Formal petition: Change the billing method or lose your playerbase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

This one is probably the better one, the other is full of rage.

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and why should it be rage free?

i'll give u an example what happens to rage free petitions.

we have much temporary work here in germany.
our temporary workers get 50% of the wage an employee directly in the company gets.
they started a petition and got much more subscribers as neccessary to make it become a decission by our folk.
this petition should have lead to a decission by our folk but all that happened was, that the government totally ignored it.

Edit: true story!

so screw rageless petitions!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

and why should it be rage free?

i'll give u an example what happens to rage free petitions.

we have much temporary work here in germany.
our temporary workers get 50% of the wage an employee directly in the company gets.
they started a petition and got much more subscribers as neccessary to make it become a decission by our folk.
this petition should have lead to a decission by our folk but all that happened was, that the government totally ignored it.

Edit: true story!

so screw rageless petitions!

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Google Thich Quang Duc. No rage there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Google Thich Quang Duc. No rage there.

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he set hisself on fire >.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

he set hisself on fire >.>

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Yeah, it worked for him, maybe we should support this one because the initial post has, y'know, requests? Demands? How ever you want to put it it throws ideas out there, the other one simply lets them know we're mad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alukat

he set hisself on fire >.>

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I can't set my character on fire as a method of deletion in protest of SE never seeming to care about us the way they should. =/

Quick someone make a thread requesting that feature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

I can't set my character on fire as a method of deletion in protest of SE never seeming to care about us the way they should. =/

Quick someone make a thread requesting that feature.

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This actually made me laugh.. I'm not sure where I was going with the Monk, I lost my train of thought soon after posting it. The rest of my last post still stands as my point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

This actually made me laugh.. I'm not sure where I was going with the Monk, I lost my train of thought soon after posting it. The rest of my last post still stands as my point.

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What makes me laugh is how there is extensive outrage about this on BG, the official forums, and Zam, but not on AH.com. All the people who would have shouted about it were banned or stopped posting from the way the new ship sails over there :P

Good thing SE doesn't really recognize AH.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

What makes me laugh is how there is extensive outrage about this on BG, the official forums, and Zam, but not on AH.com. All the people who would have shouted about it were banned or stopped posting from the way the new ship sails over there :P

Good thing SE doesn't really recognize AH.com

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I was never banned at AH. I just don't really use their forums because I didn't think that much had changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

I was never banned at AH. I just don't really use their forums because I didn't think that much had changed.

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Never said you were banned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Never said you were banned.

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Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

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we have a rep with an account over at BG that reads it. Ontop of BG being a premier site for ff14 (don't ask, I don't even know).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rosina

or just set up account with ultimate pay and use paypal to buy crysta. Learn to read and do research so much rage over lack of research.

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Gosh you make me angry! Wake up!! do you NOT realize the main reason why people are are so upset with this? its because We SHOULD NOT need to go through a 3rd party vendor(clickandbuy.com) or 3rd party "items" (ie crysta)to Pay for this game! Square is supposedly a multimillion dollar company, they should be able to afford to do there own direct billing and do it to the convenience of the customer, none of this "work around" nonsense to pay... Anyone Who does or has worked in customer service should know that customers REQUIRE convenience, simplicity, not go through annoyance to enjoy/purchase a product! That takes half the enjoyment out of it, Period!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kojo

Right, I didn't know SE recognized BG and ZAM.

Nvm, again, misunderstanding..

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Zam is on the premier sites list, and SE has talked about BG before, but I cant quote what they have said off the top of my head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Babygyrl

Square is supposedly a multimillion dollar company, they should be able to afford

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Final Fantasy XIV. Cash. Hemorrhaging.

Great Recession. Nobody is buying anything, ever, anywhere.

Oh, and a nuclear earthquake, that didn't help much either.

A million gross isn't the same as a million net.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Final Fantasy XIV. Cash. Hemorrhaging.

Great Recession. Nobody is buying anything, ever, anywhere.

Oh, and a nuclear earthquake, that didn't help much either.

A million gross isn't the same as a million net.

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while that's true, it doesn't exactly make sense that when they have a product that's been giving them a steady stream of money, it's not exactly smart to piss of those customers.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

it's not exactly smart to piss of those customers.

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And if they can't afford not to?

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And if they can't afford not to?

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Said this in the other thread: Simply allow people to buy even amounts of crysta then. Not 15 because its the closest thing to the monthly fee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And if they can't afford not to?

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Then it is their problem, not ours. Besides the notion should be completely disregarded for such speculation.

Hurting your income because you can't afford to do anything else is not our problem and if they do not change this I hope their income is severely hurt as they really merited it.

SE must be going to abyssea because they are working hard on capping their "annoy customers and possibly lose them due to idiocy" in their "others" option for merits.

Square, I want to play your game. Why don't you want me to play your game? You might say you want me to play your game, but your actions always say otherwise!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Said this in the other thread: Simply allow people to buy even amounts of crysta then. Not 15 because its the closest thing to the monthly fee.

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And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

You can argue for a different trade-off, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, not in this economy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Hurting your income because you can't afford to do anything else is not our problem

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It is not your problem only if you have absolutely no interest in if they're able to maintain FFXI. Whatever Square-Enix's obligations may or may not be, they do not include operating FFXI at a loss for your sake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

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Uh, wut? This has nothing to do with a price increase on FFXI.

Crysta on the JP client is able to be bought in exact amounts which reduces waste. If I have one character active, im looking at 15/month anyway because that's as close to 12.95 as you can get.

While SE may have had to change 3rd party billers for financial reasons, there is no reason why one group of individuals can buy the exact amount of crysta to pay for XI while the others have to play overshoot which translates to free money for SE.

What the current system shapes up to be is a ploy where SE scoops up leftover cash across all the accounts active. Two dollars here and there adds up to alot and Square is counting on that.

For gamecards you buy in stores I can see set amounts (5, 10, 20, 50, 100) but for online purchases? Cmon SE, really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

You can argue for a different trade-off, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, not in this economy.



It is not your problem only if you have absolutely no interest in if they're able to maintain FFXI. Whatever Square-Enix's obligations may or may not be, they do not include operating FFXI at a loss for your sake.

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i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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Originally Posted by Babygyrl

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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Same.

Superfluous text.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Well, quitting might make you lose 5 dollars as a person, but SE when they shut down servers would get about 2 million dollars in leftover cash that they'll just put in their pockets and say "Thanks, suckers!"

Not to mention this initial payment when everyone pays for a couple of months will make it seem like SE as a company is doing good, and give a fake stock raise on the market. So not only are they attempting to fool their customers, they want to fool investors as well.

And yet the solution is so simple. Let people pay the amount they are charged for. Doing that will make you seem like a good company, and not some loan shark company that is out after stealing money.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlayOnline Member Agreement

3.2 Termination.

(a) Your PlayOnline user account and any rights you may have under this Agreement (including those you may have under any other agreement related to your use of PlayOnline) will immediately and automatically terminate upon your breach of any provision of this Agreement, including (without limitation) your violation of any Rule.
(b) You may terminate this Agreement at any time by canceling your PlayOnline user account and by ceasing all use of PlayOnline and all related services. If your PlayOnline user account is terminated by SEI for any reason, you will not be able to reactivate the terminated user account again.
(c) SEI reserves the right to terminate PlayOnline Service in whole or in part for any reason with or without prior notice.
(d) SEI MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY PLAYONLINE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME, WITH ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

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Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Babygyrl

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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The thing is, you effectivelyt ARE getting a rate hike. Haven't run all the numbers, but no matter what, you will be paying an extra 1/6 billing cycle per year now (365 days/30 days vs 12 months at once per month).

If after this change, you are no longer able ot pay with your local currency, you may be subject to a currency exchange fee (5.9% for C&B, or whatever your financial institution of choice may charge).

If you elect to do it through Crysta...it takes 100 cycles at $12.95 to hit a flat multiple of $5---totaling $1295 over about 8.219 years, or 98.63 months--which on the original once per month scheme would total $1277.26 in fees. So, during those 2 years, you will be paying slightly more per minute to play in comparison to what you are currently paying.

No matter how you run the numbers, you will potentially be paying more per unit for the same amount of play time if you maintain your active status 24/7/365. SE gets more money in both the short term from crysta users, and in the long term from those who maintain their accounts full time.

Also...if you opt to use the game cards you have to pay your local taxes on your purchase, which for me would be a 6% increase in cost directly to me. Not to mention the added expense of traveling to a local store if one isn't close enough for you to walk to ( I have a CVS and a Walgreen's across the street, so I may luck out on that front).

But aside from all that... the simple fact remains that for 2/3 of the games regions are having one payment option that would make almost ALL of the complaints go away completely scrapped with no justification for doing so. The GUI, Scripting, Payment processor (which IS a third party contract btw, SE is NOT the Credit Card clearing house, these go through a specific company that charges set rates for processing the cards)--all of this already set up and being used for the JP clients EXCLUSIVELY so the only thing effectively affecting JP regional users is the more frequent billing of once every 30 days instead of once a month.

Everyone else is being forced to restructure their payment options for no reason. Our current methods COULD be maintained and the Click&Buy, UltimatePay, and Crysta options could have all been fully implemented in parallel--JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING FOR THE JP REGION.

THAT is the big issue.

As such....my accounts will time out when they turn off the switch on this, as I am not transferring until either they remedy this disparity between the regions, or some new content is added that I feel justifies the additional risk/effort/cost to continue playing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

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that is one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read.

Are you sure you know how banks work? FDIC-insured US banks offer you up to $100,000 of your money back in case the bank closes, and at any rate a physical, federal-backed bank is generally a much more reliable institution than a third party online payment processing center. If you live in a place where a parallel can be drawn between them, then you have my sympathies. FYI, Banks also don't force you to write checks or make purchases in set increments of $5 even if the goods or services you wish to purchase do not tally up to exact multiples of 5.

No, it's not the end of the world, but yes, it is annoying and not appealing to many consumers. Saying that "life isn't fair" and "deal with it" defeats the purpose of having customer feedback, which promotes the possibility of improving both the customer's experience as well as the company's business.

Anyway, I agree to and support the suggested changes listed in this petition. I feel it's unfair that we are forced to choose between overpaying monthly on this new crysta system or having to go with an untrustworthy third party site, when as mentioned there is another group of individuals who can use the same system without having to overpay.

I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

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I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

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Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

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but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

Quote:

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but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

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Again is the only fee increase SE made in past 8yr... Note all MMO work that way, just SE was different on that.

For new payment system, i also wan to point... before if you wanted to help a good friend to pay his monthly fee (due to unemployment or w/e it is the reason) you had to log on his account and enter you Credit Card number, and then what happen if that guy refuse to remove you credit card for other month??? You locked to pay for him till your card expire, or have to cancel you credit card etc... tons of fun...

Look now... you can log on your friend account.... Buy 2,000 Crysta with paypal and log out, and Bingo, no credit card locked, no worry for next month, if you still wan pay for him next month, repeat the same precess...

I see more convenient in the new system then any inconvenient, but seem everyone just focus on the tiny inconvenient that is causing. I doubt SE will loose income with this new system, they will actually increase they income big time.

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:

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「クレジットカード」「Crysta」から利用されるお支払方法を選択し、「次へ」をクリックしてください。 "Credit card" "Crysta" and select the payment method used by "Next" Please click on.

※ ※ 「クレジットカード」は、Visa、MasterCardの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したカードがご利用いただけます。 "Credit Card", Visa, personal authentication services for MasterCard (3D Secure) available card with.

※ ※ 「Crysta」はVisa、MasterCard、JCBの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したクレジットカード、およびウェブマネーでチャージすることができます。 "Crysta" are Visa, MasterCard, personal authentication services for JCB (3D secure) credit card with you and to charge money on the web.

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Quote:

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クレジットカード番号、有効期限、セキュリティコードを入力し「次へ」をクリックしてください。 Credit card number, expiration date, security code, enter the "Next" please click on the.

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Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAIST

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel--they get to continue doing what we are doing now.

Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crista or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

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Agree they are lucky, as they are lucky to have better lag because they live in japan too....

You know as me Visa/mastercard etc in japan and here is different system, 3D secure was a crappy shit done and there not such of bullshit in japan, to me that explain a lots why japan still can use Credit Card and not us...

Researchers criticise 3D Secure credit card authentication

Anyway if you trying to tell me that crappy system we had for credit card was perfect then you clearly have no clue of what you talking about...

no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).

Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:

Quote:

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*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

---

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

Quote:

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no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).

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Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

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nope.. this shows you don't know what you are talking about. 3DS and VbV is not a stand-alone system for processing credit cards. That is a feature that your CC supplier signs up with that provides an extra lair of security within the transaction process. They are using a clearing house in the JP region to handle transactions there (and they require the 3DS authent. to protect themselves), as well as a clearing house in the US to handle CC transactions here--as evidenced in my edit that I think you just missed:

Quote:

---

Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:

Quote:

---

*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

---

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

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[Edit:]
did a quick search to find a simple explanation of the protocols and such, conveniently wiki seamed to be pretty decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

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Do you honestly think that if this game lost console users, even just PS2 users that it be a positive thing? If you you are completely disillusioned.

Anyway, people bitched about this billing system when FF14 was in beta and they did not listen. I do not think they are going to listen this time either. It is probably about time this game ends, and for no reason other than SE is clearly going to kill it by their own devices.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

you are completely disillusioned.

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Disillusioned? lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

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You'd rather pay $5 in points you may not be able to spend elsewhere, if at all, rather than directly fund the team that maintains the quality of the game wtf seriously?

Clearly you do not do as you suggest others to since you do not show much reading comprehension at all.

I wasn't even talking about the C&B system and whether or not it charges fees, but about how crysta forces you to overbuy points instead of letting you buy exact amounts, and how it is totally not the same as a banking institution in your poor analogy, and the "problem" is not one that is magically solved by paypal.

Honestly, I'm not even the type to nitpick over every little thing, but when I do see an honest flaw in a system that could use significant improvement, I'm going to attempt to do something about it, even if chances of SE doing something is slim. You even mention yourself how you don't trust C&B... well, it's your own prerogative to accept things even when you yourself don't like it, but don't dismiss other people's attempt to strive for improvement, that's a terrible mentality.

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Originally Posted by Alukat

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

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Your thread is for people to express their justified anger, this one outlines our demands. Don't see why it's hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

Disillusioned? lol

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Yeah, just occurred to me I used the wrong word, regardless the question stands.

I also made a thread to count how much money SE will lose over this if the people who want direct billing leave. I figure they care more about our money than our outrage or petitions anyway.