Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

Its interesting to read the new player thread and see the issues that they have with Abyss.

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Originally Posted by Ryland

I agree completely.

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i actually did put in another post to place u in abyssea as a new char in a party with 10 stones and 120 min so u changing my post is a lil retatred lol but like i said have fun your way

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Originally Posted by Ryland

Yeah let's pull arbitrary numbers out of our ass and throw them around as great ideas! Yeah! How about we ban 93% of the players who don't use gear swaps, and leave the last 7% for lulz! Yeah!

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Sarcasm Fail

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Alexander/Pikachuninetail

Confirmed WHM and SCH 90 at the least.

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son of a biscuit eater, on my server nonetheless

Why do people still care about leeching? At this point, full alliances and parties only proved to be LESS efficient than small groups. Two people can crush the hell out of some Dominion OPs and allow friends to leech. Nothing wrong about it, since these same friends will eventually return the favor.

If leeching and key are an issue, just stop joining pickup Abyssea groups? It's way more pleasant, productive and easy to manage with LS friends.

Some will say that new players will not learn the job. I don't care about new players. Most of the time I do stuff solo or with friends anyway. Increasing the min level would just force me to play with people I don't care about, turning the game less fun.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

i actually did put in another post to place u in abyssea as a new char in a party with 10 stones and 120 min so u changing my post is a lil retatred lol but like i said have fun your way

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Wait, am I a new char as in level 1, or level 30? Either way I'm leeching exp so much faster than I'd be gaining any in an old school party, so I'm probably getting a chub in said party.

i got my whm from 40-90 in a couple of days~

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something)

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This argument isn't yours, it's actually one of the main ones proposed by the people wishing to increase the level cap.

I'm not going to go into great detail about why I think it's a dismissible argument, I doubt that you'll be swayed either way, but I'll say this. Jobs in FFXI aren't hard, they can easily be picked up in the course of skilling up, or even just leveling a prior job. It's not leeching that breeds bad players, it is ignorance, such as the ignorance displayed by Ezikiel. You will find that there is always a percentage of players who are inferior and unswayed by logical arguments. Most people who engage in leeching already fit one of two categories, those who understand the game mechanics and those who blatantly ignore them. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the people leeching have leveled via the old method, and have already taken on one of these two roles prior to abyssea.

If this argument was proposed 9 years ago, when the game was new, I could easily see myself being persuaded by some of these arguments, but now there's so few new players that it doesn't make an iota of difference. All Square have done is remove the tedium from leveling a job.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something) Hell for all I know, my stubbornness on this topic could be from me not playing for a year. (just started about a week ago)

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This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

My NIN I've had longer but has a nigh perfect TP set (no Usukane Feet) and is fairly strong all-round - biggest weakness being my 2nd Katana (though I tend to dagger/katana anyway until Hi since Evis >>> Jin and Twilight Knife has very strong DoT in areas where accuracy is not a consideration). Again you can ask me anything you want!

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Originally Posted by Ryland

Wait, am I a new char as in level 1, or level 30? Either way I'm leeching exp so much faster than I'd be gaining any in an old school party, so I'm probably getting a chub in said party.

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i truly hink u should be allowed in at lvl 1 skip the BS

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

son of a biscuit eater, on my server nonetheless

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lol...that character is...i wonder if i should reactivate one of my old content IDs with jobs capped at 75.....lmao...no way..not worth it. proving that would be like beating a dead dog with a stick. then again...i wonder if they are still on there...been so bloody long since i used them i might not even be able to...XD

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

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It doesn't sound arrogant, it tends to be the case for most players, I've found.

See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.

The worst, and yet most interesting thing about this topic is that while it has gone off-topic, has gotten nowhere since the first few pages, and is filled with circular arguments, it would be even worse if it were closed, as it would give people "proof" that there's some big conspiracy from THE MAN to keep them from spreading their ideas.

Sociologically fascinating. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

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spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.

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Did you actually meet blus pre abyssea? 90% of the were horrible.

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Originally Posted by NrvnqsrKhaos

The worst, and yet most interesting thing about this topic is that while it has gone off-topic, has gotten nowhere since the first few pages, and is filled with circular arguments, it would be even worse if it were closed, as it would give people "proof" that there's some big conspiracy from THE MAN to keep them from spreading their ideas.

Sociologically fascinating. Carry on.

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The man would probably just have a headache.

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

The man would probably just have a headache.

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More like the man already does.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

My NIN I've had longer but has a nigh perfect TP set (no Usukane Feet) and is fairly strong all-round - biggest weakness being my 2nd Katana (though I tend to dagger/katana anyway until Hi since Evis >>> Jin and Twilight Knife has very strong DoT in areas where accuracy is not a consideration). Again you can ask me anything you want!

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I have to say that is impressive...... hell looks like I have some more research time on my hands, asking my LS mates and other people as well, maybe it is I who am out of the times with the game -.-

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Originally Posted by Krystal

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

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I knew someone that did that. Felt like they HAD to have every spell.
But they were still in the top 5% of worst blus ever.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

More like the man already does.

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Personally, all I can image is a darkened room with a bunch of GMs sitting around at desks, shaking the heads (or perhaps beating them against the desk) all wishing that the game could be back online to get all these crazies off the forums.

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Originally Posted by HFX7686

Personally, all I can image is a darkened room with a bunch of GMs sitting around at desks, shaking the heads (or perhaps beating them against the desk) all wishing that the game could be back online to get all these crazies off the forums.

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That's basically every customer service department in a nutshell.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

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Find me a use for Body Slam, Spinal Cleave, Tail Slap, Hysteric Barrage, Sandspray and Asuran Claws and I'll accelerate my schedule. I'm also missing Sub-Zero Smash which could actually have some use so I should get that one.

Right now, my current priority as far as BLU is concerned is to finish my 85Almace - nothing I can do can compare with the difference in damage that will provide. After that I'll be going and finishing off my spell list, but I think you can hardly call me gimped for missing 7 spells, 6 of which are dubious at 90 cap.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Find me a use for Body Slam, Spinal Cleave, Tail Slap, Hysteric Barrage, Sandspray and Asuran Claws and I'll accelerate my schedule. I'm also missing Sub-Zero Smash which could actually have some use so I should get that one.

Right now, my current priority as far as BLU is concerned is to finish my 85Almace - nothing I can do can compare with the difference in damage that will provide. After that I'll be going and finishing off my spell list, but I think you can hardly call me gimped for missing 7 spells, 6 of which are dubious at 90 cap.

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Why would you not want to slap things with your tail?

Fake cat etc :( no tail to slap with!

Tail Slap may have some use after I get CdC in a more melee-orientated build because you can form the Store TP trait with it, but until then I'm not so bothered.

I have one main question. Who do level 90 leechers hurt?

It seems they mainly hurt pick up parties and groups that try to throw together random gear/NM parties. It shouldn't hurt LS recruitment since a good LS will usually have an application process and if you see someone with a 90 job, uncapped skills, misplaced merits, and restricted access you'll know where they came from. If they somehow make it past that then there's usually the trial period where you'll actually see how good they play. If someone leeches to 90 then just has fun soloing missions/quests/NMs/whatever and doesn't bother anyone else then why stop them?

I understand the argument that a leech is preventing vanilla type parties, but I think a majority of leechers are people who have many jobs and capped merits so they need another 75 to dump merits into. I do get annoyed when I see naked low levels just sitting around the page NPC while myself (also a low level) run around checking and opening chests), I just have to assume they're LS or friends of the party leader and were allowed to do that. Me being annoyed is no reason to raise the level cap. Honestly I think abyssea should reveal those people who really enjoy normal parties. Which should mean that when you find a full party of people who WANT to party the normal way, it should be an amazingly fun party to be in. But if you were to take abyssea away you might encounter that frustrating party that most are familiar with more often.

I recently started leveling my NIN again. Whenever I seek for party I seek for any type that will get me xp (level sync and abyssea). I got into a normal party a few days before the servers went down (a truly normal party also, no PL, and proper job set up (which i think is even more rare)) I got less xp/hour than soloing and died at least 5 times. (My skills are capped on NIN and have yet to take it to an abyssea party). Over the course of 3-4 hours, I started with 1k tnl and ended 1 level higher with 1k tnl. All deaths were not my parties fault. Some deaths were my fault, some were water elemental aggro (we were in crawler's nest), some were just getting beat down by exoray. It is discouraging, but I will continue to accept whatever type party I get invited to. But it also illustrates why people prefer abyssea leeching.

If you want a normal party, just shout in Port Jeuno. I've made parties above 30+ by just shouting and could get six members in less than 10 minutes. Don't make shit harder then it needs to be. If "not going into abyssea" makes you all such great players, you should have no problem managing only six people instead of eighteen and doing maybe three mobs per 10 minutes intead. If not, then you need to look up, YOUR jobs.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

not nearly high enough of one. if your below a certain level you still get old school exp..and to some leachers"that fine and dandy" when they get that amount of exp at the rate people get it in those areas. incurring a higher exp penalty with make them think twice before going in an leaching instead of seeking for a normal party.

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Tell me my dear minority is the concept of not doing something if you don't like it really that hard to grasp.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Tell me my dear minority is the concept of not doing something if you don't like it really that hard to grasp.

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is the concept of NOT being a lazy player beyond your grasp?

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Originally Posted by Krystal

is the concept of NOT being a lazy player beyond your grasp?

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How hard is it to ignore something that doesn't inconvenience you in any unpreventable way.

posting where relevant check it out give feedback

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...316-Exp-Merits

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

So instead of Abyssea burning, we will be stuck in East Ronfaure [S] and Qufim? Or Astral Burning?

People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. Trying to change it is just imposing your nostalgia on others. If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.

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It is nice to see the everyone gets a trophy age, think that the grind us old players had to go through sucked. When it is people like you that ruined the game and complained it is to hard. I have a nice Dora game you may like to play it is more your speed. You never die and is a straight line to the end.

Here is exactly how this argument has gone

Us: You can level however you want to and if you can make money doing it then do it

Them: You can level however we want you too and if you can make money doing it we'll take it

We will have to agree to disagree. Already had to leave one server because most jobs 30 plus had gone to Abyss and other areas were deserted. People left the game because the regular community was dying, the AH died, and new players would not stay. You have to realize that many people are not trying to "beat the game" and get to 90 and aquire the top gear. To a lot of players it is a community that they come to and enjoy some challenges with friends and a world they travel and enjoy. Its just two different game philosophies and because goals differ, so do methods. Unfortunately, the pursuit of one by some makes life hard in the game for others.

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Originally Posted by Skybrit

We will have to agree to disagree. Already had to leave one server because most jobs 30 plus had gone to Abyss and other areas were deserted. People left the game because the regular community was dying, the AH died, and new players would not stay. You have to realize that many people are not trying to "beat the game" and get to 90 and aquire the top gear. To a lot of players it is a community that they come to and enjoy some challenges with friends and a world they travel and enjoy. Its just two different game philosophies and because goals differ, so do methods. Unfortunately, the pursuit of one by some makes life hard in the game for others.

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Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

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Originally Posted by vordox

It is nice to see the everyone gets a trophy age, think that the grind us old players had to go through sucked. When it is people like you that ruined the game and complained it is to hard. I have a nice Dora game you may like to play it is more your speed. You never die and is a straight line to the end.

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I grinded BST the hard way and it did suck now beasts get all xp whether or not they have pet and im not mad at them for making it easier

Being a FFXI player since the game first came out on the ps2, I agree with Krystal. It has gotten way too easy to level now. The first week or two i loved it, then as i got 5 jobs from 75-90 in a week or two I realized that most of the fun has been taking out of this game. I think SE should balance it a little bit. I like the idea of increasing the aby level to 75+. I think if we can keep it to once your 90 keep things how they are with the easy solo, easy merits, ect. but from levels 1-75 i think should go back to the old way, that way you have to work to get to your 75 job, there will be parties again. And once you hit 75 you get to 90 easy in aby. Thats just me though.. Honestly i love the game and will keep playing no matter what but i do believe this way would make it better for everyone..

The problem that you complainers dont realize is that if they raise the lvl cap in abyssea, it will kill abyssea exp as it is right now. I know some people like krystal are just trolling, but the majority of you people supporting him/her/it dont realize the ramifications of the proposal here. Without low lvl leechers, there is no one to open boxes. Very few 75+ players would agree to waste their cruor opening boxes instead of fighting and skilling up.

We all hate afk leechers, but removing key people would destroy the system as it is right now. Its all well and good to claim that you want people to go back to the old way of lvling where it took forever to find a pt and even if you found one it would suck more often than not, but if that actually happened, good players who already have multiple jobs would simply stop lvling new jobs and you complainers would be stuck with the bottom of the barrel people who fulltime 5/5 perle/aurore/teal gear.

Thats not entirely true. Honestly even a 75 job is pretty worthless unless its a backline job, at 75 drg i couldnt hit the one at all missing pretty much every swing and when it does hit its for a 0-3 dmg. So a 75 job can easily be a key whore.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

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and what do you do when your close friends have left the game due to the fact they don't like FFXI in it's current state? HHMMM? mr.i have a solution to everything.