Rdm personal wishlist.

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10-29-2011, 02:23 AM
saevel

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

Of all the things to co-ordinate this would be the most useless.

Your opinion my opinion. I'll just leave it at that.

The benefit is so minimal, and the opportunity to use it elsewhere is so great that in all honestly you gotta be pretty power-gamey to even bother. We really are talking single digit percentages here.
10-29-2011, 03:47 PM
Shadowsong

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel

Well if I'm soloing or lowman / tanking (which amazing enough happens constantly now that I have CDC)

I feel very sorry for the DDs and Tanks you play with that you are pulling hate.
Come on guys, a crappy melee job using the one good ability it for some reason has access to OBVIOUSLY beats Ukon WARs and Verith MNKs
10-29-2011, 05:30 PM
Seriha

You might be on to something if enmity didn't cap. RDMs might not get there as quickly, especially on harder prey where their ATK deficiencies stand out, but to imply it's impossible, particularly in Abyssea where 3.5k+ CDCs are possible, is silly. Though, if you never let your RDMs leave the MH with a sub other than SCH, WHM, or BLM, I guess it's not surprising to never see it.
10-29-2011, 07:58 PM
saevel

It's just one of the BG trolls, I stirred em up in the BLU forums so their going on a little hate rampage. Spiking hate isn't that hard with temps and wings, spam CDC during the HV proc and keep a fanatics ready for afterwords. It's just part of being an extremely aggressive player, whether it's me on WAR, BLU, SAM, DRK or *ohh noes!!* RDM. Also many of the VWNM's have hate reset moves or altered hate decay, this could easily result in my having hate for a 30~40s period. Long enough for the PLD's to build up more hate, or the monster to kill me.

But yeah their from the land of "give me haste and a sandwitch b!***" viewpoints. Just click add to ignore, works better that way.
10-29-2011, 08:33 PM
Neisan_Quetz

You got called out for *** numbers, providing no proof to back them up, changing your claims from "Average damage" to "common enough when I have temps from HV stagger" and tried to run back here with your tail behind your legs after being proven wrong, don't get it confused.
10-29-2011, 10:41 PM
Greatguardian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seriha

You might be on to something if enmity didn't cap. RDMs might not get there as quickly, especially on harder prey where their ATK deficiencies stand out, but to imply it's impossible, particularly in Abyssea where 3.5k+ CDCs are possible, is silly. Though, if you never let your RDMs leave the MH with a sub other than SCH, WHM, or BLM, I guess it's not surprising to never see it.

Abyssea? He's talking about high tier Voidwatch. As in, claiming that his CDCs average higher than most high-tier WARs average on their Ukko's Fury, while obviously keeping hate over every other DD in his linkshell that should be dealing damage during Blitz too.

Either his entire linkshell positively sucks, which is indeed possible since they're letting the guy hammer away on high tier NMs as Rdm/Nin, or he's talking out of his ass. Honestly, it sounds like a bit of both. It wouldn't be the first (or second, or third...) time he's pulled random bullshit numbers up without ever posting any sort of proof, parse, or data set, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Protip: A CDC RDM will never outdamage an equally competent CDC PLD, through sheer lack of gear access. If CDC PLDs are losing hate for 40+ seconds, then they are either utterly terrible or he's full of shit no matter what way you slice it.
10-29-2011, 11:48 PM
Crimson_Slasher

Greatguardian, just a note, Seriha said "Particularly in abyssea" not "this is occuring in abyssea." It was a statement to how it could occur and where it can be seen at an extreme.

Aside from that, i dont have numbers, or proof, or records, so i could be wrong but... Wouldnt a CDC RDM (With gain str and temper) while /nin outdamage a CDC PLD if they were /war (and therefor have less DA before gear, and no offhand hit to improve the ws?) My logic would side with the rdm in that circumstance, both in TP gain, overall DOT and possibly WS damage. Not to mention a pld/war is not far out of the realm of reality. But i could be wrong, just my reasoning.
10-30-2011, 01:41 AM
Neisan_Quetz

Pld/war has better CDC gear, higher skill and zerk, pretty sure they still average higher than Rdm (overall damage is another thing but Prd is still pretty good on capped haste and can get extra tp from shield blocks, assuming they were tanking. if its fodder the Pld could just /nin as well bar ochain or something). Blu still averages higher than Rdm on CDC last I checked(except maybe outside and without VW gear/epona's/loki's - basically, wsing in what the rdm is).
10-30-2011, 09:06 AM
Lilia

i play rdm and pld long time and my rdm/dnc have higher CDC and i can easy outdmg my pld/war or pld/nin. But i must say i dont have ochain. Maybe with the tp from shieldblocks pld have more dmg. Maybe....

oh, i dont say i have more hate with rdm, pld hate is not only dmg. I only say my dmg with rdm is higher.
10-30-2011, 01:11 PM
saevel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Greatguardian, just a note, Seriha said "Particularly in abyssea" not "this is occuring in abyssea." It was a statement to how it could occur and where it can be seen at an extreme.

Aside from that, i dont have numbers, or proof, or records, so i could be wrong but... Wouldnt a CDC RDM (With gain str and temper) while /nin outdamage a CDC PLD if they were /war (and therefor have less DA before gear, and no offhand hit to improve the ws?) My logic would side with the rdm in that circumstance, both in TP gain, overall DOT and possibly WS damage. Not to mention a pld/war is not far out of the realm of reality. But i could be wrong, just my reasoning.

An extra off hand hit puts your potential damage cap higher. A PLD/WAR would have about the same DA as a Temper RDM for WSing, /WAR has 10% and brutal is another 5% and atheling is 3%, they might have another 2% or so in there somewhere. The difference comes with attack, a PLD is going to have higher natural attack by virtue of their slightly (26) higher skill. Also their WS gear is better then what a RDM has access to. To the RDM (and BLU)'s favor they have an off hand weapon, in my case I'm using the STR Shamshir+3 for +20 (25) attack and +10 STR. Toss in meat and temps and you can hit ridiculous attack which is why the RDM/NIN and BLU/NIN (or /DNC) would have higher average CDC's.

Plus these monsters often have hate reset maneuvers or altered hate mechanics. Hate isn't who dealt the most damage, it's who dealt the most damage recently. A Ukon WAR could go in there and do the exact same things and the results would be the same.
10-31-2011, 11:35 AM
Merton9999

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned my favorite use for our new ability: Spontaneity + Teleport-Altep when someone outlots me in a PUG.

Seriously though, the most interesting things I've done with it are MBing off my own RDM/BLU SCs when messing around soloing, and since I still do Abyssea often, getting that dead guy up in time to get the atma, and speeding up AM procs.

I agree with saevel's power-gamey comment. If I'm really going to get into the coordination of -ja stacking and am supposed to care about surprise MBs in parties, I'll put away the calculator until I can use it every 3-5 minutes. At ten minutes I just don't care.

Until then, I'm waiting for that perfect rage lot.
10-31-2011, 12:25 PM
Neisan_Quetz

Think you mean Spontaneity > Warp II.
10-31-2011, 02:18 PM
Ophannus

I do Spontaneity > Teleport-Yhoat when I'm outlotted because I don't have the Gate Crystal so it makes everyone else except me go byebye.
10-31-2011, 07:41 PM
saevel

Telling ya'll, my most recent usage seems to be in VWNM when ppl need raising. Really handy to assist in getting a bunch of people up after a NM decided to be a cheater. Saves the WHM lots of MP.
11-01-2011, 08:52 AM
Orenwald

I use Spontaneity in Abyssea so our BLM can trigger with Ancient Magic easier
11-04-2011, 10:09 AM
ManaKing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orenwald

I use Spontaneity in Abyssea so our BLM can trigger with Ancient Magic easier

That's all i use it for too, besides throwing Thunder 4 x 2.
11-04-2011, 11:44 PM
tyrantsyn

I'd like to see a reduction in the recast, before merits. I'd rather have this ability available every 5 minutes than 10, with a 10 second reduction per merit. The current timer leaves why too much separation between uses. And becomes another one of those "I'd rather save it, in case i need it" type of job abilities. Which hinders it's use.
11-05-2011, 01:55 AM
Merton9999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ophannus

I do Spontaneity > Teleport-Yhoat when I'm outlotted because I don't have the Gate Crystal so it makes everyone else except me go byebye.

You're my new hero, well as long as you stay on Siren :p Now If i could only find a way to dump a gate crystal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Think you mean Spontaneity > Warp II.

I guess with my normal sub choice that would be right but sometimes my rage requires the whole party to suffer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrantsyn

I'd like to see a reduction in the recast, before merits. I'd rather have this ability available every 5 minutes than 10, with a 10 second reduction per merit. The current timer leaves why too much separation between uses. And becomes another one of those "I'd rather save it, in case i need it" type of job abilities. Which hinders it's use.

Agreed. It currently has the "I better save it" feel, which plagued 2-hours for me before Abyssea cured me of that. A 5 minute base recast wouldn't hurt anything and would actually let me factor it into normal play.
11-05-2011, 04:20 AM
ManaKing

I wish that Spontaneity came with a MAB and/or MACC bonus so that at least if you botched it and QC a spell in FC gear, it wouldn't be a complete failure.

It would also give incentive to make people use it 'properly' or at all. I wouldn't begrudge having MAB on it as Merit option either.

As it stands, the recast time on it right now is absolute clown shoes.
11-09-2011, 01:28 PM
hideka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

If I had blm I wouldn't use Spontaneity very much, and only because I use Rdm for magian trials.

People still plan SCs? Although if I fixed a macro I could attempt that after seeing one.

ummm yes? sc's can be a huge potential damage out put if closed properly, a job like paladin, where our TP > Damage > Enmity gain will be absloutely miniscule, is extremely suited to setting up skillchains for various jobs. another one would be dancer and samurai since they ALWAYS have TP to burn.

my earnest hope is for the game to get back into SCing and MBing nms. easiest way for this to happen: increase Dropped treasure in porportion to the number of SC's done, or provide a prowess effect akin to the GOV bonuses the more you SC and MB.
11-09-2011, 08:08 PM
saevel

Actually our two LS paladins used to coordinate CDC -> CDC lights over vent, I paid attention and would time my Thunder IV's accordingly. Now one of them is on sabbatical while one of our semi-retired Xcal/Aegis PLD's returned it's a bit harder. Now adays I find myself being a member of quickly coordinated SC's.
11-09-2011, 08:42 PM
Neisan_Quetz

Pld... timed SC... someone check the date it feels like 2007 all over again.
11-09-2011, 09:08 PM
Daniel_Hatcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Pld... timed SC... someone check the date it feels like 2007 all over again.

You're too patronising... No wonder you levelled RDM.
11-09-2011, 09:09 PM
Neisan_Quetz

There is no greater amusement for me than this job.

And Ukko but BNS etc.
11-09-2011, 11:02 PM
cidbahamut

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideka

my earnest hope is for the game to get back into SCing and MBing nms. easiest way for this to happen: increase Dropped treasure in porportion to the number of SC's done, or provide a prowess effect akin to the GOV bonuses the more you SC and MB.

No. No more dumb proc gimmicks.
11-09-2011, 11:30 PM
Daniel_Hatcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by cidbahamut

No. No more dumb proc gimmicks.

Indeed.

If they want people to SC > MB they only have to make it worth actually doing and people will do it.
11-10-2011, 01:32 AM
Seriha

Or design mobs around the mechanic. Like if you inflict 5000 MB damage, for a short time an HNM would lose access to a particular TP move, ideally having some kind of visual cue that it's been weakened like a limp arm/wing/tail or something. Or doing enough could break off a piece a la ToAU mobs, affecting it in some way like taking more damage, doing less, dropping things it normally wouldn't, etc..
11-10-2011, 03:50 AM
ManaKing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seriha

Or design mobs around the mechanic. Like if you inflict 5000 MB damage, for a short time an HNM would lose access to a particular TP move, ideally having some kind of visual cue that it's been weakened like a limp arm/wing/tail or something. Or doing enough could break off a piece a la ToAU mobs, affecting it in some way like taking more damage, doing less, dropping things it normally wouldn't, etc..

Everyone can SC and/or Magic Burst. I don't see why SE hasn't put more emphasis on this. The ToAU mobs are actually fun to deal with, where as procing in aby just got old really quick.
11-10-2011, 06:31 AM
tyrantsyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideka

my earnest hope is for the game to get back into SCing and MBing nms. easiest way for this to happen: increase Dropped treasure in porportion to the number of SC's done, or provide a prowess effect akin to the GOV bonuses the more you SC and MB.

I love the idea of there being a bit of extra reward for executing a SC/MB bonus. If proc'ing isn't your thing or just something that doesn't float your boat. You could always look at it as a way to add in a momentary stun, loss of spell casting or the ability to block the use tp moves.
11-10-2011, 06:38 AM
Greatguardian

I don't see why SC/MB is important. If SE makes it worth doing, players will do it. If SE doesn't make it worth doing, players won't do it. If you don't give a crap about whether it's worth doing or not, do it because it's fun. If it's fun, you don't really need mega super awesome bonuses for doing it - you should be doing it because it's fun.

If you're really the only person around who wants to SC/MB for fun, maybe you should find people who share more of your interests. If that means the aurore brigade can't go out and kill Kaggen, who cares? At least they'll be having fun SC'ing and MB'ing whatever they want.

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