Nerfing Ukko/Vsmite so lazy players can be more useful?

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

I'm sure insulting the translators/moderators is a surefire way of getting them to see things your way and pass word along to the devs.

At least show a fraction of respect, it hurts to see that kind of attitude.

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/bow to this.

No KF, I'm not singling you out, you just used a buzz word.

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Originally Posted by kingfury

[*]Don't bring Damage Dealing jobs (WAR, MNK) that excel at producing high damage backwards

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Aside from blood rage(Which I don't understand because the point of war is to crit.)the nerf you're all talking about is a WS nerf, not a job nerf. They were never meant to produce the damge they do in the first place. In actuality this is a fix, not a nerf and to be honest, it's needed. SE's actions here are the correct responce to the issue. People are lacking propor forthought into the problem at hand. Increasing other jobs to match is absolutely not the correct responce. Again I reinterate, this has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with a WS. You need to stop treating it like a job issue or job nerf. Upping everyone else will "nerf" the game. You'll just end up turning everything into munchkin(Look it up yourself.) and the whole game will become pointless and boring. And when you up everything like that, people are just going to want everything to keep increasing. There'll be no end to it.

Blood Rage didn't have to be nerfed, Crit Attack Bonus II could have still been put into effect. Ukko's Fury was the only thing that needed adjustment.

MNK/PUP needed no nerf, Victory Smite was fine at its original crit distribution.

People complaining about the wrong things. :c

yeah breaking the job to fix the weapon skill is a little weird

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Originally Posted by Helel

Get off the bandwagon and play a different job for once. Same can be said for mnk.

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Not that this is really relevant, but not every WAR and MNK is bandwagon... half of the monks that are bandwagon are utter trash anyway and are using Asuran Fists with Furor Cesti.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Also, basing job related adjustments on a special weapon skill only available with a certain weapon is silly. What about all the other weapons WAR might need to use? Should they be denied the originally planned crit rate boost just to trade off for a weapon-specific WS not getting nerfed as hard?

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This, 100%... I don't even know why they're going after Blood Rage... sure it's a sick bonus, but it at least benefits other jobs... it isn't exclusive to Ukko's Fury... and it's only 30 seconds every 5 minutes. If you really need to target Ukko's Fury, limit the amount of critical hit bonus it can gain from outside buffs.

Not every job needs to be a top DD or a incredible healer.... every job just needs a use.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

No KF, I'm not singling you out, you just used a buzz word.Aside from blood rage(Which I don't understand because the point of war is to crit.)the nerf you're all talking about is a WS nerf, not a job nerf. They were never meant to produce the damge they do in the first place. In actuality this is a fix, not a nerf and to be honest, it's needed. SE's actions here are the correct responce to the issue. People are lacking propor forthought into the problem at hand. Increasing other jobs to match is absolutely not the correct responce. Again I reinterate, this has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with a WS. You need to stop treating it like a job issue or job nerf. Upping everyone else will "nerf" the game. You'll just end up turning everything into munchkin(Look it up yourself.) and the whole game will become pointless and boring. And when you up everything like that, people are just going to want everything to keep increasing. There'll be no end to it.

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No worries on the response to what I posted of course, we're all discussing our opinions here.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that the "correction" of the weapon skill may or may not help the overall system of things. Only time will tell. However, when the Devs said their goals based on this "correction" is to "Establish balance between warrior and other jobs (make it easier to balance)", that's where my views and suggestions are aiming.

I do believe that allowing players the "opportunity"(in quotes because it should be something a player should have to strive to accomplish with skill and technique along with gear and planning) to become powerhouses is inevitable in MMORPGs, and it's very much the job of the Devs to continue to meet that reality by constantly creating new and more challenging content over time to keep those players happy. The only time the horrid "munchkin" effect should come into play is when a veteran player encounters OLDER/WEAKER content. No one should ever blame players of a 10yr old game for wanting to be much more powerful than they've been in the past.

Many jobs have been sending their concerns for more strength for their jobs for years(DRK,DRG,RDM,RNG,etc.), so this topic at hand is indeed still a major conversation concerning the balancing of "damage output performance" on every job and the proper methods of achieving that balance. My post is just a stab at a possible solution for improving weapon skill damage at the very least on all jobs by creating creative and unique job specific opportunities to do so.

i used to love war + monk until they all became an empyrean fad job .....

i barely play any of them anymore :( used to love them but honestly they did get over powered with empyrean ws's in comparison to other job ws's hence the huge fad and rage because everyone is one now lol

i don't feel sorry for any of the bandwagon riders sorry kind if makes me chuckle to see them all /cry

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

This doesn't really help much. I don't really sit and hold onto TP much. Most of the other crit ws have a base rate of 15%, why lower the 100tp rate for mnk?

I'd rather have put it back to 15% and keep the original nerf on 200 and 300% tp.

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Indeed. 15%/25%/35% would have been fine; maybe 15%/25%/40% if you want to be generous with the 200-300 TP range. Mnks certainly won't throw as much of a fit over things as all the wars have, but I don't see a terribly strong reason to make that adjustment at the 100 TP level when it seems (at a guess, since full reasoning has never really been given) most of the problems were at 300 TP due to the abundant availability of TP wings in Voidwatch.

Let's hope you boost bravura and spharai further then se putting ukkos back and nerfing war itself is another blow against bravura.

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Originally Posted by Amador

A 5% drop is worthless on 100% TP. IF anything look at the 300% TP Values.

80% Crit Rate, 65% Crit Rate. Those value's were the only ones who actually needed the adjustment.

As far as Ukon goes, the FIRST nerf Adjustments made it perfectly fine, this 2nd set makes it pointless to even nerf it at all.

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Seeing that they actually increase the value's base on players response. I'd have to say your wrong.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Ukko's - Looks much more reasonable now.

V. Smite - Shouldn't be nerfed at all.

Blood Rage - Why isn't this being discussed? If WARs don't get crit damage bonus 3 anymore then keeping the damage boost on BR should be fine. I didn't understand this nerf in the first place since it's AoE and helps everyone. Nerfing it for the sake of not overpowering WAR when it boosts everyone in their party doesn't make much sense.

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Yeah I noticed this too. I'd rather take a % drop than lose it all together. With the player base asking for improvements across the board with damage, it kind of makes you wonder why they'd nerf a way to help other player out with their damage output.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

No KF, I'm not singling you out, you just used a buzz word.Aside from blood rage(Which I don't understand because the point of war is to crit.)the nerf you're all talking about is a WS nerf, not a job nerf. They were never meant to produce the damge they do in the first place. In actuality this is a fix, not a nerf and to be honest, it's needed. SE's actions here are the correct responce to the issue. People are lacking propor forthought into the problem at hand. Increasing other jobs to match is absolutely not the correct responce. Again I reinterate, this has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with a WS. You need to stop treating it like a job issue or job nerf. Upping everyone else will "nerf" the game. You'll just end up turning everything into munchkin(Look it up yourself.) and the whole game will become pointless and boring. And when you up everything like that, people are just going to want everything to keep increasing. There'll be no end to it.

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Not to single you out but i've heard this said a few times before. Does any one really believe that this kind of thing wasn't tested out before they added it to the game. I know the test servers weren't running yet when Ukon/ukko's/Blood rage was introduced. But some one had to have tested this thing and said "It looks fair too me/us."