On the Topic of RDM Magics

I worded what I meant poorly. Like I said, if we had single target versions of all of the sphere spells there wouldn't be a problem. If the mechanic itself shouldn't anchor Rdm to the back. SE so far has been pretty careful adding things that are equally useful to the front and the back (Ie. Gain spells). Really despite all of our melee ideas I know that they are likely going to continue this trend spell-wise with maybe the exception of Enspell T3s (which is why imo Enspell T3s needs to be beast).

We are going to need more then just a small minor tweak to stop our white magic side being almost entirely subbable at 99. Where if Sch and Blm sub Rdm the only thing we can really bring to the table are T2 enspells and enfeebles. Where Brd/Rdm pretty much stomps our supporting ability.

I think you slightly overestimate our current power. Sure we are durable job that can solo well (though I don't think we can necessarily call ourselves the uncontested best soloer anymore), but our situations in parties is not looking so bright. Refresh II isn't enough of a niche to earn us a place by itself considering there are jobs that are much better at it and the matter is only going to get worse and worse as the few remaining things that people are going to invite us into a party for are mostly going to be all subbable by 99.

A 10% better slow over a white mage isn't going to cut it. All of your suggested spells will only enhance our soloing at best. SE is really going to need to run with the enfeebling ball if they want to keep Rdm viable, and like mentioned before a way to mitigate TP attacks is the first thing that needs to be addressed.

That TP move addle idea seems to be pretty popular though. The only problem I see with that is either that new NMs would almost have to be factory made immune to stun or the TP delay wouldn't ever be anything significant.

Even with monsters being immune to stun though it's still a powerful ability. SE can go a bit crazier with their TP attacks knowing that as long as a the TP move addle is up and it adds enough of a delay that players can survive. As long as players are paying attention a spell like this could give players just enough time to gear swap into PDT or MDT gear. That by itself is more powerful then any other spell they can likely add for us to deal with TP attacks, it lets SE go a bit crazier with their TP attacks with that expectation in mind, and, given your connection isn't terrible, adds a new dimension of skill where if you die it's likely because you weren't paying attention and didn't switch your gear.

Also, we have Break though I'm pretty sure I know what you meant.

Edit: I am in agreement wit the cycle elimination. Like I've said before. cycling one spell over and over isn't a fun mechanic. I mean if WoW got rid of Plds cycles within like its first expansion you know there's a problem with the mechanic.

Besides, like mentioned, don't hold something back because you think it's overpowered. An idea itself can't be overpowered and can be worked around to be balanced.

Quote:

---

And not to sound like a douche or anything but theres a 50 some odd page RDM melee thread you can discuss it there. I'd rather not have this thread degenerate to bickering like that thread has.

---

While I'll say the following and pretty much leave it at that, the melee side does have a legitimate concern in that if being pure caster is too good, then yes, it is the melee death knell. I'm sure there are some sitting there reading this maliciously craving for that just to shut us up, watch us squirm, or whatever, but we've been teetering on that for a long time.




Overall, you should know I'm for longer, potentially better buffs. I feel like Saboteur should function more like Nightengale/Troubador in that for 1m after being used, any enfeeble cast will get the boosted effect instead of being a one-shot. Future debuffs could also come in layering effects, or even current ones tweaked as such so multiple RDMs could buff up and sustain an enfeeble on a given mob much like DNC Steps.

Just gonna copy/paste my old post from the new enfeebling magic thread that came up a while back. Some are pretty basic. Some, maybe not.

(Wind : Black Magic) Confuse: Target temporarily loses access to some spells and TP maneuvers.
INT check determines how many of each are blocked. Lasts up to 3 minutes.

(Water : White Magic) Inhibit: Reduces the power of a target's TP maneuvers and increases their ready time. TP gain is also lessened.
10-25% reductions for power and time based on a MND check. -Store TP and Subtle Blow+ for players would also vary. Lasts up to 3 minutes.

(Fire : Black Magic) Muddle: Reduces the target's Magic Attack and INT.
Variable between 10-30 MATK and 15-30 INT based on INT check. Lasts up to 3 minutes.

(Thunder : White Magic) Shatter: Reduces the target's Magic Defense and MND.
Variable between 10-30 MDEF and 15-30 MND based on MND check. Lasts up to 3 minutes.

(Dark : Black Magic) Spellbind: Reduces target's Magic Evasion and Magic Accuracy.
Variable between 15-30 based on INT checks. Lasts up to 3 minutes.

(Light : Black Magic) Regress: Reduces the target's level.
How many levels will depend on the INT difference, but this would mainly reduce all stats by the amount the players might gain through their own leveling and possibly weakening the strength of job traits if, say, the level down would take a mob from Evasion Bonus IV to III. EXP gain or skill up checks would stay at the mob's default level. Does not wear if landed, but can not be overwritten, either.

(Wind : White Magic) Panic: Target is compelled to run around in a panicked state while losing stamina.
Target will run around randomly in a 15 yalm radius at varying speeds from the point they're inflicted with the spell, losing 1% HP for every tick they're running. They will not attack or cast in this state, but taking damage from anything other than the spell's effect will bring them back to their senses. Can last up to 60 seconds.

(Earth : Black Magic) Bog: Target is knocked back with slight earth damage and their movement speed and evasion is encumbered.
Distance knocked back can be 5-20 yalms. Movement speed reduction can be 10-30% and Evasion -10-20. Damage should be somewhere between Stone II and III. Additional effects can last up to 45 seconds.

(Light : White Magic) Emanate: MP costs of spells cast by the target is distributed to party members and further deducted from the target's MP pool.
For example, if a mob casts a 300 MP spell, a percentage of 10-50% of that cost would be given variably to each party member in range (~15 yalms) resulting in a 180-900 MP loss for a party of 6 on top of the 300 spent to cast the spell. Lasts 2 minutes or 10% of the mob's Max MP.

(Dark : Black Magic) Pain: Physical damage done is reflected upon the target while reducing its ATK by that amount.
INT-based spell that reflects 10-25% of damage a mob does in attack back to it. If a hit does 300 damage, its next swing will be performed with -300 ATK, changing to -150 for the next round if that's how much it did as a result of that, and so on for the duration of the effect, up to 3 minutes.

(Non-Elemental : Black Magic) Ensanguine: Inflicts a powerful DoT that slows a mob's attack speed the lower its HP gets.
Thinking roughly 20-30 a tick with the slow effect being 1/3 the percentage of HP lost. So, a mob with 30% HP left would have a 23% slow. This would stack with other slow sources like Slow II and Elegy. Spell would last up to 120 seconds.



I'll stop for now. Things like Plague are also a bit of a given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cidbahamut

We already have access to Break...

---

We do, and it sucks. Not even worth casting on fodder. Almost anything worthwhile I cast it on turns out to be flat out immune, or it wears off instantly. I've had better success with Sleep than this spell. And yes, capped and merited Enfeebling skill with M.Acc gear and atmas.

I wish SE would reevaluate NM's immunity to the bulk of what our specialty is supposed to be. Players are duoing zone bosses with very little difficulty, so why purposely keep giving NM's these broken mechanics? The "challenge" of most NM's is laughable at this point, so why keep shutting us out of contributing to the fight? If something simply requires an obscene amount of M.Acc, then that's fine; at least it's attainable. But every NM being immune to everything but slow/para/blind is really aggravating, and some NM's are even immune/highly resistant to those.

For as much as SE supposedly doesn't want RDM's to wind up as healbots again, they sure have a funny way of showing it.

It wears quickly if the mob is getting hit, while only useful on most fodder mobs (it actually lands on some RotZ Nms, I haven't seen it land on any other Nms but haven't really tried) it certainly doesn't wear instantly.

Agreed on the second points but SE did say they were looking into it, going back to old areas and finding shit is flat out immune is aggravating. I've had better luck enfeebling Zone bosses than in Wotg...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

It wears quickly if the mob is getting hit, while only useful on most fodder mobs (it actually lands on some RotZ Nms, I haven't seen it land on any other Nms but haven't really tried) it certainly doesn't wear instantly.

Agreed on the second points but SE did say they were looking into it, going back to old areas and finding shit is flat out immune is aggravating. I've had better luck enfeebling Zone bosses than in Wotg...

---

Didn't know about it wearing if it's getting hit. That makes sense, as I'm usually in a party with DD's attacking what I cast it on. But, this being the case, what's the point of the spell then? Cast Break and then run away? It's the same effect as Sleep. I know when a mob casts break on me, it takes it's sweet time wearing off, even as the mob pummels me.

Break is more like an earth-based sleep than it is a petrify effect. It's what you use on undead or when all your other crowd control timers are down.

If it had the same potency as it does for mobs I think we'd see hordes of Red Mages running Break cycles on anything that wasn't outright immune to it, so it kind of makes sense in that regard. Doesn't change the fact that it's still dumb how NMs are immune to everything other than Blind/Paralyze/Slow.

It's useful for keeping things 'asleep'.

One glaring example is the avatars on new dynamis summoner NMs. Once sleep wears they'll immediately astral flow, but chuck break on before it wakes and you can safely resleep without needing stuff like spellcast to time your spells accurately. Edit: As long as it isn't Garuda or Titan.

It also stacks with Manifestation so is very useful for keeping a large group of mobs 'asleep' safely without them beating you to death the second they wake up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alkimi

It's useful for keeping things 'asleep'.

One glaring example is the avatars on new dynamis summoner NMs. Once sleep wears they'll immediately astral flow, but chuck break on before it wakes and you can safely resleep without needing stuff like spellcast to time your spells accurately. Edit: As long as it isn't Garuda or Titan.

It also stacks with Manifestation so is very useful for keeping a large group of mobs 'asleep' safely without them beating you to death the second they wake up.

---

Ok, that makes good sense. Thank you for that. :)

Break also keeps mobs "slept" if they have a DOT on them. There's a small chance the DOT will wake it but not 100% like Sleep - I have pretty good luck with this, and it's the biggest reason I like Break. Even just soloing, I can keep Dia/Poison on the mob and still be able to break it for a few seconds if I happen to need a breather to turn and re-apply buffs or cure. Also, I'm never opposed to any additional form of sleep on a separate timer to keep a mob no one is fighting at bay.

I'm a huge fan of Stop as proposed in this thread - stopping time-based effects on the mob rather than the mob itself. It's a great way to inhibit regain, regen, refresh on mobs as mentioned, and goes along with the concept of Addle - NMs are immune to silence so let us go 1/10 of the way. NMs would likely be immune to Amnesia, so let us go part of the way with Stop.

I've also always wanted Reflect in this game. The classic argument against it is the mob will be resistant/immune/absorb the element they cast. So, sorry to say it here, that's why I want a Reflect for SCH that changes the element of the reflected spell into the weather currently on the reflecting player...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seriha

While I'll say the following and pretty much leave it at that, the melee side does have a legitimate concern in that if being pure caster is too good, then yes, it is the melee death knell. I'm sure there are some sitting there reading this maliciously craving for that just to shut us up, watch us squirm, or whatever, but we've been teetering on that for a long time.

---

Quote:

---

First is that pretty much kills any future hope for Rdm melee as any mage aura spells pretty much anchor us within the aura surrounding the mages.

---

I disagree with these sentiments.

To be frank, our performance is rather independent of the buffs we would place on any mages. And, as the track record shows with AF3+2s and composure, any streamlining to our casting ability is a benefit to us in the front lines.

We aren't required to be in the back lines to soak up an aura we give them, we have our own versions or Refresh II, etc that we can cast on our selves for longer duration. If anything, an aura independent of casting on ourselves makes it easier for us to front line, and maintain front line buffs, as all we need to do is Aura a Melee with the buff, and soak it up ourselves to keep and eye on it running, or simply to spare us casting it on ourselves.

But I am also keeping in mind that this is done in tandem with separate Melee buffs that would stand on their own merits. Again this was a focus for our mage aspects, which I believe need a serious streamlining, particularly in situations in which the monster dies too quickly to make the constant application of debuffs to be cost effective.

For higher NM struggles, they've already told us we're receiving new debuffs and better resistance checks. I'm awaiting more information on that before I comment further.

I guess I'll toss out a few enhancing ideas, since that was also mentioned in the manifesto.

I suspect these concepts have been mentioned by somebody already, since they are far from inventive.

Wall - White Magic - Enhancing Magic: Would provide 10%-25% -Physical Damage Taken depending on skill level.

Barrier - White Magic - Enhancing Magic: Would provide 10%-25% -Magical Damage Taken depending on skill level.

Single target, immune to the scholarly wiles of Ascension, one would overwrite the other. Going right past the -50% cap would be pretty nuts, so maybe it could be a separate value so a bro or bro-ette with -50% Damage Taken would end up with rounabouts 37.5% damage taken. Or they could just work towards the current cap and not overwrite one another.

Modifying -% Damage Taken is a pretty big deal, so I'm not really sure what would make this sort of ability balanced.

Blink II, Stoneskin II - Able to be cast on others something something. Higher caps than the tier I spells something something. Not less potent than the tier I spells like Phalanx II was when it was first introduced something something.

Not very inventive, but giving someone 4 Blink images or 500+ HP of Stoneskin would be helpful. Well, not so much the four Blink images, but I won't rob SE of the pleasure of adding a useless spell here and again. Currently, one of the strongest Stoneskin effects in the game comes from Cure V or VI with a Orison Bliaud +2 equipped, and that just strikes me as weird.

As for enfeebles, just making the current set actually work on the majority of Notorious Monsters would go a long way. Even if the effect of a good dMND value was halved on said Notorious Monsters or something, that would be far better than just making lots of stuff flat-out immune.

Failing that, more enfeebles with subtle effects like Addle that actually work on even the most notorious of Notorious Monsters would be okay. Something like:

Old/Age/Cripple/Fatten/Clinical Depression due to Reading the Official Forums/I am Not Good at Naming Things - White Magic - Enfeebling: Lowers the target's STR, DEX, VIT, and AGI.

Muddle/Befuddle/Bamboozle/Mental Disorder and Disarray due to Posting on the Official Forums/I am Still Not Good at Naming Things - White Magic - Enfeebling: Lower's the target's INT, MND, and CHR.

Even if the effect of both of these could go up to -30 or even -50 for the monster for all aforementioned stats, they wouldn't drastically change a fight the way a high Slow value or Silence potentially could. The monster would just do less damage and take more damage.

Or just let good enfeebles work almost normally on Notorious Monsters, the same way everything else worthwhile does. I fear that's too much to ask for, though.

Also...

En-Not-Horrible: Provides an Accuracy and Attack bonus based on enhancing magic skill ON CAST and deals a percentage of damage dealt by melee hits as an additional effect. Maybe 50%. I don't know. My goal is to envision En-Not-Horrible, not En-Really-Good, so I can't say I've ruminated on it greatly.

Another random idea.

Encure -Additional effect: heals the target you are attacking

"This isn't anything new. Encure has been suggested many times before and it would be nearly impossible to impliment because they would have to adjust the auto-attack feature to work on players"

Who said that this spell goes on players. Why not make this enfeebling magic that you cast on the monster so that whoever the monster is attacking they cure with an additional effect as well.

Now I'll admit this spell isn't exactly the most practical thing in the world since you aren't going to be getting hit by anything significant worth fighting, but the idea was just too priceless not to post :P

I thought I'd see who would entertain this idea after casually mentioning it one of the melee threads. But would anybody care to see spells that enhance player pets? I'm not going to lie and say I don't have a vested interest in such a thing happening, since one of my main jobs is a pet job, and one that most power players view as inefficient at that (BST).

But SE did say they are pushing to give all jobs endgame relevance. What better way to start than to end this nonsense of how pet jobs don't get the full benefits of enhancers? And what better way to push RDM in the Enhancer direction than to start making it so the job can work together with all types of jobs?

Maybe spells that grant -PDT% to pets? Or increase pet MAB? Or heaven forbid. Cure pets. Finally give some weight to the idea of sending disposable NPCs rather than living breathing players to their deaths that they can come back virtually unweakened from.

EDIT: Thought I'd throw out some ideas I thought about while trying to get some sleep. In general, I'm not a fan of posting concrete ideas because the only consistent thing about updates is that they're never as good or as bad as you think they are. But here goes:

Animist
Decreases the amount of damage taken by a target player's pet and enhances all restorative effects on their pet.

Ogre's Command
Increase's the Attack and attack speed of a target player's pet.

Medium
Confers Stoneskin and Blink effects unto a player's pet and increases the pet's Magic Attack Bonus.

Lots of good ideas here, but I'd like to reply to something I noticed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Ha, 19% Haste may be a biiiit broken (and simultaneously gimp every other mage in the game). I'd definitely take 10% Duration per upgrade, though. That seems to be the direction the Devs are leaning as far as reducing support casting burden goes. I doubt anyone would complain about casting Haste less often.

---

Perhaps adding these as job traits would be good, or perhaps not (would 4% extra Haste be broken?), but the Red Mage AF3+2 set, and the AF3 cape already augment duration, and while they aren't as amazing as the 3x duration bonus Composure does on self, it does all add up to a 1.65x duration on people you cast on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I'd really just appreciate an increase to maximum debuff potency at this point, though. It's a problem a lot of jobs are facing, really. Potency caps were built around level 75, where hitting cap was actually decently difficult on some/most things and for some/most people. A steady increase in player stats and available gear without an increase to maximum dMND is odd. SE already addressed some of this with their tweaks to maximum buff potency, so I'd imagine that a tweak to maximum debuff potency is forthcoming.

---

Again, maybe this would be a good change, particularly with Mind caps being increased, but between Saboteur and AF3+2 set effects, you get a straight 10% buff to enfeebling effects in general, and an additional 20% to duration and effect if you use Saboteur.

-

All that said, Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II would all be welcome additions, but SE should give them to both Red Mage and White Mage, and to emphasize that Red Mage is the better Enhancer, make these spells rely heavily on Enhancing Magic skill, including Haste. (I admit, I have a bit of an agenda here, part of it being to punish people who burn a White Mage mule and bring it to events then complain when it gets all their drops.) Having undercapped skill would ideally make Haste II about as effective as Haste. Even more ideally, the recast on the spell won't be 20 years, especially if you don't have Fast Cast or you have Composure up.

While we're at it, perhaps Red Mage should get a boost to Enhancing Magic Skill ranking from B+ to A- or higher. Having Scholars be able to Light Arts their way to equal skill is never something enjoyable. Alternatively, give Red Mage a job trait that boosts Enhancing Magic by a set number.

One way to address the dilemma of not being able to stick enfeebles on Higher NMs that I'd like to see that wouldn't break the balance is to have an 'uber' enfeeble spell castable only under two-hour like SCH's soon to be Brave spell. An enfeeble with multiple and strong effects that last for a significant amount of time that would have high magic acc.. This would allow RDM to enfeeble the NM while restricting other jobs from being able to and at the same time it doesn't allow the RDM to get all uber enfeebler due to the limitation of a 2hour recast.

While I'm okay with pet buffs or a Stoneskin II we could cast on others and such, for the love of all that's holy, DO NOT let their base durations be 3 minutes or less. Anything less than 5 would just be aggravating, 10 more of an ideal before you start introducing set bonuses. Heck, I'd be happy with a Haste equivalent that costs 80 MP and starts at 6m.

You know, i been thinking some lately, and i have an interesting idea for increasing our cure and enhancing potency in one bundle, and making the other curing jobs feel a bit more love. Im thinking taking a page from blu, and doing it one better, sorta. Personally i love to melee on rdm, but if i am forced to be heal support the worst thing to do is ride cure IV/III timers, even fastcast stacked, can be a bit tedius and unpleasant, anyway onto my thought process and idea.

Elemental cures.
Why? Well white magic is notoriously bland (in a element scheme) Of most the good white magic being light element, black mage on the other hand has 6 elements to cycle, and atop that has multiple tiers and still some great other spells to cast. Now what im thinking would be sorta one spell for each of the classes that has cure IV, heck we could even add one to blm (not required but im on a roll so dont kill my buzz just yet!) Anyway what i did was looked at Affalatus Solace, and Plenilune embrace, both offer cures with a specialized buff, so why not make a line of cures that do something similar? Lets see what i can come up with... Im not gonna bother adding names and this is kinda for all jobs but i thought of it thinking as a rdm and for rdm.

Earth-Cure: Lets say 30-60 seconds of physical damage taken -5% or -10%.
Water-Cure: Lets go with status removal, similar to erase, seems like a prime RDM candidate.
Wind-Cure: Hows about a 5% haste effect? A single blink image? An Eva boost? Not too sure yet.
Lightning-Cure: Since so many people link crit rate/dmg to this, that could work, again, short durations like 30-45 seconds
Ice-Cure: Hows about some short duration ice-spikes? Or maybe MDT-%?
Fire-Cure: Perhaps a ws damage bonus or multi-attack effect for the duration?
Dark-Cure: Grant maybe some sorta weak dreadspikes with ultra-short (20 second) duration?

How are these practical? More cures, separate timers, and offering blm/drk an emergency (self target perhaps for them?) only cure, it can be based on dark magic skill if anyone cares. Also it adds some unique (possibly battle swaying) effects to make healing dynamic, now i dont expect any job to have all/most/any of these, im thinking 1 per job.
Perhaps whm gets earth, rdm gets fire or water, sch gets wind or lightning, pld could get earth or ice possibly too if someone minds, and so-forth, it would be too powerful to grant all to any one job, however another idea i had going with typing this would be to turn it another way, making it a cure IV equivolent (more mp cost was implied before but keeps with this idea) which grants a bonus effect based on the game day, similar to what i listed. Could twist it again and make weather take over for it too but if sch got it then, with storm surge they could have some pretty simple aoe power-buffing... Just a musing i came up with.

Elemental cures are actually an interesting concept.

If I were to add them I would likely give them all to one job (Rdm since that's the only job that can cast black and white magic at any time at a decent level of proficiency) then have them cure around as much as Cure 4 does now and give them like 3x the recast.

That should already triple our HPS ability without treading onto whms ability. I might change the buffs on them slightly so we aren't expected to be curing someone every time the cures are up even though someone may be at full HP, probably more defensive buffs in nature.

There's a lot of different ways you could toy with this concept. It's an interesting idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Economizer

All that said, Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II would all be welcome additions, but SE should give them to both Red Mage and White Mage.

---

I disagree, Every job has it's own spells to capitalise on the jobs strengths. SE keep saying RDM is the Enhancer when it has less Enhancing spells than most other jobs, and they're always self-target only.

Blink II, Stoneskin II and Haste II if added should be RDM alone. If they're into giving WHM anything since they've decided to give them AoE give them Hastega and that's it.

Quote:

---

While we're at it, perhaps Red Mage should get a boost to Enhancing Magic Skill ranking from B+ to A- or higher. Having Scholars be able to Light Arts their way to equal skill is never something enjoyable. Alternatively, give Red Mage a job trait that boosts Enhancing Magic by a set number.

---

I think an addition as said on this forum before via Merits would be good and still allow people to customise their RDM..

Enhancing Magic effect -- 1->5
Enhancing Magic duration -- 1->5 (Each rank increases duration by 10%)

I agree about the A- rank

Haste II is just bad for the game in general lol.

Not really, Could simply be 20% Haste, Does not stack with Haste 1. 5% More potency won't break the game when theres already a haste cap.

Plus Magic Haste is the easiest to reach thanks to Marches. 5% more toward reaching that easier wouldn't go overboard.

Quote:

---

Spontaneity (Lv. 95)
Reduces casting time for the next magic spell the target casts.

---

Looks like they listened and gave us "Quick Cast" as a Job abitlity :)!

Quote:

---

Temper (RDM Lv. 95)
Grants the ability to occasionally attack twice.

---

:Q i hope its potent.

Hoping Temper is at least 15%, possibly scaling higher with Enhancing skill. Such is a type of spell I've pined for in the past largely to graduate us past Joyeuse or other multi-hitters. For those that have access to CDC, it'll certainly help there, too.

And, well, hey... Raise II. Won't complain about that.

I see RDM gets a Double attack spell this update, yay!!

My wonder will be whether or not it's acessionable...

My curiosity is if it will be Target-able on other players at all.

Otherwise its a nice novelty to RDM melee but not much else. Accession would help though?

Don't forget Gain-STR

All in all, im pleased by this update. However the question, where will they stick these spells? update abyssea coffers? Voidwatch rewards? Or npc only? Must ponder this...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

My curiosity is if it will be Target-able on other players at all.

Otherwise its a nice novelty to RDM melee but not much else. Accession would help though?

---

Someone on FFXIAH made a good point, this could be their "new" type of Enspell.

That's always a possibility, though I hope not. I'm praying you can target others, or Accession+Temper. Those combos could be potent, but at the same time it could also overpower already potent melee units. I can hope, but I would not be surprised if it's "the new enspell" as has been mentioned.

Also, annoyed at no Cure V. Hate you too SE, good job. Raise II in an environment where we get the EXP back in like three kills tops? Yeah, that's so useful. Also they gave Addle to BRD and WHM; that makes me sad. The former not so much, they needed some offensive songs besides Requiems that won't land and Elegy. The latter? You guys get all the cure spells, decent enfeebles since a lot are modified by MND, and now you're bumping into RDM territory. Not cool. D:

Blah. All the mad aside, we sorta got shafted. The Quick Cast JA is decent, and Temper has potential. Blizzard IV will prolly still be our Abyssea nuke with Beyond, but Thunder IV could be nice outside. Raise II? Underwhelming. Gain-STR? Melee RDM toy. Honestly until I see some decent numbers from Savage Blade/Death Blossom, I'm sticking with a dagger and Evisceration; I have a lot of DEX gear lying around that my RDM can use. Gain-DEX please, tyvm, especially for the RDMs with CDC.

I hope Temper makes up for all of this. :(

It's a little strange they're choosing to cram Gain-Int into the 96-99 gap with Gain-Dex.

Well, they deviated with Gain-CHR, so not too surprised.

White Mage being given Addle felt like a kick below the belt. We're supposed to be on top of the enfeebling thing right? Does SE realize there's more to that than just having an A+ skill rating?

This thread needs some love and I had an idea this morning. Probably a bad one but just run with it.

What if our tiered enfeebles stacked with each other? Like, you can cast Slow and then stack Slow II on top of it. It wouldn't really fix the problem of mob TP moves, but I think it'd be a pretty damn cool trick, and might even make Blind II worth meriting.

The chatlog would be kinda weird though if they wore off separately. 'paralyze effect wears off', well which one? Ideally it would work so that the first tier simply acts as a boost effect to the second tier so there's really only one effect on it.

Example because I lack linguistic clarity:

Slow: X%
Slow II: Y%

Slow > Slow II: X% + Y%, duration based on Slow II.
Slow II > Slow: Y% because you didn't prep the mob with Slow to boost Slow II.

My first thought is that it would be overpowered. As it is, our enfeebles don't work on mobs that actually count, so the idea of stacking them, when they don't work in the first place, seems really unlikely.

But if it did work, mobs would be complete push-overs. Stacked para's and slow's alone would turn a mob into a muddled, drooling punching bag.

RDM definitely should have a stronger haste than WHM(and especially /whm). In real events the RDM will end up being the one casting haste because of our af3+2 set bonus, so ours should also be stronger. 4-5% stronger is not game breaking and will help RDM a lot more than anyone thinks.

Giving RDM a plague, amnesia, and inhibit TP(Like yurin) enfeeble will also make them the masters of enfeebling and incredibly useful again.

These two things, as well as not making monsters immune to our enfeebles(they can be immune to every other jobs who cares), a cure4 2.0 so we can cure - > cure4.5 instead of having to lolcure3 and a few more cool/powerful/strong enhancing magic buffs for party members would make RDM perfect.

Any RDM complaining about haste/refresh cycles seriously needs to play another job. That's like a bard complaining about song cycles(which last MUCH shorter and require you to position properly or single target with pianissimo).

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

The base differences between RDM and BRD.

BRD is 90% Buffs.
BRD's buffs are the majority AoE BY DEFAULT. So having to cast them on a shorter duration is offset by the fact that they don't have to cast March on 6 people individually (Twice for double March), then Ballad on 6 people individually.

Imagine ONLY Panissimo. With Bard, with ALL of their buffs and debuffs. Then add in MP mechanics.

Until there are better mechanics (MORE than just Composure) surrounding RDM's Buff spells, calling RDM anything more than primarily a self enhancer is a false statement. Haste and Refresh ARE powerful, but they are NOT a buff library suitable enough to call RDM a buffer any more than Swords make RDM a full DD Job. SE might have tried to state as such in the Manifesto, but until the deed is done, RDM does not deserve the title.

What we are is a good single target enfeeble. And I'll put my backing over spells that allow us to address issues with TP moves. Though I severely doubt we'll be getting Amnesia at this rate (nor would it work against the mobs we'd want/need it to anyways.) Plague and 'Inhibit TP' are iffy at best, but I'd put more weight behind plague.

I'm repeating myself again, but what I'd like to see is an Addle for TP moves. A passive spell effect that reduces the effect of TP moves by a growing amount, but more importantly, delays the use time, giving a larger opportunity to stun, run, or prepare defenses. It also effectively stops additional attacks while the monster is charging (if the ability has a charge time.)

I've already stated my solution as to what would make RDM a better buffer (A way to transfer buffs on themselves to an ally, bypassing the self-target mechanic so we could technically give Temper along with other stats to an ally.) While Bard DOES get Panissimo we don't rightly have a good one-target buffer in the game as of yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rayik

My first thought is that it would be overpowered. As it is, our enfeebles don't work on mobs that actually count, so the idea of stacking them, when they don't work in the first place, seems really unlikely.

But if it did work, mobs would be complete push-overs. Stacked para's and slow's alone would turn a mob into a muddled, drooling punching bag.

---

I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that. Stun alone does more to turn the tide of battle than our whole arsenal. I'd like Red Mage to have more stuff in its toolbox that's comparable in magnitude.

But yes, game balance is a pretty big concern and the more immediate issue is that SE keeps making everything immune or have a floored land-rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that. Stun alone does more to turn the tide of battle than our whole arsenal. I'd like Red Mage to have more stuff in its toolbox that's comparable in magnitude.

But yes, game balance is a pretty big concern and the more immediate issue is that SE keeps making everything immune or have a floored land-rate.

---

I agree, I'm with ya on the goal of using our enfeebling. It's just like, as you said, keeping it balanced is a big concern. Trying to find a fair middle-ground with enfeebling is a headache with how the game engine works. Enfeebling is either super-powerful or useless, at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

---

Really? Nobody has brought up bagging on buff cycles in weeks. Is Shiyo just trying to start a fight out of thin air?