FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustments Manifesto: Paladin

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

ITT: Assessments of Paladin's performance based in Abyssea.

Paladin is fine. Outside Abyssea. I don't care if you don't do Voidwatch, that doesn't mean Paladin isn't awesome at it. Limiting the scope of the discussion to the mid-game bridge event that's already over and caters specifically to casual players is fallacious at best, malicious at worst. People with half a modicum of foresight neither need nor want adjustments based on Abyssean balance.

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ITT I wasn't tanking Tyger on MNK at 75.

Paladin has been useless for years. Abyssea just compounds the issue.

Edit: And lowering mainhand delay is a bad idea, as it nerfs TP gain and Paladin's white damage is pathetic with or without Almace aftermath.

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Originally Posted by Rorrick

ITT I wasn't tanking Tyger on MNK at 75.

Paladin has been useless for years. Abyssea just compounds the issue.

Edit: And lowering mainhand delay is a bad idea, as it nerfs TP gain and Paladin's white damage is pathetic with or without Almace aftermath.

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Direct yourself to the last page where I specifically addressed this point. Paladin's usefulness is directly correlated to the difficulty of content. When content became easier because everyone had killed Khimaira a billion times, even Corsair could tank it =/

I have to agree that a PLD's usefulness can be connected to how difficult the current content is viewed to be. Just the other day I walked out as PLD/RDM to play around with Turul and found him to be rather easy to solo and would've done so if I wasn't already waiting for another NM. I don't even have Almace, Aegis or Ochain and this was the same Turul that scared people when Abyssea first came out.

On another subject, do you guys think it would be game-breaking to give PLDs native Fencer? From what was mentioned, it seems S-E sees it as too powerful for a PLD? Would it be that bad on a PLD with Almace and make us more powerful than other DDs?

I think Paladin is the only job in the game aside from BST that might actually use Fencer, but it already has a fairly solid amount going for it in the damage department. It's not so much a matter of out-damaging real DDs as it is being acceptably good at DD while simultaneously being able to tank everything.

Now, don't get me wrong, most DDs are in the exact same position right now from the other side. However, their ability to tank sharply descends when you venture into newer content. WAR and MNK can't stand up to T4 Voidwalker NMs for crap.

It becomes easier by virtue of familiarity, which creates an environment in which Paladin will eventually have no place in. At some point, content will stop flowing, and everyone will be familiar with endgame. There will be no reason to use Paladin at all, and I think it's just unacceptable that nothing is being done to give Paladin a legitimate role to play; especially when the reasons for inaction fly in the face of prior statements and actions.

I actually don't mind that other jobs are able to tank and yes, I saw firsthand what a T4 VWNM could do to anyone that wasn't me or the other PLD. I was happy and sad at the same time and I'm not sure why...

I was just thinking Fencer might add a bit of oomph that might appease the casual masses without being something too powerful. And it might allow PLDs to stay slightly more relevant when Voidwatch gets easy as well.

Also, for those PLDs that have top-shelf gear I still don't see it being too powerful. Maybe just tier 1 or 2 at most by 99 if not the same as WARs. Again, would be nice when things change and everything seems easy again.

Its not something I'm demanding in any case. More like I'm wanting to better understand the reasoning behind S-E's vision for PLD because the language they use seems too much like the same old song and dance. You know, the one that has us hanging on the line between relevancy and mediocrity...

A role to play, yes, but making it a requirement, that would be unacceptable.

Since i start playing several years back, i still see the same debate: "the best setup is ..."
That's not because it's the best, that another setup will not being able to do it.

That's why it's difficult to design things, where for example, if you have a PLD it's easier, things go steady, but if you don't have one, you can still do it, but it will be harder. (You can have a SCH instead of a WHM in abyssea for main heal for example, harder but not impossible).

And yes, when you know well how combat works, which tactic to use against particular NM, the skill enhance the survivability of the party, and then the PLD survivability is excessive.

So when survivability is not as much required, PLD still needs to have something to do, the easiest thing would be to boost his damage, but then loosing some survivability.
A stance maybe.

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Originally Posted by Yukichibi

A role to play, yes, but making it a requirement, that would be unacceptable.

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Not that I disagree, but why is it unacceptable? They've essentially done the same thing to White Mage. It's the healer. Scholar and Red Mage are impotent in comparison. You can get by with either of them, but it makes things much more difficult, both inside and outside Abyssea. Yet, both Red Mage and Scholar can still contribute to the party in other ways, through enhancements, enfeeblements, and elemental magic.

In fact, I would argue that White Mage's dominance over healing is exactly the type of situation Paladin should be in, if SE refuses to expand on its duality. It should be the tank, and without one your life becomes much more difficult, but still manageable.

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Originally Posted by Rorrick

ITT I wasn't tanking Tyger on MNK at 75.

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Not sure what level they are but judging by the gear options on them and the post date of Feb 2010 looks like these MNKs were tanking Tyger at 75

As has been said and SE refuses to acknowledge it, PLD isn't needed and in the events it is needed for the moment it doesn't last because groups find ways to use more efficient tanks.

SE In other words unless you do something about PLD it will be a useless job, new hard content just delays this reality and if you honestly believe SCH spell, BRD song, THF Trick Attack will fix PLD's issue you have some naive (nicest word I could think of) game designers.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Not sure what level they are but judging by the gear options on them and the post date of Feb 2010 looks like these MNKs were tanking Tyger at 75

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The last time I did it we only had two (me on MNK and a SAM co-tank) tanks, and a total of nine people.