New gear issue: Kick attacks?

I don't think giving shoes skill+ the good fix but have main weapon skill affect kick dmg.
if SE makes Urat's fix (kick dmg only fixed by shoes) :
-a rigor/manibozo feet have about same DPS using footwork or not
-a ao2-4/manibozo have same dmg per hit than rigor(minus +stat) but high multi attack, only downside is WS restriction to DK/TK
=> lvl99 h2h>new h2h as long as new feets match skill/dmg of new weapon

now let's give feet urat's +dmg value (even if he forgot footwork base +dmg, just count it in the +dmg value)
rigor+mani=69+144=213
oa2-4:(424+16)*.11+3+144=195

~10% dmg/hit VS multi rate, depending on how much da/ta/qa you have before oax might still win

porposal: change skill/kick dmg
make it so it still make footwork< h2h with "normal" shoes and add kick dmg shoes that close the gap

I'd love to know how the Development Bros plan to deal with lots of stuff in light of weapon damage, attack, and accuracy skyrocketing. It seems like anything unique to a melee job and thus not tied to all of those things, whether that thing is Kick Attacks or Blue Magic or Lunges, is suffering.

Not that Monk is in a bad place right now, or that using Footwork as opposed to just benefiting from the Kick Attacks job trait for extra attacks has ever actually been good outside of a brief time at level 80; it just drives me nuts that all melee jobs are seemingly being squished together in a way that doesn't even improve the power balance of jobs in the process. The squishing process.

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Originally Posted by Motenten

while the devs somehow seem to think that 2% KA is just as good as 2% DA when they make gear; I can't explain that one

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I can. However, the explanation would be roughly seven pages long and centered around a mentally challenged busboy named Benny who lived in Beloit, WI circa 1987.

The short version is this: Two weeks before being struck and instantly killed by a car while biking to work one Tuesday morning, Benny learned to transmit his thoughts through space and time by licking a frayed wire at the back of his microwave.

If they fix Kick Attacks (in my opinion by tying the damage to the weapon, thus avoiding this issue for the life of the game remaining), then the part of kick-related effects that Monks care about will at least be solved. Nobody really cares about Footwork (aka: turn your Monk into a Samurai without Hasso). Footwork would need an actual purpose, as others said, to ever be activated. I quite suspect that if they were to check server logs, they would see that it's possibly the least used JA of every JA on every job, ever.

For additional damage, people could still use kick boots (with damage tied to the weapon), thus creating an interesting scenario where monks have to make choices about which boots to use, again (Kick DMG vs something like Manibozho, for example). A higher tier Kick boot with solid stats would be nice as well..

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Originally Posted by Urat

This would make footworks an actually useful, but not necessarily the best, ability for monks to experiment with using.

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I'm not sure about this. Increasing damage on Footwork wouldn't be enough, as I explained in a post I made in this forum some months ago (altough that was written before the "revolution" of SoA)

Before fixing the damage of Footwork, they would need to give the JA a purpose, otherwise we risk it becoming just a cosmetic JA that makes you do more or less the same damage (or a bit less) but performed with kicks instead than punches plus occasional kicks.


One possible purpose to the JA could be that of making MNK attack slower with stronger attacks. The final DPS would be a bit lower, but it would be a different way of doing damage that could be situationally useful. For example in situations where you want to minimize the TPfeed over time.
There could be other purposes to the JA but I can't think of anything else atm.

To achieve this the first thing they should implement is a multiple attacks stats conversion.
Every +KA, +DA, +TA, +QA bonus should be converted into something else. What? I don't know, for example +base damage.
Similar to how KA on legs slots was additional multiple attacks and KA on feet was additional base damage.
They should also find a way to make the weapon you equip matter somehow, with the previous Footwork (remember how powerful it was at level 80/85?) damage and delay on main weapon were completely ignored.

Would also need a revamp on Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. The only difference during footwork is that they use Feet base damage instead of Weapon damage, and this is not enough.
This (or anything else) is not going to happen ayway, we all know it.

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Originally Posted by Karah

No one in the history of ever, has ever cared, nor used footwork, more or less at any point for any reason.

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Actually at level 80 and for a good part of the 85 cap MNK/SAM using OA and Footwork was likely the strongest DD in game, it was insane.

Altough it was kinda a way to exploit what has always been, as you said, a broken JA.
The fact it never really worked though doesn't mean that nobody cares or that it shouldn't be "fixed".
But I'll agree with the fact that given the current good position MNK is standing within the game balance (perhaps too good, up to the point I'm scared a nerf might come :'( ) and given their limited resources, SE should probably focus on other aspects of the game before caring about Footwork.

My 2 Cents:

1) Footwork hasn't been a sensible option outside OAT (~lvl 80 cap and pre-nerf) and the first 2 days of it's existence (pre-nerf also). [If anyone isn't aware of the original nerf, basically, Asuran Fists with FW up gave you back full TP for every hit, instead of 1 TP for all additional hits].

2) Any adjustment to Kick Attacks at this stage in the game should be under the effects of footwork only. MNK is already BY FAR the best DD in the game right now, and doing minimal damage with kicks just to get the extra TP is just fine. Sh1t, it's not like anyone really went out of their way to gear for +kick damage in a TP set, just in case KA procced.

I used to use dune boots with 25% haste specifically to get that additional damage, and at that time, it was well worth it - not only was it fun to kick for higher damage than I punched for, but it made me feel proud to have gone out of my way to incorporate that aspect of the job into my build. Unfortunately, the days of kicking for more than you punch for are long gone.

Still waiting for them to adjust Boost/Chakra. People don't use Boost anymore since it slows damage down in high haste situations. Maybe the potency of boost should be multiplied by 2x however reduce the number of times it can be stacked. Thus after using boosting 5-6x under that adjustment, it would the same as using boost 12x in its current state, so you can reach the maximum boost potency sooner. Chakra need some adjusting. Dragoons can self heal for 1200-2000+ with Healing Breath, which is a 60 second recast, Chakra heals for what like 300-600ish and its a 5min timer? I know it's comparing apples to oranges because MNK has many, many other things DRG doesn't but at least shorten it to maybe 3min and increase its potency or VIT modifier.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Still waiting for them to adjust Boost/Chakra. People don't use Boost anymore since it slows damage down in high haste situations. Maybe the potency of boost should be multiplied by 2x however reduce the number of times it can be stacked. Thus after using boosting 5-6x under that adjustment, it would the same as using boost 12x in its current state, so you can reach the maximum boost potency sooner. Chakra need some adjusting. Dragoons can self heal for 1200-2000+ with Healing Breath, which is a 60 second recast, Chakra heals for what like 300-600ish and its a 5min timer? I know it's comparing apples to oranges because MNK has many, many other things DRG doesn't but at least shorten it to maybe 3min and increase its potency or VIT modifier.

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With the massive amount of +vit gear you could probably do a chakra for over 1K hp. You'd only need maybe +200 or so and since nearly every body slot can have like +35 vit it's not that hard to stack a lot of it.

So you have to ask is it worthwhile carrying around a pile of vit gear just for chakra?

Second, boost is very very useful, you pop it right before WSing, giving you that nice little attack bonus right before hand. Since you use them back to back there isn't really any kind of delay. Same for Chi Blast, you macro boost -> chi blast for extra damage.

Also you should be using boost between fights on the run to get some extra damage on your first hit. It's not useless.

Now if SE wanted a good buff for boost, make it a 45 second recast instead of 15 and triple it's potency. Basically turn it into a mini sneak attack for monk that doesnt care about orientation, but isnt quite as strong.

The JA delay from using Boost during battle does more harm than good from what I understand.