Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2

This week on What Are the Developers Gonna **** Up Next?!, the continued dismantling of Monk!

But no, really, can we rotate developers again? I think the guys who made Abyssea have just about used up their value; let's not let them destroy what they made, which they seem to be hellbent on doing for the sake of "barance."

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Originally Posted by Annalise

My concern is that by wanting to avoid adjusting the equipment for monk and instead changing the weaponskill itself, this has a negative effect on PUP who didn't have a problem in the first place. Ultimately in the sense of critical hits, this change does a lot more to PUP than it does to MNK, as PUP's critical hit rate is reduced by an overall greater percent than MNK with the weaponskill change. (My thinking is that 15->10% change to WS at 100% TP, say PUP had 20% crit-> reduced to 15%, and Monk had 70% crit-> reduced to 65%, PUP went down 1/4 overall whereas MNK went down by 1/14 overall).

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This 100%. If 2 jobs can use the WS, one better than the other, it would make sense to fix the one that does OP dmg... not gimp them both. As a PUP, I would love something like Impetus for us then... something to not make VS worse than Stringing Pummel after we worked so hard on the Empy Weapon...

1) Thank you for actually translating this. (For those not aware, this was posted a week ago on the JP side, and probably only translated because I brought it up. If you'd prefer, you can pretend to remain in blissful ignorance.) It may not have any effect going forward, but at least we can see some of what was going on, instead of being left in the dark.

2) While I might sympathize slightly with pups, Stringing Pummel was already on par with Smite. Pups lose almost nothing here. Annalise, your analogy doesn't really work since it makes no effort to really understand the full math behind such calculations.

3) Overall, I can see where they're coming from in trying to balance between VS and the Impetus effect. Since changing Impetus would hurt a lot more people (and sorry pups, but there's about 10 times as many mnks as there are pups), bringing Smite down a little was the logical choice.

4) I'll agree that the point about mnks being chosen as Abyssea tanks is somewhat dodging the full reasons behind that (blue procs, high survivability), but you can't deny that very strong offensive power was also a significant part of the consideration. But that's merely an example point anyway. It seems more that they were trying to express the common player shunning of 'lesser' jobs. IE: If you have mnk, come mnk; I don't care what other jobs you have available.

5) I no longer have any expectations that the devs play the game. It's not feasible on a multitude of levels, and even if they did play, their mindset is completely different from players. They'd approach the game from the angle of "this is the way it 'should' be played" or "I already know what's supposed to be done here" instead of the player approach of maximal optimization and corner case exploitation.

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Originally Posted by Motenten

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2) While I might sympathize slightly with pups, Stringing Pummel was already on par with Smite. Pups lose almost nothing here. Annalise, your analogy doesn't really work since it makes no effort to really understand the full math behind such calculations.

3) Overall, I can see where they're coming from in trying to balance between VS and the Impetus effect. Since changing Impetus would hurt a lot more people (and sorry pups, but there's about 10 times as many mnks as there are pups), bringing Smite down a little was the logical choice.

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Stringing Pummel is now better than VS outside of Abyssea, which is what I'm saying. Spending all the time making the weapon only to have it be beaten by a simple Nyzul climb WS kind of sucks. And so... basically because there are less PUPs, it doesn't matter if we get screwed?

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Originally Posted by Annalise

My concern is that by wanting to avoid adjusting the equipment for monk and instead changing the weaponskill itself, this has a negative effect on PUP who didn't have a problem in the first place. Ultimately in the sense of critical hits, this change does a lot more to PUP than it does to MNK, as PUP's critical hit rate is reduced by an overall greater percent than MNK with the weaponskill change. (My thinking is that 15->10% change to WS at 100% TP, say PUP had 20% crit-> reduced to 15%, and Monk had 70% crit-> reduced to 65%, PUP went down 1/4 overall whereas MNK went down by 1/14 overall).

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But if you put this into a perspective of overall damage, I think you'll find it's much closer due to the added Automaton damage, which wasn't nerfed at all. Not to mention that this is just WS, and didn't affect DoT of either job.

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I see people all the time say "BRING BACK THE AYBSSEA PEOPLE!" which is funny because they didn't leave, they actually got promoted to lead role in FFXI, lol.

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Whatever happened Yoshi sure got a lot of respect in the company to get such an important double job on their lead title from working on Aby, I doubt he got that job from doing anything less than a massive role in how Aby turned out.

So they are assuming that the majority of players want MONK on every single thing in the game - hence the nerf, and the same goes to Warrior, hence more nerfs. But they still refuse to acknowledge another key component to this, WHITE MAGE. The most commonly used jobs in abyssea are Monk, Warrior, White Mage, Ninja, Thief and Black Mage for reasons we are all aware of. With the most common duo for Monk and White Mage, or White Mage + Warrior, Ninja, Thief. Take out the white mage components, and most of these duos won't work as well, probably not till they do the upcoming cure spells update. And soon they probably will do Stardiver nerf because the WS is working as intended and actually VERY popular and well liked. When a content is successful and well liked, and well received by the majority of the player base where it becomes the normal standard, the developer should rejoice, celebrate and come up with more similar blockbuster contents. Instead they focusing on "barance", impossible to finish magian trials, major bomb of a neo nyzul, lottery luck of VW, and the atrocious Araise coming soon to 1% of the white mage population.

They're already boosting cure power for non-WHM so what are you getting at?

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

They're already boosting cure power for WHM's C1-4 so what are you getting at?

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fixed that.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

They're already boosting cure power for non-WHM so what are you getting at?

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What I am getting at is, it is not fair to single out Monk and Warrior as the two jobs that has been getting a few "barance" adjustment when there is another job in that equation that is also extremely powerful where other "healers" jobs are rendered useless and not needed. Granted I think they did great with white mage job and adjusted it to the point where it is the one and only best healer in the game. But at the same time, they neglect to do the same to Red Mage and left that job floundered in the last few years. If they want balance, do something with the other jobs so that you don't need to always have the pair of White Mage + Ninja/Monk/Thief/ on every dual combo in abyssea.