Gob Sack

Having a separate inventory for each type of equipment would be nice, but I imagine that it'd be even more complicated than to adjust macros and add a new inventory type using the new macro function. If that's the only way this could work though, it'd be just as fine in the long run.

The main idea I had was that you could use /equip1 and /equip2 for the Gobbie Bag and Gob Sack respectively, for the sake of simplicity. That would be another increase of 80 inventory slots, which I know a lot of people wouldn't mind having. Changing macros to work like this but for the Mog Satchel and Sack would be just as good, utilizing /equip2 and /equip3. If it could work, it'd be an easy adjustment to any existing macros and allow for better preparation in terms of what you can equip during battle.

If you want me to be perfectly honest, my biggest concern would be Spellcast compatibility with the new /equip system. That might take nearly as much coding as the change SE has to make, coming from a significantly smaller and unpaid staff.

... seriously? Posting on the official forum over your concern for a 3rd party program? lol.

I hope the 3rd party tool spellcast goes obsolete very quickly.

add new commands to move item sack/satchel <=> bag (without opening windows client side).

i dont think the equip2 is as simple to code as you think because equiping gears is not just moving item from bag to equipment list: equiped gears are still in bag with an "equiped" tag (can't move them)

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Originally Posted by Swords

Well here's an offshot idea. We currently know that it's impossible to expand the current gobbie bag beyond 80 do to coding limitations, but what if they were developed into a organizational sub-bag type architecture, by breaking up the bag into smaller sections.

Essentially everything in your Gobbie bag would be broken up into categories like med's/food/head/body/feet/misc items/etc. Each of these categories would be treated like it's own individual bag up to 80 slots. The Macro's behavioral programming might have to be adjusted somewhat to address the change, but depending on how it's setup SE wouldn't likely have to worry too much.

But, that's just a random thought that might work.

EDIT: I didn't read past the first few posts btw, so if someone already posted a similar idea I apologize in advance.

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Isn't the technicality of it that it can't go past 99, don't know about you but I'd be fine with 99 inventory.

Perhaps, I mostly threw that out there because of the technical limitations preventing inventory slots from going beyond 80. I thought it might be able to circumvent the mechanics and limitations by breaking up everything and treating each category as it's own psudo-gob bag.

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Originally Posted by Amador

... seriously? Posting on the official forum over your concern for a 3rd party program? lol.

I hope the 3rd party tool spellcast goes obsolete very quickly.

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If people insist on making a big fuss about it, I'm sure the GMs will just delete the post. I was just hoping people would be mature enough to discuss the very relevant topic like adults. So far, that seems the case, so I don't think there was anything wrong in my assumption.

As for Spellcast going obsolete, that's never going to happen. If they were to introduce /equip1 and /equip2 into the game, they still wouldn't be worth using by the PC playerbase until Spellcast compatibility was added.

As for the 80 inventory limit, yes that is a technical issue. They cannot expand our inventory beyond 80 slots per "space". They can give us more sacks, server space allowing, but they can't expand our inventory beyond 80 slots.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Yes but people really don't need more room for gear. The problem is actually picking out the stuff you need from a list that's completely unorganized. It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

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Advanced players need more space for ALL of the situational gear the devs keep cranking out... its all about builds (tp idle ws etc) if u haven't noticed...

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

If you want me to be perfectly honest, my biggest concern would be Spellcast compatibility with the new /equip system. That might take nearly as much coding as the change SE has to make, coming from a significantly smaller and unpaid staff.

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The location of an item is known to the PC client, or can be found very quickly at least (real time), which means every item must be stored locally somewhere. Which means, it could be made to just find the right location at runtime (or even keep its own memory), and then adjust the /equip command accordingly.

The only problem would be, due to the retarded augment system, that different items with same names can exist. Usually you can just leave identically named items in different spaces, to avoid mix-ups, but this would make it harder. On the other hand, especially with SpellCast, you could work around that, if they allowed you to look in certain spaces specifically. So you could specify to equip Indra's staff from /sack, for lightning damage affinity, and from /satchel for lightning accuracy affinity.

Something like:
<if skill="enfeebling">
<main inv="satchel">$%SpellElementAccuracyStaff</main>
</if>
<elseif skill="elemental|dark">
<main inv="sack">$%SpellElementDamageStaff</main>
</elseif>

This would only work if you had different staves (or multiple staves) in each location. If you use Lv.51 elemental staves, you could do something else, like store the right location for the staff in a variable. Either way, it would still be advantageous to use SpellCast over normal macros.

I wish Windower was obsolete, I wish SE would make the game playable by themselves. But I don't think that goal is within either their capabilities, or desires, which would be even worse. They seem to be quite happy where they are, which is a crying shame, because the game, from a technical standpoint, is horrible.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

If people insist on making a big fuss about it, I'm sure the GMs will just delete the post. I was just hoping people would be mature enough to discuss the very relevant topic like adults. So far, that seems the case, so I don't think there was anything wrong in my assumption.

As for Spellcast going obsolete, that's never going to happen. If they were to introduce /equip1 and /equip2 into the game, they still wouldn't be worth using by the PC playerbase until Spellcast compatibility was added.

As for the 80 inventory limit, yes that is a technical issue. They cannot expand our inventory beyond 80 slots per "space". They can give us more sacks, server space allowing, but they can't expand our inventory beyond 80 slots.

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Don't derail this thread into a pathetic windower/spell cast discussion.

What's the point in playing a game when you have a little robot doing it all for you?

Your play style is just a copy of what some other cheater is doing. Instead of taking time to make your own macros and play them by your own hand as they should be you're just having someone else hand you over an xml. file to help you play just the same way they play.

How do you discuss cheating as an adult when that in it's own is kid stuff?

I've been a PC player since this game was released, and I have never felt the need to mess with 3rd party tools to help me play. I'm not the only person who feels this way about windower either. It's cheat tool plain and simple.

They did add a Windowed version of the game. A legit version. So as an adult, don't sugar coat the obvious face it for what it is. Cheats are cheats.

Edit Reason: Man and as an add on. They're barely considering ditching PS2, IF at all that survey was in regards to that. You think they're going to worry about some 3rd party tool creators?

"Due to spellcast limitations, we cannot implement this feature." gtfo.

The point of this topic isn't about Spellcast or otherwise, it's about a new inventory and using a new macro function to utilize this new space well. If they implemented it, I'm sure they would add an on or off function, turning the Gob Sack into a standard extra inventory space and making it so that old macro commands would work normally.

Or they could use /equip for the Gobbie Bag, and /equipgs for the second inventory. I doubt they would go out of their way to completely ruin an existing system, and that's not my intention either. I simply feel that it would be the best way to enhance the macro system enough for players to be able to equip whatever they need to under whatever circumstance.

This is one of the better ideas that i've seen on here. Even if they just made it so the Mog Sack could be used to hold consumables like pet food, jug pets, nin tools, ammo, etc. Maybe, just to keep it from being overly abused, allow the players to be able to access items from their Mog Sack that would only be used from the ammo/ranged slot. Being a longtime BST and more recently, a NIN, i have like 30 slots taken up by pet food, jug pets, and now ninja tools. I haven't capped my Ninjitsu skills yet, so I still use the standard tools. It would be nice to have a satchel or backpack of some kind that would allow us to use consumable items via macro's. Just restrict the kinds of items to ranged/ammo/tools to keep it from being abused.

I'm all for this. I don't even carry anything but sneak, invis and utsusemi tools when I'm not on ninja. Too much friggin inventory taken. If SE can't figure this out, they should hire one of those guys over at Windower or w/e to do it for them.

I'm glad to hear such great feedback about my idea! I feel it would be more useful than anything else they could update for players. Swapping items in and out of the Gobbie Bag can be a hassle when things are chaotic. I can barely fit Echo Drops let alone any ether I may want to carry for Voidwatch.

It's a shame we can't bring this idea over to the JP community as well. I wonder what their thoughts are regarding the matter.

It would be nice if this forum implemented some type of universal auto translate feature, and a poll system which could be directed to both JP/NA/GE/FR speaking players.

This really does deserve some looking into. Inventories just aren't enough, we need to be able to utilize the items we work hard to get! So much is very useful, and we're limited drastically. Could there be an answer regarding if the dev team may have something that is at least similar to this?

Not sure if it has been said, but since this is sort of an inventory-based thread, make gear that you actually have equipped not take up your inventory space. Seriously, why does my breastplate take up space in my backpack if I am wearing it?

Overall finding a way to overcome the incredibly limiting inventory would be grand. My Blue Mage for example has 76 pieces of gear in my main inventory at all times. I have another 40-50 pieces of gear that I am unable to use due to inventory constraints that sit rotting in my mock sack, and when I need those gear sets I have to make concessions and store other gear sets in said mog sack in order to swap the required gear over.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Not sure if it has been said, but since this is sort of an inventory-based thread, make gear that you actually have equipped not take up your inventory space. Seriously, why does my breastplate take up space in my backpack if I am wearing it?

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Imagine the joy of not being able to ungear (or job change) because there's no room in your inventory. SE's solution would be to drop items that don't fit in it.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Seriously, why does my breastplate take up space in my backpack if I am wearing it?

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Because your character isn't naked when you wear 'nothing'? Notice how equiped items become greyed out? That's actually the default gear. Since it has no name ingame, it takes the name of the item that replaced it! It's really the phantom gear that occupies the slot now!

For a more logical reason, check Arcon's reply...

why not just make the Mog sack into a "Items group two"

Commands Menu---
-Status
-Equipment
-Magic
-Items One ---- 80/80
-Items Two ---- 80/80
-Abilities
-ect...

It would be like having 160 inventory slots on the fly and giving us access to both of them, It would just be splitting it up into two groups, also removing it from the View House menu "Mog Sack" also giving us access for those items to work w/in macros. Doing it this way doesn't seem to much of a difficulty. :D

That would be nice, and they could use the same macro adjustments or something similar to what I've said to make it work. I don't really believe it would be too difficult to add.

Would be lovely to hear something in regards to an idea either player suggested or something the devs have in regards to this. It would make the use of the current macro system not feel so outdated. It'd be a refreshing hassle free improvement.

So any new thoughts or information regarding a possible implementation of this type of system; or a similar improvement to allow more accessibility to better utilizing our inventory space, macros, and equipment selection due to the growing increase of situational based gear being released soon in December 2011-March 2012?

If you ever do NOT need more room for your gear then you either are just a dual boxed whm or are doing it wrong. We need more slots or this system implemented.

No kidding. At a certain point, the rise of levels also meant being able to store away and forget about old gear.

Now with the new updates around the corner they're making that old gear situational, and or better to use then certain pieces.

If they continue down the path or recycling old gear, making it better then we'll need a lot more than 80 slots.

Being able to equip this gear from other 2 inventories and or a special inventory would be tremendous and really help out true career players.

I support this. Even if they made it so the Mog Sack was accessible through macros, I'd support that feature too.

I have almost no room because of my black mage, and I'm still missing pieces...

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Originally Posted by Meyi

I support this. Even if they made it so the Mog Sack was accessible through macros, I'd support that feature too.

I have almost no room because of my black mage, and I'm still missing pieces...

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That was the whole point behind my ideas. Even if they used the already existing Mog Sack and Satchel, it would be a huge improvement over only being able to use macros from the Gobbie Bag. The Gob Sack thing is just another form of inventory so that we can have yet another 80 inventory spaces per character.

Being dedicated to one or a few jobs can be really demanding on inventory space, and this seems like the only real solution to be able to macro in everything you would want or need to.

I also found myself not using monk anymore because it would mean i have to buy all elemental tools and still have to carry TP-WS-PDT or MDT-EVA-Chakra gear.....
Solution: i main ninja now :/

I support this.

It's pretty difficult and time consuming setting up gear swaps on the fly when, you play multiple classes and they hog all your inventory spots.

I support this as well.

Seriously, if SE implemented something like this, the game would become so gear dependent and leetists would make me want to quit a game I love and have played almost since the initial NA release without anything more than maybe a 1 or 2 week break (because I'm on vacation somewhere). I gear swap too, but the balance to allowing us to do that is probably limiting our inventory space. We have to make decisions as to what we need for a particular battle.

I know this isn't going to win me a popularity contest, but come on.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

Seriously, if SE implemented something like this, the game would become so gear dependent and leetists would make me want to quit a game I love and have played almost since the initial NA release without anything more than maybe a 1 or 2 week break (because I'm on vacation somewhere). I gear swap too, but the balance to allowing us to do that is probably limiting our inventory space.

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No, the PS2 is, SE said so themselves. How is it not gear dependant already? How would it make it worse? Seems like a bunch of groundless assumptions. And even if it was true, why would they make the game hell for you?

Fine the PS2 is, that's not the main point of my argument though. I'm a THF mainly. I've gone through the phases of "Do you have TH gear? You must wear it at all times", etc.

Gear swapping was not part of the original design of the game. It's an overlooked side effect to the original coding and they won't fix it, but they certainly shouldn't make it even easier for you to do. My feeling is that if your gameplay is that gear dependent, that might be one reason creatures like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden weren't taken out before the Lv75 cap was increased.

I gear swap, I do, but I don't need more than 80 slots to play and play well.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

I gear swap, I do, but I don't need more than 80 slots to play and play well.

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Poor argument, just because you don't optimize your character at all times doesn't mean others don't.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

Seriously, if SE implemented something like this, the game would become so gear dependent and leetists would make me want to quit a game I love and have played almost since the initial NA release without anything more than maybe a 1 or 2 week break (because I'm on vacation somewhere). I gear swap too, but the balance to allowing us to do that is probably limiting our inventory space. We have to make decisions as to what we need for a particular battle.

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My reasoning behind this idea isn't to be an elitist though, it's about being the best player you can be on a game that has a lot of challenging things to do. I'm sure a lot of people that have been playing for years have a lot of equipment to show for their time and effort, and not being able to use it well is a terrible setback to the game.

As WHM being my main job, I have to be versatile in everything I do. I can't just carry around a Cure Potency set and call it a day, I have to be ready to use Enhancing, Enfeebling, Divine and other types of magic which require specific pieces of equipment. I'm not even able to change off of WHM to another job easily because of how demanding the inventory space for my main job is. If anything, this idea would make playing a lot easier for a lot of people, maybe even more enjoyable and less stressful as well.

All of the newer content post Lv.75 has required that players be able to adapt to the situation as many monsters have special attacks that require necessary preparation, be it equipment, or items and ninja tools. Having to carry around over ten ninjutsu tools at all times is a hassle, and that goes for those subbing NIN as well.

Arguing that this isn't a good idea because you don't personally need the extra inventory space or macro adjustments isn't really fair. You say you're on THF most of the time, and list your main job as PUP. You have two jobs, as opposed to people that have been playing for over five years and have 10 or 15 jobs leveled to 95. Over all that time, it's likely that these veteran players have obtained a lot of equipment. There's AF+1, AFII+1, AFIII+2, Limbus, Salvage, Einherjar, Sky and Sea, Abjuration, and Voidwatch equipment. The list goes on and a lot of it is definitely situational.

Most importantly to remember is that the update is coming soon and that's going to have AFII+2 gear. They'll never stop adding equipment, because that's what keeps people motivated to play. Being able to macro it on even if it's in your Mog Sack or Satchel would be efficient and benefit all players, overall.

Didn't even notice PUP was being listed as my main job. I've been away awhile from the forums, so I haven't figured out all the new settings yet. I also have PLD to Lv90 (I work 8-12 hour days and sometimes 7 days a week, so anymore, I can't play hardcore like I used to).

My point was that the inventory space limitations is another form of balance. If we could just have access to all the best gear available all the time for all situations, it kind of forces us all into a cookie cutter gear set and play style in order to win.

I feel the same way when I see people say "you have to be this job with these jobs in order to kill this NM." Is that because they designed it that way or is it because we just aren't planning our strategies well enough with what we have available to us? I would argue that 9 times out of 10, it's the latter.

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfinger

Poor argument, just because you don't optimize your character at all times doesn't mean others don't.

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Poor argument. Plenty of people didn't want SE to change the minimum level requirement for Abyssea either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened. I mean, if you can take a job from Lv30 to Lv75 or higher in less than 24 hours, why not just create a Moogle that asks "What level do you want to be?" and get "the grind" over with. I'm guessing you wouldn't want that either because it'd be absurd.

If you need more than 80 gear pieces in order to be successful in a battle in this game, you're doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

Poor argument. Plenty of people didn't want SE to change the minimum level requirement for Abyssea either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened. I mean, if you can take a job from Lv30 to Lv75 or higher in less than 24 hours, why not just create a Moogle that asks "What level do you want to be?" and get "the grind" over with. I'm guessing you wouldn't want that either because it'd be absurd.

If you need more than 80 gear pieces in order to be successful in a battle in this game, you're doing something wrong.

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Actually his argument was spot on.

Just because you can main heal on WHM with no gear on doesn't mean that it's a good idea, or even fun for that matter.

SE put macros in the game (as they should have), and using them means having gear to use them with.

If you don't want to change gear for the situation, that's your prerogative, But the bulk of the community wants to swap into the best gear possible for each action they perform. That means we need a way to access that gear. Making and using macros is as much of a challenge as anything else in the game, and just as much a part of it. Frankly if you are bad at gear swap macros, then on at least some level, you are not good at the game.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

Poor argument. Plenty of people didn't want SE to change the minimum level requirement for Abyssea either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have happened. I mean, if you can take a job from Lv30 to Lv75 or higher in less than 24 hours, why not just create a Moogle that asks "What level do you want to be?" and get "the grind" over with. I'm guessing you wouldn't want that either because it'd be absurd.

If you need more than 80 gear pieces in order to be successful in a battle in this game, you're doing something wrong.

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Explain to me how I'm doing it wrong by having say 70+ pieces of equipment?

Apart from the obvious TP & WS sets there's a magnitude of other sets I carry around to be well, optimial, which in turn is kinder on the healers.

Let's say I'm on Samurai:

I have +50 Enmity for Provoke - easy to figure out why.

I have +200 for Barfire, and with a properly equipped Bar spell set mage I can reach over 350, handy for tanking things like Tiamat or Orthrus if I'm in Abysea.

MDT set so I always take -50% of the damage taken (with Shellra V), also some MDB to negate that further.

PDT -50% for nasty TP moves, or if Third Eye is down.

Then there's stuff like the Meditate, Sekkanoki gear.

Edit: I forgot to mention I can exceed that amount of gear quite easily on NIN seeing as I'd have to carry Ninjutsu tools, Nuking set and additional weapons if I'm in Abyssea for proc.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

If you need more than 80 gear pieces in order to be successful in a battle in this game, you're doing something wrong.

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Yes, thankfully no one argued that. Well, except you just now. Not sure who you're talking to. But some people tend to talk to themselves on here, so I'll just go with it.

What we're trying to do here is implement an idea of how we as a player base can better use our current "Mog Sack" and "Mog Satchel" or even implement the idea of a "Gob Sack" which allows us to utilize gear, items, potentially magic and abilities that requires item use such as Ninjitsu,Tomahawk, Angon, and Elemental Cards as well as any other such item without the need of having it in the main inventory.

In example: /equip2 head "Twilight Head" /item2 "Massive Armband" <t> /ma "Tonko: Ni" <me> /item2 "Antidote" <me>
Regardless of which way it's implemented, it will be extremely beneficial, and allow ways of character development beyond a gear perspective, medicines are very underused in this game. That is something that would promote the use of them best being able to actually have the inventory to do so.

This will allow for better organization. As this game progresses, level 99 is reached, new expansions, new trials, and items are released we will need more inventory access. If you look at a majority of equipment, it's not always right to have it on 100% of the time because it is not ideal. Macros allow us to use our abilities best, acquire TP faster, WS harder, WS safer, be more offensive, or defensive. Everything calls for different means.

It's not about being hardcore, or an elite player. It's about developing your character so that even when you're low on playtime you can do things quickly because you have the means to do so. So what we want is to be able to use what we have available to us in a legitimate manner.

You are not forced in anyway to use macros or to play the way that others do. If you choose and find a certain play style you are happy with by all means enjoy. However, for those of us who like macro extensive play as is found in many MMOs, RTS games, and Shooters, we would like the ability to do more with what we have, with what we've worked hard to obtain.

"Is that because they designed it that way or is it because we just aren't planning our strategies well enough with what we have available to us?" -Leaderofatlantis

This right here is what we're trying to accomplish. We're trying to utilize what we have available to us in order to be better players. It's not that they have designed it this way, it's that it's a limitation. Therefore, this quote is false because we have been using what is available to us in gear swaps however demanding to make things work. Without macro swapping, and utilizing ideal gear for specific situations we wouldn't be able to get by a lot of battles.

I urge you revise, what you have stated in your posts and you rethink what you have said. As what we are trying to do in this thread is a means to find a way to show the devs what a good idea it would be to better utilize our inventories. As your character develops, you will find that THF, PLD and PUP are very equipment, and very macro dependent jobs.

Whether your current skill as a player allows you to see it now or later, it's something you will eventually find is very useful, and allows and broadens the way you plan your battles.

This is an old game. Providing mechanisms in the game that encourage people to collect (and use) more gear benefits the longevity of the game. I'm all for that.