A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

It's a special case. No other DD is still forced to use a level 70 weapon. Their old weapons were obsolete'd by new better weapons. Anyone who saw Thief's knife was getting an upgrade and was like "I WANT MAH DESTOYORZ UPGRAEDED" probably actually talks like that.

EDIT: I just wanna repeat that I would join the taliban and cut peoples heads off if they implemented anything even close to that BC idea.

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I Mirror this sentiment.

The problem with comparing it to other ~70 Weapons is no other DD-job is forced to melee in an outdated weapon because it helps the job, all of them have gotten upgrades to those weapons in generally every field. There is not a single other comparison. This weapon is forced in our hands rather we like it or not. Unless they impose a Treasure Hunter Limit from Equipment of +1/+2 (I.E hands + Feet, so weapon is free) There is no other solution outside of upgrading it to make it useful enough. (note i said Solution: ignoring it is not a solution <_>)

If you're joining us now, I'm not asking for it to become god of weapons, Only that its more powerful than it is now. I.e Respectable. Any intelligent Thief who's not trying to play devil's advocate will tell you that they feel Thief's Knife needs an upgrade if we're going to be forced to continue to use it.

Truthfully, I have a few options)

1) Upgrade Thief's Knife. Via Synergy, or Trial of the Magians, or some other Quest (perhaps a tie in to the end of the THF AF quests). Make it difficult if you have too, but try not to make it involve camping a new NM or something similar. I.E if you're going to make it "Get xxx drop" have "xxx drop" drop from multiple enemies, Lots of them. Preferably not in dungeons.

2) Create a new level 90 Weapon that shares a name with Thief's Knife, allowing you to only hold/own one (is it possible?)

3) Impose a +TH Cap from gear to +1 or +2.

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I like options 1/2, Option 3 is a last resort.

Edit: As mentioned before, Zoraal Ja's Axe (Lvl70 Reward+10%) is the closest comparison i can think of when it comes to an outdated weapon being useful, But its not so much forced in their hands, more of preference.

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons. We could just extend this to everyone, really. This would open some new cool gameplay tactics, and it certainly fixes the TK curse.

Another thing i just thought of lol: make it so we don't need to equip TH+ shit to get the effect. Could maybe make it so we get the boosts while we have the items in our bag. Insta fix~

1-to hell with doing a BCM for a .25% chance at getting drop, gfy.

2-Thief's knife is a 100% drop, but if you tried to farm the damn pop item for Sozu, you'll quickly realize it is not 100% drop.

3-Synergy isnt as bad as you're making it out to be...it could follow suit to how all the abjus and sky gear gets upgraded. Trade Knife + X item, attempt synergy, get result. If you dont like the result, you trade that knife + X item, and you try again.

4-regarding "overpowered lv70 knives", I dont tihnk it would be difficult to add a level restriction, like so
Thief's knife RARE EX
(Dagger) All Races
DMG: 28 Delay: 194
"Treasure Hunter" +1
Lv. 90: DMG+10 Delay-15 Triple Attack +3
Lv. 70 THF

Up the weapon level and give it a newer name (TK+1?), no big deal. Theres already armor restrictions preventing certain gear to be equipped (novennial stuff, cloaks and headwear, attempting to DW without a main weapon), preventing both TK's to be equipped should be easy.

Magian trials would work as well, since it would keep all TK's equal. I dont think the level really matters since I doubt any thf would sync down to farm stuff?

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Originally Posted by Laphine

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons.

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Yeah I rememeber that post and the poster got laughed off the boards...I believe it was Kingfury...

My best weapon for my Lv90 Cor is Lv51. Can I get an upgrade to my Vulcan's Staff as well then?

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Originally Posted by noodles355

No one's forcing you to use Thief Knife.

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You join any decent LS your butt is going to be required to hit everything with your max TH, or you'll be replaced with someone who can/has higher TH. So yes, If you want to play THF in a LS Environment, You're going to be forced to wear that weapon, or you'll be replaced.

so if you don't want to be "Forced to wear it", its do everything alone, or switch jobs, Both i don't feel acceptable.

So i get it, you don't agree with the idea, thats great, but you've said your piece, you've voiced your opinion, and i respect that, Now you're just causing unnecessary trouble. So can you kindly not derail this thread further?

Thank you for understanding. If you actually have something to contribute, feel free to continue posting.

Edit: You edited your post, I feel I'll keep this here though.

Edit2: Fixed stuff, And wanted to say, I like your idea Nynja, Very much so. I'll add it to the OP.

Tell me whats so bad about using your treasure hunter set for the first few hits and then switching to tp gear, so you lose a lil tp its no biggie thf gets mad tp from triple attack and double attack gear/traits. Really I dont see what the issue is. When farming in abyssea i dont even switch gear unless on a nm because they die so fast with the atmas i have equiped, and outside abyssea its almost the same unless its a NM and guess what im not loosing sleep over he 30tp i waste when i change to tp gear from treasure hunter after the first few hits.

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

Tell me whats so bad about using your treasure hunter set for the first few hits and then switching to tp gear, so you lose a lil tp its no biggie thf gets mad tp from triple attack and double attack gear/traits. Really I dont see what the issue is. When farming in abyssea i dont even switch gear unless on a nm because they die so fast with the atmas i have equiped, and outside abyssea its almost the same unless its a NM and guess what im not loosing sleep over he 30tp i waste when i change to tp gear from treasure hunter after the first few hits.

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If you don't know why losing 10~90 TP just to switch weapons, and you don't know how significantly that impacts your damage, let alone how significantly using a THF's knife impacts your damage, I cannot help you or explain it well enough, thusly i will no try.

However do understand, Every THF hear realizes, on longer fights, You can easily hit a Mob and put on full TH, then take the Knife off, the problem is Farming in places like Dynamis or Limbus where every single mob you'll want your fullest TH on, and switching on/off the knife before every kill/fight is where a problem comes in.

Yes, I removed forced to wear it comment after reading a previous post of yours.

And I've said my piece? Derailing? How is it derailing if i provide a counter argument, or reasoning as to why this wont happen? Did I ever say "I don't want it to be upgradeable"? Please quote me where I said I disagree with upgrading it and I dont want it upgraded.

What's that? You can't find it? Mayhaps it's because I didn't write it. Good job on making an incorrect assumption through failing to read. I said it wont happen (not that I don't want it to) because other jobs will ask for other lower weapons to be upgradeable.

What about my Cor's Vulcan's Staff or Joyeuse or Mkris? When commenting on my previous post you just so happened to miss that out. It's awesome to debate a retracted point that has already been discussed but ignore the main reason of the post.

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And I've said my piece? Derailing? How is it derailing if i provide a counter argument, or reasoning as to why this wont happen?

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1) Is how you go about "Providing the counter argument" sarcasm and abrasiveness/rude posts. You're making negative tones, rather you see it or not. Your methods are the problem not your message. Surely you see this.

2) Theres a difference between "I want my x weapon to be upgraded, Even though theres already upgrades to it" and "This weapon is gimp and theres no way to replace it, can we upgrade it".

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Did I ever say "I don't want it to be upgradeable"? Please quote me where I said I disagree with upgrading it and I dont want it upgraded.

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Arguing against something you want, whats your angle? Why be the negative Nancy of the thread? We know what we're asking is a longshot, but we also feels its plausible.

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What's that? You can't find it? Mayhaps it's because I didn't write it. Good job on making an incorrect assumption through failing to read.

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I'm actually pretty happy You said this, this is the rude abrasiveness Fire-starting BS i was talking about when i asked you not to derail, thanks for saving me the trouble of digging up examples, As you just made one in this very post.

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I said it wont happen

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K, You said what you wanted too. At this points its not a counter argument to the OP, its you making angry posts because i offended you.

This is not a productive area of discussion, Nothing will come of this. Surely you can see that too?

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What about my Cor's Vulcan's Staff or Joyeuse or Mkris? When commenting on my previous post you just so happened to miss that out. It's awesome to debate a retracted point that has already been discussed but ignore the main reason of the post.

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Despite this being another example of your "Firestarting rude" Attitude problem.

We're not asking to upgrade old weapons that are still useable into great weapons, We're asking to upgrade a bad weapon We're still forced to wear on the job, so that it doesn't hurt us any further than it needs too.

To try and clarify, Thief's Knife is both Useless and forced in our hand.

Mkris, Joyeuse, and Vulcans are not. These are different examples, as i am not a cor, I can't speak if these weapons are replaced by now, However, None of these weapons are forced in your hand by your linkshell in order to play your job. There is a large difference between those weapons being outdated, and a Weapon thats meant for 70 still forced in our hands at 90 to 99.

We want Thieves' knife because we're still forced to wear it. there is no upgrade to it, there is nothing better to equip for Treasure hunter. Even if there was, it would be a case of "Main hand new Weapon off hand THF knife". Its an outdated weapon we are indeed forced to wear if we want to be on THF.

Again, not a problem on 1 NM fights, a Big problem on Mass farming/Dynamis/Limbus style events

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Originally Posted by Laphine

i liked a sugestion that went in the general manifesto thread some time ago (i think). Someone thought of a trait for war that it would not lose tp when swapping weapons. We could just extend this to everyone, really. This would open some new cool gameplay tactics, and it certainly fixes the TK curse.

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Equip multihitter. Get TP. Equip high damage weapon. Use WS. Repeat.

Dual wield would get a massive nerf if this happened. Two-handed weapons would be insanely overpowered.

There are a lot of neat things you could do with this, but in the end, the game isn't balanced around this at all.

They need to cap Treasure Hunter from gear at +2, and then add Treasure Hunter +1 to all of the final stage Magian Daggers. That would eliminate the need for TK, and people could have a range of choices to use.

Maybe make the trial a side branch with requirements of killing 500 THF type mobs while having Treasure Hunter of a certain level in effect.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

My best weapon for my Lv90 Cor is Lv51. Can I get an upgrade to my Vulcan's Staff as well then?

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Does the weapon DMG and Delay play a factor? No...then its fine as is. Though I was expecting someone to bring up weapons like that...

I was hoping to not go the nerf route (Limiting it to +2 from gear), However if thats the only solution they'll give us, i'd take it.

I'd like to avoid nerfs though if possible :X

I don't really see it as a Nerf, you can still build it up fairly easy. Maybe they could just adjust the likelihood of increase at lower levels to compensate.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I don't really see it as a Nerf, you can still build it up fairly easy. Maybe they could just adjust the likelihood of increase at lower levels to compensate.

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Well, Perhaps, I think it would solve the entire problem in the shortest amount of time...

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

1) Is how you go about "Providing the counter argument" sarcasm and abrasiveness/rude posts. You're making negative tones, rather you see it or not. Your methods are the problem not your message. Surely you see this.

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Irrelevant to the point. Up until that post there was no rude messages. I stated other jobs would want the same, and then I stated that I want my vulcan's staff upgraded on Cor. Any abrassiveness afterwards was a response to your "go away" post.

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2) Theres a difference between "I want my x weapon to be upgraded, Even though theres already upgrades to it" and "This weapon is gimp and theres no way to replace it, can we upgrade it".

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There's upgrades to it through other means - non multi-attack weapons with boosts like snapshot or MaB. There is no high level multi-attack weapon for cor melee. It's a weapon who's purpose (multi-attacking for fast TP gain) hasn't been replaced by something that does the same, like TK.

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Arguing against something you want, whats your angle? Why be the negative Nancy of the thread? We know what we're asking is a longshot, but we also feels its plausible.

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It's called playing the Devil's Advocate. Why get your hopes up for something that wont happen? Get over it and move on or look for solutions that are plausible. Don't hang onto your first idea so tightly.

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I'm actually pretty happy You said this, this is the rude abrasiveness Fire-starting BS i was talking about when i asked you not to derail, thanks for saving me the trouble of digging up examples, As you just made one in this very post.

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Your last post said stop derailing, suggresting i had before the last post. There was no previous derailing or flaming. All of this you provoke by accusing me of causing trouble when all I did was provide a reason why this wont happen (thus, you should look for another means).

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K, You said what you wanted too. At this points its not a counter argument to the OP, its you making angry posts because i offended you.

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No, it's me giving you the reason SE wont implament this. It's looking at both sides of the argument to try and understand if it is plausible or not. Then it's you insinuating that I'm trolling and derailing when I make a valid point, just because it's against your idea.

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This is not a productive area of discussion, Nothing will come of this. Surely you can see that too?

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It's not a productive area of discussion? The one single reason it won't be implamented? Nothing will come of it in regards to SE adding this option, sure. But nothing will come of this whole post for that means for the reason I stated.

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Despite this being another example of your "Firestarting rude" Attitude problem.

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From the person who misinterpreted a previous completely civil post and started this whole thing?

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We're not asking to upgrade old weapons that are still useable into great weapons, We're asking to upgrade a bad weapon We're still forced to wear on the job, so that it doesn't hurt us any further than it needs too.

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People gimp themselves for the greater good of the LS all the time. And I know what you're asking for, however the simple fact is that it's still asking for one single pre76 weapon to be upgraded.

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To try and clarify, Thief's Knife is both Useless and forced in our hand.

Mkris, Joyeuse, and Vulcans are not. These are different examples, as i am not a cor, I can't speak if these weapons are replaced by now, However, None of these weapons are forced in your hand by your linkshell in order to play your job. There is a large difference between those weapons being outdated, and a Weapon thats meant for 70 still forced in our hands at 90 to 99.

We want Thieves' knife because we're still forced to wear it. there is no upgrade to it, there is nothing better to equip for Treasure hunter. Even if there was, it would be a case of "Main hand new Weapon off hand THF knife". Its an outdated weapon we are indeed forced to wear if we want to be on THF.

Again, not a problem on 1 NM fights, a Big problem on Mass farming/Dynamis/Limbus style events

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As much as I do agree I would like to see a replacement for TK, I just can't see SE doing it. There is already means to increase TH beyond what Thf Knife gave through AF3 Feet and lvl up procs. If they upgrade thief knife they will be forced to make everything upgradeable.

I'm not against making everything upgradeable with synergy augments. But it shouldn't just be for TK. If you want a boost for TK that the dev team will concider, then you should either ask for 2 new daggers that have TH+1 on it (you can't equip 3 daggers so TK would be replaced) or ask for the option to upgrade any old weapon.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

If they upgrade thief knife they will be forced to make everything upgradeable.

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Based on what? TK is a weapon that is used for its extra stats, NOT for its dmg or delay, but its dmg and delay becomes a factor in thf dmg. You cant compare TK to joyeuse or MKris...because you arent using those weapons for dmg, but for TP gain...and if you were using it for DMG you'd use different weapons. You're not using a Vulcan Staff for DMG or Delay, you're not even trying to melee with it, you're using it for the STR+5 and Ratk+15.

And you want some "upgrades" to your Vulcan Staff?
Sagasinger is cor usable and comes with STR+15
The lv89 dagger (acainaces?) comes with Snapshot

Cant have everything in one weapon, nor are we asking for everything on TK. Were just asking if its dmg/delay can be made more respectible, and maybe an extra goodie or two.

Edit: I have a Better idea. Time to activate the SEOFRUILBF. Pointless flame wars are simply best ignored.

(Not you Nynja)

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I was hoping to not go the nerf route (Limiting it to +2 from gear), However if thats the only solution they'll give us, i'd take it.

I'd like to avoid nerfs though if possible :X

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It would be an interesting route to take, to say the least. Currently you can get +4 Treasure Hunter from gear effects inside Abyssea, (AF3+2 Feet, AF2 Arm, Dagger, Atma), since Atma sources count as gear. This would effectively be a -1 outside Abyssea (assuming the Kupowers buff doesn't count as gear), and a -2 inside, in exchange for much better damage from Thief.

Of course, upgrading the Thief's Knife itself would probably be easier then changing the code for Treasure Hunter, since the methods to upgrade weapons are already in place. In addition to making good suggestions, we have to also consider implementation difficulty if we ever want to see something implemented in a reasonable amount of time.

Edit: On all this talk about the Vulcan's Staff, perhaps the solution would be a higher level Shield equivalent to Elemental Staves. Still, upgrading the Staff itself is silly and a different debate - if you could just get a weapon with better stats for the Thief's Knife, I'd suggest that, but doing that would result in that weapon and the Thief's Knife being used together. The whole point this thread came up was because of this reality. Getting a better weapon for other stuff is an entirely different discussion.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Based on what? TK is a weapon that is used for its extra stats, NOT for its dmg or delay, but its dmg and delay becomes a factor in thf dmg. You cant compare TK to joyeuse or MKris...because you arent using those weapons for dmg, but for TP gain...

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You're not using your TK for dmg, You're using it for TH. Same argument. When you melee with a Joy/mkris, TP gain is the goal, but TP damage is still a factor. Same as using TK.

A better suggestion would be for a dagger set that gives +1 on each or +1/+2 when used as a set. Alternatively to ask for all low level weapons to be upgraded. The problem with the 2nd would be it would involve either too much random shit to be worthwhile (first augment system) or potentially a lot of programming.

Also I should mention, based on Nynjas post, A Thief's goal is to deal damage and land TH. Thief's Knife is a weapon that conflicts with the goal to do damage and is in turn helping the TH Ordeal.

No other job accurately faces that choice, no other job in the game ever faces an instance of "Put on this shitty weapon, or change jobs" that Thief has to do. THF is already a mediocre-grade DD, further sacrificing damage in order to satisfy those people who want TH i feel is a trade we should be able to avoid.

The comparison with Mkris and Joyeuse/Vulcans is irrelivant, No group forces you to wear those weapons in the same way THF is forced to wear Thief's Knife, and at least 1 one of those weapons has a replacement. There is a distinguishable difference between updating a weapon that already has things that outclass it, or yet remain the best in slot, and upgrading an outdated relic that is forced on our hands due to short-sighted planning.

There's a chunk of solution, and as i don't subscribe to the incredibly illogical "Slippery slope" theory of "If you let xxx happen ALL THIS WILL HAPPEN TOO" I reiterate what i can see as solutions.

1) Add Thief's Knife to be upgraded in some form. Raise its level to 90, Or simply add Level stipulations as Nynja Suggested
2) Limit Benefits to TH From gear to a total of +2.

And my latest idea. Which continue to be awesome.

3) Add a Weapon at level 95+ With "Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1" thats only active if not Wielding a Thief's Knife. Like...

Raider's Knfie
DMG:42 Delay:176
DEX+3 Attack+3
Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1

A Good DMG/Delay Weapon with fluff stats, and a latent effect that only works if you dont wield a Theif's Knife. It solves every problem without the need to upgrade a weapon and all that BS slippery slope logic.

I'm adding this to the OP as the best solution so far.

I always wished they would make a quest where you could change TK into a key item or somehow have it effect your base TH effectiveness level without having to equip it just to tag first and swap out...

...maybe through adding it's TH value to the current Magian Dagger of your choice via Magian trials by trading a TK to the moogle?

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Raider's Knfie

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Knfie? So your solution to the problem is to make Thief have an entirely new class of weapons? I'm sure your thoughts for this Knfie class of weapons also includes lower delays and higher damage ratings then Knifes too! You always want to make Thief so overpowered! :p

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Knfie? So your solution to the problem is to make Thief have an entirely new class of weapons? I'm sure your thoughts for this Knfie class of weapons also includes lower delays and higher damage ratings then Knifes too! You always want to make Thief so overpowered! :p

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2handed Weapons i say!

for what its worth i blame my brothers tiny laptop keyboard :(

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

And my latest idea. Which continue to be awesome.

3) Add a Weapon at level 95+ With "Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1" thats only active if not Wielding a Thief's Knife. Like...

Raider's Knfie
DMG:42 Delay:176
DEX+3 Attack+3
Latent Effect: Treasure Hunter +1

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Or, just add two more high level daggers with either Set: Treasure Hunter +1 or both ith Treasure Hunter +1. High damage dagger. No programming to make a new system. Replaces Thief Knife.
No drama, no problems, no issues at all.

Simple, and works. No need for some new augment system or anything that requires extra programming. Just add two new TH+ daggers.

Then we go to wasting 1 potential damaging spot to wasting 2

Now I'll have to Dual Wield worthless daggers instead of using a Mandau, or Thwast. That wouldn't solve the problem we're trying to address here. :(

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Knfie? So your solution to the problem is to make Thief have an entirely new class of weapons? I'm sure your thoughts for this Knfie class of weapons also includes lower delays and higher damage ratings then Knifes too! You always want to make Thief so overpowered! :p

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Since we're being pedantic, the word you were looking for is than^^ ;p

Targeting only Empyrean/Relic/Mythic thieves there. No reason why they couldn't have good DPS.
Although I agree a Latent Affect (Not equipping TK) would also work.

To be honest though, as much as I would prefer a stronger knife, I don't find it that much of a issue. The lower DPS has never caused me to fail an event. There is of course the argument for optimisation, however. But if you don't care about that (and not a whole lot do) then so what? As far as your personal damage goes, I have no issue with taking a lower DPS hit for the team.

If they added a method to do it I would welcome it, but I just can't see them doing it. There's too much warped SE logic that will get in the way "If we upgrade it, then we will have to offer upgrades for other weapons too" "You have to make a choice: DPS or higher TH" etc etc.

Noodles I wanna be nice to you because you are a fellow THF but your ideas on this subject are terrible and your arguments are beyond weak.

Why'd they nerf our medals :(?

I liked my 4 shiny gold ones. Now i down to 2 again.

What BC idea?

Not trying to derail anything, but I can't see where the Joyeuse/MKris could qualify for the argument (Both have replacements via Magian trials (2xA Khanda +2 or 2-4xA Parazonium+2), though I can see the Vulcan Staff being an issue, save for one thing: Neither Ranger or Corsair (The usual suspects for VStaff's benefits) get any native staff skill anyway, so you'd be using it just for the STR/RAtt bonuses. Thief's Knife, on the other hand, has neither saving grace. And I personally like the idea of a Synergy upgrade just from a logic standpoint, since the Sky weaponry also is upgradable. It wouldn't stand out as odd, as opposed to the Magian trials since the only magian trials that aren't on new weaponry are on Relics/Mythics. As much as I love and am stuck with my TK, it doesn't seem to fit among that august company. Not that I wouldn't be thrilled if it was a Magian trial (My Synergy's only level 2 at the moment because until recently I couldn't afford to skill it up (Darn expensive fewell...)

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Originally Posted by noodles355

What BC idea?

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Sorry got people mixed up. Edited my post to remove the slander.

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Originally Posted by MiriOhki

Not trying to derail anything, but I can't see where the Joyeuse/MKris could qualify for the argument (Both have replacements via Magian trials (2xA Khanda +2 or 2-4xA Parazonium+2),

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Cor can't use Dagger or Sword Magian weapons.

Edit: Also sky gear is endgame content from an endgame event. Thief's Knife is just a drop from a NM and unrelated to any endgame event. If TK dropped from a sky/sea/salvage/etc NM then I'd agree with your point.

I agree with noodles. Offhanding TH isn't bad in the first place. I still believe THF isn't a real DD, especially not in Dynamis or similar events (Olddyna, that is). But with the TH set knives, you'd still have replaced the Thief's Knife, and still got a useful DD ish set going. Are you mad that you can't use Mandau then? Well, that's like BLMs complaining they can't use Claustrum. Some jobs weren't meant to DD or even melee during certain events. THF has many issues, but this isn't one of them (making TH useful, on the other hand, is an actual issue).

An upgrade to Thief's knife would be great. Using synergy to add random augments would be crap - please don't use synergy. My preference would be to have a stand alone quest for upgrade to an existing thief's knife or, at worst, a Magian trial. Please do not add any additional weapons with TH or we will be forced to dual wield two crappy weapons.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I agree with noodles. Offhanding TH isn't bad in the first place. I still believe THF isn't a real DD, especially not in Dynamis or similar events (Olddyna, that is). But with the TH set knives, you'd still have replaced the Thief's Knife, and still got a useful DD ish set going. Are you mad that you can't use Mandau then? Well, that's like BLMs complaining they can't use Claustrum. Some jobs weren't meant to DD or even melee during certain events. THF has many issues, but this isn't one of them (making TH useful, on the other hand, is an actual issue).

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I honest to god can't tell if you're joking or not.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I honest to god can't tell if you're joking or not.

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No .

Keep THFs knife the way it is so people don't have an excuse to full time it.