Revamp Elemental Spells to Be More Logical and Realistic

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Originally Posted by Eeek

No Rambus, you're not talking about the adjustment I mentioned. Here's a post I found that adequately described the problem: {Click here to read the thread}.

If you want, I can find and link the BG thread that described the same problems and documented SE's response to the player outcry.

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I do not take those boards seriously, i think you are full of it, i never herd any of this

where is the official comments made by SE? I am not going to play a game of dig the information from misinformation and troll attacking.

wait wtf what you linked is a bug -.-

Nah, it was "working as intended" until there were too many outraged mages to ignore. And multi-page threads angrily discussing the problem on every FFXI forum.

Back then, it was unprecedented for the Devs to apologize for any adjustments to game mechanics, and I still think they only called it a bug as a way to save face.

Rambus, I'm stunned that you never noticed this adjustment. At the time, my only 'mage' was BRD, and even I noticed the adjustment immediately.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

Nah, it was "working as intended" until there were too many outraged mages to ignore. And multi-page threads angrily discussing the problem on every FFXI forum.

Back then, it was unprecedented for the Devs to apologize for any adjustments to game mechanics, and I still think they only called it a bug as a way to save face.

Rambus, I'm stunned that you never noticed this adjustment. At the time, my only 'mage' was BRD, and even I noticed the adjustment immediately.

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GMs always say that, if SE posted something on official site i like to see it because dyna mobs most of them have no affiliation with darkness, if they did you would not be able to aspir them. (baring formers/dogs/ heca pets off top of my head)

so i think your viewpoint in "SE tried potency changes vs element def" is false.

It was the update that made it so we couldn't land Sleep on anything anymore. You've gotta remember it. <_< It was pretty much every mage's nightmare. Iirc, I tried a Dynamis - Tav and got royally raped by Hydra that could no longer be slept.

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Originally Posted by Eeek

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Originally Posted by Karinya_of_Carbuncle

...I would support a move to increase the difference between resist rates for different elements at high levels, if SE was inclined to do that, but I don't think the OP's proposal is necessary, or possibly even desirable. There are enough different nukes already and the fact that the tiers are really more like steps on a continuous scale is fine with me.

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SE did do something along these lines in the spring of 2009. SE changed magic accuracy and potency so that it was no longer possible to overpower a mob's natural elemental resistances.

All hell broke loose.

SE eventually rolled back the unannounced nerf to magic and went so far as to apologize for the 'mistake.'

SE got burned once by messing too much with the magic system, and I hope they don't do it again. Aside from certain mages wanting access to certain spells (for example, RDMs and SCHs seem to want Cure5), the magic system works fairly well.

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byrth...I am not refuting that bug never happened, i am refuting this point of view, GMS ALWAYS say working as intended even if something is a bug.

I am refuting:
"SE tried potency changes vs element def already"

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Originally Posted by Rambus

GMs always say that, if SE posted something on official site i like to see it because dyna mobs most of them have no affiliation with darkness, if they did you would not be able to aspir them. (baring formers/dogs/ heca pets off top of my head)

so i think your viewpoint in "SE tried potency changes vs element def" is false.

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Your memory is a little foggy. I found something that will help, though.

Here's a link to a forum discussion that you started on the subject: {Killing Ifrit BLM Forum}is se tryign to gimp blm/ [sic].

Well, the definitive proof is a link to the update notes where they broke it. After they "fixed it," it went back to being how it was before the update. So if there was something in the update notes about adjusting magic, then it was intentional and later dubbed a bug.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

It was the update that made it so we couldn't land Sleep on anything anymore. You've gotta remember it. <_< It was pretty much every mage's nightmare. Iirc, I tried a Dynamis - Tav and got royally raped by Hydra that could no longer be slept.

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I didn't have any mage at the time and I still noticed it.

"Everyone starts casting Sleepga."
"The Vanguard Army still defeats Arcon."

All the elemental nukes should have a base damage around Fire~Blizzard and elemental weakness should work exactly like day/weather bonuses. Weak to Earth? Stone has a 33% chance at +10% damage, with whatever gear making it 100%. Cast Thunder, -10% damage (or whatever it is). Having the base damage around Fire~Blizzard would hopefully mean we're doing the same damage, I'm not working this out so I highly doubt it is balanced, but ideally Stone V on a monster weak to Earth would deal the same as Thunder V would deal currently (ignore the fact we don't have Thunder V yet) and Thunder V on a monster weak to Lightning would deal the exact same amount of damage. Along with this I'd expect MP cost and cast time to all be equal, overall that would be a reduction on Thunder Vs cost obviously, but a significant increase on Stone Vs, etc.
I don't see a reason to give all elemental nukes for a single tier at the same time. That's a massive change to the system that is likely out right impossible. I highly doubt my suggestion is viable either though, but it would be far easier to implement if FFXI didn't have spaghetti code. Balancing the new base damage, MP cost and cast time would be the only issues and they're fairly simple to work out, SE isn't paying me though so I'm not about to number crunch how to make the magic system superficially the same but fundamentally better. If it is considered though, please please please give Black Mage a level 45 job trait that makes the damage bonus for weakness proc 100% of the time and similarly give Scholar a level 45 job trait that makes weather/day bonuses proc 100%.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I am refuting:
"SE tried potency changes vs element def already"

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that does not show SE had potency changes vs element def.

If it effected damage AT ALL it was barly noticalbe

dyna mobs, for the most of them are not dark element, even if it takes place in dark weather place that does not prove it was 1/2 because they had a dark def.

I am not refuting the bug I am refuting your view on that change.

back to this:

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Originally Posted by Eeek

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Originally Posted by Karinya_of_Carbuncle

...I would support a move to increase the difference between resist rates for different elements at high levels, if SE was inclined to do that, but I don't think the OP's proposal is necessary, or possibly even desirable. There are enough different nukes already and the fact that the tiers are really more like steps on a continuous scale is fine with me.

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SE did do something along these lines in the spring of 2009. SE changed magic accuracy and potency so that it was no longer possible to overpower a mob's natural elemental resistances.

All hell broke loose.

SE eventually rolled back the unannounced nerf to magic and went so far as to apologize for the 'mistake.'

SE got burned once by messing too much with the magic system, and I hope they don't do it again. Aside from certain mages wanting access to certain spells (for example, RDMs and SCHs seem to want Cure5), the magic system works fairly well.

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