[dev1041] Relic Armor Upgrades

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

The set bonus I want is a 10% proc with the full set on to give the Bonus of Saboteur on Enfeeble casts.

I'm not 100% what you are saying, because it sounds like you want enfeebling fixed, but then you don't. If you think that this set bonus does anything but perpetuate the era of buffing then, you are just wrong. OUR MAIN JOB ISN'T BUFFING. OUR SET BONUS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO OUR MAIN FUNCTION. OUR MAIN FUNCTION IS ENFEEBLING.

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I'd prefer more gear flexibility for enfeebling than "AF3 +2 ONRY".

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I'd rather they leave the set bonus as is and just rework the dMND formulas for Slow II, Paralyze II, and Addle. Change Saboteur so that it is only consumed when an Enfeeble lands on the target. Remove NM immunity and just give them manageable but high Magic Evasion.

NMs are supposed to become easier when Enfeebled. That's not a bad thing. If SE thinks that NMs will be too easy if we can enfeeble them, then maybe they should make them harder to begin with.

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At least it's a solution. Make it so we can offer a party something worth their time. If your SCHs, WHMs, or BLMs have enough magic accuracy to land enfeebles, great. But STOP LETTING THEM STEP ON OUR TOES BY CARING ABOUT WHETHER THEY CAN LAND ENFEEBLES AND START CARING IF WE CAN. That's our job. If you need enfeebles that can stick, then maybe you should get a RDM.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I'd prefer more gear flexibility for enfeebling than "AF3 +2 ONRY".

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Really because if landing Enfeebles actually came down to Magic Accuracy, you would be hard pressed to find a better set. I mean why would you need the flexibility for enfeebles when they are offering you one of the best sets you can get? It's not like Enfeebling Magic skill affects anything at this point besides landing spells, which you can't do against immunity, and not being interrupted while casting. It does nothing for potency. That is all based on Stats....which this set gives a ton of. It gives more MND than the BLM+2 gives INT and it gives more INT than the WHM+2 gives MND.

Please look at BLM and WHM set bonuses and realize how they got something extra to add to their job. Then notice that we got nothing that ADDS to our job. It only calls us too lazy to reapply buffs properly. We have no guarantee that we will get another set bonus and the one we have is pathetic and insulting.

Since landing enfeebles comes down to nothing right now then I guess your response is realistic and cynical. When your opinion of 'just leave it how it is and I won't suggest anything' gets us nothing, then I hope you like the realism of nothing changing on RDM. It honestly could happen, RDM hasn't gotten stronger post 75, it has gotten weaker.

You are on official forums, posting nothing constructive. You aren't asking how SE can improve your job. You aren't explaining how things currently are for your job and why it is in a bad spot right now. You are just trying to shoot down other people with single sentences to show everyone how much you don't care about this job. If I'm wrong, then act like it. These forums are a luxury we haven't ever had. I would hope that wasn't lost on anyone that actually plays and wants to play RDM in the future.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

The set bonus I want is a 10% proc with the full set on to give the Bonus of Saboteur on Enfeeble casts.

I'm not 100% what you are saying, because it sounds like you want enfeebling fixed, but then you don't. If you think that this set bonus does anything but perpetuate the era of buffing then, you are just wrong. OUR MAIN JOB ISN'T BUFFING. OUR SET BONUS SHOULD BE RELEVANT TO OUR MAIN FUNCTION. OUR MAIN FUNCTION IS ENFEEBLING.

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No, I'm seeing the bigger picture, I want them to fix Enfeebling but NOT locked to a suit.

The fact is when/if they do fix enfeebling, like it or not we'll go back to needing to enhance the party at the bare minimum. By removing this set bonus you will then put us back at the horrible lvl 75 enhancing format. At least this cuts the load down due to the near double duration. Our suit is already quite a decent buff on enfeebling, it just simply doesn't land on anything worth it.

Curious why not locking enfeebling to a set is okay, but enhancing others is. Old hat argument from me saying our spell duration boosts should've come independent of a full set (like Composure working on everyone from the start), but yeah...

Unlikely the set will change at this point. And from what we've seen of Relic+2, for now it's basically continuations of existing stats with a few curveballs thrown in here and there. The body would be a nice upgrade for us since it's either Glamor Jupon's piddly +3 or a rare/expensive VW body for the slot. Just hope that whatever the required trade in item is isn't too rare.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

Curious why not locking enfeebling to a set is okay, but enhancing others is.

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Because the two primary spells we cast on others are static effects that previously could not be enhanced by gear. I agree that such an improvement would be better suited to being fixed independent of gear, but as things currently stand the gear fix is sufficient.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

You are just trying to shoot down other people with single sentences to show everyone how much you don't care about this job.

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I would not be in here brow-beating troglodytes if I were anything other than passionate about my favorite job.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Because the two primary spells we cast on others are static effects that previously could not be enhanced by gear. I agree that such an improvement would be better suited to being fixed independent of gear, but as things currently stand the gear fix is sufficient.


I would not be in here brow-beating troglodytes if I were anything other than passionate about my favorite job.

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I'll give you a touche and possibly and 2nd touche, but I still think it was handled poorly. What i've seen of new relics is the same as what Seriha reports. It still feels like we got left out of the club for set bonuses that are awesome, just like we got left off the list of upgrades past 75 that were awesome.

We are supposed to be well past the updates that should bring everyone in line with 75. Instead we are getting upgrades like Temper that are basic functionality of a Warrior. WAR gets double attack at 25, it gets subbed at level 50. Even if you divide RDM level by 3 to represent WAR/WHM/BLM you should still get it at 75.

This is old content. Where is the new content for RDM? When are we getting to actually be balanced? What does the next set of upgrades do to fix this? I expect everything that is in the new relic set to be actually worth acquiring. I don't think it would be appropriate to add upgrades to these items just so that we replace them again or never use them in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Joke fixed. I like that neither of us thinks that we are going to get a comprehensive set out of this. You pretty much have to hope that we can get pieces we can mix and match. The likelihood of a good set bonus seems grim.

I would love a decent melee chest piece, but it's probably not happening on Relic Chest. The best I can currently see is Aug'd Blood Scale mail that you get the 3% Haste, the accuracy, and get lucky on your random Augments.

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Enspell II's arent half bad if your /war or /paladin and cant dualwield. they were only intended as an alternative spell for RDMs who arent dualwielding so their damage dosent get horrigimped. if you actualy sit and take a look at the effects of phalanx and enspells, youll notice that if your wearing the proper enhancing gear, and the proper Enspelldamage + gear, you can actualy get all the way up to a 20-40% DOT increase Via your Enspells. with the enhancing sword, chimeric fleuret and Fencers ring, i can quite easily hit 40-50 damage based on day, per swing, which translates into 40-80 damage per swing on an enspell II when /warrior.
another underrated spell is phalanx. when im /warrior i take about 200-150 with NO PDT gear on, just Food protect and defender. my Phalanx's currently negate arround 44-50 damage, that puts it at the equivalent of 20-40% PDT for most incoming Melee swings from Non NMs. stack on some PDT and your taking 10-50 damage per swing no problem.

my personal hopes for RDM, would be a DD set of Hands with haste, and a DD set of feet with haste, anything else i could care less about.

Fencer's Ring only works under 75% HP =/ Enhancing sword is also extremely underpowered for level 95, and if your focus is on Enspell damage only you're much better off with Ceremonial Dagger and other low delay weapons. I'd really like to see what set you're using to get 638 Enhancing Magic Skill, too, considering that's what is required for a -50 dmg Phalanx 1.

Dusk/+1 also does not exist?

I can't find much of anything that's credible in that post.

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Originally Posted by hideka

Enspell II's arent half bad if your /war or /paladin and cant dualwield. they were only intended as an alternative spell for RDMs who arent dualwielding so their damage dosent get horrigimped. if you actualy sit and take a look at the effects of phalanx and enspells, youll notice that if your wearing the proper enhancing gear, and the proper Enspelldamage + gear, you can actualy get all the way up to a 20-40% DOT increase Via your Enspells. with the enhancing sword, chimeric fleuret and Fencers ring, i can quite easily hit 40-50 damage based on day, per swing, which translates into 40-80 damage per swing on an enspell II when /warrior.
another underrated spell is phalanx. when im /warrior i take about 200-150 with NO PDT gear on, just Food protect and defender. my Phalanx's currently negate arround 44-50 damage, that puts it at the equivalent of 20-40% PDT for most incoming Melee swings from Non NMs. stack on some PDT and your taking 10-50 damage per swing no problem.

my personal hopes for RDM, would be a DD set of Hands with haste, and a DD set of feet with haste, anything else i could care less about.

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I use Enspell 2s when I use /DRK or /PLD. In aby, I like using atma of the Lion and using Enthunder II to get more DPS. Against higher defense mobs, it actually makes a decent difference. If Enspell 2s went off on every main hand hit, it would be fixed. I don't enjoy that I run around at 20-35% double attack and I don't get additional applications of Enspell 2s on my double attack procs. It just needs more damage all around to be acceptable. It's one of my chief gripes against why RDM is going so poorly.

Phallanx is awesome. I run around in close to 50% PDT all the time.

As far as Hands go, Alucinor' Mitts are the best you can get. For feet, Eurus' Ledelsens, Legs Calmecac Trousers.

The part that I hate is the chest piece. Your options for Haste are Goliard's, Nashira's, or Blood/Crimson Scale Mail that is Augmented to HQ3. None are particularly easy to get. You certainly can't pick up a pink chest piece or a Loki's like most jobs, but I'm in love with Blood Scale Mail. I always have been. If you can't get anything with Haste on it, I would go with Antares Harness.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I use Enspell 2s when I use /DRK or /PLD. In aby, I like using atma of the Lion and using Enthunder II to get more DPS. Against higher defense mobs, it actually makes a decent difference. If Enspell 2s went off on every main hand hit, it would be fixed. I don't enjoy that I run around at 20-35% double attack and I don't get additional applications of Enspell 2s on my double attack procs. It just needs more damage all around to be acceptable. It's one of my chief gripes against why RDM is going so poorly.

Phallanx is awesome. I run around in close to 50% PDT all the time.

As far as Hands go, Alucinor' Mitts are the best you can get. For feet, Eurus' Ledelsens, Legs Calmecac Trousers.

The part that I hate is the chest piece. Your options for Haste are Goliard's, Nashira's, or Blood/Crimson Scale Mail that is Augmented to HQ3. None are particularly easy to get. You certainly can't pick up a pink chest piece or a Loki's like most jobs, but I'm in love with Blood Scale Mail. I always have been. If you can't get anything with Haste on it, I would go with Antares Harness.

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I use Enspell II's when /DRK, their ~ok~ that way but still sorely underwhelming.

You can cap haste or nearly cap haste pretty easily now.

Head: Zelus Tiera: 8%
Hands: Dusk +1: 4% (Alc hands virtually don't exist due to the new Dyna Tav being utterly ridiculous)
Belt: Either speed belt (6%) or the 5% one off the big turtle in abyseea T.canyon.
Legs: Calmeric Trousers: 3%
Feet: Eurus' Ledelsens +4%

Will put you at 24~25 haste without using your body. For body I just use ACP body Atk / Acc. Only alternative I see is using Goliard body and the 10 acc / 12 atk feet, I'll be looking into this but not entirely sure if it's worth the effort.

If you HQ3 Blood Scale mail you will get 3% Haste, you will get 1 of 4 specific enhancements, and you have the chance to get some other random augments. Of the 4 specific augments you can get, there is Acc, STR, AGI, and CHR. AGI and CHR are pretty much horrible, but Acc is not to be scoffed at in conjunction with Haste and STR makes this body piece one of the best Sanguine Blade bodies. The kicker is that it is possible to get even more Acc or more STR in the random augments. You could even get MAB or Atk. This is a pipe dream of a piece, but I still want it and have no intention of giving up until they make something better.

If you put Haste on the Body you can use a Brisk Mask for your Head and still get pretty close with a 6% Haste Belt. 26 Defense, 6 Acc & Atk, and 4 Store TP isn't bad.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

If you HQ3 Blood Scale mail you will get 3% Haste, you will get 1 of 4 specific enhancements, and you have the chance to get some other random augments. Of the 4 specific augments you can get, there is Acc, STR, AGI, and CHR. AGI and CHR are pretty much horrible, but Acc is not to be scoffed at in conjunction with Haste and STR makes this body piece one of the best Sanguine Blade bodies. The kicker is that it is possible to get even more Acc or more STR in the random augments. You could even get MAB or Atk. This is a pipe dream of a piece, but I still want it and have no intention of giving up until they make something better.

If you put Haste on the Body you can use a Brisk Mask for your Head and still get pretty close with a 6% Haste Belt. 26 Defense, 6 Acc & Atk, and 4 Store TP isn't bad.

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Also it's one less piece you have to swap out during WS, which is always a bonus.

You can't mean the blood mail... for what WS now?

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You can't mean the blood mail... for what WS now?

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http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Blood_Scale_Mail

With the right Augments, it is well suited toward Sanguine Blade. In the fixed Augments you could get STR. In the additional random Augments, you could get even more STR up to another 5, and/or MAB up to 8. If you get more MAB than Morrigan's then it would be better outright, because the highest scaling is off of INT, then MND, and last STR.

If they upgrade Morrigan's at some point, then it will be a fight to the death over who has the more ridiculous Augments.

If they add Haste to Morrigan's I would have such a hard time choosing between the 2 of them because I love how both of them look.

I hate the random pool augments :/ I have no luck with those at all. I'd probably try for MAB over Str but I get what you're saying. Even then I'd rather an upgrade to Morrigan's; not that I nuke demons much but the intimidate on legs alone has annoyed me on occaison if I forget Stearc Sub for space.

I found the intimidate useful back in the day for spotting who was casting cures in Wlegs, lol. It was always a pet peev of mine.

Thanks for reminding me I had a Pld trying to tanking Mahjlaef the Paintorn in W legs once before I told them take it off...