Idiocy

The argument still doesn't compel me to sub SCH. To each is their own. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much MP you 'save' with what subjob, but how effective you are playing within the limits of your ability. You can sub rdm or sch and STILL fail at what your job really is, WHM, if you spamming like an idiot, not prioritizing your spell and lacking knowledge of what life threatening abilities the monster your fighting has.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

It did, actually.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sublimation

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Thank you that makes a difference albiet small...

As for /sch and /rdm:

/sch will have 17% less mp drain than /rdm will

let's give /rdm 15mp/tic over time with a 1450hp/mp vert set and perfect refresh use. (9+6 in autorefresh)

/sch will, being generous, give 9mp/tic over time with perfect sublimation use.(3+6 autorefresh) Let's add perfect penury usage on cure 5 in here(unlikely, but w/e) for 1 more mp/tic so 10mp/tic.

So first of all, in any situation where the drain on your mp is less than 10mp/tic the sub does not matter for mp purposes. In any situation where the drain on your mp is >10mp and less than 15mp/tic obviously rdm is superior for mp purposes.

As you increase the mp drain past 15mp/tic sch will approach rdm in efficiency, however, this will not happen until you have already surpassed the ability of the whm to sustain itself alone. Both subs will be losing 10mp/tic when you have a 25mp/tic drain on your mp pool. Higher than this, /sch will be more mp efficient, however if you are continuously healing, both jobs are doomed to run out of mp. So in this case you need outside refresh, at least 10mp/tic in order to stay afloat, where both subs are equal. If you need more outside refresh than 10mp/tic then /sch pulls ahead. But you must also consider the case where you have a mob that is going to die fast, or somewhat fast, and in that case, I don't know which is better, someone else do that math. I will let this post only be about continuous fighting and MP usage.(despite how unrealistic that may be)

If you have something to aspir then it is different, and many times you can sleep an mp battery mob off to the side if you want just to have for /sch. Let's say you can pull 150mp/70 seconds with aspir, that's an extra 6.4mp/tic and puts /sch ahead of /rdm by a decent chunk.


Basically, if you're solo healing outside abyssea with no source of aspir, /rdm.(admittedly rare)
If you have refresh atma(most likely the source of the change in attitude from convert>all), or a source of aspir, or gjallarhorn ballads, then /sch.

So the question becomes, do all voidwatch mobs have mp?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Still not even close to the MP you save from /SCH. /RDM is seriously stupid.

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Wrong sir, please sea my post above. The only reason /sch works is because of aspir or atma. Without those /rdm is more efficient. So make your decision based on area and mobs.

Sch sub also gives Conserve MP.

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Originally Posted by Zatias

Sch sub also gives Conserve MP.

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I counted that

Despite /sch improving due to minikin monstrosity, I will still most likely use /rdm just because it's easier to dualbox than having to pop all those JA all the time. In abyssea on whm main however, it's /sch all the way.

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Originally Posted by DebbieGibson

let's give /rdm 15mp/tic over time with a 1450hp/mp vert set and perfect refresh use. (9+6 in autorefresh)

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I have to be reading this incorrectly. Are you saying WHM/RDM gets 15mp/tic with refresh1 and gear?

EDIT: Oh, are you factoring in convert?

Apologies. I get lost in walls of text ; ;

Thanks for posting some numbers. It's less than shocking that, like everything else in FFXI, the choice is situational.

Would taking the effects of Orison Pantaloons +2 into account have a more significant effect on one sub than the other, I wonder?

I think it's worth noting that both jobs have different benefits beyond MP longevity, also. Especially given that "benefits other than MP longevity" is generally the deciding factor of what a White Mage subs inside Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

I have to be reading this incorrectly. Are you saying WHM/RDM gets 15mp/tic with refresh1 and gear?

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Convert is worth 7.2mp/tic with 1450hp/mp. Refresh is worth 2.2mp/tic after you take into account you have to cast it. the -.4mp/tic is for the fact you have to cure yourself before/after vert. I think probably 14.5mp/tic is more accurate, so possibly 24mp/tic drain is the break-even point.

Also remember that the only thing minikin is doing is making it so what sub you pick doesn't matter in more situations, it just raises the threshold where dumping mp gives /sch the advantage over /rdm.

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Originally Posted by DebbieGibson

Convert is worth 7.2mp/tic with 1450hp/mp. Refresh is worth 2.2mp/tic after you take into account you have to cast it. the -.4mp/tic is for the fact you have to cure yourself before/after vert. I think probably 14.5mp/tic is more accurate, so possibly 24mp/tic drain is the break-even point.

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Yeah I edited my post.

Also I don't really see anywhere where you try to quantify mp drain. There is no mention of conserve MP or light arts mp reduction in your post. Perhaps my reading comprehension is suffering due to lack of sleep though so please point that out for me as well.