New idea for Spirits...?

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Originally Posted by MakkotoParinne

Mmmkay....

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I'm just here to help!

Um.. Okay, right.

Why not just post your ideas about the ability? ;3

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Originally Posted by MakkotoParinne

Um.. Okay, right.

Why not just post your ideas about the ability? ;3

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Because he's not actually here to help, all he wants is SMN to somehow magically be accepted as a melee, wherever a Top tier DD is used.

On topic:

I think a balance issue would arise when it came to merits unless they made this ability so weak, that using it with say Avatar acc + elemental -perp merits only gave the same efficency as full Avatar acc+atk merits would. Which it more than likely wouldn't if implemented would blow the latter combo out the window, which kind of removes the choice when it comes to merits, and that's sort of the point.

A non-MP cost to it would seem easier to balance, or maybe a gear solution to it, would do better. Something like a hidden effect on TotM +2 staves, that they negate the extra -perp from this ability, or a stat/HP drain to the master. Or they could change our merit 1 categories to 3 choices instead of 5. They give the same values as current merits, but choice 1 & 2 at 5/5 would be Avatar acc+15/atk +10, and Avatar MAB+10/Macc+15 respectively, or both accuracies on one and attack bonuses on another.

Keep in mind that the ability could still be used while you have merits allocated elsewhere, for an additional 5 mp cost. Those offensive merits would affect the Spirit as well, you see, so the trade-off would be power to longevity. But, I do see your point. I guess I should fine-tune this.

I like the idea of combined merit categories, that would make things sooooo much easier! <3Potency and effectiveness<3 But I doubt they would give us that cookie on a silver platter anytime soon. :/


Edit: On a side note, I do not want this faux-ability-for-fun thread to turn into a Summoner melee war. Please keep that out of here, no one wants to read it. If they did, they would be in a Summoner melee thread somewhere. Thank you.

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Which it more than likely wouldn't if implemented would blow the latter combo out the window, which kind of removes the choice when it comes to merits, and that's sort of the point.

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The merit categories are just pretend choices anyway. It's been tested that the attack merits do nothing. The accuracy merits do nothing for BPs because you are already capped and it only helps DoT from avatar attacks. Macc has never managed to help either. MAB is the only choice. Where you want to waste your last 5 merits is optional. I wasted them in spirits just because that actually does something, even if it makes something useless cost less.

To be honest, 10 attack isn't enough, and with capped skill/merits and other Summoning Magic skill gear makes your accuracy pretty high enough as it is. Magic Attack Bonus actually multiplies the damage, so that is a good choice.

For me, though, I merited 3 in attack (Avatar melee ftw), 2 in MaB, and the rest in Spirit cost. My reason? When I was doing my Evoker's Ring quest a while back, Leviathan managed to get a lucky 1.4k Tidal Wave off on poor Carbuncle. Let's just say Earth Spirit seemed pretty attractive with a one second cast time, but the cost to maintain! Ew. Quake, Assault, Stone IV. Dead Levi.

Also, I don't like losing MP on the off chance I don't Siphon before the tick. What is the cost of Spirits now, 19 a tick...? Am I the only one who Siphons at the last minute? lol

But, I ramble... I wouldn't call Spirit merits a waste, Mala! My damage looks exactly the same as other Summoners who are 5/5 Attack and MaB, so Spirit perp. is the only rational thing to do.

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Originally Posted by MakkotoParinne

To be honest, 10 attack isn't enough, and with capped skill/merits and other Summoning Magic skill gear makes your accuracy pretty high enough as it is. Magic Attack Bonus actually multiplies the damage, so that is a good choice.

For me, though, I merited 3 in attack (Avatar melee ftw), 2 in MaB, and the rest in Spirit cost. My reason? When I was doing my Evoker's Ring quest a while back, Leviathan managed to get a lucky 1.4k Tidal Wave off on poor Carbuncle. Let's just say Earth Spirit seemed pretty attractive with a one second cast time, but the cost to maintain! Ew. Quake, Assault, Stone IV. Dead Levi.

Also, I don't like losing MP on the off chance I don't Siphon before the tick. What is the cost of Spirits now, 19 a tick...? Am I the only one who Siphons at the last minute? lol

But, I ramble... I wouldn't call Spirit merits a waste, Mala! My damage looks exactly the same as other Summoners who are 5/5 Attack and MaB, so Spirit perp. is the only rational thing to do.

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I have actually had times when i would summon a spirit, siphon and get "no effect" because the stupid thing despawned due to loss of MP right as i used the ability...most retarded thing i have ever seen, so i lose not only the timer but the mp that i needed, you can imagine the amount of rage that was ensured after that.. long story short i don't really understand why the cost for them is so high when they are uncontrolable and comepletelty useless outside of siphon.

The damage is pretty random when it comes to physcial attacks, neither attack nor mab will make a huige diffrence but they are definatly better choices then prep cost for spirits..if you are just going to waste the merits you may as well put them in accuracy.

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But, I ramble... I wouldn't call Spirit merits a waste, Mala! My damage looks exactly the same as other Summoners who are 5/5 Attack and MaB, so Spirit perp. is the only rational thing to do.

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Believe me, I just call them a waste to avoid arguments about "They are not superior to attack" all day. If I claim both attack and -perp on spirits are bad choices, less people will bother to argue.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

I have actually had times when i would summon a spirit, siphon and get "no effect" because the stupid thing despawned due to loss of MP right as i used the ability...most retarded thing i have ever seen, so i lose not only the timer but the mp that i needed, you can imagine the amount of rage that was ensured after that.. long story short i don't really understand why the cost for them is so high when they are uncontrolable and comepletelty useless outside of siphon.

The damage is pretty random when it comes to physcial attacks, neither attack nor mab will make a huige diffrence but they are definatly better choices then prep cost for spirits..if you are just going to waste the merits you may as well put them in accuracy.

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My reason for the merits is for attempts to get away without losing enough MP to run out. Also, those merits would make your "No effect" scenario happen very much less, though I can't say that has happened to me.

The damage is indeed random, I often find myself outdamaging other Summoners with 70 BP:Rages and 75 BP:Rages even without full attack or MaB merits. And, as stated above, my accuracy is high enough as it is due to skill. The only thing I miss with is Predator Claws, very rarely, but isn't that programmed to miss occasionally...? I constantly do 1.7-1.9k damage with Rush. (Full TP return!)

But to each their own! :) I just think it's better utility, especially outside of Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Believe me, I just call them a waste to avoid arguments about "They are not superior to attack" all day. If I claim both attack and -perp on spirits are bad choices, less people will bother to argue.

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I think everyone should have their own opinion depending on their playstyle. It's not like other players are the police.. every merit has its application. Though, the boost to Attack/MaB on Group1 could stand to be a little bit better. Oh well. I like my Spirit merits, lol. Never going to look at them the same after fighting Leviathan.^^;

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Originally Posted by MakkotoParinne

My reason for the merits is for attempts to get away without losing enough MP to run out. Also, those merits would make your "No effect" scenario happen very much less, though I can't say that has happened to me.

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It is a very minor inconvinece and dosn't actually happen often. all i do is just wait till i have over 50 mp before trying it, it is still not worth meriting it for that, more attack is always better, even more accuracy can't hurt even if you don't need it. there is simply no reason to ever merit that.

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The damage is indeed random, I often find myself outdamaging other Summoners with 70 BP:Rages and 75 BP:Rages even without full attack or MaB merits. And, as stated above, my accuracy is high enough as it is due to skill. The only thing I miss with is Predator Claws, very rarely, but isn't that programmed to miss occasionally...? I constantly do 1.7-1.9k damage with Rush. (Full TP return!)

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I pretty much outdamage every smn i have met with constant 5k+ heavenly strikes inside abyssea, out side my pets vary based on what i fight,. i do not use "garuda only" fenrir is often a better choice due to his lower prep cost and better dot.
the rest are situational, Levi for high evasion mobs, ifrit for bomb mobs etc.
sure PC is most damaging but again it is still random,

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But to each their own! :) I just think it's better utility, especially outside of Abyssea.

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outside is actually where you really DO want more accuracy and attack, so it would actually be hurting you to merit it for outside use. in other words you are suggesting to merit something that will only get a use for a single JA that you only use when you need the MP, it's like meriting divine magic skill for PLD so your holy dosn't get resisted.

Actually, I only stated my opinion. If you think adding maybe, 50 damage per pact or 10 damage per swing is the most effective thing in the world, by all means. I understand my choice is unorthodox at best, but it hasn't hurt me any. I can usually Siphon at about 30-20 MP left.

I hate it when Summoners only use Garuda, ew. Also, I think the thread is going a little off track.^^; Thanks for your input, though! If you'd like to discuss merits and their relevance, please feel free to create your own thread for it. :)

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it's like meriting divine magic skill for PLD so your holy dosn't get resisted.

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On the other hand, what other magic merits would you put on PLD? Healing magic? Enfeebling magic?

Perhaps what could work is a sort of "infusion" between the spirit pact and the avatar to improve it's potency in battle.

So basically you could have

"Infusion"
-Summon the avatar and it's elemental spirit into one entity to improve it's abilities"
Recast:5 mins
Duation:2hrs

"While under the effect the avatar gains the perp cost of the elemental as well as it's own (but duration can be reduced through the -Elemental BP cost- merit.)"

Basically I think this would encourage people to get the spirit pacts and it would actually make sense for a Summoner of a higher level to have the ability to infuse their avatar with a spirit in order to improve their overall power in battle. It would definitely be better then just having spirit pacts be segregated as a quick mp regain lol.

Personally, I think a bloodwards that gives a particular avatar a Enspell 2 and spike 2. Either separate or together would be cool especially if it's AoE party.

The spirit idea is meh. I like my own multi-spirit idea much better.

Adding a spirits favor would also be a way to enhance the usage of spirits. Though it would have to either improve the AI for nuking or be better than avatar's favors for anyone to use them.

I like the idea but without the penalties plzzzz...that way we could do avatar siphon without releasing avatar and calling a spirit. ^^

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Originally Posted by MakkotoParinne

Avatar's Essence
Job Ability: Summoner level 75
Duration: until Avatar is desummoned or icon is removed manually
Recast: 1 minute

Summons an elemental spirit of your avatar's element to assist.

So, like two pets at once without being able to control it the same way. Think about it like an adventuring fellow. The spirit would be summoned and share hate with the avatar, casting its random spells and meleeing the same target.
This stance would add 5 perpetuation cost, which may be reduced to 0 with merits into elemental perpetuation cost. Elemental Siphon may also be used, but only at 3/4 power.

This way, you can add some DoT, enjoy your spirits (to all us spirit junkies out there), use Elemental Siphon in a situation where it would be inappropriate to desummon, what have you.

The thought just occured to me, and I thought it would give reason to have elemental perpetuation merits in the first place, along with mimicking the Avatar fights for Waking the Beast, where the Avatars have Elementals to assist them.

Tell me what you think!

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Are you Psychic? This is pretty much the exact idea that popped into my head last night and I was gonna start a thread on it lol. Only point to add is that obviously one should need to have learned the particular spirit pact before the ability can be used, but thats sort of a given lol