New Job Trait for Samurai. Bushido: Dual Wielding Great Katanas.

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Originally Posted by DarkBass

Well, floating weapons is something you can do with dats, you can make that happen.

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But does it deal extra damage? ha-HA!

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Originally Posted by Quetzacoatl

But does it deal extra damage? ha-HA!

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No, but you didnt say anything about extra damage XD

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Originally Posted by DarkBass

No, but you didnt say anything about extra damage XD

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It was implied, though...

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this idea. Unsure if it's mentioned in an earlier post, but Wouldn't it criple the point of even having Hasso or Seigan also? True or not that some Samurai were trained to wield two weapons in reality, doesn't necessarily mean it should be implemented in a game. Should just create a new class to be honest.

Asking for this is like asking to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class.

All and all, meant no disrespect with my post; Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Raka

I'm sorry, but I cannot support this idea. Unsure if it's mentioned in an earlier post, but Wouldn't it criple the point of even having Hasso or Seigan also? True or not that some Samurai were trained to wield two weapons in reality, doesn't necessarily mean it should be implemented in a game. Should just create a new class to be honest.

Asking for this is like asking to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class.

All and all, meant no disrespect with my post; Just my opinion.

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With all due respect, It is not like merging Ninja and Samurai into one class. Because by that logic, You are saying Thief and Dancer are the same as Ninja, simply because they natively have Dual Wield. Hasso and Seigan wouldn't be affected at all by this addition (At least as far as my idea for the mechanics of it goes)because Great Katanas are still two handed weapons. Just Samurai's Mastery of the weapon would allow them to wield two, provided the offhand one is a Kanesada type. I feel this is a valid addtion for the DEV's to at least consider, since a good selection of updates to Samurai have been based off real life teachings and disciplines, and this only reinforces one of Samurai's strongest points. Fast tp gain.

Unless you changed your Idea in the OP, this would not help them get TP faster, in fact if its still "Nerf offhand TP to 1/3rd TP" then it slows them down tremendously, because they're adding another 420 delay to their weapon, but only getting 1/3rd of the TP from said delay gain, meaning it would slow down the SAMs TP gain.

If you've changed the idea of the OP than you can ignore this.

Edit: and actually, after doing like, 3 minutes of research, i can't find any true Samurai training pertaining to the art of wielding 2 Large uchigatana or Katana class weapons Simultaneously. Most Samurai had a Large main weapon (Polearm, Staff, Katana) and a smaller weapon like a Tanto or Wakizashi:

From Wiki:

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Smaller commonly known companion swords are the wakizashi and the tanto.[33] A katana and a Wakizashi or tantō together are called a daishō (literally "big and small"), the wearing of a daisho became the symbol of the samurai as only a samurai was allowed to wear the daisho.

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I found it interesting Samurai also used Polearms and Bows well, as in FFXI... they also used this thing

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...px-YumiKai.gif

Look familiar? Reminds me of the Relic bow. Page Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi

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Originally Posted by Wataruryu

Heh, just had to put my two cents in on this one being a kenjutsu black belt. For those saying Samurai didn't duel wield two katana; I point you in the direction of Niten Ichi Ryu it is a style of sword fencing that was founded by The great Miyamoto Musashi. He according to which history you prescribe to had thousands of students, which are a whole lot of dual wielding samurai running around. In his style the second sword is also used as a throwing weapon. The style still exist and is practiced to this day. I got to go a seminar on it once it a pretty amazing sword style. Just some fun facts for yall to play with ^^

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Here's the research for you. But in my further explained mechanics was maybe the dev's doing something different with the added delay math when it comes to this, ao that its slightly slower but still a faster gain in tp.

That style of combat is, from what i can tell:

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Hyōhō Niten Ichi-ryū is mainly known for the two-sword—katana and wakizashi—kenjutsu techniques Musashi called Niten Ichi (二天一, "two heavens as one") or Nitō Ichi (二刀一, "two swords as one").

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a Great Katana, and a 1handed Katana, by FFXI standards, as its a Katana and a Wakizashi, a Large arm and a small arm.

I also found this: http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Nito.htm

and this Demonstration Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2YbZIEI5Gg

The guy on the right is the one using the Nito technique (during the first part of the video), however from the video you can tell one Katana is vastly smaller than the other, i think this was still a matter of a Large Weapon, and a Small weapon. (in FFXI Terms, a Great Katana, and a Katana)

That and if im reading it right the "Dual wield" Part was only a small portion of the technique/training, it also involved staff weapons, and a multitude of Single-Wielding techniques, in fact i think only 5 out of the ~40 some odd Techniques of that particular style of combat involved 2 weapons. Seen Here:

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Today the following sets of techniques (waza or kata) are transmitted:

Tachi Seiho—Twelve techniques with long sword.
Nito Seiho—Five techniques with two swords corresponding to the five forms in the Water Scroll.
Kodachi Seiho—Seven techniques with a short sword.
Bōjutsu—Twenty techniques with a staff.
Aikuchi roppo[2][3]
Jitte to jutsu—Five techniques against a sword

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(From Wiki) those are the techniques taught in Niten Ichi-Ryu, as you can see, Nito-Seiho is the only of the group involving 2 weapons.

So while it is in some way historically accurate (however it was a Large weapon (Katana) and a Small side arm (Wakizashi), not 2 Large weapons (Katana), it was only a small part of the Samurai's technique, even for the Niten Ichi-Ryu style.

I think it would likely be better as a Stance, similar to Hasso/Seigan in that case. but i don't know how that'd work.

Good finds. It would certainly be nice if we got to offhand a wakizashi. Would still fit the main point of faster tp gain. Would suck to have do all those skill ups but its nothing too difficult. I personally would like to see another great katana. SE has been creative with their additions so i dont think it would be too farfetched. But if this gets implimented and its a Great Katana and a katana id be happy.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

That style of combat is, from what i can tell:



a Great Katana, and a 1handed Katana, by FFXI standards, as its a Katana and a Wakizashi, a Large arm and a small arm.

I also found this: http://www.kampaibudokai.org/Nito.htm

and this Demonstration Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2YbZIEI5Gg

The guy on the right is the one using the Nito technique (during the first part of the video), however from the video you can tell one Katana is vastly smaller than the other, i think this was still a matter of a Large Weapon, and a Small weapon. (in FFXI Terms, a Great Katana, and a Katana)

That and if im reading it right the "Dual wield" Part was only a small portion of the technique/training, it also involved staff weapons, and a multitude of Single-Wielding techniques, in fact i think only 5 out of the ~40 some odd Techniques of that particular style of combat involved 2 weapons. Seen Here:



(From Wiki) those are the techniques taught in Niten Ichi-Ryu, as you can see, Nito-Seiho is the only of the group involving 2 weapons.

So while it is in some way historically accurate (however it was a Large weapon (Katana) and a Small side arm (Wakizashi), not 2 Large weapons (Katana), it was only a small part of the Samurai's technique, even for the Niten Ichi-Ryu style.

I think it would likely be better as a Stance, similar to Hasso/Seigan in that case. but i don't know how that'd work.

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Awesome some one took the time to look up some of the info I imparted. Just wanted to point out like I did in one of my other post, is that the wiki does fall short on some of the information on the style. There are more then five techniques to the dual wield aspect, and your right there many other aspects to the training that goes with the style; Such as hand to hand i.e. jujutsu, but that is indicative of all koryu arts. The handling of two large katana is taught mostly as a battle field tactic; Not the one on one duel kata that makes up a large part of a kenjutsu artist training, and thats what seen on youtube.
Think of it like this, in a large claustrophobic battle field you need to maximize the area space around you to up your odds of survival. You've lost your naginata (which would be the most optimal weapon in the situation). You look to one of the downed solders near you to pick up one of his swords, logically which one would you choose the short one or the long one to maximize the area of protection on both sides of the body; Since the bulk of the samurai fights took place on battle fields like this, they needed to train for these situations. That's pretty much how it was explained to me at the last seminar I attended on it, when I asked about the reasoning behind the techniques they where showing us.
Anyway I'm rambling I get to excited talking martial arts, and tend to do that. Back to my point. I think its awesome you took the time to look up something new, and formulated some very valid points based off the information you did find. Oh and like the new sig Kingfury hooked you up. The whole suggestive look and boink made me lol. ^^

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Originally Posted by DarkBass

I feel this is a valid addtion for the DEV's to at least consider, since a good selection of updates to Samurai have been based off real life teachings and disciplines, and this only reinforces one of Samurai's strongest points. Fast tp gain.

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Basically you're arguing the whole matter of giving Samurai the ability to dual wield with the weapon they specialize in for "faster TP gain"? I'm sorry, but Samurai has no problem with the way they accumulate TP and should some folks still have a problem with their TP accumulation, it will be less of an issue once Store TP V (and possibly Store TP VI by Lv.99) is added in the mix.

So my opinion still stands as is, no offense. Samurai does not need this ability. Just because it's an actual technique or teaching, etc. doesn't necessarily mean SquareEnix will(or should) impliment it.

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With all due respect, It is not like merging Ninja and Samurai into one class. Because by that logic, You are saying Thief and Dancer are the same as Ninja, simply because they natively have Dual Wield. Hasso and Seigan wouldn't be affected at all by this addition (At least as far as my idea for the mechanics of it goes)because Great Katanas are still two handed weapons. Just Samurai's Mastery of the weapon would allow them to wield two, provided the offhand one is a Kanesada type.

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Clearly you misunderstood my means of "Asking for this is like askin to merge Ninja and Samurai into one class." by thinking I was refering to "Dual Wield" only. To better explain my previous statement:

You are asking that Samurai attains the capability of either "Katana(1-Handed) usage in which Samurai now gets either a B- or A- in", "A new form of Weapon in which a whole new section of Weapon-type are to be created for the soul purpose of Off-hand usage for Samurai-specific only", or "The ability to wield two Great Katana."

Basically, it is in a sense just as though you want both Ninja characteristics and Samurai to be as one.

Please forgive me if any of this sounds as if I'm trolling or being rude in particular. No offense was intended while I wrote this. At any rate, I hope I had explained myself a little better.

You explained yourself well. And this was all on topic. No trace of Trolling at all

Its not that samurai has a problem accumulating tp, but it would accentuate its mastery over tp gain. I feel it would be something like this, If it comes down to offhanding another Great Katana it would really show individuality of this addtion with samurai. If it comes down to offhanding a wakizashi, I feel it would be like how ninja can use a Great katana. Efficent enough to be used for its purpose but not outshining. (I.E. TP Gain where as nin can use the elemental procs). If it comes down to just using a sword in the offhand it would simply be letting sam accentuate its tp gain mastery while joining in the shared joy of dual wielding like other jobs get.

As far as "needing" this job ability, no. its not a must. But neither was sengikori or sekkanoki. But they accentuated on another of sam's main traits. skillchain mastery. Wonderful additions that made sam even more fun to play, and i feel this would be right at home without breaking the game.

Go level NIN. I play SAM main and think this is an awful idea.

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Originally Posted by Kazaki

Go level NIN. I play SAM main and think this is an awful idea.

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What does this statement suppose to even mean really? and why do you think this is an awful idea other than the fact you dont agree with it? Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it an awful idea. I welcome some explained feedback sir.

I vote yes. I use to play "Yagyu Jubei" on Samurai Showdown all the time. It can be done. It will only take a little work to desgin the stance of each race. As for being Over powered, a balance system will need to be put in place for main hand and off-hand.

This is only an example: A weapon place in the offhand is reduce in power by whatever % the Dev Team feel is fair.

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Originally Posted by Glacont

It can be done. It will only take a little work to desgin the stance of each race.

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Another reason why we'll never see this implemented.

Lets just call this trait "Muchkin".

That is a really amusing game, you know.

....if sam's should get the ability to dual-wield GK then everyone should get to dual-wield everything.

That said... I want to be able to Dual-wield Staffs and I also want ninja to be able to dual-wield their dual-wield.

O....M.....Gawd! I thought this thread was a myth!

Hes talking about this, and if u ask me it looks really cool in fighting games just not something FFXI can make work.
http://home8.swipnet.se/~w-85694/images/ss23.jpg

Lets make it subbable like Dual Wield so DRK can dual wield scythes and great swords, WAR can dual wield great axes and DRG can dual wield lances. When dual welding two handed weapons the ACC/ATT bonus will be rescinded to keep things fair.

Great Katanas look awesome wielded with both hands on the grip, they would look goofy with a huge sword in each hand. I trust that S-E COULD make it look good (and unlike say the goofy barbarians in diablo), but I don't think it's necissary.

I'd rather have the opposite and have Ninjas use only one katana. Because ninjas look awesome with only one katana.

*a mechanical benefit for doing so of course. Redmages can also equip hth's if they wanted but there's no benefit for that.

You can do that by unequipping your sub slot weapon.

If you're gonna dual wield great katanas, I want to dual wield staves on smn and blm.

I only bothered to read the OP, so I'm sure others have pointed this out: Seriously, this idea has been put forward 5 million times, has absolutely no place in FFXI and 99% of the player base think it's a completely stupid idea.

I got to hand it to the op, not only did he suggest the dumbest crap I ever read on this forum that would not work, but I'm knocking down rdm dd ideas as #1 dumbest suggestion ever and making dual wield gkt take it's place.


Dual wielding guns, now there's an idea worth a thought

GKATANA dual wield ups your Parry rate and slows attacking
. Now it has a place for super tank mode.

How about this: Give stupid Samurais their dual weild weapons but then remove Hasso and Seigen and give it to DRG and DRK since these jobs ONLY use 2h hand weapons. Hasso/Seigen wouldn't work for SAM if they dual wield, might as well give it to another job that makes better use of it. DRK and DRG ONLY use 2h weapons so they ought to get it, WAR uses 2h too but they also specialize in 1h axe so it's unfitting for them(plus they don't need it).

hey guise, i think we really need to look into the possibility of PLDs dual wielding Ochain's and Aegis'! because in real-life, i can hold two shields at once.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been specifically mentioned, but there IS a job that Dual wields using a Wakizashi! It exists already.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Wakizashi

see? If you want to Dual Wield with a Wakizashi.... Level Ninja <.<

But wouldn't the delay from the 2nd weapon ruin the whole store tp set up that makes sam in this game?

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Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi

But wouldn't the delay from the 2nd weapon ruin the whole store tp set up that makes sam in this game?

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That's a Good Question. It would depend upon how the Dev Team Approaches this scenario if dual weild is put into practice.

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give Samurai a trait representative or derivative of Nitojutsu (i.e. Augmenting a 2H weapon with a 1H weapon equiped in the offhand slot) --

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I wonder if this was originally what SE intended, but eventually put the idea on the backburner: if you play around with Altana View, you'll find that Great Katanas can be set as main-hand weapons for dual-wield animations, meaning it's possible (in the viewer, at least) to wield a Great Katana and a one-handed katana or sword at the same time. You can't do this with other two-handed weapons; not even great swords (although I believe it's possible to wield great swords, or even polearms, scythes and great axes while equipping a shield in the viewer)

Since, in game, Great Katanas are flagged as 2 handed weapons, there's coding in the way right now of doing it, but in terms of programming, all they would have to do is add a trait to Samurai that worked like Dual Wield when a great katana is equipped in the main hand. Mechanically, the game is already set up to allow such.

As for how to balance such an ability... this is Samurai we're talking about.

Its nice to see this thread continued, sad to see the laziness people have for not reading all the design ideas people have been throwing around, or not reading the intelligent disagreements made already. The point is, if SE did impliment this, it would work. They design and code the game. They can tweak it however they want. Hell they nerfed restraint and im not even sure why. From a firsthand experience it didn't seem broken. Point is, all of you people that think this idea is stupid simply because you don't agree with it and the lackluster attempt to give a reason is "it wouldn't work" Is just not valid.

They run the game so they can make it work anyway they like/see fit. Please come with something more than a one line response in disagreement at an attempt to make others laugh lol.

dual wielding for sams is something I really really miss, I want my SAM to be able to use Niten Ichiryuu. Katana + wakizashi (miyamoto musashi anyone?).
I am honestly confused that samurais in ffxi just can use Nodachis and no normal katanas. We dont even get that special nodachi drawing style that Sephiroth uses in Ehrgeiz, which is a well known style.

Seem's like SE's reference to draw style is the kasha and fudo weaponskills. If anything that style would probably be best implimented as a pre ws ja.

http://i44.tinypic.com/125rhw1.jpg

Hilarious lmao

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Originally Posted by DarkBass

Hilarious lmao

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Well if SAM can dual wield GK's, then I expect WAR to dual wield GA's.

As amusing as this ability seems, I can see this being added to our list of potential two-hour merits.