Google translate is ALWAYS a hackjob. Seriously, where are our bilinguals who can accurately translate all the stuff we're saying? I know there are some around here somewhere...
[dev1049] New weapon skills
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12-12-2011, 03:10 PMTheytak
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12-12-2011, 03:11 PMGreatguardian
I can think of 4 off the top of my head. They're pretty easy to spot, they have funny moogle avatars and all of their posts show up in blue.
Don't worry. I highly doubt this is an issue of our feedback not being sent to the Devs in their language. Them hearing us and them listening to us are two completely different things. -
12-12-2011, 03:21 PMTheytakI mostly just meant so that people stop posting google-translated nonsense and thinking they were helping at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Greatguardian
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12-12-2011, 03:26 PMGreatguardianI know. I was addressing them as well, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
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12-12-2011, 04:07 PMkingfury------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
lol well when the "bilinguals" open a thread on these forums for us Google Translate dependents to have our thoughts quickly and accurately translated to help the Com. Reps out, let me know! Google Translate is a major pain in the neck, but realistically, one can only hope the Devs are at least a tiny bit partial to us attempting to self translate lol... I would hope...
I honestly feel bad for the Com. Reps on Monday mornings after what... 10-20 pages of Text Wall-to-Text Wall post of feedback to translate to the Devs. Google Translate sux crackers, but I can imagine the Com. Reps get a laugh out of it at least :D -
12-12-2011, 08:29 PMsaevelI'll probably end up .dat swapping the new WS's onto some of the more boring older ones. That way I can at least enjoy looking at the pretty visuals and pretending their new.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfury
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12-12-2011, 08:34 PMSpankWustler
When I put a recent post by Mocchi into Google translate, it transformed some text about Blue Mage and clubs into something else entirely.
The translated post began with a bit of none-too-subtle innuendo about how Blue Mages were lonely for want of proper poles, briefly approached making sense by referencing Trials of Magians and White Mage-only poles (but mentioned neither by name), had a lengthy bit of vague jibberish in the middle, and closed by implying people are annoying.
I suspect the vague jibberish in the middle was accurate in spirit if not in letter, but you get the idea. I will say that Google Translate is much better now than when it first began, only because it is no longer obsessed with fish. -
12-12-2011, 10:52 PMNeisan_Quetz
Supposedly on JP forums SE has stated they will be weakening Ruinator to be equal to rampage with 2-3 crits (same for Realmrazer compared to Hexa Strike), they want Rdms and Blus to use Requiescat but not Plds (so keeping the attack penalty), and they want Shijin to be weaker than Stringing Pummel.
Well, thanks a lot for that then. -
12-12-2011, 11:23 PMmacross
Yeah, jpn friend told me axe getting nerfed too.
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12-13-2011, 12:11 AMSparthos
SE>> We want this update to fail.
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12-13-2011, 12:54 AMAldersyde
Is there any new ws that is actually better than one already in the game?
WHY on earth would I put 10>15>20>25>30 merits into a ws just to have it be equal to a ws I've had since 2005-2006? That's the million-dollar question. Getting 1,000,000 xp (despite the ease in which it can be acquired) for a ws that is merely equal to what we already have is sheer lunacy. 1,000,000 xp for something that is merely pretty? I'm getting tired of this side-grade bullshit. Level 99 and merited weapon skills should have been epic, instead, it's just garbage.
/Sigh, and I was looking forward to an improvement over rampage. -
12-13-2011, 12:56 AMEconomizer
Yeah, speaking of garbled Google Translate, even mucking through it, I can say with near-total confidence that the JP forums thread on this is almost a perfect mirror, except without any paranoia about not being listened to because they speak English.
I mean, it is eerie how closely they mirror the topics we've been talking about, at least in the last several pages of chatter. -
12-13-2011, 01:04 AMdarkhorrorUgh.... Why does SE hate us so much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz
Now my question is how are they making Ruinator weaker? Anyone good at translating? -
12-13-2011, 01:11 AMNeisan_Quetz
All I could reasonably get that made any sense was they want it to be equal to Rampage with 2-3 crits, and it was meant less for Knight than Red demon taoist and Blue demon taoist.
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12-13-2011, 01:11 AMdarkhorror
So SE thinks it's a good idea to make a bunch of WS's with some of the best animations we have seen, that cost 100 merits, and are level 96+, but are weaker than ones we have been using since lvl 50+?
This makes zero sense. -
12-13-2011, 01:13 AMGreatguardian
[size=8]DO NOT SCREW WITH SHIJIN SPIRAL. IT IS THE ONLY THING IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW THAT MAKES SPHARAI WORTH MAKING AND COMPETITIVE WITH VERETH. THIS MEANS IT'S THE ONLY BLOODY WS THAT'S WORKING PROPERLY.[/size]
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12-13-2011, 01:13 AMKincard
They're planning on making it deal something like half the damage it does now. Like Neisan said, they want to balance it so that will do similar damage to Rampage assuming all hits connect and 2-3 crits. The implication is that you would want to use Ruinator over Rampage in low-crit situations because it will supposedly have better consistency.
I'm also going to throw in the "why spend 100 merits on this stuff". I don't mind if SE wants there to be more variety in the weapon skills we use, but making one of those situational WSs cost 100 merit points, instead of making us level into it, is just really silly.
Also stop using Google translate please, the pseudo-Japanese it spits out is laughable to anybody who has even a rudimentary grasp of the language. ISHYGDDT
EDIT: As far as I can tell GG, they don't plan on touching Shijin Spiral. That entire post they did was more or less to explain why it's power level isn't over 9000 like a lot of players are asking for it to have. -
12-13-2011, 01:20 AMdarkhorrorWe all know that SE has problems implementing in a way that makes sense. But if they don't tell us how they are trying to accomplish it, we will just have to wait till next update and see what they did. fTP change, attack penalty, we will have to wait and see I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kincard
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12-13-2011, 01:34 AMFinuve
SE, ALL MERIT WSs SHOULD BE STRONGER THAN ALL NON EMPY WSs, Relic WSs should be boosted to be stronger than merit WSs, and Mythic WSs should be boosted when using Mythics to be stronger than Merit WSs (this last is already usually the case)
in essence Empy > Mythic(With mythic weapon only) = Relic > Merit > ALL ELSE
Make Relics and Mythics = Empy outside of the WSs
Is this THAT HARD?
shift key = fun as well -
12-13-2011, 01:38 AMByrth
I guess I should post a picture in case people are missing it:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...fde77971b0.jpg
This could all be "working as intended." 100 merits gets your foot in the door, and then they release the next patch. -
12-13-2011, 01:47 AMGreatguardian
What in the world could they possibly merit up aside from the WSC that would make the WS worth using though? Would they actually allow us to bump up fTP with merits? Even 0.1 per upgrade for 5 upgrades could be overpowered as balls on the WS which retain fTP through all hits.
Even if Group 2 is WS-related, I'm looking forward to Attack Penalty reductions for Req/Res, and Plague duration increases on Shijin, etc. None of which will really salvage the skills if they nerf them even more. -
12-13-2011, 01:52 AMLaxedraneI personally think the order should be Empyreon>Relic>Mythic since mythic are emphasis on stats on weapon while relic is emphasis on break and buff weaponskills with highest DoT.(Not counting aftermaths of course)Quote:
Originally Posted by Finuve
Of course I am of the school of thought that they should make mythics aftermath all 3 and just have higher tp increase the effect and duration. So don't mind me. -
12-13-2011, 01:54 AMSoidisant
If there was a Group 2 then it would either have to be 1 individual tweak for each WS or merits that apply to all meritted WS'es across the board otherwise the scroll list would be silly.
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12-13-2011, 02:00 AMByrth
Crit rate, Accuracy, fTP, TP Bonus, and Attack could all be applied across the board.
Like:
fTP: +12/256 per merit level (~+0.05 fTP)
Attack/RAtk: +5% per merit level
Accuracy: +10 per merit level
Crit Rate: +1% per merit level
TP Bonus: +20 TP Bonus per merit level
etc. I'm sure there are more. Point is, the heading says "Group 1." Maybe "Group 2" is going to be another set of weaponskills that cost a lot of merits and no one cares to use, but I doubt it. Or maybe the "Group 1" is the result of sloppy copy-pasta from Tier 1/2 job merits. -
12-13-2011, 02:02 AMdarkhorror
So you're tell me there is a chance! haha
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12-13-2011, 02:04 AMGreatguardian
TP bonus would be interesting. Would they really add crit rate to WS that already have non-crit effects? I don't think we've ever seen this done, but it would be interesting.
Granted, I completely forgot the potential of TP bonus, I'm just not getting my hopes up. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised later than disappointed when group 2 is Attack +2/merit. All I see right now is a whole slew of nerfs to what could have been awesome WS.
Also, people will shit bricks if they screw with Shijin Spiral. It is currently perfect. It's situationally useful, and only stronger than Vereth/Smite if you have a 99 Relic - and even then only by a couple %. This is right where it should be. Nerfing it makes absolutely no sense. -
12-13-2011, 03:53 AMByrth
All I'm saying is, most of these weaponskills are very obviously not useful and look like they've been intentionally made that way. The only "strong" part of most of these WSs is their modifier. I don't know exactly what they're planning for Group 2, or even if the Group 1 header is anything more than laziness, but I'd hesitate to totally write them off for all time.
At the moment, none of these weaponskills are so awesome that I'm going to go merit right after the update so I can use them. XP comes to me anyway and I'm bound to cap my merits out before the next patch, so there's no rush. These weaponskills aren't a waste of merits if you had no other way to spend them, which is the approach I'm taking with it. I'll cap out STR and Exenterator, then HP/MP, and then Upheaval/Ruinator. Then the next patch will hit. -
12-13-2011, 04:34 AMKoromaI sort of agree with you emp should be the strongest WS but i think relic weapons deserve better aftermath effects some of them really suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laxedrane
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12-13-2011, 07:32 AMAsymptotic
Meh.
Exenterator is still decent.
Turning a blind eye. -
12-13-2011, 07:35 AMSparthosI'd throw in the "I want to believe.jpg" here but if that was the case Byrth, SE has failed on marketing the product to its end-user and no such announcement supporting your argument has been made. Cat II could be another set of WS for all we know or tweaks to old weaponskill modifiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrth
Some of the weaponskills are already viable without further improvement and rival/surpass current weaponskills. Last Stand, Tachi: Shoha, Resolution, Shijin Spiral and Exenterator to exact so I see no reason why they'd hand out nerfs without explaining that a bright future lay in wait for the very same weaponskills.
It seems in yet another fit to 'balance' things, SE has completely destroyed the viability of 3 WS in particular (Ruinator, Realmrazer, Requiescat) and feel that old weaponskills should hold some seniority over the new. Of course, this point of view is the polar opposite of the base but what's new. -
12-13-2011, 08:19 AMCamate
Hey everyone, we’ve been looking over your feedback and wanted to give more details in the thought process behind our changes and some of the weapon skills themselves.
Axe Weapon Skill “Ruinator”
We will be lowering the attack modifier value and changing it so it’s half of the current value. The amount of damage dealt to high level enemies (those that have high defense) will be reduced, however, being able to deal damage easier than other axe weapon skills will remain unchanged.
We are making it so that the amount of damage will be around the same as Rampage if you have full accuracy and get 2-3 criticals. (This is when both of them are executed at 100 TP. There is of course more damage that can be dealt depending on gear and food.)
We are making adjustments so that you can pick Ruinator if you want to deal more consistent damage, or Rampage if you want to try and deal large amounts of damage.
Club Weapon Skill “Realm Razer”
The idea behind the adjustment is the same as Ruinator.
We are making it so that the amount of damage will be around the same as Hexa Strike if you have full accuracy and get 2-3 criticals. Again, this is for 100 TP and more damage can be dealt depending on gear and food.
We ultimately decided to adjust this weapon skill due to the fact that a non-critical hit modifier weapon skill would easily surpass the maximum damage dealt by Hexa Strike in stable conditions, and the result would cause a rapid increase in damage inflation.
Sword Weapon Skill “Requiescat”
Since Spirits Within’s damage varies based on your amount of HP and TP, we are adjusting Requiescat so that it will be easier to use than Spirits Within once you have 300 TP and also so that jobs that cannot boost their HP as high as paladins will be able to deal damage.
Also, Atonement is an easy to use weapon skill for paladins, which has a special feature, so the idea behind Requiescat was to give jobs other than paladin, specifically red mage and blue mage, a good weapon skill choice.
Hand-to-Hand Weapon Skill “Shijin Spiral”
There have been requests saying that this is weaker than Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite, so please make it stronger than both of those, but we cannot do this for the same reasons listed for our adjustments to Ruinator and Realm Razer.
We have also received some comments saying that the damage of Shijin Spiral is no different than Asuran Fists, or perhaps lower.
We took a look at the conditions of the players who performed weapon skill tests, but there are differences in attack power when executing each weapon skill, and because of this the result was that Asuran Fists and Victory Smite was higher.
Shijin Spiral is stronger than Asuran Fists and when boosting your stats using the appropriate equipment and food, the differences between Asuran Fists and Shijin Spiral will become more apparent, and the gap between Victory Smite and Shijin Spiral will also become smaller. -
12-13-2011, 08:21 AMKalilla
Camate, please send a message to them:
[SIZE="7"]8 YEARS[/SIZE]
Hexa Strike, to my knowledge, was added May 27th, 2003 along with Holy Breastplate/Divine Breastplate.
Black Halo was introduced Dec 16, 2003, but was never as powerful as Hexa Strike was. In 4 days it will have been 8 years since Black Halo was introduced.
Randgrith was introduced Feb. 26, 2004, and only limited to Mjollnir/Gullintani until the Sep. 9, 2010 update where SE introduced weapons that could use these weapon skills. This was again never as good as Hexa Strike.
Mystic Boon was introduced Sep. 9, 2008. This was the first new weapon skill in 5 years that was worth using. Even though it is very useful for replenishing MP, it is not a damage dealing weapon skill per se. So with that this doesn't count.
Flash Nova was introduced Jun. 22, 2010, and wasn't ever used...
Dagan was introduced Sep. 9, 2010, exactly two years after the previous mythic release. This weapon skill does NO damage, and is weaker than Mystic Boon until you start fighting more difficult monsters where you'll benefit from using Dagan instead to bypass the enemies defense. This is very, very situational and I almost never use it (and I have Gambanteinn).
Realmrazer will be introduced Dec. 14, 2011? From what you have said this will again be a weapon skill that isn't as strong as hexa, but unlike previous weapon skills in the past that provided additional benefits to the White Mage (aside from Black Halo) this does not give anything to the user. It is a damage dealing weapon skill that isn't as powerful as Hexa Strike, and was only created to give other jobs who always wanted Hexa Strike in the past a chance to use it. You're giving away the only thing we had and on top of that you made it weaker than Hexa Strike so we don't even benefit from using it. -
12-13-2011, 08:22 AMByrth
I'm riding the "I want to believe.jpg" pretty hard right now. I want to believe that it's possible this is all part of a larger plan. Like:
* Realmrazer : We don't know how they're changing it, but I'd bet they're dropping it to about a .6 fTP that's propagated through the hits. That way you end up with 4.8 fTP without gorget/belt or 6.4 fTP with gorget and belt instead of the current 8 base (including offhand in all cases). If you tossed another +.25 fTP on there from Group II, it'd be up to 7.6~8.4 fTP, aka back to current power. Tossing on another 25% Attack would make it a Hexa Strike replacement in pretty much every situation.
* Requiescat and Blade Shun : These would be able to use +25% Attack and +100 TP Bonus to neutralize their Attack penalty. It would make Blade: Shun a pretty respectable WS in some situations.
* Stardiver with fTP+.25 and Attack+25% would take all kinds of dumps over Drakesbane in many situations.
* Shoha would become a destroyer of worlds, and the SAM fanboy apocalypse that would ensue may shatter Vanadiel. I can't decide if that makes it more or less likely.
* Other already solid WSs like Upheaval and Exenterator would get stronger, but they wouldn't benefit from it as much as the WSs that are currently weaker because they don't replicate fTP or have an attack penalty.
The fact that it pushes the WSs towards balance with each other (apart from Shoha) is what encourages me. SE has always been pretty horrible at hiding their love of SAM, so I'm willing to write that one off. -
12-13-2011, 08:24 AMProthscarHere's the problem with this reasoning, sword already has a weaponskill that is superior to Spirits Within and Atonement: Sanguine Blade. It deals magical damage, bypassing the same physical defenses that Requiescat bypasses and does not face the Spirit Damage penalty that Spirits Within and Atonement have on any NM added in the last 3 years. It, however, does not have a massive attack reduction, making it functionally useless on anything that is high enough of a level that Requiescat would be superior to Sanguine Blade on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
On most any target, especially the ones that I feel the Dev team is trying to target with Requiescat, Chant du Cygne and even Vorpal Blade will be superior options to use. Just remove the attack penalty, it doesn't even have to get an attack bonus in return, just remove the attack penalty. An fTP increase based on TP (BOOST), an Accuracy boost based on TP (BOOST), anything except an attack penalty. -
12-13-2011, 08:46 AMGreatguardian
I want to know who's supplying the negative Shijin Spiral feedback and why they suck so much. All of the testing on the English forums pretty much point it to being comparable to VSmite if you don't have a Vereth and better than VSmite if you have a Spharai, and otherwise being an Asuran replacement for non-Smite users.
It's good, I guess, that they're not nerfing it. Bringing it up at all had me worried, since it was doing so well. I'm just sorta flabbergasted. I suppose I should praise the incompetence of the JPMNK forums for not realizing what a gem they had? Or perhaps I should praise their ingenuity. Reverse psychology, dawg.
Quickly! We need a bilingual to go post some phony Tachi: Shoha numbers in JP that have it losing to Tachi: Gekko so that they will simply respond to us by refusing to buff it instead of nerfing it. -
12-13-2011, 08:55 AMCreeloThey couldn't just fucking leave the solid Axe WS alone...Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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12-13-2011, 09:01 AMZannon
...Just pass on to "Enix..." delete the forums/test server because clearly they suck at listening to feedback, the game is clearly going downhill...the bottom is called Game over!
I'm done with this forum, only here till my friends quit later.
PS i miss when squaresoft made good games and Enix has done nothing but taint their name by pumping out 100s of trash games a year. -
12-13-2011, 09:01 AMKeinn
You guys think its a good idea to make people spend 100 merits to have a level 96 weapon skill that is less good or equal to what is already available to players since level 55-70. Really?
I am disappoint. -
12-13-2011, 09:02 AMAldersydeLet me get this straight. You want players to invest 1,000,000 xp for a weapon skill so they can deal mediocre, yet consistent, damage but if they want to deal "large amounts" of damage, they should continue to use a weapon skill that is eight years old and is available by natural skill at level 55? On what plane of reality does this make any sense whatsoever? You've given the thought process that went into nerfing these weapon skills but I want to hear the how the dev team justifies such a heavy cost in time for a weapon skill that is less effective at damage dealing than ones we already have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
If these weapon skills were based off natural skill, I would be cool with consistent damage and situational uses. When the cost is 10>15>20>25>30 merit progression, I'm not so forgiving. This is bullshit and quite frankly should be acquired with natural skill or scrapped altogether.
The utter contempt exhibited by these devs in their refusal to actually provide a suitable reward for time invested by players makes me feel stupid for giving SE money every month. Their fear of actually offering meaningful progression baffles me.
I need booze. -
12-13-2011, 09:02 AMZannon
Lololololololol
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Originally Posted by Sparthos