How is it Unfair? They already worked their ass off for the relic weapon already. They deserve to be able to use the relic on Dancer, if and when Dancer is finally able to equip it. Obtaining a relic weapon is not as easy as obtaining a homam gear, let alone empyrean weapon, and most of the other shit in game.Quote:
No, I'm not saying that at all. That dagger was created with those jobs in consideration. It was not created with DNC in consideration. DNC was not even out when the weapon was created. I feel it would be unfair for people to automatically have the best weapon for a NEW job when it comes out when everyone had to work for the best of most of the rest of the gear after the job's release. It also punishes people who started working on a relic with the understanding of what jobs could use it, only to have that suddenly change. I imagine there are some people who got this or that relic that would have regretted getting it if they knew they were going to play a new job and it used a different relic.
Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation
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11-07-2011, 09:58 AMSuirieko
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11-07-2011, 09:58 AMKimbleIs it really so unreasonable to want a job that excels in said weapon, to be able to use the relic of that weapon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
No one is saying "hey, lets add NIN and WAR to dagger!" They are saying add DNC, a job who excels in dagger, to be able to use it. -
11-07-2011, 10:03 AMAlhanelemThey worked their ass off for it knowing full well what jobs could use it. There was no reason to expect that some unknown job in the future would be able to use it or even that it would be good for the job if they did get to use it. Nobody made a Mandau specifically to benefit an unknown job that didn't exist when they made it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suirieko
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11-07-2011, 10:06 AMKimble
I swear to god you disagree just to disagree.
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11-07-2011, 10:10 AMAlhanelemI disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimble
[/intentional irony]
I don't disagree just to disagree. You can find me agreeing with people in many threads. I disagree with something when I honestly, truly don't think it should be done.
I did not take on a contrary viewpoint in this thread with the intent and purpose of having a fight. i took on that viewpoint because that was my actual viewpoint. -
11-07-2011, 10:14 AMKimble
So really, in your opinion. Any gear we have now, should never be allowed to be used by any job that might be added, because that is just unfair?
Again, BLU should have never been added to crimson/homam/nashira then? -
11-07-2011, 10:15 AMSuiriekoDancer isn’t a job “that can use a dagger” it is a job that PRIMARILY uses a dagger, which is exactly the same case as Thief. Red Mage doesn’t even primarily use dagger, AND they also have Excalibur. Bard, even though it CAN primarily use dagger, the job barely melees as it is and you will likely never see a bard having Mandau and not having Thief NOR red mage leveled.Quote:
BECAUSE YOU DO! Making a relic doesn't give you some kind of magic entitlement to have the best weapon for every job that could use a dagger. It was designed for specific jobs, and those specific jobs only. X job and Y job using a weapon does not automatically mean job Z should also be able to use it.
Maybe they should have made a single relic weapon, and made it all jobs. It magically morphs to whatever weapon class your have the highest skill in. That way everyone would only need to make one superweapon to have the best weapon for every job in the game.
This isn’t about giving relic to jobs just because they can use it. This is about giving relic weapons to five newer jobs that primarily uses it. Especially in the case of Mandau, Corsair, Blue Mage, and puppet master. Scholar is still iffy because of the ‘fake relic’ situation. (Scholar can wield fake club relic but not staff, despite them using staff primarily).
And finally, Twashtar is equippable by Dancer and Thief, and they are the two jobs that primarily uses dagger. Wow. What an amazing coincident.
It makes sense to even argue that Dancer can equip mandau because they are primarily dagger users, and same with annihilator and corsair and for spharai for pup, and excalibur for Blue mage, and staff for scholar.
It was an oversight by SE and situation that SE refuses to correct. You cannot sit there and tell me that it’s fair that just because the five newer jobs were made after dynamis, they can’t equip relic.Quote:
I'm not speaking about right now. I'm speaking about when those jobs were released. Does a passage of X number of years suddenly justify a change?
Huh? No, absolutely not. If an item has the job on it, then it has the job on it. We're talking about items that do not have the job, not items that do.
I 100% agree it was shortsighted- obviously they don't plan as far in advance as we might expect. That doesn't mean this situation needs changing, however.
It boggles my mind why people are even arguing about this when in essentially all cases, the options already given to these jobs are better than the relics. This is something that simply just doesn't need to be done. This is really such a trivial issue.
For some jobs, sure, empyreans are better. For Mandau and Dancer, that’s actually a debatable option, and also, since SE is considering giving these relic weapons a significant boost for level 99 cap, that’s going to very likely change.
Also, it boggles my mind why you are even saying that it’s fair for five newer jobs to get completely new relic weapons (Not to be confused with empyrean and mythic) just because those five jobs didn’t exist at the time Dynamis came out.
It would be obvious as hell that if Those five jobs were around when Dancer came out, they would be able to have the said relic. -
11-07-2011, 10:21 AMSuiriekoSo. What. That's like saying it's unfair for blue mage to use Homam because it didn't exist when Homam came out. That is like saying it's unfair for corsair to even wield Blood/Crimson Cuisses (aka W.Legs)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Edit: let me tell you that W.legs is NOt an easy piece of gear to obtain due to its rarity. -
11-07-2011, 10:22 AMSotekI feel it's worth noting that Blue Mage has been in FFXI since its release. I'd go as far as to say all Treasures jobs were; the original trailer quite clearly shows zones similar to Wajaom and Blue Magic. Bare minimum these jobs and zones were planned from the word go.Quote:
Those five jobs shouldn't even be considered as new. Dancer and Scholar has been around for 4 years. Corsair, Blue Mage, and Puppetmaster has been around for five years.
I think I'm actually going to listen to something Alhanelem has said and ignore him. His opinion is clearly in the wrong, forcing a person who leveled Thief and Dancer to work on what will effectively be a clone of Mandau - a weapon they may already have - is completely ridiculous. SE has basically already confirmed what they're doing. This is less of a debate or discussion and more of a tantrum with Alhanelem desperately trying to offer an alternative by spewing increasingly ridiculous claims.
So if I leveled Paladin, obtained Excalibur, then leveled Blue Mage, it's unfair for Blue Mage to be added to Excalibur? Because I'd rather spend an additional 150m, right?Quote:
They worked their ass off for it knowing full well what jobs could use it. There was no reason to expect that some unknown job in the future would be able to use it or even that it would be good for the job if they did get to use it. Nobody made a Mandau specifically to benefit an unknown job that didn't exist when they made it.
Or is it, I leveled Paladin, obtained Excalibur, then leveled Dancer, so it's unfair that I wasted effort on Excalibur when I now want Mandau?
I don't know which I want you to mean, because both are equally stupid. If I worked on Excalibur I can very easily work on a new Relic weapon - certainly by todays standards - but ignoring that it's not like I've got to toss Excalibur to obtain Mandau - it's not wasted effort.
Unless I originally worked on Claustrum before really enjoying Dancer I'm not going to look at my Relic weapon and go "What a waste". It means I'll have two unique Relic weapons, having what will effectively be copies of existing weapons just to satisfy some nonexistent sense of wrong doing towards Relic holders makes absolutely no sense. Either way someone with a Excalibur is going to have to work on a Relic dagger for Dancer. It's not unfair for this Paladin turned Dancer, it is unfair on the Mandau Thief turned Dancer, though. -
11-07-2011, 10:24 AMAlhanelemit's fair because those jobs would have to work for their relics instead of automatically having one for free because people made them before the job came out.Quote:
Also, it boggles my mind why you are even saying that it’s fair for five newer jobs to get completely new relic weapons (Not to be confused with empyrean and mythic) just because those five jobs didn’t exist at the time Dynamis came out.
Id go so far as to say it's hard to imagine why anyone wouldn't want new ones over being tacked on to the old ones, which were not in any way made with the new jobs in mind. New weapons would be built with the new jobs in mind. It would also mean new weaponskills with new additional effects. Who wouldn't want that? It would make a lot more sense than slapping jobs onto weapons that weren't designed for those jobs.