On the Topic of RDM Magics

[Karbuncle]

Well, We all know the RDM melee thread. Its ripe with discussion for the RDM melee community and ideas (inbetween the bickering)!

So why not a Mage Equivalent? To be clear. This is not an insult nor satire of the other thread, I Simply believe both aspects of the job should have a thread dedicated to it.

I want you guys to post your ideas/Reasons/Helpful Abilities/Traits that will make the MAGE in Red Mage better. Any ideas/Abilities you think would really help RDM as a Magic based class!

I'll start! Basically my ideas wouldn't be the super-est broken ones, But something that might realistically fit the RDM job.

Job Abilities:

Ability 1
Next Spell casted will be "Quick casted".
Recast: 3 minutes
Duration: Next Spell

Ability 2
Increases Magic Accuracy and Magic Critical hit Rate for spells.
Recast: 5 mintues
Duration: 3 minutes
*Increases Magic Accuracy by 15 and M.Crit.Rate by 15

Job Traits

Trait 1
Increases Potency of Enfeebling magic spells.
RDM:30/50/70/90
Potency of Enfeebles Increased by 3% per stage. Duration of Enfeebles increased by 10seconds per stage.

Trait 2
Increases the Effect of Enhancing Magic Spells
RDM:50/75
Potency of Buffs enhanced by 2% Each Stage. Regen/Refresh not effected.

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These Traits and Abilities won't make RDM Wtf-amazing (Except for Job Trait II, If you think about Haste being 19% for RDMs instead of 15%!). But they work for RDM, in a sense, Enfeebling and Enhancing Experts. (right?)

[Greatguardian]

Ha, 19% Haste may be a biiiit broken (and simultaneously gimp every other mage in the game). I'd definitely take 10% Duration per upgrade, though. That seems to be the direction the Devs are leaning as far as reducing support casting burden goes. I doubt anyone would complain about casting Haste less often.

Making Quick Cast a selectable JA rather than a random trait would be vastly preferable, too. It would drive me absolutely bonkers to QM proc and cast a spell in my Idle gear. It'd essentially be a waste of MP.

I'd really just appreciate an increase to maximum debuff potency at this point, though. It's a problem a lot of jobs are facing, really. Potency caps were built around level 75, where hitting cap was actually decently difficult on some/most things and for some/most people. A steady increase in player stats and available gear without an increase to maximum dMND is odd. SE already addressed some of this with their tweaks to maximum buff potency, so I'd imagine that a tweak to maximum debuff potency is forthcoming.

[cidbahamut]

Magical Critical hit rate intrigues me. I know it's in place for nukes(via some gear like wise strap), but how would it work on non-damage spells, or would it just be a dud when proccing on those?

[Supersun]

It's been mentioned before but Rdms REALLY need some form of spell to actually hinder a monsters TP attacks. Kinda silly that Rdms can't even significantly touch the most dangerous part of most fights.

[Duelle]

I've always been partial to the idea of dual element nukes, provided they're at all possible given FFXI's mechanics. As I see it, they could either follow the combinations we see for level 2 skillchains (though we don't have something to cover the second parts from Fusion and Compression) or do something like Ice+Water, Wind+Lightning, Fire+Earth. The effects is something I can't flesh out for the life of me, though...

Note: To clarify before someone comes and tells me "butz thatz BLMs speshulti!1!one!", not necessarily. I would limit it to a tier below your current highest tier. We currently have tier IV nukes, so the combined spells would therefore be tier III at the highest. On a concept level, a RDM is not a classically trained mage per se. He'd be more the guy that at times does have to make stuff up on the fly to live to see another day on the battlefield, often relying on unorthodox methods to reach those ends. I'd say combining two elemental spells into one spell would count as unorthodox.

It is also an offshoot from another idea I had that allowed a RDM to combine several spells into a bigger spell, though I fear that would be pretty much impossible given FFXI's mechanics for magic.
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Something else I wanted to present was something to boost healing without cure V, which has been the cause for debate. My idea for it would either a trait or a short-cooldown JA that would tack on an extra amount of HP healed over time when using cure spells. The problem is that traits are kinda unreliable and button-spamming on a JA is kinda meh. Another option would be to tie it to a mage-oriented stance, provided certain things come into play to preserve balance.

[Eeek]

The 2nd Job Trait seems a bit overpowered as it would overshadow buffs from other mages like Haste and rival a WHM's fully-merited Shellra V. I do like Krabnuckle's 1st proposed Job Trait, though. It meshes well with SE's vision of RDM as a master enfeebler/enhancer.

It's all for naught though if RDM's enfeebles still won't land on the highest-tier NMs. I know SE mentioned this problem in the Manifesto - they need to adjust enfeebles cast by main-job RDMs so that they'll actually land on all mobs from trash mobs up to the highest-tier NMs. It's asinine that my RDM isn't that much better than my BLM at landing enfeebles. As part of its niche, RDM should be able to enfeeble mobs that the other mages cannot.

RDM also generally needs a wider array of Enfeebling and Enhancing spells as the game progresses to 99.

I also like Krab's proposed Job Abilities. A Quick Cast seems like a perfectly logical progression from Fast Cast, but like Greatguardian mentioned, all it would do, as a Job Trait, is annoy RDMs as they end up casting spells in their Fast Cast set. While not amazing, Quick Cast would be somewhat useful as a Job Ability. The 2nd Job Ability would give RDMs a little more leniency in situations like using a MND Club/Shield in favor of a staff for a more potent Slow II or Paralyze II.

[Kensagaku]

There we go, something I can get on board with. I've nothing against RDM Melee (I have a melee build myself for situational uses... albeit a work in progress) but honestly I'd like to enhance what we're most skilled at. This is just my opinion, however.

Anyway, regarding Karby's ideas:

JA1 - As it has been said before, I'd love to control this. Back before I had some better atma, I used Apoc for the Quick Cast, but as a result I started seeing nukes in my Fast Cast gear, or enfeebles in the same, and that always messed me up. Being able to control it would be nice, like for a quick raise or something. I would be the first to support this but everyone already beat me to the punch. :P


JA2 - For some reason I see this being named "Concentration" (since Focus was taken by MNKs, though the FFIX/X renditions had it as a BLM ability to boost magic damage). I like this as well, and it could be a nice compliment to Saboteur. However, I do see the potential to it being a bit overpowered if it's a constant effect for three minutes; it toes the line pushing RDM into nuking territory, and while we can do this to some extent, the 15% M.crit could potentially (and again I say potential because I'm not one of our mathers) be too strong. I do like the enhanced accuracy as well, but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I also used parentheses far too many times there.


JT1 - This one I like, especially since you can stack your more potent debuffs with Saboteur too. Would love to see Para/Slow II be more potent. Would this affect Bio/Dia too, increasing further their attack/defense down abilities? Would it affect their DoT, and on that note the Poison line as well? Just a curiosity. Because by expanding the duration and effectiveness of DoTs, it would really help our overall ability to aid in the battle by reducing HP faster (which makes a visible difference finally on these high HP mobs!) and further weakening the foe.


JT2 - Maybe just take Haste off of the list as well? I mean, I'd love to see a potency boost on Protect/Shell/enspells/Aquaveil/spikes. Though with the last two, how would that work? Would it be longer-lasting Aquaveil effect (i.e. more interrupts prevented), and more powerful spikes? Maybe a bit more elaboration would help this look more viable.


There was one other idea I was looking at, the one Duelle put up. While it might seem odd to put RDM into the double-element nukes, I like the restriction, and you could technically claim it to be "Red Mage Canon." Could be something like Dualcast/Doublecast (your choice of name) but focused on just making the dual-element nukes rather than being two rapid-cast spells. The only problem I immediately have with this is that while we have the restriction of being one tier down, it also pushes us more into BLM's territory; we're a flexible job, and while we're able to nuke, that should not become a defining role.

Maybe what I'd like to see for the dual-nukes is a further enhancement on what they're doing with skillchains; by casting these spells, you do a good amount of damage and reduce the enemy's resistance to certain elements very briefly. Yes this toes the line for NIN's line of elemental jutsu with their enfeeble effect, but I'm just tossing ideas out as I go.

Another thing that could be considered is a dual-resist drawback; each half of the spell could be subject to its own resists. As an example, let's name them after the skillchains for now, i.e. Fusion/Distortion/Gravitation/Reverberation... those would be cool spell names. Let's say you're fighting a fire mob and you cast Distortion. The water half wouldn't get resisted due to Water > Fire, but the ice half would be subject to severe resists. So let's say you get a full resist on the ice half, you'd put it down to 1/16 of its potency. The spell itself would end up having only ~53% of its potency. This would be a potentially relevant nerf to keep it from digging too far into BLM territory while still providing us with a good line of offense, especially a Dark (well dark/earth) and Light (Fire/light) nuke to give us a even more versatility.

Mind you, these are just random ideas that came to mind upon reading the whole dual-element bit. Pardon the rambling. XD

[Karbuncle]

The 2nd Job Trait seems a bit overpowered as it would overshadow buffs from other mages like Haste and rival a WHM's fully-merited Shellra V. I do like Krabnuckle's 1st proposed Job Trait, though. It meshes well with SE's vision of RDM as a master enfeebler/enhancer.

Yah, I was thinking of making it not work on Protect/Shell, because of just that. Haste i thought would still not be toooooooo powerful, Because it would give a RDM a solid spot in the party, Who wouldn't take an extra 4% haste?

It lets the WHMs go back to Curing, and etc. If you cant find a RDM 15% haste is still there, but if you can invite a RDM, you get 19%. it wont make or break a party but it would be a significant boost to RDMs Enhancing potential!

on the topic of hindering TP moves!

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Spells

Plague
Reduces an Enemies TP and MP over time.
recast:20s
Duration: 2minutes
Effect: 4mp/4tp-tic


I would think Amnesia, But I don't know a good balance for that.... 2minute recast/30sec Duration? What would be a make/break point for it... Dont want it to be useless but also dont want it to be too powerful! leave that to them

Edit:

but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I think elemental seal caps your Magic Accuracy (95%), So it wouldn't boost it too far. and Magical Critical hit is only ~+10MAB. I don't think its too broken! I could be wrong :X

Edit2:

How about-

Job Ability 1
Forces a Magical Critical hit on your next attack
Recast:3min
Duration: 1min or next spell.
(This might fit BLM more.)

[Crimson_Slasher]

Thankyou karbuncle for this thread, granted it took me time to realize it existed and i did post a rather aggressive post in the melee thread just now, this what that post exactly called for! Now for me, i think potency is one way to go for rdm, as we do lack some in the mage department, however... On an enhancing/enfeebling standpoint personally, id like to see spells more in line with the gain spells to be utilized for RDM, things not unlike "Gain-Att" or perhaps to boost those wanting to enhance our tanking/offenses in mage methods, we could add "Gain-MAB" or "Gain-MDB" to rdm for some very powerful buffing indeed, as it would further support the mage side and manifesto ideals. Allowing us to boost our own MAB or that of say a BLM/SCH would help the party, especially with the ability to cast gain stat spells (int/str/dex) separately from these gains. That or again possibly splitting the gain spells from the boost spells, allowing us to utilize all at once, boost spells AOE but cant stack, why not make it so gain can stack but not aoe? Just some thoughts.

[Hyrist]

It's been mentioned before but Rdms REALLY need some form of spell to actually hinder a monsters TP attacks. Kinda silly that Rdms can't even significantly touch the most dangerous part of most fights.

This seriously. Having no way to directly counter the most dangerous aspect of opponents, or even really truely mitigate the usage like we can normal attacks (with slow, paralyze, blind, etc) Is really, really annoying. Especially when they start releacing bosses who's spells or even normal attacks count as TP moves, or status effects that are on an Aura.

That completly bypasses RDM mechanics as they stand now, and a way to occasionally prevent TP moves or even just lenghen their use/delay would really be a boon for the job.

That said, RDM's Buffing game is sorely in need of a complete overhaul. It's long since been a standing complaint that single-target buffs are just not an adaquate job passtime. It's tedious for no reason, especially when pratically every other buffer job or those who can buff the party do so to the ENTIRE party automatically or have tools to allow them to spread so with ease.

Pair this off that most of the Buff spells on Red Mage are self-target only and everything about RDM's buffing side SE said on that Manifesto was pretty much false.

While 'Aura' abilities might be a solution to this, I think it's a bit farther from the base Red Mage mechanics then I personally feel comfortable. But simply giving Ga versions of of some of our root buffs (Phalanxga, Enspellga, Hastega) Would not be too much to ask. The fact that these are pretty much SMN exclusive just dosen't register as a valid reason to keep them away from RDM's spell list. I was rather upset that our Gain Spells are neither acessionable nor natively AoE while WHM could do so easily.

Also we could use buffs of greater variety. (Seriously, Brave at 2hr ability for Scholar?) Right now I think SE really just dosen't know what to do with this job class.

The only other Solution I can think of is to really abandon the buff path, and give us a wider variety of debuffs that improve preformance on all ends. (Magical Critical rate up on the target, Magic Defense down, Crit rate/damage higher on opponent, etc.) Which would also be ok, but if this is the path they choose to take for Red Mage, then we're going to need a general performance boost for situations in which we're dealing with multiple enemies that die quicker. (Which was where I was directing our melee buff with anyways so perhaps that works out.)