Please remove the option to close own threads.

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Originally Posted by Octaviane

I think it's perfectly fine to close/lock your own thread, especially when a post made for fun turns into a brawl/hate fest against other players/forums/SE/Devs/Mods. That is not positive or useful discussion. To bad it seems to be the general direction most Forum users take these days. We all have opinions and are entitled to them, but it would be nice to see people lighten up and remember this is just a game.

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Mods/GM's/People-who-get-paid-to-do-this Should then Close the threads. It should not be at Player Discretion.

You know why? GMs/Devs are paid to be neutral, the OP is not. He can be whiny and close a thread just because someone says "I don't like your idea". Not everyone has as noble a cause and self control as you seem to make it sound.

The problem is just because while yes, you make it sound like a logical stop, not everyone who makes a thread is logical, and sometimes OP's close a thread simply because they didn't get the exact response they wanted.

It leads to people being unable to discuss topics.

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

I like the option. I have used it. It is great for when trolls and idiots come and derail a thread that has an actual purpose with flaming and such. I say keep it!

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case and point. He not only closed his topic but now insults the posters in that topic, acting no better than they were.

People get power-hungry when they get the slightest bone tossed at them, they'll abuse the locking ability and more often than not make a snappy quip before locking the thread.

Its just something only Mods should do. No other forum allows you to lock your own thread for good reason, Average people aren't logical or Neutral, Devs/Gms are paid to be. even though they aren't perfect, they're fair more reasonable than the average poster.

GMs might be paid, but I doubt any of the mods get paid at all.

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Originally Posted by katz

When your subject is changed to mean something else, why should you want it left open when the topic it was started on isnt the answers you are getting back are on a totally different subject. The thread yesterday turned form a discussion about lotting rules into a discussion about what linkshell rules should or should not apply. It had nothing to do with the topic needing to be discussed but the thread was hi jacked into a totally different discussion. This was why the original thread was closed. If people dont want to respond to the questions being asked but decide to go off topic why shouldnt the original op close it.

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Because if the answer isn't one you don't like, and you close it because you don't like the answer, it is the same as running away from the main problem. Maybe your point of view is the one that is incorrect, not everyone else's point of view.

Think about that.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

GMs might be paid, but I doubt any of the mods get paid at all.

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The moderators are the same people as the current GM staff. They handle both in-game and in-forum issues. For example, I've had some hilarious GM calls answered by Emdub.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ll=1#post44035

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...e8cc6f48a6.png

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

case and point. He not only closed his topic but now insults the posters in that topic, acting no better than they were.

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I am not insulting anyone. If you go back and look at the ONE thread of mine I have closed, it got completely DERAILED by people who came in to purposely troll and flame it. They were in fact being idiots. I even gave 2 warnings asking that the thread please be brought back on track or I would close it. People didn't listen, so I did. I didn't say everyone in the topic was an idiot but by page 3 of postings, the thread by that point had absolutely nothing to do with the original post. I DON'T agree with people who close threads just because they get disagreed with. If you can't stand to have a discussion with people who both agree and disagree with you, you missed the point of a discussion. That kind of abuse is what makes people want an option like this gone. I DO agree with someone being able to close their own thread because trolls and idiots flame and derail it. This kind of abuse is what makes this option a great idea. Sadly, both sides of this coin can't be controlled by anyone. I stand by my previous statement.

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Originally Posted by katz

My statement still stands, when you ask specifically for answer to If you could change the lotting system as it stood in SE what would you change, turned into some debate about linkshells right to make rules or not what the original topic was about at all.

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Your post was more about warning threads and a roundabout way of saying you see nothing wrong in ninja lotting since it's not breaking the ToS. The "what would you change about the lotting system"-question was thrown in at the end as what seemed like an afterthought.

You were the one bringing up linkshell lotting rules etc - in your very first post. Doing that, you can't expect people not to respond to it.

while i think locking your thread because you don't agree is wrong i do have to say both www.gamefaqs.com and www.gamespot.com let there users lock there own threads once they reach a sertin level of karma.

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Originally Posted by katz

Actually it was a quote from someone else that i started as a new thread to start looking at a way to review the lotting system.

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The first paragraph was a quote, yes - not the rest. The post can still be read here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post134088

I love how the examples of abuse of power keep rolling in.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ardcore-flags.

Closed because people didn't agree. This power should be Rep/GM hands only...

Being able to close a thread is a necessary tool.

There are WAY many more forums that allow their users to close their own threads. It is a necessary, basic fundamental tool of the rudimentary elements of ANY successful forum and denying its use for the every day user is just harmful. Moderators can tell you that the ability to lock threads (not by just moderators, but users as well) showed a decline in bad behavior among users.

Moderators aren't reading the forums 24-7. There is not a computer that scans human behavior based on text that meets a criteria and alerts moderators of a thread getting out of control. The thread creator should have the right to cease any new posts in their topic - whether you like it or not.

If you disagree with this, maybe you shouldn't come here any more. A lot of you seem against a lot of what SE is doing with their forum.

Arguing against it just because it's being abused is futile. Abuse happens everywhere. We shouldn't have politicians anywhere because there are politicians abusing their power. Yet good things come from some politicians. The same concept applies here, people.

We have elections which determine who we want to be politicians, not everyone can just waltz in and start writing laws. No one elected you to be grand poobah in charge of thread closing.

Would it be ok to give parents the right to kill their children? Sure it might be abused in some cases, but then again lots of good could come from it.

That example too extreme for you? How about this. You go to poetry night at your local bar, start reciting your poems and ppl throw tomatoes at you. Do you have the right to force everyone out of the door and close the place down? Hint: the answer is no.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

We have elections which determine who we want to be politicians, not everyone can just waltz in and start writing laws.

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That's right, the mobs of people who elect politicians to be lawmakers are the ones to blame for the corruption....err....another topic I guess.

That's a horrible example. And elections still elect corrupt politicians. And some countries do allow parents to kill their children - it's called abortion. Lots of bad, and lots of good. Depends on how you look at it.

Thread closing being an option to the thread creator is still a better, more effective way of "moderating" a forum. You can't change this, no matter what you say.

I kindof made an unintended point.

Not only do we not need a close thread option, but we as forum users and posters need to learn a little moderation ourselves.

I mean yeah, sure, we could get out of hand without realizing it every now and then, but still....

This is ticking me off.

I spent 10 minutes writing a nice page-long response to the "Introduce yourself" thread, and when I click reply the forums are just all "Blah blah the thread is locked, suckah!"

Threads are open less than a day now and people ragequit and lock them before they even hit 3 pages? I am so sick of this feature.

Actually, he moved that thread to a renamed thread, I guess he didn't know you could rename the thread yourself.

I did rename it, but the change did not affect what is displayed on the topic list.

I apologize for your inconvenience Greatguardian.

*future SE rep* (but no really, sorry, man)

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

That's a horrible example. And elections still elect corrupt politicians.

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Sure, but there is gonna be a metric shitload more corruption if people start writing their own laws though.

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And some countries do allow parents to kill their children - it's called abortion

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fetus =/= child, but let's not get into that argument.

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Thread closing being an option to the thread creator is still a better, more effective way of "moderating" a forum. You can't change this, no matter what you say.

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I have yet to see a single thread closed by the OP which I think deserved it.

EDIT: Also, what about poetry night?

I knew I missed something. The poetry night example was skewed, as well. Internet, anonymity rules; in real life, there is no anonymity. People will hold their opinions whether you like it or not. Just because I close a topic doesn't mean someone else can make a new one and restate the ideas/arguments there.

"I have yet to see a single thread closed by the OP which I think deserved it."

Bold: where your argument is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

"I have yet to see a single thread closed by the OP which I think deserved it."

Bold: where your argument is flawed.

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Yeah well unless you have some objective criteria with which to judge whether or not a thread should be closed, then we are basically arguing our opinions.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

I did rename it, but the change did not affect what is displayed on the topic list.

I apologize for your inconvenience Greatguardian.

*future SE rep* (but no really, sorry, man)

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Well that makes more sense. D'oh.

It is a matter of opinion. The thread creator can close their own topics if they feel it won't be beneficial to anyone to continue the thread in the context of the topic.

I have my own criteria for closing my topics:

1. Has it been responded to by a representative in a positive or negative manner?
2. Is the thread generating any meaningful discussion?

If 2 is always true, I will never close my topics. There is nothing meaningful in "you're so lazy you won't buy a warp cudgel." The same holds true for "you can't do basic math." I don't care what supporting details there are for those statements - they're still meaningless and hold nothing of value to me or anyone else short of the poster's own e-peen. Thus the topic gets closed - and if someone wants to continue it elsewhere, that's perfectly fine with me.

The fact people so adamantly deny wanting to lose the power to close threads, something that should have remained a moderator/Rep/GM power to begin with, is just proof of how power hungry people get when they get a taste of it.

I reiterate my original point, Posters are not neutral, they are biased, if a thread they create doesn't go like they want it, they can lock it, even if other posters were right in the middle of a interesting debate. Sometimes people debate things that can actually lead to decent information, but now unless you keep it directly on the OPs topic 9/10 You're getting a thread-lock and a smart-a** comment by some arrogant fool who thinks he's gods hand because he can close a thread.

Its too much power for the average poster. Rather you want to come out of your whole and accept it or not, When you create a thread on any internet forum, You have basically just signed an agreement to accept any positives and negatives that come with making a thread, this is of course withing the extent the rules of the forum dictate.

If something is truly in need of closing, a GM Will do it. Plain and simple, Look around, they do it all the time. This power needs to be removed. It leaves room for absolutely nothing but petty abuse of the system.

While obviously very subjective, I have yet to see one single positive example of why someone closing their own thread should remain. Every time i see a locked thread its either a GM (as it should be) or some OP Who didn't like where the topic was going (Rather it was meaningful discussion or not) and closed it.

It should not be up to players to decide when to lock a thread, Again, They are not neutral, they are biased. GMS/Reps/Mods/etc are pretty much bound by rules and paid to be neutral. It should be their duty. Look at many of the threads started by an OP who doesn't Rage-Lock a thread at the first sign of disagreeance or deviation from the OP.

Ones that go on for multiple pages. Chances our the Conversation has deviated from the OP in some areas, and some areas the conversations get a little heated, but all in all, good information eventually surfaces, and theres something to learn from it, because sometimes heated debate is where some of the better information comes from.

Would i agree that being civil all the time would be better? Hell yes, But you can't expect that of humans anymore than you can expect the earth to stop spinning, and sadly your basic poster does not seem to understand that.

If the discussion got too "heated" again, GMs, Report button. It works.

Everytime some one closes a thread should start another one with thier last response as the opener. Couple people are already doing this.

I was in the middle of the lastest relic/emp when it got to mystics and got lock.

Most people don't see a problem withthis forum feature, some do. Hmm reminiscent of another thread..

Anyway Square obviously see value in it no matter what anyone else says, I doubt they will change it so learn to live with it or don't post anymore? :P

I do think they should be dealing with people abusing it though.

Opinion, opinion, opinion - can you give me one real fact why people shouldn't be able to close their own threads? All I'm hearing is "Wahh, wahh, wahh, I can't put my opinion on teh intarwebz."

People can also reopen threads that the GMs have closed for being offtopic or flamefests.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

Opinion, opinion, opinion - can you give me one real fact why people shouldn't be able to close their own threads? All I'm hearing is "Wahh, wahh, wahh, I can't put my opinion on teh intarwebz."

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Because I can just reopen any thread that is closed as my own and even quote the first closed thread in both original topic and first post?

That is one real fact why people shouldn't have the option of closing threads, it causes clutter in the forum, because I'll just reopen it under my name.

That's when the delete button comes in handy.

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Originally Posted by katz

And the debate rages on.
If you start a topic that is based on let say FFXI and it changes to become a cooking discussion, what you are saying is the original person who wanted to know about ffxi doesnt have the right to close the thread down because its not staying on topic but you want to pay someone else to go close it down for you because you like to see the topic ffxi being used to discuss cooking.

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Because if the topic went from playing Paladin to cooking a pie, by terms of service agreement we all made when we signed up to this forum that is an automatic banable offence. This forum is for FFXI and FFXI only. Why do you think it is called "FFXI official forum?"

Now, if the topic goes from "Relic/Mystic/Emp staves are worthless" to "Summoner Melee is worthless" then that is, by extension, on topic. Because which of the jobs able to equip any relic/mystic/emp staves are able to melee without compromising their set role? Is it plausible for a BLM or SCH to melee when they are supposed to be nuking? Only SMN can get away with meleeing, because the people who let the SMN melee are too....<insert derogatory comment here>...to know otherwise. But yeah, it is still on topic.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

Opinion, opinion, opinion - can you give me one real fact why people shouldn't be able to close their own threads? All I'm hearing is "Wahh, wahh, wahh, I can't put my opinion on teh intarwebz."

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Simple. The option to close your own thread directly allows players to open threads that a GM has locked.

I'd imagine their web designer is getting a reaming sometime today, but I highly doubt there's anything they can do to fix it aside from simply removing the OP ability to open/close threads.

my question to thos for getting rid of the close topic button is this. say i ask for a clarification on sum thing the dev's post and it is ancerd why should i not be alaed to lock it? the post was ancerd why keep it open?

i ask because am on the fence about this i see both sides and thus cane make up my mind

Because there is still valuable discussion to be had after a community rep answers.

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Originally Posted by katz

And the debate rages on.
If you start a topic that is based on let say FFXI and it changes to become a cooking discussion, what you are saying is the original person who wanted to know about ffxi doesnt have the right to close the thread down because its not staying on topic but you want to pay someone else to go close it down for you because you like to see the topic ffxi being used to discuss cooking.

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That seems like an Extreme example, But to answer this extreme example, Its a GMs/Moderator's Job to do this. Not ours. If a topic goes off your discussion into fruit pies, No its not your right to close a thread, Its your right to report the people doing it so a GM closes it. But no, It should not be your right to do it yourself.

Again I make the argument, Common folk aren't neutral, They're biased petty insecure people who for the most part can't handle disagreement or constructive criticism. giving them the power to stop everything is simply asking for this forum to deteriorate into locked topics and undiscussed conversations.

Hell you can even unlock a thread when a GM locked it. Somethings wrong with that too.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

Opinion, opinion, opinion - can you give me one real fact why people shouldn't be able to close their own threads? All I'm hearing is "Wahh, wahh, wahh, I can't put my opinion on teh intarwebz."

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Can you give me some facts on why we should keep it? All i hear is "Waah waah waah I want to be able to deny and stop anyones voice or opinion at a moments notice because i can't handle constructive criticism"

Point is, Locking a thread is a mod power, and should stay as such. If you feel your topic is going away from what you wanted, who gives a frock, If a conversation got to the point it was off topic and nothing positive was coming from it, a GM would lock the thread. As it should be.

Conversations will almost never stay 100% on topic. Side-Conversaitons/debates happen on every website. Most of these are productive and generally lead to some positive information. Some aren't. Those that aren't get deleted/Locked, Those that are now also get deleted/locked if the OP is incapable of handling the fact his topic isn't being discussed in the butt-kissing manner he had hoped.

This leads to an unhealthy environment for discussion, because if the OP decide this discussion isn't worth his time, thread is locked, and conversation ends.

You can always re-open the topic by starting a new one, But then i ask you, why bother having a lock thread option if its possible to simply start another thread quoting the OP and continue the discussion, making the entire locking pointless to begin with?

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Originally Posted by katiekat

my question to thos for getting rid of the close topic button is this. say i ask for a clarification on sum thing the dev's post and it is ancerd why should i not be alaed to lock it? the post was ancerd why keep it open?

i ask because am on the fence about this i see both sides and thus cane make up my mind

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Thats probably the kind of thing people had in mind when they instituted this, and is the only positive reasoning behind the entire patch.

But also remember sometimes a lot is left to be discussed after a Dev response, Especially the actual response.

i would like to get a rep's response to this topic see what SE thinks

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Originally Posted by katiekat

i would like to get a rep's response to this topic see what SE thinks

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This conversation is far to "heated" to see a Rep response i think :X. Plus they might not even be able to comment on Website issues?

Could just do it if they don't want to remove it that the thread can not be reopened when locked and that you can't open multiple topics for a set period of time in between opening one.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Could just do it if they don't want to remove it that the thread can not be reopened when locked and that you can't open multiple topics for a set period of time in between opening one.

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While good, It wouldn't solve the core problem.

Which is only that some people simply should not be given the power to lock threads. Because if you check all the player locked threads they're either

A) Mockingly Locked (locked because they can/for fun/to show its abuse)

B) Locked because the OP Didn't like where conversation was going
*B2 Generally When the above happens, The OP leaves a Snarky-Aggressive "I am god" response before locking

C) Legitimately locked because OP Got an answer to his question
*C2 Sometimes conversation within the thread aren't properly fleshed. More information could come from this thread to help future readers.

--- The problem is A and B outweigh C 100 to 1, and sometimes C isn't even that positive*. Which is why i say the System is open for abuse. its not that it wasn't a good idea on paper, Its just common posters should not have that power, because it leads to pettiness and abuse.

*For instance, Say you're having a discussion on merits for XXX job, a few people respond, and it turns into a better/worse debate on pros/cons of those merits. however the OP Decides "I got enough info" and locks the thread. Now a debate which could help future readers (I.E fully learning pros and cons of certain merit choices) has been shut down, unfinished.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

While good, It wouldn't solve the core problem.

Which is only that some people simply should not be given the power to lock threads. Because if you check all the player locked threads they're either

A) Mockingly Locked (locked because they can/for fun/to show its abuse)

B) Locked because the OP Didn't like where conversation was going
*B2 Generally When the above happens, The OP leaves a Snarky-Aggressive "I am god" response before locking

C) Legitimately locked because OP Got an answer to his question
*C2 Sometimes conversation within the thread aren't properly fleshed. More information could come from this thread to help future readers.

--- The problem is A and B outweigh C 100 to 1, and sometimes C isn't even that positive*. Which is why i say the System is open for abuse. its not that it wasn't a good idea on paper, Its just common posters should not have that power, because it leads to pettiness and abuse.

*For instance, Say you're having a discussion on merits for XXX job, a few people respond, and it turns into a better/worse debate on pros/cons of those merits. however the OP Decides "I got enough info" and locks the thread. Now a debate which could help future readers (I.E fully learning pros and cons of certain merit choices) has been shut down, unfinished.

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True enough, I suppose they could add a vote to unlock?!

It's tricky because it's a decent idea as it allows less strict moderating, but obviously as said it can and is being abused.