I call BSwhite textQuote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
Confessions of a Leech
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07-26-2011, 04:06 AMKorpg
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07-26-2011, 04:23 AMPantheraNo, nothing "stopped" people from getting to max level, but it was an uphill climb, and a steep hill to boot. These days, it's just a matter of letting the autopilot take care of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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07-26-2011, 04:30 AMZagenSo back in 2003 when it was an up hill battle for everyone to get exp it sucked, and now in 2011 where it is easy exp it sucks? I don't get it... Again neither method prevented gimps from getting to 75 even in 2003 EXP groups could function with 5 at the same pace if they were decent players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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07-26-2011, 05:12 AMPantheraNo, I didn't say it "sucked." It was difficult or challenging, and pre-level sync nearly miraculous, but people could still do it--and their praise was earned. Post level-synch was doable. It took effort, but that's the whole point, the effort was a good thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
The old way did make it near impossible for incompetent or "gimpy" players to get to max level, that is, if the leader did their job and booted them. I certainly did. Incompetence or gear short-comings would get you killed in soloing, and you'd actually make backwards progress, back when we actually lost exp for dying. Now, it doesn't matter if you're competent or not. You can just go AFK, and you get 90. -
07-26-2011, 05:14 AMZagenNo it wasn't... that's the point. It took longer that is the only difference between now and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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07-26-2011, 06:01 AMLeonlionheartPeople don't like to understand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
GUYS SIMPLE: Exp grinds always sucked.
They were not difficult, ever.
They took way too long, until ToAU (+WotG)
Then they were overly simple (TP Burn Lolibri from 37~75)
Now it's just sitting there to get 75, then doing a rape fest with your job and 17 other people to 90. -
07-26-2011, 06:07 AMTsukino_KajilolQuote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
I call BSwhite textQuote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
The rest if the party would kick you to keep the PL. -
07-26-2011, 07:27 AMAurara
Taking this quiz for fun and to make a point :P
1)Multiple times
2) 6 manned it at 75, duo'd at 90
3) Caedarva Mire, past the graveyard where you turn in items for mythic.
4) Yep, i hate this mob
5) 5 jobs, thf war blm rdm cor at 75. At 90 i have 12: thf war blm rdm cor brd whm nin blu mnk smn rng
6) Did SATA til 60 then lulz tpburn!!!
7) Was there anything else to do? Aside from puddings in Mtz or Aerns in sea lol?
8th and Final) Nope.
The point is, if you're bad and you leveled the normal way, you're still bad. If you're good and level the normal way you're going to be good. If you're bad and abysseaburn you're going to be bad, and if you're good and abyssea burn you're going to be good. -
07-26-2011, 07:53 AMSeyrena[True Strike]Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurara
It's the same with WoW. If you get carried to 85 and you're good, you'll be good. If you get carried to 85 and you're bad, you'll be bad. -
07-26-2011, 07:53 AMKhajitI always thought the grats thing was stupid to begin with unless you got something special with that lv. Eg. a brd got a new march or ballad, etc DD job got a new JA or a good ws. Most of the time there's not much point in even saying grats anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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07-26-2011, 08:13 AMZatias
I myself don't leech and probably never will. That doesn't mean I resent people who do; if they choose to leech, good for them. If not, good for them. >.>
Just don't show up in one of the parties who needs you to have all blue mage trigger spells ;P -
07-26-2011, 08:42 AMLeonlionheart
Irrelevant of the way you leveled, if you show up to one of my PUGs (on content that's harder than Brobek) with less spells/gear than I think you should have, I will kick you.
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07-26-2011, 08:42 AMOctaviane
On the subject of PL, just cracks me up to see a Rank 7, level 14 DD ( WAR/um........either DNC or NIN) with a PL in Dangruf Wadi doing GoV page 2. I guess the point is get it done fast with someone who can heal you every time you take a hit. Sad.
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07-26-2011, 08:46 AMZatias
That 40 second haste PLs give at that level is also awesome.
Before all this GoV spam and such, I actually PLed my bf on jobs he hated as rdm/sch, giving enspells that did more damage than his melee attacks. It was a riot to watch XD -
07-26-2011, 08:46 AMLeonlionheartThe point is to get it done fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octaviane
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07-26-2011, 10:26 AMPantheraActually no. They ask to get into my parties (I was leader 90% of the time across 20 jobs), or ask if I happen to making them, because I was a stickler for good setups and checked everyone to make sure they had good gear. I knew about camps that some didn't. With a good setup, PLs aren't needed at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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07-26-2011, 10:33 AMCovenant
Seyrena... Don't take this personally but you remind me of a welfare recipient..."I just sit back and collect a check".. You milk a system that has good in mind, namely helping those truly down on their luck. You rationalize you contrary behavior as does the criminal in prison whose always "innocent" and lays the blame elsewhere.
In general, I couldn't care less if your a "leech" but then you come on these boards and are proud of this fact. I feel sorry for you and for all the people exposed to your personality. To sum it up...
...you enjoy playing this game, BY NOT PLAYING THIS GAME! Pathetic. -
07-26-2011, 10:37 AMPantheraI would say that having to work for your exp and not having to work for exp are quite different. If you think that those two things are the same, by all means, please explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
Is your position that 6 lower level guys fighting one higher level mob is the same as +6 guys higher level guys fighting against one lower level mob for Tome Exp, as this is what the OP is discussing--and he is afk, are the same thing? Now and then are the same thing. Hmmm. -
07-26-2011, 10:43 AMLeonlionheartITT: Killing 9000 Crawlers per level is funQuote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
There's no use arguing with you people, you're just... silly. You might have had fun doing that, but for those of us who didn't, and had to level several jobs for their LS, you just sound like noobs. -
07-26-2011, 10:53 AMKimbleHave you ever used an EXP scroll or level synced?Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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07-26-2011, 10:54 AMPantheraThe point is that they put hours of time and energy into actively partying. It takes patience and a willingness to work with others. Earning a level is an accomplishment; what they got was their level, and you are praising their commitment and achievement. Nothing unintelligent about that, in fact, it's only polite to do so. Far be it from me to have a failure of being polite, I, for one, wasn't brought up that way. If someone AFBs, AFKs or RMTs, I don't see what's to praise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khajit
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07-26-2011, 10:55 AMLeonlionheartHigh and mighty, doesn't go well over the internetQuote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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07-26-2011, 11:46 AMOctavianeAll I can say to that is LMAO! The pot calling the kettle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
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07-26-2011, 12:03 PMAurara
It's actually not. We're pointing out that people who play like crap and leveled the normal way were still terrible terrible players, and the people who understand game mechanics can AFB, Abyssea burn, and GoV burn will be better players. Terrible is terrible no matter how you leveled up.
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07-26-2011, 12:09 PMLeonlionheartSee, I don't know what it is, but somehow this message, the brunt of everything I've said in this thread, goes unheard to anyone who doesn't agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurara
OK imagine this: Why do people go to school? So they can learn right? But it's more than that, it's to learn in a designated environment, so that you can get ahead of the people who don't get an education.
On the other hand, you can skip school entirely and just go out there and work to get experience in whatever field you want.
They both work, but I think that going to school brings in a little bit more money in the end. Going to school starts you out in a higher position faster than not going to school.
In the same way you can leech and burn your job to 90, and as long as you've done your research and learned your job it doesn't matter that you start really playing the job at 90. This is actually prefered anyway, because the introduction of some abilities are huge game changers for that job, and you can get better practice using them in conjunction with high level abilities in the first place.(See: Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Assassinate, Meditate, Counterstance, Afflatus Solace/Miser, Retaliation, Restoring Breath, the list goes on.)
If you don't do research and know what gear you should be using, when you should be using your JA, WS, ETC, then you're probably going to be a bad player no matter what. It's not like you can eyeball what is better: Bullwhip or Goading?You'd probably never know without a parse/reading it online/being told. -
07-26-2011, 12:14 PMSeyrenaJust wanna say: I LIKE this reply! This is exactly what I was looking for, some opposition that is not 'LOL FAST EXP IS BAD GO DIAF'. Though it's not completely legitimate, much of your argument is valid and it is fairly delicious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
Contrary as my behavior may be, I never lie about it. I will tell parties straight out what my intentions are, and let them decide whether they want me in. Usually, they just don't care. I have only ever been turned away once. Sure, I'll look for altruistic outcomes as always, but don't we all? I'm just trying to make the best of a new system that has been put in place, and so far, I've been succeeding drastically. I've found that the only people opposed to my style are the old veterans who are die-hard in the belief that hard EXP is the only good EXP.
By the way, the difference between welfare recipients and leeches is that welfare recipients largely give nothing back to society, whereas I provide entire magnitudes of benefit as a result of my leeching. -
07-26-2011, 12:26 PMTsukino_KajiThat's the kind of person that ends up on my blacklist to thinking they can tell people what to do. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
It's not a matter of not needing a PL, it's a matter of expiditing the lvling proccess which in itself has nothing to do with the other content of the game that makes it worth playing. -
07-26-2011, 12:31 PMSeyrenaI suppose, in the end, it comes down to a conflict of what people value in FFXI: the grind or the content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji
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07-26-2011, 12:37 PMZagenHere's the thing if you suck at the game, refuse to better yourself, all that happens in the old method is you took longer to get to 75. You weren't magically prevented from getting there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
In the new system if you suck at the game, refuse to better yourself, all that happens is you're required to beg friends to let you leech (assuming you have friends), come up with gil to pay a leech party, or some how get cruor to be a key person.
In both situations the sucky player gets delayed, in neither situation do they get prevented from getting to a level cap. This is my stance, new or old gimps still got to level cap at a slower rate than good players.
And guess what those good players don't associate with those sucky players once they find out they suck, at least I don't, dunno about you.
I'd rather be out farming gear, killing new NMs than sitting there grinding EXP. -
07-26-2011, 12:37 PMTsukino_KajiTrue. But faster grind is still grind. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyrena
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07-26-2011, 01:39 PMMeyiSchool is designed for many reasons. Not only to learn the material necessary for your job, but to learn the building blocks leading up to your job, to further enhance your education in every facet of life, and to stimulate critical thinking skills. They also show that you can do a task that is required of you; come to class, study, and pass tests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
You could just go to a job, but not all jobs are the best to do this with. If you don't know how to operate the equipment or what your job entails (such as researching), then you'll be slowing the company down with your constant questioning.
Sometimes it really is best to learn about something before jumping into it. Although reading how to do something and actually doing it physically are completely two different things, sometimes having the knowledge lodged somewhere in the brain can help the problem be solved.
This is very true. FFXI isn't real life, and it doesn't require an education in to enjoy. It's a video game. Lots of people before us have been kind enough to parse the information and record to the mass; we should be wise to read up their findings and follow their advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonlionheart
I've always said that bad players will be bad players because it's a mind set, not a lack of skill. If someone doesn't care to study the job they're playing at least a little bit (whether it be through trial and error of their own testing or reading online), then that's lazy.
But to be fair I'm not always a good player myself. I really don't care to learn much about White Mage. I'm not a fanatic on gearing it up to be the best. I leveled it for emergency healing for group activities only. If someone points out a piece of gear I should fetch I'll usually shrug my shoulders, unless it's a big change in what I have now. If it's advice on Job Abilities/Spells though, I'm all ears.
When it comes to Black Mage and Summoner, on the other hand, I love these jobs enough to do as much research as I can. Also to obtain as much gear as I can.
When it comes to someone leeching, initially of course I feel kind of put off by it. I had leveled 7 jobs to 75 on my Elvaan the old fashioned way, and soloing. It was slow and sometimes it infuriates me to see other people take two days to get that job to 90 with gear better than I had ever had. Maybe jealousy? Ah, either way, I remind myself that in the end it really doesn't matter; they're level 90 now, and that's all that really matters. That job can come out and help us at events now. As long as they know how to use it, I'm happy. -
07-26-2011, 01:39 PMRearden
I can't recall ever having difficulty leveling up aside from NA PC release. To say leveling was difficult after ToAU and WotG were released is asinine.
Aside from there being exp bonuses in nearly everything you did, you could constantly level sync yourself to certain prime areas for xp until you got to your first set of Colibri. From there, pulling 20k/h (Lv55+) wasn't even difficult.
That's not even taking into account SMN burns, Chigoe burns, Pet burns and Pet soloing.
Crap XP would be leveling on acrophies in Qufim or Weapons in Battalia because you can't get to Kazham, or leveling on (yet again) weapons in Ro'Maeve, Spiders on the way to Faffy, or Tigers/Cocks in Kuftal. The 16m repops didn't even matter because you would almost never kill anything fast enough to run out of the 5 mobs actually near your camp.
Edit: and lol at setting up all parties for 20 jobs across over9000 levels. I show up to parties (if I do them) under 30 naked and with a weapon appropriate to the level. That's all that is needed to be successful. I've been kicked from parties for doing that and have been called gimp etc. These are the same people who I've seen wearing NQ AF3 on their 90's who I promptly post up to themosthatedwebsiteinallofofficialforumdum.
I've rarely enjoyed xp'ing, and I still don't enjoy it. What makes me dislike it the most is the 5 to 17 other people in the party. -
07-26-2011, 02:47 PMKorpg
You know, as a person who has both soloed a job to 90 and leveled in a party to 90, I have to say that the exp grind sucks, regardless of how you are doing it.
I soloed Summoner from 1 to 90 mostly, I did get into parties while leveling, but those were very rare and far between. Can I say that what I learned from soloing Summoner has helped my job out a lot? Yes, it taught me the appropriate distance to summon/resummon avatars in kiting, what type of pathing monsters usually take, how fast certain mobs are (believe it or not, but lizards are slower than treants, just saying), damage types and what is best to kill stuff with. It has helped me out a lot when it comes to soloing harder NMs today. And I didn't have to afk solo at all. Do I say that everyone should do what I did? Meh, up to you, I personally don't care.
I have also leveled (recently) my WHM in a party-type situation(s). Mostly from abyssea. Some parties I wasn't even needed, so I guess you can say I burned it, although I wasn't a keywhore (cruor for me is better spent on other things, like brews and such). I went from 30 to 90 in a matter of days, while it took me 9 months to level SMN from 1 to 90. By some of you guys logic, that must mean that my WHM must really suck and I am horrible at it.
My 50% cure potency, level 85~89 magic skills, and my knowledge of macros and stuff says otherwise (love <stal>).
I am most likely better geared, know more, and have more experience as WHM than most other 90 WHMs. And I only use my WHM about twice a month!
The point being, if you suck, you suck period. Exp parties teach you almost nothing about being dependable and how to cope harder stuff (like trash NMs in Abyssea, I have seen alliances wipe to Glavoid while myself and 2 friends can kill it easy) and be a key player in this game. I know my job as a SMN. I know my job as a WAR. I know my job as a WHM. And I expect you to know it too, otherwise I will beat the information into your shallow brain until you can recite me the list of WHM spells in Alphabetical Order AND by order of cost of MP, inverted! -
07-26-2011, 04:41 PMMeyiDear Altana, this. I love <stal> as well. I am of the oldschool Zilart White Mage people who only had <t> at the time of reaching 75, so when people blinked gear, I'd grow pretty angry. Most of the time I would just type out /ma "Cure III" name/<p#> to ensure targetting them. Then when <stpt> came out, I wasn't impressed. I was in Salvage at the time and wasn't aware of the <stal>, and since we'd normally go in a party of 7 or 8, it was infuriating not being able to cure outside party members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
But <stal> is beautiful. Every White Mage should use it. -
07-26-2011, 04:55 PMTerasan
I personally haven't leeched any jobs on either of my two characters (Terasan and my old one that got hacked a while back). I have GoV burned a few subs now on Tera, but other stuff like my BLU now I've just duo'd with my sister. I don't have any issues with people who've leeched/Astralburned/keywhored, just as long as they give a crap about their job and are willing to learn how to better their performance. Also, just for lulz (nice tag, btw) here's my quiz :P
1) Have you ever defeated Genbu? Yep, hundreds of times.
2) Have you ever defeated Proto-Omega? Yep.
3) Do you know where the entrance of Einherjar is? Mhmm, Hazhalm.
4) Have you ever defeated Pantokrator without a brew? Never fought Pantokrator, was hacked at the release of Heroes.
5) How many jobs do you have at a previous level cap? 75? 90? Had... 7? at 85 before, have WHM at 90 now.
6) Have you ever used a "First Voke" SATA method on any monster above level 80 (Greater Colibri are 83 IIRC) Just for lulz on Genbu.
7) Have you ever not done anything but Penta Thrust spam on any monster above level 85? (bad wording, figure it out) Uh... Assuming this means "Have I TP burned everything higher than level 85" Which the answer would be no, did Sky with some horribad LSs way back when.
8th and Final) Did anything you learned in your 3~8 months of getting from level 10 to 75 help you fight against Kirin? Where my WS button is, yeah. -
07-26-2011, 05:03 PMRunespider
Leeching is part of the game now and the leveling system is really easy anyway, even a brand new character can be taken to 90 in under a week (with some knowledge). Level cap quests take longer than the actual leveling process to 90, anyway being a sync is like being a key person in Aby... you are offering something so it's not really leeching.
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07-26-2011, 05:18 PMLeonlionheart
Every time a WHM refuses to use <stal>
I SEE A WHITE LIGHT OF NERD RAGE -
07-26-2011, 05:29 PMRunespiderI hate <stal>, seems really slow. I use a g15 keyboard that lets me press a button to target each person in the alliance though so...Quote:
Every time a WHM refuses to use <stal>
I SEE A WHITE LIGHT OF NERD RAGE
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07-26-2011, 05:57 PMLeonlionheartRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHQuote:
Originally Posted by Runespider
Everything turned out ok :)Quote:
I use a g15 keyboard that lets me press a button to target each person in the alliance though so...
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07-26-2011, 06:44 PMRosina
WoW. Honestly why do the "leechers" play this game anymore if they are THAT BORED they must "leech" to get anywhere. It is an mmorog guys. No need to rush. If you hate leveling mmorpg are not for you simple. Video games are meant to be played not cheated the whole way through. Also every leecher I personally met sucked at their class/job. And no amount of research can make you better. Only actively playing. It is sickening as a gamer to read this BS.
Leeching is NOT the way to level. If you do not like the job DO NOT LEVEL IT. Simple. Everyone who is a noobie to a class/game will be bad at it till they learn And so far. Everyone who leeched is bad. All they do is button mash fights and go lol when they steal hate. That isn't being good. That is playing dumb. Being great at your job is knowing when to do you skills/abilities in sync with your group, and in synce with a particular boss. Such as knowing when your turn is in a stun line on diablos. Reading does jack. Physically playing is what makes you good.