pretty boss as well imo. would love to get my hands on 1 myself. just need all those alexandrites... near 5k merit BPs mmm~(outside that is)

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

Don't forget about Nirvana for SMN~ +40(maybe 45 for 99?) mab and the oat2-3 for smn and pet with Garland of Bliss decreasing the target's defenses by 12.5%? ;3 pretty boss as well imo. would love to get my hands on 1 myself. just need all those alexandrites... near 5k merit BPs mmm~(outside that is)

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Hmm, well tbh smn is probably the job i know least about, lol. If it's like blm, however, the HQ ele staves will still beat the +40 mab, and the elemental ToM staves go far beyond the HQs. The defense down is pretty irrelavent since defense down does not stack and other jobs like drg (that should be meleeing, unlike smn) grants a better defense down. The oa2-3 for pet would be interesting, but avatar melee dmg is terribly underwhelming to begin with.

Er... Avatars aren't affected by affinity damage boosts last I checked, just the -perp.

The only elemental trial which helps them are the pet: staves.

Indeed. the HQ staves only provided perp-3. the ToM smn pet staves also only provided perp-, but with the additional property of basically capping your BP delay- for the pet of that element ToM staff. Nirvana will add around 50% more damage to or pet's magic BPs, the OA2-3 for the pets with more atk is very nice. And i can get 100tp in the time it takes for my BP timer to cooldown ^^ will probably be a little faster with Nirvana(with the whole more attacks and all).

It's quite less than 50%, Celestial Avatars are Blms and have at least MABV.

I don't see how people keep thinking that the celestial avatars are blms :< I have never read anywhere that they have any JT.

Regardless, Nirvana would add a tremendous boost to SMNs magic damage.

Define "Tremendous". It's pretty much a 15%-ish increase over Pet:MAB staves, discounting the OAT which is not a huge loss considering how strongly Avatars favor BP damage over white damage.

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

I don't see how people keep thinking that the celestial avatars are blms :< I have never read anywhere that they have any JT.

Regardless, Nirvana would add a tremendous boost to SMNs magic damage.

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They do have job traits. Most of them have MAB. Carbuncle doesn't, it instead has Auto Regen and I believe MDB. I never checked for MDB, but I did check for the others years ago.

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Originally Posted by Jerynh

y'all forgot pup

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For future reference, from one pup to another, never bring up pup in a conversation like this, because

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Pup, ok let's see. First off, pup really can't zerg well. You can't tp feed your automaton like you can for yourself with meditate/temps. So it immediately loses a large chunk of dmg.

As a DoT DD, it can maintain consistent high dmg WSs, but its melee can't keep up well due to native high delay h2h (unlike mnk). Verethragna doesn't add a ton of damage to pup for 2 reasons. Stringing pummel is nearly as good as VS, and AM on h2h is a little gimped because it can only proc on the first hand. Also, this doesn't increase your auto's damage at all.

So finally, pup's savior is its mythic. oa2-3x for the master AND the auto. This increases tp gain and WS damage of both auto and master by a significant degree. In terms of mythics, this one grants one of the highest changes to the job. The ability to spam SP (with a 15% bonus to dmg!) and armor shatterer/string shredder turns pup into a powerhouse DoT.

tl;dr;lolpup - pup can't match other high end DDs until they have a mythic, but i would say pup also beats many high end DDs with said mythic.

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is all aggravatingly true. In terms of raw DD, you're only options are get Kenkonken or change jobs. Pup will always shine in it's lowman utility and flexibility in terms of party role, but there's no point even bringing it up in a min-max best DD discussion, sad to say. We are the only job with Cure VI, Thunder V, and the ability to put out strong melee damage (I said strong, not superwarmnksamgodmode, don't flip shit and try to correct me because you define the word "strong" differently), but the job is so difficult to play well and expensive to gear properly, and misunderstood in general, that most people won't bother considering it for any event ever, unless they know the person playing it.

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Originally Posted by Kokorololi

They do have job traits. Most of them have MAB. Carbuncle doesn't, it instead has Auto Regen and I believe MDB. I never checked for MDB, but I did check for the others years ago.

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If they do have MAB, they definitely don't have enough. but more JTs is a must for out pets, like attack bonus, DA, TA, TH(damn you bsts!), and much much more.

Mythic sam, ragnarok drk, mythic drg. Those are my top 3 picks. Shoha with lvl 3 aftermath on mythic is just insane 0.o And a 30% boost to drakesbane is just insane too.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Pup, ok let's see. First off, pup really can't zerg well. You can't tp feed your automaton like you can for yourself with meditate/temps. So it immediately loses a large chunk of dmg.

As a DoT DD, it can maintain consistent high dmg WSs, but its melee can't keep up well due to native high delay h2h (unlike mnk).

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You CAN TP feed automatons. Heat Capacitor with triple FM will even beat SAM, although you'd need to use a Kenkonken to use it most effectively. Without KKK, it'll be a bit trickier, but still beats /SAM.

Also, H2H delay is not the issue when compared between MNK and PUP, PUP can get lower delay then MNK. MNK has the advantage in skill and JAs to give it higher damage per hit, but PUP has the better hits/round (when you include pet.)

But as someone already mentioned, comparing PUP to other jobs is very difficult. There's too many variables floating around, and too few people that can manage all of them in the midst of battle. Even SE devs have trouble with PUP.

In lowman situations (like dynamis or abyssea) mythic pup should beat a mythic sam. Other than that, no. It's pretty much ryugohige drg or koga sam. Their weaponskills are too powerful.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

You CAN TP feed automatons. Heat Capacitor with triple FM will even beat SAM, although you'd need to use a Kenkonken to use it most effectively. Without KKK, it'll be a bit trickier, but still beats /SAM.

Also, H2H delay is not the issue when compared between MNK and PUP, PUP can get lower delay then MNK. MNK has the advantage in skill and JAs to give it higher damage per hit, but PUP has the better hits/round (when you include pet.)

But as someone already mentioned, comparing PUP to other jobs is very difficult. There's too many variables floating around, and too few people that can manage all of them in the midst of battle. Even SE devs have trouble with PUP.

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You forgot to mention that a haste capped 2 hander blows any 1 hand DD out of the water. As haste increases, 1 handers fall behind.

From personal experience from seeing the dmg out put by members of my ls mythic drg lvl 99 polearm has done around 5-6k consistantly to Arch Dynamis Lord. Amano lvl 99 using shoha i have seen hit 10k to ADL but consistant damage is around 5-6k as well. Ragnarok lvl 99 on drk i have seen do around the same as the Amano but I have seen it do around 13k to CC in Abyssea Misereaux. A lvl 99 Apoc I have done 4800 to ADL but more consistant with about 3,900-4k this is with souleater and last resort in effect. We do not have any other mythics in ls to test dmg with yet. As for our Vere mnks they all have switched over or are currently working on ukon due to Vere low damage out put.

Blms say hello..... Thundaja, blizzaja, firaja me-te-orrrrrr. (No my gimped ass ain't got it yet, but once I dooooo, muhahahaha). In any case, we still do cool stuff with our mp..... Dropping 5-6k bombs when ever we darn well please..... Take that muscle bound dd.

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

Blms say hello..... Thundaja, blizzaja, firaja me-te-orrrrrr. (No my gimped ass ain't got it yet, but once I dooooo, muhahahaha). In any case, we still do cool stuff with our mp..... Dropping 5-6k bombs when ever we darn well please..... Take that muscle bound dd.

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I'm dropping 8k WS whenever I damn well please. And about half of that in melee damage in between. And I never run out of MP.

And goes plop when his epic buffs wear..... and the good ol blms clean up the mess after as usual... :P

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Originally Posted by Nawesemo

And goes plop when his epic buffs wear..... and the good ol blms clean up the mess after as usual... :P

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No buffs .

Fail troll is fail

/sulk /laugh /goodbye

I don't know why but when I read the topic I immediately thought RMT is the most damaging job of course. They fishbot for months at a time, control prices, camp against you to sell you the drop, and hack your acct to strip it clean. It's easily the most 'damaging job' in the game.

Anyone else have that same thought?