Newest interview (abyssea was a mistake?)

Because I speak English, the following is Google Translate

When the topic among Japanese users have this interview, producer Ito on Twitter, "What a pity on like I fueled reputation and retranslating maliciously articles interviews Overseas own board certain somehow. 'Comments.

Japanese people in the forum said: "Please tell the truth if there is a mistranslation"
"Abyssea is fun, VW is boring"

Even though we only asked for explanation, GM is "Name Remember Where I have gotten different opinions, Lamas stated that is found with some emotional expression. The discussion is continued in this state If you were, it is considered likely to develop into a violation described in terms such as slander, I very sorry, this thread will be closed. "forcibly closed thread .

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18688-

This interview is very unfortunate because high interest from users in Japan.

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When the topic among Japanese users have this interview, producer Ito on Twitter, "What a pity on like I fueled reputation and retranslating maliciously articles interviews Overseas own board certain somehow. 'Comments.

Japanese people in the forum said: "Please tell the truth if there is a mistranslation"
"Abyssea is fun, VW is boring"

Even though we only asked for explanation, GM is "Name Remember Where I have gotten different opinions, Lamas stated that is found with some emotional expression. The discussion is continued in this state If you were, it is considered likely to develop into a violation described in terms such as slander, I very sorry, this thread will be closed. "forcibly closed thread .

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18688-

This interview is very unfortunate because high interest from users in Japan.

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So basically this is saying that they are blaming the anger over this interview as a mistranslation and that it's the fault of the western players/press. (god remember them saying this about the fatigure system in FFXIV too?)

At least it's nice to see the JP players thinks the same as us.

The dev team are ignoring players worldwide here, Abyssea was good and in total honesty that should be down to the players to judge not them.

Quite a lot of rage going on over on the JP forums about the Abyssea intervew where they said it was a mistake and indeed over VW being crap. Nice to see it there too, their threads are getting locked too cause of people getting angry lol

Oh and some big time rage over Ukon nerf too.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...DdTNHkZiFYGkAw

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Quite a lot of rage going on over on the JP forums about the Abyssea intervew where they said it was a mistake and indeed over VW being crap. Nice to see it there too, their threads are getting locked too cause of people getting angry lol

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...DdTNHkZiFYGkAw

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I agree. It is Good news to know the views do not just reside in N/A Gamers but over in Japan, as well.

Google translate is some of the funniest shit I've ever read.

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Google translate is some of the funniest shit I've ever read.

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read the "There are questions Americans." post XD

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Originally Posted by Runespider

read the "There are questions Americans." post XD

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Supposed to translate to "This American has a question", but yeah, damn, that was the worst translate I've ever read in my life. Just so you know, 「にがて」 means 'bad', not what Google translates it as...

Ito　Comments　JP forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18909-

Jp players annoyed = the director himself makes a post (wish I could read it...google is failing) the english players annoyed = thread deleted or just ignored. Oh well, glad they are on our side with this.

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Ito　Comments　JP forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18909-

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Thank you summoner.

Yeah, a more precise translation would be nice. General gist seems to be, though, "We didn't say that! Someone just screwed up the translation!" Even looking past the context of Abyssea, it doesn't really allude well to other complaints players have been having.

I'm going to try and translate it, but please forgive me if it's wrong. I'm fearful of Google translate, but my own skills are awful. If anyone finds errors with this translation and is decent in Japanese, please let me know so I can correct it. (I will give you credit!)

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

ディレクターの伊藤です。

ZAMによるインタビュー記事の内容が、第3者による某匿名掲示板への誤訳と捏造を含む無責任な投稿によって誤って日本のユーザーに伝わっている件について、改めてインタビューの質問の趣旨と回答の意図をご説明したいと思います。（なお、海外コミュニティでもかなりネガティブな印象なのでは？と言った投稿や、スレッドが荒れているという投稿もありましたが、概ねポジティブに捉えられ、建設的に議論されています。）

某匿名掲示板には、【伊藤「アビセアは失敗作だった」】というタイトルで以下の文が掲載されました。

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This is Director Ito.

The ZAM interview article content was falsely translated by a third party person and so once again I am regarding the interview's questions and answers.

Furthermore, the foreign communities seem to have a negative impression. This submission [I'm assuming this very topic] has started a heated discussion.

An anonymous bulletin board titled "Ito: Abyssea was a failure" [again I'm assuming it's this topic] says there is a downward movement.

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

• アビセアはプレイヤー的には好評だったが、運営側としては失敗だった
• 特にアートマやジェイドでの強化はやりすぎた
  
  これらはアビセアに関する質問と回答の中から、前後の文を無視して抜粋されたようです。
  
  インタビューの趣旨は「アビセアの成功で得たものは何か？」でした。
  それに対しては次のように回答しています。
  
  
  • アビセアで得たものは成功ばかりではない。
  • プレイ感覚も価値も、他のコンテンツとの格差が生じるという問題が浮き彫りになった。
  • アビセアは概ね成功だが、アビセアに関してユーザーから指摘のあったそれらの問題点を開発チームは強く認識している。他のコンテンツをテコ入れすると共に、新規コンテンツの教訓にする。つまり、アビセアは失敗ではなく、他のコンテンツに今後の課題が出来た。
  なお、インタビュー記事でも概ねそのように書かれています。

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* Abyssea was a success among the players, but a failure among developers.
* Special atmas and abyssites made the players too powerful.

This question and answer concerns Abyssea, which seems to have been disregarded.
The purpose of the interview was to answer what was gained from the success of Abyssea.
The opposition is next to be answered.

• We were merely questioning the triumphs of Abyssea.
• We wanted players to feel that other content was worth doing as well. However, there were problems of disparity that Abyssea had engraved into the game.
• Abyssea in general was a success, but, developers realized the strong issues of identification at hand. We want players to participate in new content.

In short, Abyssea was a failure and we are now presenting the new content's theme.

Furthermore, interviews will be written generally.

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

• ヴォイドウォッチはアビセアの失敗を受けて製作された
• バランス、ジョブ、戦利品の仕様など、今までの中でも完成されたコンテンツと思っている
  
  これらはヴォイドウォッチの現状や問題点についての質問の回答を、投稿者が逆の意味に翻訳し、脚色した文章のようです。
  
  インタビューの中では、ヴォイドウォッチの戦利品仕様やバランスなどの現状の問題点の例を挙げ、「ヴォイドウォッチにはまだ今後の調整課題が残されている。」という趣旨で、賛否両論のあるコンテンツと話しています。

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* Voidwatch is the production of Abyssea's downfalls.
* Jobs and drop rates are complete, I think. [Note that Japanese often attach 'I think' at the end of sentences to sound polite. However, I can't decide if this is out of politeness or if he's genuinely considering a change, so I decided to leave this in.]

The contributions to Voidwatch's current drop rate system are dramatized because of the article's improper translation.


Inside of the interview the balance of Voidwatch was brought up. We are still reserving adjustments to the drop rates, and are weighing the pros and cons.

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

• 今のプレイヤーはストーリーよりも強敵との戦闘がしたい、と考えている
  　なので、今後はヴォイドウォッチがFF11の主流になる
  
  こちらは今後についての質問と回答の中から抜粋したものを、投稿者が逆の意味に翻訳し、記事中で述べていない内容でかなり脚色した文章のようです。
  
  インタビューでは、「アビセアとヴォイドウォッチはバトルに焦点を当てたコンテンツでしたが、ストーリーのあるコンテンツが待ち望まれているため、次はこれまでとは異なる新しいものを考えている。」と答えています。

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* I think the balance between jobs and the drop rates are complete.

The article was dramatically incorrect in displaying information about this.

In the interview, it was said that Abyssea and Voidwatch battle systems were the main focus, and that story has a desirable wait to it. Here we are still deciding new considerations.
　

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

• 12月のバージョンアップで弱いジョブというものはなくなった、次からは強すぎるジョブのバランスを取る
• 新規を増やそうと色々頑張ってる
  
  これらは投稿者の捏造のようです。あるいは記事中の様々な単語を持ってきて繋げたのかもしれません。

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* In December's update there were no longer weak jobs and strong jobs needed a balance.
* There were new augments preserved.

It is possible that the article had varied vocabulary in this section. The connection is not yet known.
　
　

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Originally Posted by Mizuki_Ito

ZAMに限らず、海外でインタビューや発表が記事になる場合、校正や事前の確認を行えないため、何をどう書かれるかは公開されるまで分かりません。

ただ、今回の記事の原文を見る限りでは、私たちが伝えたかった内容はインタビュワーには概ね伝わっており、記事の内容に関しても否定する部分はありません。

機械翻訳などのツールを用いて私的に記事を読むのは問題ないと思いますが、それを投稿する場合にはそれなりの責任を伴うはずですし、読み手も充分に注意する必要があると思います。
今回はこうして誤った情報を前提として議論が過熱してしまったところがあり、私も開発チームもだいぶ困惑しているというのが正直なところです。

一方で、この投稿からアビセアとヴォイドウォッチの評価についてフォーラムで皆さんに真剣に語って頂けたことにより、皆さんと私たちの認識がそこまでズレていないことが確認できたことは意味があったと考えています。

私のTwitterのアカウントにも誤った情報を前提としたコメントが寄せられたため、その内容を確認しましたが、フォーラムではない場所で過熱していたためにフォーラムで急に語るわけにもいかず、Twitterで疑問を投げかけさせて頂きました。その結果、余計に混乱を招くことになってしまいました。申し訳ありません。

折角フォーラムがあるのに･･･という点は仰る通りだと思います。案件の大小や内容に関わらず、今後はこう言った部分も含めて、フォーラムを通じて皆さんへ意図をお伝えしたり、ディスカッションをさせていただきます。

最後になりますが、ここまで大きな拗れになったことは、私の信頼のなさも要因のひとつになっていると受け止めています。今後は信頼を得られるよう、より一層、開発に励んで参ります。どうぞよろしくお願いいたします。

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As of this ZAM article's limitations, we have decided to proofread foreign interview announcements beforehand to validate their translation accuracy.

Now we are converting the subject in the interview in a suitable time. [I don't understand this sentence but I tried my best. orz]

Maybe machine translation tools (like Google) pose a problem. Take necessary caution when reading machine translated articles, as they may be inaccurate. It can cause gossip and overheating. Both I and the development team are bewildered at the honesty and integrity of the place.

One day, the assessments about Abyssea and Voidwatch from the forums concerning everyone's seriousness will be recognized, but the current premises are fresh and will be changing.

My Twitter account made a mistake too. If it happens again, comment there, but don't overheat on the forums. Don't rush to the forums, but rather leave me a comment, otherwise there will be unnecessary chaos created.

The forums have great pains although, said points have been received. Subject sizes from now on version drafts of said portion will include everyone and will convey the report of those who have had the privilege of discussing. [I may have butchered this, I'm sorry.]

In conclusion I trust things will not become progressively worse. I have faith that we will obtain the correct method, but we must brace ourselves until the time comes. Please, let us all be nice to each other.

*****

As I stated earlier, this might be inaccurate, and, judging by their dislike of the ZAM "third party" translate, I'm not quite sure how this post will fair. Um, I tried my best. ^^; You can take it or leave it and my feelings won't be hurt. From what I gathered though, it seems Mr. Ito is upset at the uproar the "improperly translated article" has caused. I think he's genuinely concerned for us and will be going to great measures to make the interview more understandable for us nonJapanese members. I don't think they considered Abyssea a failure in the sense that we took it as, but rather as something that would be difficult to outmatch and therefore, have decided to take a completely different turn because of it. They also seemed upset at how powerful atmas and abyssites had made us, so maybe that was their biggest concern.

That just makes them look even worse if they couldn't see how strong atmas or the like would make us. Right back to "we don't play our own game". No matter how they spin it they are so out of touch at this point as a whole the writing is on the wall. The player base had already accepted that any WS numbers, solos in abyssea was in abyssea and didn't mean much once you left abyssea. It still fels like they are back tracking from the last hurrah feel of abyssea over powering.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

That just makes them look even worse if they couldn't see how strong atmas or the like would make us. Right back to "we don't play our own game". No matter how they spin it they are so out of touch at this point as a whole the writing is on the wall. The player base had already accepted that any WS numbers, solos in abyssea was in abyssea and didn't mean much once you left abyssea. It still fels like they are back tracking from the last hurrah feel of abyssea over powering.

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No, I think the * bullets were from the article's translation to which they were referring to. It's not that atmas made someone too powerful or just right, but that they are more concerned with future development being weighed against Abyssea and being judged by Abyssea's standards.

I don't think anyone really expected Abyssea itself as the form of new content, but it seems weird for them to imply they learned from it and tailored Voidwatch around those errors, only to pretty much have it blow up in their face by disregarding one of the most dominating aspects of Abyssea in that effort is actually rewarded.

In the broadest sense, VW did further expand the proc system, taking us beyond a small party having all triggers covered at the expense of the majority of other jobs. However, just because a given job has a unique ability or two doesn't automatically make them desired by players. This is further confounding by their thought that there are currently no weak jobs and that recent nerfs have been justified in reigning back those they feel too powerful. Players with a good knowledge on how jobs currently fare, especially without Atma holding them up, will more than likely disagree with this sentiment.

I dunno. People still want answers about the new WS and their justifications for sidegrades/weaker WS. VW will never be as popular as it could be if they maintain poor drop rates and/or refuse to implement a point system. There are still jobs out there who need help, to be more than just a trigger spell or ability. There is still the issue of trials being unreasonable grinds, maybe even taking matters away from player effort toward how big your wallet is. People do want more stories.

Continued ignorance of these pleas have nothing to do with Abyssea directly. However, it does add fuel to the fire of a lingering sense of disconnect, especially if the interview itself was translated properly. Ultimately, I fear some kind of censorship coming from this as a result, where details expressed on the JP side might be omitted from other languages. Or worse, the rare interview is so watered down and lacking with substance that it would be no real loss if it never happened.

I don't know if the Japanese have an equivalent phrase to "Actions speak louder than words," but what hits the game is representative of the dev's thoughts. In absence of more frequent discourse, game changes are the only communication we get, and it's painfully one-sided. We're mean because we're mad. We're mad because we feel ignored. These are issues that can be fixed, but blaming it all on a mistranslation just emphasizes the current disconnect.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...03542301021635

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Mizuki Ito made a thread saying the contents of the interview were mistranslated by whoever posted it for Japanese players, which set off some crazy "sh*tstorm." He says someone irresponsibly posted a slipshod version, basically.

To help clear this up, I went through and did a quick summary translation. I'll keep an eye on the thread a bit to field any questions you might have, as well.

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First, he addresses the idea that the devs think Abyssea failed.

Ito says: This quote is taken out of context. Abyssea wasn't all successes. The problem is the Abyssea created a rift between itself and other content in terms of play and price. Abyssea was an overall success, they agree, but it brought up some key issues they need to address in existing content and keep in mind for new content.

Then questions concerning the current state and issues involving Voidwatch were translated to give opposite meanings.

Ito says: The issues concerning the Voidwatch drop system were raised, and they will be adjusted. The pros and cons are being debated.

Next, players got the impression that devs are saying "players want big mobs over story, so let's focus on Voidwatch."

Ito says: This was again taken out of context and the meaning was completely reversed in translation to Japanese. The answer was that Abyssea and Voidwatch had focused on battles, and people were waiting for a good story, so they are going to do something different (different than straight battle content)

Lastly, the player who posted the Japanese translation said devs dropped weak jobs in the Dec. update and worked to balance only the strongest jobs. Also, the devs are doing lots of stuff to attract new players.

Ito says: A complete fabrication. At best, he just strung together random words from the article.


Ito goes on to say when interviews like this are done, you cannot simply assume and fabricate what the content is and then present it as fact. Despite the outcry, as far as the original article stands, there is nothing he objects to in terms of what I wrote.

He warns against the problems that machine translation can cause, and says that writers need to accept some responsibility for what they put out there, and readers need to take these translations with a grain of salt.

He also apologizes for not responding quickly enough, but, naturally, he couldn't rush to the forums immediately without understanding the problem. All the while, he's being deluged on Twitter with overly angry and impassioned criticism and questions.

Ito says he is a little disappointed that although they took the effort to create official forums for discussion, things got out of control so quickly. However, he admits that part of this reaction is rooted in a mistrust of the development team, something he genuinely will work to improve.

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Yay, Elmer translated! ^^ Tell him thank you for me on Allakhazam.

So is the complaint about the reverse-translation of the interview from English back to Japanese? Or about the original translation from Japanese to English?

If it's the former, this really doesn't mean anything to the English-speaking playerbase as our translation of the interview was correct, yes?

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So is the complaint about the reverse-translation of the interview from English back to Japanese? Or about the original translation from Japanese to English?

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Yes I'm pretty sure this post by Ito was in reference to the reverse-translation.

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the contents of the interview were mistranslated by whoever posted it for Japanese players

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Despite the outcry, as far as the original article stands, there is nothing he objects to in terms of what I wrote.

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So this is SE tap dancing now that the JP and EN community is starting to get on the same page here. They delete our posts put are quick to answer the JP's. Makes sense considering the NA's can't do jack to effect SE's business operations, but the JP players can interact with the JP gaming community and cause all sorts of press problems over here.

Now to the real question, will they start listening now that the JP's are questioning them? Or will they insist 500 PW kills is "jobs and drops complete".

If they think that the reason we like Abyssea over other content is Atma and feeling powerful - they are nuts (although atma did help fix some serious shortcomings in otherwise lacklustre jobs) - it is the effort to reward ratio - and steady progress over endless RNG

That said - as a BST, having atma show me how crapped on the job was because pets don't usually get buffs - definately did expose how underpowered the job is in normal group content outside of abyssea - but maybe they should work on FIXING that instead of wasting time with the nerf bat.

Really, I'm not entirely convinced whoever is in charge over there isn't just a giant masochist. Just because Abyssea was a great expansion doesn't mean you have to counter-act it with something as incomprehensibly retarded as the Voidwatch Drop rates, and Distribution system.

Its like they enjoy watching us suffer, they enjoy thinking about us screaming at our computer because some pick up guy in full aurore just went 1/1 on a Body you're now 0/182 On. Oh, and he can't even equip it.

It doesn't matter if they realize Abysseas Failings and Successes, Its obvious they've learned nothing from either of them. As far as I'm concerned, this clarification was not needed, as its not like it changes anything. They're still ignoring their playerbases cries when it comes to the flaws of the current system, which is the only thing that matters.

They throw us a bone every now and again for some meaningless content or fix we ask for, to make us think we're making a difference... but really, Has anything of true consequence come from these forums? The only thing i can think of ix 3x ??? for the Abyssea NMs.

Its hard to quit an MMO, you grow attached to your characters, the people you play with, What have you. but its sad to think after 7~8 years, FFXI has become more like a Girlfriend I just don't love anymore, and the only reason I'm staying with her is because I hate being alone more than i hate her.

Give me another good MMO or Single player game though, And I'm dropping it like its hot. Hell, I'm about to cancel this Month just from Skyrim and Saint's row the Third alone...

I hope for FFXI's future, But things do not look good... At all. The Nerfs are back full-swing, the only thing we're truly missing is world-spawn 24-72 Hour NMs to bring back the Bots and E-peen fights between Linkshell to truly ruin this game for good.

=.=

Negative Nancy Aside. Thanks for translating that.

I would like to see an analysis of posts from people saying they hate FFXI now. It seems like its always the same people and they just post a lot.

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I would like to see an analysis of posts from people saying they hate FFXI now. It seems like its always the same people and they just post a lot.

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Lots of content with godo rewards to keep you busy (aby) = good.
Tiny amount of new content (reused stuff from abyssea no less) with .0001 drop rates to make you redo it over and over due to a tiny budget = bad?

Can swap those 2 around for people like you apparantely, but most people see things the way I listed it above.

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Originally Posted by Cowardlybabooon

I would like to see an analysis of posts from people saying they hate FFXI now. It seems like its always the same people and they just post a lot.

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Thats because the other ones actually stopped playing and arent around to voice their opinions.

To sums it up:

- generally players want options, a balance between harder content and more casual ones
- players hate the hamster wheel grind of death, abyssea introduced a much better risk/effort/rewards ratio so that you get some things done a little at a time for a much better reward at the end, the grinding is reasonable and you do not need 18 people
- voidwatch is great in paper but poorly implemented, also unless you have dedicated LS, it is a bit harder to progress and enjoy this content since you need clear of each chapter before able to join the battle. They should get rid of this pre-requisite so that all can participate, after all it's a grind to get better gear and you can go 300 battle and get zero drop.
- yes all future contents will be judged against abyssea from now on, it's not a bad thing, it forces developer to actually use their brain cells to come up with something interesting rather than recycle old stuffs/
- SE REALLY NEED TO PUT SOME EFFORT AND ADD MORE FUNDS to FFXI development. Many people, more than FF14 player base, pay for FF11, so we need better content!!

I think I'm more upset at the fact when we rage-post, all we get are temporary bans and deleted threads. When the Japanese rage, they get a fancy official post from one of the lead Devs, during a holiday break for them nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

I think I'm more upset at the fact when we rage-post, all we get are temporary bans and deleted threads. When the Japanese rage, they get a fancy official post from one of the lead Devs, during a holiday break for them nonetheless.

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Totally agree - but maybe our rages inspired the other players aka Japanese ones to rage as well - and more raging players mean more heat to the developers. Our rage basically justify the rage for others, even Japanes and EU players, that they are not alone - there are others who feel the same way - therefore more fuel to their rage. Rage on!!!

These days - publicity matters, and bad news spread faster than wildfire, one raging players will rage on 20 other players thus spreading the hate news and further increasing the damage dealt on the company's public image. Bad publicity combined with craptastic product pretty much forced SE to publicly admit the failure of FF14 and worked very hard to reverse the damage. I just wish that they too, take extra careful look on what is happening with FFXI and actually put some more funds to develop new contents instead of churning new IP that is craptacular spectacular. SE has company image to maintain and it used to be associated with great quality games.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

I think I'm more upset at the fact when we rage-post, all we get are temporary bans and deleted threads.

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Who got banned? Only people being insulting are getting banned. You can complain all you want, that's why there's a shitload of retarded threads still out, with people like you posting all over it. No one cares. Not even the mods. They're not gonna care for whatever bullshit you think, if it's insulting, they're gonna delete it, if it's just random rage and criticism, they will ignore it. All you're doing is effectively spamming these forums. Congratulations, you may feel special now.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

I think I'm more upset at the fact when we rage-post, all we get are temporary bans and deleted threads. When the Japanese rage, they get a fancy official post from one of the lead Devs, during a holiday break for them nonetheless.

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It's simple really, the senior executives, team lead members and the developers do not speak English, or don't speak it well enough to read this gamer speech laden forum. They rely on the CR's to translate and submit reports, probably held at weekly meetings where the team leads mostly just dismiss them. The Japanese players on the other hand write in Japanese and thus the seniors can easily read their feedback directly. But most importantly, bad press or some angry foreign fan sites aren't going to impact SE Corporate proper, sure they may make a bad name for SE but only amongst the MMO playing community of FFXI. The Japanese gamers on the other hand will make posts and reports to the Japanese game sites and fan clubs. In Japan that sh!t is taken seriously and bad press on FFXI will make major game reporting news, that in turn will negatively effect the SE brand image in Japan, something the CEO and senior executives will not tolerate. East Asian companies react extremely fast to protect their brand image, but only in their respective country's. I don't expect Samsung to give a damn what Japanese, America or British citizens think about them, but if South Korean's got all pissed you can bet they would rapidly fix whatever the issue was.

In short, no SE doesn't care about us. We don't speak Japanese, we don't post on Japanese forums, we don't interact with Japanese gaming publications. We don't effect their Japanese brand image in the slightest, their senior executives will never read your posts, will never hear what you wrote, will never ever, not even for the slightest moment, know what you think. The CR's do not translate the negative posts, they don't relay the bad news, and in all actuality their probably under orders to disregard all negative responses.

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I think I'm more upset at the fact when we rage-post, all we get are temporary bans and deleted threads. When the Japanese rage, they get a fancy official post from one of the lead Devs, during a holiday break for them nonetheless.

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The JP devs can read the forums themselves and see these things, they can't do the same here so it's down to the reps to pick things and for them to them be translated over (translating stuff over is a pain in the ass I guess too). As for the bans/deleted topics etc that's more a fact that the english forums have people like arcon that report people constantly, I don't think the JP players really enjoy that practice as much so you don't see the same kind of problem there.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Who got banned?

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Several people have admitted receiving temporary bans recently from this forum on other forums.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

All you're doing is effectively spamming these forums. Congratulations, you may feel special now.

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And what is it exactly that you contribute to these forums? All i see are 1300 posts belittling people who have a different opinion as your own. It's like you come on here just to get off on being some sort of virtuous voice of reason on all things FFXI. I don't need this forum to feel special. I come here to be entertained by the train wreck while I'm bored at work.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

Several people have admitted receiving temporary bans recently from this forum on other forums.

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It was rhetorical question. I answered it myself in the next sentence, if you bothered to read it:

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Who got banned? Only people being insulting are getting banned.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

And what is it exactly that you contribute to these forums? All i see are 1300 posts belittling people who have a different opinion as your own.

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Then you're either blind or didn't read my posts. Or you don't understand them. I believe it's the latter.

I don't care for different opinions. I care for bullshit. If someone comes here and says "I like Abyssea" I will say "Hey, good for you! Want a cookie?", however, if they come and say "Abyssea was good and the old game was bad and now the devs aren't listening to us anymore!", that's different. That's not you expressing your opinion. That's you stating assertions about the game, which can be debated. And I will debate them.

People like you think everything they say is an opinion. That's garbage. If people are being retarded, I will try to straighten them out. Sadly, in this forum that's quite a bit of work, but I'm not easily discouraged.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

I come here to be entertained by the train wreck while I'm bored at work.

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Good for you. The first opinion you have expressed in the last few posts. Which is why I won't argue it. I will, however, point out that you calling me belittling of others' opinions, yet yourself admitting you come here to "be entertained by the train wreck" doesn't exactly put you in a strong moral position over me.

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Arcon

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You're a very angry person Arcon, it's the holidays...go get drunk or high..or something XD

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People like you think everything they say is an opinion. That's garbage. If people are being retarded, I will try to straighten them out. Sadly, in this forum that's quite a bit of work, but I'm not easily discouraged.

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You think you are fixing peoples views but you don't actually understand that people can't argue without someone to argue with, you are actually giving us all someone to argue with and make our random rantings on the forum more entertaining. Keep up the good work mr angry arcon! :D

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Then you're either blind or didn't read my posts. Or you don't understand them. I believe it's the latter.

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So you're subtlety calling me a idiot, touche!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I don't care for different opinions. I care for bullshit. If someone comes here and says "I like Abyssea" I will say "Hey, good for you! Want a cookie?", however, if they come and say "Abyssea was good and the old game was bad and now the devs aren't listening to us anymore!", that's different. That's not you expressing your opinion. That's you stating assertions about the game, which can be debated. And I will debate them.

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Fair enough, but there is a positive way to debate things without sounding like a condescending douchebag. It honestly makes you no better than the people you go after.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You're a very angry person Arcon, it's the holidays...go get drunk or high..or something XD

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I'm not nearly as angry as I seem on here. I'm kinda like Avelonia, just bored and nothing else to do. Also, I'm not here to argue with you. You're either a troll or an idiot, either way I know I won't convince you. But my conscience won't let me just stand by and let you spew your bullshit without any opposition. It's for people with half a brain who come here to find out that this forum isn't just populated by retarded baboons like the FFXIAH, BG and ZAM forums so unanimously say.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You think you are fixing peoples views but you don't actually understand that people can't argue without someone to argue with, you are actually giving us all someone to argue with and make our random rantings on the forum more entertaining.

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Good to know this is also just entertainment for you. Either way, that's bullshit, as usual. You were ranting long before I came along and will rant long after I've given up. You say I'm angry? Deflect much? You're the one starting thread after thread (which get deleted time after time), ranting, rallying and insulting people on the development and production team. Call me angry if you want, you're obviously not any better.

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Originally Posted by Avelonia

Fair enough, but there is a positive way to debate things without sounding like a condescending douchebag. It honestly makes you no better than the people you go after.

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Probably, but I'm not out to win a popularity contest. If my bullshit radar goes off, I will call people out on it, regardless of how it makes me seem.

There's also a subtle difference. I know it won't make it any better either, but it's a matter of who deserves it. I'm kind of an eye-for-an-eye kinda guy. If people are being insulting, stupid and stubborn about it, I have no issues being insulting, stupid and stubborn about it in return (although I try to avoid the stupid part wherever I can). I'm more than capable of arguing normally (and agreeing normally, as strange as it may sound sometimes), and I will show respect to whoever is respectful towards me and others. He's not one of those people. Simple as that.

And here's the thing: if we knew for a fact that Tanaka is the evil guy Runespider believes him to be, I would have no issue with this whatsoever. But it's not a matter of opinion that his arguments are retarded. He doesn't even argue when I call him out on it, if that's a sign of anything. Yet he keeps going on and on about it, making new threads several times a week, with absolutely the same content, only to shut up again when I tell him how stupid he is (or when they get deleted). And then he turns and says I'm angry or whatever and thinks that makes him more popular or whatever (well, I guess he is, given the likes on his posts), but worst of all, he thinks it makes him right. Which it doesn't. He's a sad little boy who got his toys taken away, and he's angry about it, so he comes on here and rages about it. I only wish mods had a strict bullshit policy, then he would have been gone long ago.

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He's a sad little boy who got his toys taken away, and he's angry about it, so he comes on here and rages about it. I only wish mods had a strict bullshit policy, then he would have been gone long ago.

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I'm not angry at all and I don't think my posts ever reflect anger unlike you, I get a bit irritated after a marathon run at VW with no drops but not angry. I leave that to you, I still laugh when you get really angry and spout hippy! like some old war veteran or something.. XD

I post here ultimately because I have a lot of time invested in the game and I care about how it evolves, I want the game to be the best it can be for me and everyone else that plays it (I know you agree on some things with me, ie VW loot systems etc and not on others, thats fine). Old FFXI won't make FFXI more successfull (lets agree to disagree on this but most agree with me on that), I don't want to play another game because none of them appeal to me and as such since we have an avenue to communicate with them about what we like and dislike about FFXI we will use it.

Ultimately what we post has almost no impact on anything aside from the our fellow posters, it just makes us feel better about our respective views. I've long since come to terms that that the JP players are the decision makers in terms of player views..luckily most of them seem to have similar views to those of us that aren't happy about recent developments.

Also I don't think the guy you mentioned is evil but I know his ideas are outdated, unpopular and generally not nice for players, judge people on what they put out last (ff14).

Dealing with Arcon is simple, click his name then click "ignore this poster", *poof* problem solved.

Thank you, saevel. You have saved me the tedium of scrolling past long-winded, pointlessly angry posts. Now I just have to scroll past a couple of lines and know that I'm still not missing anything.

Here is a picture for your enjoyment.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...Atombstone.jpg

The dev team knows what we want but to give us what we want would compromise their skewed views of "balance". "balance" being content that takes years to complete just so they do not have to add newer content.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

The dev team knows what we want but to give us what we want would compromise their skewed views of "balance". "balance" being content that takes years to complete just so they do not have to add newer content.

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This. The main issue I have with the current game is a lack of new content. Love it or hate it, Abyssea was an absolutely massive amount of new content with a very high degree of participation that has kept players busy for quite a while. My concern is that the new content now is very thin and the developers are taking care of the "keep players busy" part simply by adding low random drop rates and absurd requirements for repeating the same event over and over to accomplish the goals. I prefer the former style but SE seems to not want to make the investment.