New weapons with higher base damage then relics

*sigh* I just love the drama here. The wailing and Gnashing of teeth.

Anyway here's some advice:

Improvise, Adapt, overcome, or quit.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Fact is, the game needed a reset button because when you NEED an R/M/E to compete at the content then something isn't right. SoA puts everyone on an even footing for the inevitable R/M/E buff but as per the usual people are too busy complaining a la Abyssea about how my EBODY IS RUINZORED.

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Except now, the focus has shifted to the new weapons. You can't simply add something that's got almost double the damage rating of a previously top-tier weapon and expect attitudes to change. Be it down to future content SE implement or the humanity of the playerbase demanding these weapons in order to invite you, it'll stay the same.

Are we going to see battles that you simply can't win efficiently because you'll need one of the higher damage weapons? If so, where does the process end? People have already tried to counter-argue with the fact that SoA is progressional content. You need to do reive in order to do wildkeeper reives, which in turn you need to do Delve etc. etc.

Progression needs value in order to make it a worthwhile time investment. To wipe out a decade of previous content is a bold move, but does it really go towards fixing the problems currently in the game? I don't think it does.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

You realize this entire "reset" is designed to move away from Tanakas 3 year grindhouse, yes?

Fact is, the game needed a reset button because when you NEED an R/M/E to compete at the content then something isn't right. SoA puts everyone on an even footing for the inevitable R/M/E buff but as per the usual people are too busy complaining a la Abyssea about how my EBODY IS RUINZORED.

Seriously people, since Abyssea the games paradigm has shifted. Quit worrying about being immortalized through ultimate weapons and enjoy the content.

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Lol no. Because this isn't how FFXI works.

The content isn't nearly as enjoyable if you know there would be gear reset this big every year. It's only enjoyable if the accomplishment stays, and that's how FFXI, this MMORPG works, in past 10 years. Ppl do content not because it's fun, but to be the best, and result>journey in this game. And this update just tells players that enjoyed FFXI in the past "go play other MMO or quit now"

The reason why me, or majority of 99R/E/M owners went through all that 3 year grind house BS is to obtain best weapons that was expected to stay on top after update via trials.

If you know your gear will be resetted every update, would you still be motivated in go to Adoulin area hitting tree root for 2hr a day? Or organize 2 ally to kill an NM for 3hours? Personally I won't. And if I do, I'd rather go to other MMO that resets gear for better/more fun content that doesn't involve spending 2hr on making pt/hitting tree root/mind numbing grind for 2hrs or spam ok button to lv up a craft/fish/digging to make gil for it.

The pace and general game mechanics of this game, just won't be very enjoyable if there's small gear reset every 3 months and big gear reset every half~1 years. Unless they changed the game mechanics and economy completely, which I highly doubt they can considering this game has way less resources than it used to be.

Abysea changed how this game worked, but it was not as bad as this reset. Abyssea introduced new set of legendary weapons that would probably stay on top for another 3 years to come(and it did), on top of new lv cap is coming so everyone knows things would be different at 99 anyways. And SE announced lv 99 cap way before hand that players was prepared for gear reset anyways.

And even then, ppl DID quitted when Abyssea hit, Abyssea era did suffered from playerbase shrink and it's fact.

This reset, not only they changed everything, but they also failed to communicate(bolded for importance) with the playerbase by providing more details about what they're planning to. All they said was they'd fix R/E/M once they have the resource to(yay inc R/E/M adjustment 5 years later, let's quit and see what happen after 5 years) and gear progression would be bigger and in tiers.

And the result is, nobody is certain about the future, and ppl lost motivation.(bolded for importance once again)

If you're going to invest large amount of time in a MMO or on a pixel item(or any rl investment really), most important thing is that you will make sure your investment worthwhile and you can get what you invest/sacrificed for. For example, you don't want to spend 10000 hours of your life in a game that looks like it will shut down soon. You don't want to pay 50M for a gear 1 week before major update. You don't want to invest in an industry irl that may crash soon.....and the list goes on.

At the current stage of FFXI, the fact is, the ones who invested 5 months of their life for R/E, or the one with R/E/M 95% done, pretty much lived in an uncerstain stage, that they don't know whether they can continue(Mythic looks like nearly impossible to complete atm, unless you have a high lv craft or 2 mules to farm your own), they'd lost motivation and may quit. Then whoever haven't invest in R/E/M also lived in uncertain stage, because with smaller player base(trust me, some ppl WILL rage quit for this, it's human nature), they don't know if invest in time to get new SoA gears would be worthwhile or not if the game playerbase is getting smaller.

Having an unstable future, IMO, it's a taboo in any rl industry, and in any MMO. Because you'd lost motivation if the future isn't secured, and that's the single most important thing to keep ppl going forward. And if anyone thinks other MMO is successful with gear reset so FFXI can do it too and would be just as successful, then I'd say you're too naive about MMO industry. A MMO this old, the last thing they should do is to change the way it work completely, it's not like it'd gain new playerbase by changing the game mechanics, and you'd just pissed off old/dedicated players that was expecting/wanted the game to work the old way. Because player's emotion, how they feel and human nature had a major factor in MMO management. Certain decision may make sense in terms of logic and theory, but in reality it's hard to execute. FFXIV failed hard because of it. Lack of communication and bad gear reset execution like this, is a taboo for MMORPG.

Imagine you invested a lot of money in a rl company, with a small group of dedicated customer base, one day the company suddenly decided to change the direction by ditching current existing customer base(and hoping the existing customer base would adapt the change, lol get real), while hoping to attract new customer base that is unlikely/very hard to get. Then I tell all the investors/customers "deal with it, get over it, because that's how every other company do" How would you feel?

The fact is, the way MMO works, you just aren't going to get new player base that easy, and the best you can do is to keep current customer base. The ones playing current-gen MMO probably won't come to FFXI with new direction, and lack of communication just pissed off existing playerbase who stayed for current FFXI.

Even if FFXI become successful with new direction, it'd take years to get the faith from the playerbase back. By that time they'd already lost considerable amount of playerbase.

The only right way to deal with R/E/M issue, is to make your 3 year boring grind worthwhile by being the best of the best, so players would play for 3 years to get it and still has motivation. The reason why you need R/E/M to compete, is either because certain job(DRG to be specific) is too weak, or they hand out too many R/E/M that they have to balance the difficulty based on the amount of population that has R/E/M.....if 1% of playerbase has R/E/M, the content would be effectively beatable without it. If 80% of playerbase has R/E/M, it'd become a requirement to keep up with the difficulty.

They made a mistake by handing out R/E/M to more playerbase and had to make game content efficiently beatable with one, they tried to fix the mistake by making R/E/M sidegrade so ppl can compete without one and created a bigger mistake, so now they decided to make R/E/M worthless anyways, by destorying FFXI and it's most hardcore playerbase, then hope one day, maybe(small chance :) ) 3 years later we can have a brand new FFXI, with a much smaller playerbase. So you created a hole on the road and fixed it by digging more holes, lol.

No matter how you can use other MMORPG as example, and tell everyone to get over it, I only see inevitable playerbase shrink, like what happened in Abyssea era, except this time is even worse. Blindly copying other MMO without factoring other factors that doesn't exist in other MMO, just isn't very good way to manage MMO IMO.

tl; dr:

Whether you like it or not, or how you tell ppl to deal with it and get over it because game needs reset, this update just isn't a very smart decision.

It's still just a video game. Name another MMORPG that keeps ONE SET OF WEAPON OR ARMOR as the top and must need to do any content. I'm very curious because most MMOs, especially in 2013, has an actual gear progression.

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.

It only takes awhile to complete a Mythic because of, as I stated, artificial difficulty. These new weapons actually has an entry barrier that'll make them actually something to work for (sounds familiar?)

The sad part about all of this bitching, the ones bitching are out there working towards getting these weapons. :\ The other funny thing about this, it was likely the same people who bitched when Abyssea released..oh, you don't remember the years and years we spent grinding content like Sky, Sea, Ground Kings and Einherjar only for Abyssea and VW to come out and negate all that work and everyone moved on their with lives just fine?

You say you can't use other MMORPGs as an example, but why is it that everyone is content in said other MMOs with gear progression..? Probably because almost every other MMO is designed this way and not keep things relevant for years on end rather than making something better to work for. Serious question Afania, did you join post Abyssea? Or did you quit after Abyssea released? I'm going to guess you joined post Abyssea.

I'm going to say it like this and end my contribution here: If your only reason for quitting this game is because S-E upset your position at the top of your server (or so you'll have us believe), then I can say for myself that you will not be missed. Status hounds don't mean a thing in my world if they're doing nothing but showing themselves off 23 out of 24 hours. You can point at my signature all you want in some vain attempt at calling me out. As proud as I am of what I did for those pieces of armor (with help at times from good people), don't for one minute think I ever lorded that over anyone's head. It is what it is.

I haven't much interest in acquiring these weapons unless one of them improves my SMN job manyfold from where the job stands presently. However, I have no intention of quitting just because my Empyrean Armor and the various Magian weapons I've built are supplanted by stronger items.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

*sigh* I just love the drama here. The wailing and Gnashing of teeth.

Anyway here's some advice:

Improvise, Adapt, overcome, or quit.

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Quit or suspend-and-see is the best option for me at this crossroad. IDK About you, But I'm not so ADHD that my only interest is grabbing the next shiny carrot they dangle infront of me seconds after I've nibbled on the other carrot I've finally got my hands on. In fact this is the very reason I chose FFXI.

I chose FFXI as my MMO entirely because gear had some term of longevity, pieces would be replaced, but it wouldn't be like other MMOs where every update you can expect 99% of your gear to be worthless. FFXI didn't have that, and thats what attracted me to it.

I don't want this bland generic MMO design sh*t with gear ladders they're throwing down our throat, Its not why i chose this game. If you like it? F**king good for you, there's about 1000 other MMOs on the market with this sh*tty design and you can play them for the 3 months their servers are active before they go FTP/Eshop with 10k people max.

FFXI was a niche MMO to me, it catered to the part of me who likes upgrading, but also like that sense of longevity some items have or had. Everyone who plays know eventually most if not all of your armor will become out of date, but going in a design direction where everything you have is worthless in 2 months just competely kills my, and very many others like me, will to play.

We get sh*t gets replaced, we just hate that its getting replaced so rapidly and so absolutely and by such insane bounds. Thats not why we love FFXI, Its not why i've been playing since NA Beta, thats not the FFXI i know, and its not what I want.

There's already an over saturation of poorly designed geargrind "WoW Killers" on the market, and none of them have a Decade old combat/skill system, FFXI doesn't need to become one of them. This game is still alive 11 years later, so obviously what its been doing the last 10 years was good enough, why the sudden idea that if they didn't do this, the game wouldn't be fun or be played? Every single update, (besides maybe legion...) they've released some armor that was top, some sidegrade, and some that makes you scratch your head... but we still worked for it, and we still played.

For 10 years this game has played the "Some Upgrade, some sidegrade, some "wat"" game with updates, and for 10 years its still active. It lost players over the course of time, but most if not all MMO's do, rather it be people who out-grow it, people who just decide to jump ship for a newer shinier MMO, or what have you... but FFXI still stands even with all this huff and puff over how the game would be dead if not for this new "gear ladder, replace it all" mindset.

Long story short, We don't need every single piece of our equipment to become sh*t each update to remain interested. Make the content fun and the rewards good, but we don't need what ... this whole thing... is doing. Its causing way more uproar than praising. Should note, I understand my views are all opinions, But I haven't spoken to a single person who likes this design pattern that doesn't give the reason "CAUSE SUCK IT UP". (Case at point, thanks below me).

Edit: And like 3 posts up someone's said pretty much the same thing i have <3

For the love of god can we at least see what plans devs have in store for r/e/m before brandishing pitchforks?
The fact that this thread has more posts than the others mean people are not concerned with communicating ideas on how to make events more fun but rather that there e-peen is not best anymore, All this crap about "hard work" in a video game...really? And then you have the asshats who talk about how things suck now but how things was so dam great during "kings"

If you think its about Epeen you have read so very little, and I fear you simply do not care to understand even the slightest why any of us are upset. Speaking for me personally, It has f**k all to do with Epeen, and more with the game i love and chose for over a decade is turning the car around and driving down "WoW Killer" Bland MMO Gear ladder Boulevard, and thats not the car I hopped into.

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Originally Posted by Falseliberty

For the love of god can we at least see what plans devs have in store for r/e/m before brandishing pitchforks?
The fact that this thread has more posts than the others mean people are not concerned with communicating ideas on how to make events more fun but rather that there e-peen is not best anymore, All this crap about "hard work" in a video game...really? And then you have the asshats who talk about how things suck now but how things was so dam great during "kings"

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The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

If you think its about Epeen you have read so very little

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"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.



"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

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None of the R/M/E Are hard work
>Doesn't own any 99 Versions.

If its so easy, Why aren't you swimming in 99 RME? Oh, cause your talking out of your ass. Yes, Getting a 75/80 R or E is stupid easy, Getting it to 90/95 from there is also quite easy, Getting them to 95/99 (E and R respectively), Not easy. Getting an Afterglow? Downright insaniac level.

Mythics are a whole other ballpark. They're stupid no matter how you look at it. But the downright point is, sh*ts no cake walk, and while yes, there is some level of ease in getting them these days, Getting them to 99 is a real chore for all 3. ADL is annoying at best and downright stupid at worst, 1,500 Metal plates is no easy task, rather you farm the gil for it or do VW yourself... Both are a long drawn out task, Gil doesn't just appear in your inventory... Just, downright, the point is, R/M/E Are not at all easy to get to 99, rather you buy it all or not, Its expensive and you have to earn the gil somewhere, or its time consuming and its not so easy to collect 1,500 Plates or 5 Marrows if all you have if yourself.

You guys trivialize the efforts of others all in the name of "hurt epeen" bashing, when in essence, all you're doing is getting a power high off some false sense of accomplishment because you think every RME holder is some elitist epeener who wants nothing more than to dump on those without them, which is flat out Bullsh*t. I didn't get my Relic to 99 because i was wanting t0 sh*t on Parses, I got a Mandau for crying out loud, I got it cause I loved THF, not to show anyone up, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else for it.

But, seriously though, I have to reiterate, for me, Its not even about RME anymore, That is a drop in the bucket compared to the bigger problem, which I've explained in my previous post. And the only thing bashing everyone and trivializing their work is doing is showing how terrible of a person you really are, you are no different than the hypothetical elitists you are bashing... the second you feel an ounce of power in your belly you go on a high horse spree laughing at the misfortune of others, judging them all by the same standard.

Whatever I say it will add fuel to the fire. But I love this move.

The game have grown stagnant. People grew reluctant to do new events because they had good gear, the new stuff were sidegrades. No one wanted to actual challenge new content. What good are updates to a MMO when 99.9% of the player base don't like new content?

Now there is a new, fresh event with amazing gear. You can farm it low man slowly, even SOLO. Or bring an alliance and get the very best gear after learning theorycrafting strategies and gearing. It's an awesome challenging event with cool gear.

Nope. Then people rather quit.

If you are good at FFXI. You just adapt. Go after the new content, challenge it. And when the new RME adjustments are released you challenge that content. If you sit in a corner with everyone else you will be left behind. That's an MMO for you.


On another note:
I've seen comments that WoW isn't challenging. That their game design sucks. And it's sad to see people so misinformed and hating on another concept that truly works. But that's that and this is this. (For those people who read this comment as "FFXI should be WoW", what is wrong with you?)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.

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It takes "mere days" to complete an empyrean? Really? Completing an empyrean means doing ALL the trials and making it into the level 99 version (if you want to nitpick it needs afterglow too, to be truly complete) and unless you are sitting on millions and millions of gil there is no way you can complete that empyrean in "mere days". That is assuming the heavy metal plates and riftdross/cinders are plentiful in bazaars too, obviously.

It sure as hell took me a LOT more than "mere days" to complete my 2 level 99 empyrean weapons. It took hours and hours of doing VWNM (especially for the first one, when heavy metal plates were over twice the price they are currently), hoping I'd get heavy metal pouches, and hours and hours of dynamis currency farming etc. to make gil to buy heavy metal plates and riftdross/cinders.

Same goes for relics - a relic weapon is only complete once it's level 99. Again, you need millions of gil for those 5 marrows for the last trial, unless you're lucky enough to have a linkshell or a group of friends to help you with ADL.

And no, I never bitched when Abyssea was released. I never bitched when my 28mil Dusk Gloves +1 were reduced to being worth less than 300k. I never bitched when my 16mil Ares's Cuirass was made worthless by ingot price dropping to a tenth of what I paid. Why? Because level cap kept being raised and I don't think any of us expected every single piece of gear to stay relevant. However, I did expect R/E/Ms to stay relevant at level 99. And by the looks and sounds of it, I'm not alone there.

Also, I don't get why people insist on comparing FFXI to other MMOs. FFXI was never like other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.

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I guess what you've failed to do is explain how this new system is in any way superior to the old system.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on why radically changing the game reward design is a good idea when subscribers were apparently comfortable enough with the old system to stay subscribed for 11 years. Specifically, we've moved from a fairly unique "any gear you make will be useful for years" reward system to a Warcraft-esque "new dungeon came out. Time to ditch all your old gear and get the new stuff" system. How is this alternative superior in a game that does not really have the potential to attract new subscribers but was very good at retaining old ones?

Watch they piss off more people by making the fix to the r/m/e situation random synergy augments.

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That's an MMO for you.

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I Agree, That may be what most crap MMO's do, but that's never what FFXI was, and is why the core of these people are upset. I honestly don't know who's been arguing in this thread, if they're crying cause their gear is outdated and their epeen is broke, well sucks to be them. But for the reasnoable lot of us, Its about this design not being the FFXI we've all liked.

I don't think a single event outside of Legion introduced a horde of "Mediocre sidegrades", VW, Meebles, NNI, they introduced some top peices, even Neo_salvage introduced a good chunk of "best" set items, for THF i know for sure, and Reive armor offered amazing easy to obtain upgrades.

But Reives are not fun, and they're 90% of the content right now. Skirmish? I really had fun with Skirmish actually, it was exciting and quick, and I even got a Scythe out of it... But that's cool. I worked on that gear because I liked the idea of having a good weapon for my jobs I don't want RME for... Its just i mean is no one seeing the absurdity of D:108 Daggers? I mean downright BONKERS.

I like some of these events, I like some of the ideas they're throwing out, Its not that I completely hate it, I just don't think this is the FFXI I grow to love in 10 years. Its got nothing to do with "being good and you will adapt", no, If you like laying back and taking whatever they shove up your a**, i mean, all to you, kinda kinky, but its not me. I liked FFXI, not World Of GrearGrinder: Rift Wars XI.

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

Watch they piss off more people by making the fix to the r/m/e situation random synergy augments.

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Gilfinder +1 On Mandau, HQ Augment will be Treasure Hunter +1.

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I'd also like to hear your thoughts on why radically changing the game reward design is a good idea when subscribers were apparently comfortable enough with the old system to stay subscribed for 11 years. Specifically, we've moved from a fairly unique "any gear you make will be useful for years" reward system to a Warcraft-esque "new dungeon came out. Time to ditch all your old gear and get the new stuff" system. How is this alternative superior in a game that does not really have the potential to attract new subscribers but was very good at retaining old ones?

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And can someone answer this for me? Seriously, Honest request. I want someone to explain to me why this is a good design choice for FFXI, and please provide answers to each one of Byrth's points. Hell, if you have a few for us, We'd be happy to answer them, me specifically. :)

Beyond that, bruised egos isn't even the problem here. The problem is that melees, which have long been the most efficient damage source, just received a 20-50% DPS boost depending on the job and access to the HQ Delve weapons. The NQ R/Ex Delve weapons can be purchased with plasma, the Delve equivalent of Cruor/etc., so they're not an unknown. They will be obtained by everyone that wants them.

These "NQ" Delve weaponsweapons are: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/April_2...hanges#Weapons

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*Rigor Baghnakhs (H2H) - DMG:+101 Delay:+60 Accuracy+15 Automaton: Accuracy+20 Ranged Accuracy+20 Magic Accuracy+20 - (Spharai D+52 Delay+86)
* Aphotic Kukri (Dagger) - DMG:91 Delay:200 STR+6 Accuracy+18 Evasion+10 - (Mandau D55/176)
* Halachuinic Sword (Sword) - DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
* Bereaver (GS) - DMG:209 Delay:456 Accuracy+18 Attack+18
* Brethren Axe (Axe) - DMG:132 Delay:288 Accuracy+16 Enmity-4 Pet: Accuracy+20
* Bloodbath Axe (GA) - DMG:231 Delay:504 Accuracy+18 "Double Attack"+2%
* Dimmet Scythe (Scythe) - DMG:242 Delay:528 Accuracy+13 Attack+20
* Ophidian Trident (Polearm) - DMG:181 Delay:396 DEX+8 VIT+8 Accuracy+8 Wyvern: Increases accuracy
* Kiji (Katana) - DMG:87 Delay:190 Accuracy+16 Evasion+13 - (Kikoku D64/210)
* Uguisumaru (GKT) - DMG:192 Delay:420 STR+7 Accuracy+17
* Soothsayer Staff (Staff) - DMG:145 Delay:366 MP+50 INT+10 Magic Accuracy+15 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+52
* Yaskomo's Pole (Staff) - DMG:150 Delay:402 MP+100 Avatar: Magic Accuracy+18 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+42
* Mondaha's Cudgel (Staff) - DMG:130 Delay:340 MP+30 MND+10 Accuracy+17
* Speleogen Bow (Bow) - DMG:221 Delay:600 Ranged Accuracy+18 Ranged Attack+15
* Surefire Arquebus (Gun) - DMG:96 Delay:600 Ranged Accuracy+18 Ranged Attack+10 Enmity-4

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Italicized ones have not been confirmed, but probably drop off/are given access to by killing the low Tier NMs. These are the worst weapons added in this patch and they still utterly crush the 99 R/M/E alternatives across the board.


Now, on to the real issue. If everyone has these weapons (and anyone that wants to will) then they will become the new DD standard. Other sources of damage (like Magic, Ranged, or Pet) were already not competitive with a buffed melee, and now they're not going to be competitive with an unbuffed melee. If you examine the above weapons, you'll notice that mages got kind of stiffed on the easy-version. The nuking staff isn't as good as a ToM/Skirmish staff and the Avatar MAB staff is worse than the Skirmish staff. The Ranged weapons are okay but lack access to Coronach/Namas Arrow/Wildfire which means that they're strategically crappy.

Melee jobs were buffed hard and other sources of damage didn't improve much. This is not moving us towards being able to use different types of damage strategically as the situation calls for them. This is reinforcing the dominant strategy of meleeing everything to death.

Edit: Additionally, SE screwed 1H jobs by making one incredibly-high DPS weapon that's easily obtainable for each weapon type. 2H jobs will obviously use that weapon and gain the full effects of its DPS boost, but 1H jobs will probably still have to Dual Wield and thus will be using one lower DPS weapon, which decreases their overall DPS. SE took a lot of steps backwards along the path that they seemed to be traversing with this update. Maybe it's necessary to go where they want to be, but I used to think that I could see where we were headed and now I don't know.

Any feedbacks from the JP community? I'm curious how they react to those new weapons.

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Originally Posted by Lotto

Any feedbacks from the JP community? I'm curious how they react to those new weapons.

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They're threatening to quit en masse / making "goodbye" posts and the mods are working overtime deleting their posts.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I Agree, That may be what most crap MMO's do

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Good work quoting me out of context and missing the point.

To clarify. Challenge new content. That's an MMO for you.

And yes. You, me and the other 1% of the players actually challenge the new content.

And to your second question. There are very very few players left that played for straight 11 years and is content with the game. This whole decision probably came from higher up in SE. "Make FFXI better so new players actually stays in the game and play as the user base is dwindling already."

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Originally Posted by Elexia

"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

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You don't seem to understand why R/E/Ms are complaining. I don't mind that some weapons are close or a bit higher than my R/E/Ms 99 but when a weapon that you can buy at the AH just destroy a weapon I needed months to build, there's a problem. Another thing is they don't even offer a solution right now, the "we'll look into it" isn't acceptable. Right now I feel cheated, this is just an insult from SE to every R/E/Ms 99 holders.

When I check the stats on all those new weapons I only see the message from SE to some his players : ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

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Originally Posted by Byrth

They're threatening to quit en masse / making "goodbye" posts and the mods are working overtime deleting their posts.

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Pretty much, the one Asym translated last night sounded like they've lost all hope, lol. Idk, but I saw one person has already gotten the 170~ dmg rare/ex club, so... So much for nerfing before anyone can get them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lotto

You don't seem to understand why R/E/Ms are complaining. I don't mind that some weapons are close or a bit higher than my R/E/Ms 99 but when a weapon that you can buy at the AH just destroy a weapon I needed months to build, there's a problem. Another thing is they don't even offer a solution right now, the "we'll look into it" isn't acceptable. Right now I feel cheated, this is just an insult from SE to every R/E/Ms 99 holders.

When I check the stats on all those new weapons I only see the message from SE to some his players : ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

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If you feel that way then do so like many others and unsubscribe. If you honestly think whining on here is going to get R/E/M updates out any faster you're well crazier than the devs that came up with the new weapons.

I'm more than likely in the same or similar boat as Elexia, my weapons have been out classed now it's time to replace them.

If all of you canceled instead of crying, one of two things happens:

1) R/E/M get pushed to the top of the priority list.
2) You kill off the profit of FFXI and it dies.

In either case you "win" and your voice is heard.

For me, it's not so much the lack of relic upgrades, I don't think weapons should have that much damage, not now, not ever. It's too big a jump, unhealthy growth. Just my opinion.

When are they going to realize that consistently designing content that requires large groups in a game that does not help you form or join large groups in any way is a serious fundamental flaw?

A lot of people have bad feelings about FFXIV, but Naoki Yoshida understands this concept very well. I have a lot of respect for this man and I think FFXIV: ARR is going to be a wonderful game with him at the helm.

If FFXI inherited even one tenth of his design and communication philosophy, it would be a much much better (and profitable) experience

Say what you want about Abyssea. At its core, I do not believe it was popular just because it put most players into god mode. I believe it was popular because it was very accessible on an individual level. People liked it because when they logged in, there was ALWAYS something they could do, whether they were alone or with just a couple of friends.

I've been playing on and off for a couple years now. I do not have a large linkshell. I don't even know 17 other people. I have Nebo, my girlfriend's character and one other player that I do things with every day. (I would bet serious gil that this is representative of a large segment of subscribers)

And honestly, I find all of this new alliance content off-putting. I have whacked all of the roots I can stomach. I haven't been to a wildskeeper reive yet and I can't check to see if people are in the area doing them. I'm sure its reasonable to assume that people are doing them after this update but what if I go in there and no one is there? 100K Bayld well spent? (I'm contributor in 2 coalitions no and they are still 100k?)

These new delve NMs seem to require alliances...again, I'm not interested in spamming the shout channel for hours to do attempt this new alliance content. Not my idea of fun.

Don;t get me wrong, it's not the idea of playing with groups and cooperating with other people that I mind. I quite enjoy large group events. I love playing with other people. I even enjoy dying repeatedly when trying different strategies on content to findwhat works and doesn't work.

What I HATE is that the only way to form groups is through the shout channel and speaking to/inviting every individual peosonally...except I cannot invite anyone to a party that is not in the same area, and only people in certain areas can see my shout.

The problem for me is simple: Not only does FFXI NOT help me form groups, it also puts up several hurdles in my way. Trying to form pickup groups with this system is often not worth the hours of playtime it costs me. So more often than not, I do not do content that requires these large groups.

Sooner or later I'll run out of interesting things to do (seeing as how everything before SoA just got wiped off the map) and end up quitting most likely.

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

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You should check again, your recollections are off.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

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Where did you hear this?

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Originally Posted by Umichi

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage.

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Technically true, but the gap in DPS is much larger than this would account for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Umichi

Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

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False.

when you're working with weapons that have double the base damage of relics/mythics/emps as well as relic-sized stat bonuses, r/m/e's "other bonuses" are effectively rendered moot.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage.

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This is true, however a GK which has over 100 base damage more than the 99 R/E/M GKs is going to absolutely crush all 3 of them damage wise despite their aftermaths/hidden effects.

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Originally Posted by Umichi

Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

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SE has never said this. In fact, SE hasn't given us as much as a hint how the upgrades to R/M/Es will be done (because they themselves don't know yet), all they have said is that it will eventually (probably) be possible for us to upgrade them. Key word: eventually.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

SE has never said this.

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What they did say was that they weren't sure if they had the resources or manpower to implement the RME upgrade system they imagined.

So it's not even a certainty that it will happen. And even if it does, it's not out of the concept phase.

Hold your breath for it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

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Actually the story does explain why you need 30k Alex and the rest of the tasks maybe you should complete it before making these statements (I have twice)

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

when you're working with weapons that have double the base damage of relics/mythics/emps as well as relic-sized stat bonuses, r/m/e's "other bonuses" are effectively rendered moot.

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solo lvl 3 skillchains disagree as a dragoon you can spam those for quite some time..., looking at the drg polearm I also see it lacks +40 acc, or anything that augments jumps or makes drakesbane 30% stronger, or deals double damage occasionally. do you also notice how low the delay is on it? 392 that means it takes ~10 hits to even do a ws with that thing. which means bye bye 5 hit set-up or 5-6 depending on the player, if anything after store tp and haste your going to be hitting around 6-7 hits to get a ws off, the only difference is it might be a little bit faster or just about the same or less (depending on the player) as a 492 delay weapon..

outside of mythic which i havent talked to many drgs with it please tell me how a higher base damage is going to out do any of Drg's RME?

Edit: it has come to my attention that Drg's lances may be more balanced than others which is why the stats on this weapon made me compare them as almost equals on the field of battle.

Edit: And to the comment augmenting rMEs I apoligize as I stated i had heard not confirmed.

this is also the first time weapons have actually been allowed higher gear levels and be accesible by everyone compared to armour which was caught up ages ago

Well:
* Gungnir and Rhongo are not good weapons (both are worse than Ryunohige even if it doesn't have AM3 up), so lets not discuss them because they are irrelevant.
* Ryunohige enhances Jump and High Jump by making them Crit. It also gives Jump +35% Attack at level 99. People use Spirit/Soul Jump for the extra TP, so those enhancements are useless.
* Ryunohige is D151/492 delay. The new (NQ) polearm is D181/396 delay. Assuming constant, free AM3 on Ryunohige, it would have approximately equivalent DPS to the new (NQ) polearm. AM3 isn't constant or free, so the DPS is actually lower.
* Assuming constant, free AM3 on Ryunohige, it has higher TP gain than the new polearm. However, AM3 isn't constant or free and you sacrifice 300TP to activate it. Whether or not it actually WSs more will depend on the event.
* Drakesbane with Damage+30% is better than Stardiver with 30 more base damage against content that doesn't resist critical hits (like Morta, Bismarck, or Legion's Mul wave 2-3 monsters). So that's an advantage for Ryunohige 99.

So congrats, Level 99 Ryunohige with free AM3 is probably a better weapon than the 30k plasma Polearm some of the time. Of course, this is kind of an issue:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/8/8...escription.png

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Originally Posted by Oakrest

This is the saddest most ironic message I've ever read on these forums. Any body who hit the like button on your post is ignorant and/or jealous. Don't you think if anybody in FFXI is going to get the new weapons, it's people who obtained a Relic/M/E? These are the players who always obtained the best-of-the-best, why would that change now?

The reason R/M/E holders aren't as much disappointed that their weapon is replaced, but that they have to do the work to obtain them and disband a legacy carried on for 10 years.

What a sad post.

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Contradiction much? The reason you build a bad*ss weapon is to smash notorious baddies harder, more efficiently. Now SE gives you better, badder toys to smash things even harder. What's there to complain about? Just relax, embrace the change. You should go out see the real world sometimes. It is beautiful and constantly changing. 10yrs is a very very long time, even in real word standard, my friend. In 10yrs, Europe will melt, China will rule the world, Yellow will become the new White, supremacy will be spelled backward. That's how long 10yrs is.

forgive me but im not well versed in all the weapons from this... also from the perspective of a min/maxer gugnir and rhongo hold no light to ryu. so they are still relavent to a mass of players who don't min/max

as far as the polearm you listed that looks like it's going to require alot of time and effort to build do you have any info in regards to how it's built? if anything i can see this being in the realms of RME (aka well be adding another letter Than RME and then this lance.... if that sentence made ay sense eg RMEU ehrtr U is this weapons first letter) after adjustments (if they do indeed execute them) if they don't then yes this weapon is indeed OP and most people who own a RME drg wise will indeed kinda be dissappointed.. but think of this how long have they owned their RME? isn't it about time we introduce a whole new tier (that is if they don't plan on upgrading RME) or find a way to recycle older high end weapons into different evolved weapons? I think my last sentence would make a big splash so instead of losing your old weapon you worked hard for it evolves into a better weapon.

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Originally Posted by Stan64

Good work quoting me out of context and missing the point.

To clarify. Challenge new content. That's an MMO for you.

And yes. You, me and the other 1% of the players actually challenge the new content.

And to your second question. There are very very few players left that played for straight 11 years and is content with the game. This whole decision probably came from higher up in SE. "Make FFXI better so new players actually stays in the game and play as the user base is dwindling already."

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nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0

I used your post, which btw was pretty well minded, and used it as a example to explain the argument that its an "MMO" is really just not applicable to FFXI, a 11 year old MMO with a different design idea and structure than most pumped out MMO money schemes we see today

Beyond that, honestly, I like some of the new content as its fun, Skirmish i thoroughly enjoyed it was fast, rewarding, and really nice, I just hate the direction they're taking the "power" boosts, I mean, Byrth's post explain it so perfectly. Its taking the game off the rail, hell we're not even on a train anymore.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0

I used your post, which btw was pretty well minded, and used it as a example to explain the argument that its an "MMO" is really just not applicable to FFXI, a 11 year old MMO with a different design idea and structure than most pumped out MMO money schemes we see today

Beyond that, honestly, I like some of the new content as its fun, Skirmish i thoroughly enjoyed it was fast, rewarding, and really nice, I just hate the direction they're taking the "power" boosts, I mean, Byrth's post explain it so perfectly. Its taking the game off the rail, hell we're not even on a train anymore.

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isn't that how most great adventures start? by flying off the rails?

Yes. Sometimes, but If they disappoint enough people it'll cause a cascade effect. I know if my friends stopped logging on, I'd have 0 reason to continue playing :\, They're my group, my static, my team!

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0

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Then it was I that misunderstood. ^^ I agree with your posts as well. Just different views on the matter.