Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

hehe... you honor me Revan. Hey, we all riding in this handbasket towards Hell's Gate together it seems. I like it when we can use eachother's posts to back up points...shows we are trying to work together as a community to accomplish change.

Wow... what a concept... when did I get all happy unicorn, pretty rainbows, and fluffy bunnies.... gotta get back into cynic mode before I start farting flowers.

Anywho....for Mordanthos:
(gotta give credit to Tsukino for this tidbit of information as a post in another thread prompted me to look it up)

http://www.square-enix.com/na/accoun...ta/charge.html

Quote:

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The following payment methods can be selected for settling service fees in the Square Enix Account Management System.

Square Enix CrystaYou can pay for options by adding Crysta to your account and using your Crysta balance to pay service fees. To use Crysta, select it on the payment method selection screen.
*Crysta cannot be used as a payment method if you do not have enough in your account.
*Depending on your country of residence, Crysta may not be available.

Credit Card, Debit Card and ClickandBuy accountIn addition to Crysta, you can pay for some services with a credit card, debit card or use other options via ClickandBuy account.
ClickandBuy is an account-based billing system provided by ClickandBuy International Limited. An account can be acquired for free and used to add options and automatically pay service fees per service period. To use credit cards or debit cards as your payment method, select "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" from the payment method selection screen.
*It is possible to register multiple credit cards and debit cards to a single ClickandBuy account.

For information on service fees, please refer to the service's website.

Depending on your country of residence, Square Enix Crysta may not be available. If you live in such a location, please use "Credit Card/Debit Card via ClickandBuy account" to settle your service fees.
*Square Enix Crysta will become available in more countries as they are legally approved.
Adding Crysta is simple!

---

and therein lies the rub.... SE is not providing Crysta as a funding option in some regions, C&B is not able to process payments for some regions (or through some financial institutions). We've already discovered one regions completely blocked from both--in and around Australia.

Not really the best solution, but perhaps if they really want to utilize 3rd party billing methods, they could work out a deal with valve, utilizing steam as a release platform for the game was a great way to get the game into the hands of players, and as that allows for direct and secure CC use, it may be an option. Assuming they can do that from an infrastructure standpoint and assuming steam accepts/is offered globally in all nations. Just a thought that popped in my head.

Quote:

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SE is not providing Crysta as a funding option in some regions

---

I think it is the opposite. Some regions probably do not allow "fake currency". I wish no regions did, since the concept is just so silly. Pay 10 dollars, get 2000 pony points. These lets your buy things like horse toothpaste, grass and other useful horse items!

Dear SE,

Please accept this I.O.U in lieu of payment for the next however long until you can figure out this Massively Monstrous Overwhelmingly Ridiculous Payment Gaffe.

Thank you and I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. For further assistance in this matter please visit I.O.U. com

The Customer

I recently finished transferring my POL account to my SE account. While I was able to do it, I am not very happy about it. This is the feedback I sent to Square-Enix in their Support Center:

Quote:

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Dear Square-Enix,

I recently transferred my POL account to my SE account. I am disappointed to find that at least two of question and answer pairs in this forum thread are somewhat false:

Square Enix Account Transfer FAQ
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...t-Transfer-FAQ

I tried creating a ClickandBuy account with a credit card that does not have 3-D Secure. I was disappointed to find out that I couldn't create a ClickandBuy account without a 3-D Secure credit card; I was asked to provide a 3-D Secure credit card in order to create one. Given ClickandBuy's reputation, I do not feel comfortable giving them access to my bank account.

Thus, I went on to try to buy Crysta using Paypal via PlaySpan. I was disappointed yet again that I was forced to pay via instant transfer (from my bank account) via my Paypal account. I could not change my payment method to a credit card; the Paypal payment page would not let me do this.

I was under the impression that I would be able to use my credit card which does not have 3-D Secure on it. Sadly, it looks like the only way I would be able to use my credit card would be to buy UlimatePay gamer cards from retail stores.

I would suggest that you avoid posting false statements in your FAQ. Doing so makes you look bad and frustrates your customers.

---

Let me emphasize what has really annoyed me:

You cannot create a ClickandBuy account without a 3-D Secure credit card! (Unless you're willing to give them your bank account. No thanks!)

You cannot buy Crysta via Paypal without using the bank account attached to your Paypal account! PlaySpan insists on payment by bank account ONLY.

If you were able to buy Crysta online with a non-3-D Secure credit card, good for you. However, I was not able to do this, and I'm sure this has happened to plenty of other players as well.

Edit: Before this gets asked, yes I tried changing my payment method while I was on the Paypal website. I couldn't do it. Paypal would not let me switch to credit card, no matter how many times I clicked the link to "Change payment method." It would simply reload the payment page again.

So if you were able to change your payment method on Paypal's website, that's great for you! I wish I could do it... :(

hmmm.. that is odd indeed about the Paypal funding source. I wonder if you could create an account with PlaySpan and use your card through them, than transfer the points to SE for crysta. Kind of a round-about way of doing it...but if it works would save you from having to buy cards locally and paying local taxes.

<Just an idea, haven't transferred yet myself...holding out for SE to extend the JP's directpay option so I can continue using my credit card that has 3DS support, if they don't add it my account will just die off in August>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAIST

hmmm.. that is odd indeed about the Paypal funding source. I wonder if you could create an account with PlaySpan and use your card through them, than transfer the points to SE for crysta. Kind of a round-about way of doing it...but if it works would save you from having to buy cards locally and paying local taxes.

<Just an idea, haven't transferred yet myself...holding out for SE to extend the JP's directpay option so I can continue using my credit card that has 3DS support, if they don't add it my account will just die off in August>

---

It could be a security issue from Paypal's side for some reason. Or a requirement from PlaySpan. I'm trying to avoid creating new accounts because I already have Paypal and I don't really play any other online games at the moment. The only reason I'd create a PlaySpan account is to pay Crysta to SE. It seems like a waste of effort if I can just do it via Paypal. :/

yeah...they really screwed the proverbial pooch with this boneheaded move. Really over-complicating such a simple process.

May have stumbled on something about C&B. There might actually be a specific reason why some financial institutions are rejecting them, just haven't been able to get further details as it looks like the site I was in just hit a maintenance window while I was on it.

Click&Buy is stating they are authorised and regulated by the FSA UK:

Quote:

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ClickandBuy International Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom. (Register Number: 454127)

---

http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/...bereich=surfer

So out of curiosity I went to pull up their reports on them, but can't get any real info on them just yet as it looks like they've started stopping some webapps for maintenance or something while I was browsing. This particular one went offline just after I pulled it up, but the first page from my search was still in my cached pages so I was able to grab at least their basic info:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/register/index.shtml
searched on firm registration number: 454127

Quote:

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Basic details for:
454127 - ClickandBuy International Limited

Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 01/07/2011
Tied Agent:
Undertakes Insurance Mediation:
Registered under Money Laundering Regulations:
Address: Lincoln House
137/143 Hammersmith Road
London
W14 0QL

Phone:
Fax:
Email:
Website:
44 020 7605 0670
44 020 7751 1848
No e-mail supplied
www.clickandbuy.com

Notices:
Other information: The firm now has an e-money record. Please check the e-money link for more information.

---

Clicked the e-money link and that's when pages started coming up as unavailable. Guess I hit it right when they were taking things down.

Interesting that their basic info states they are not authorised. Which is a little concerning as they are still claiming on their site that they are authorised.

When you go to the FSA's detail on status entries, it simply states

Quote:

---

No longer authorised
A firm is no longer allowed to carry out certain types of business that we regulate.

---

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Register...us/index.shtml

Which makes me even more curious about just what they are no longer authorized to do, and why. Wish I could get at the reports to get more info.

I tried signing up for Click and Buy and my credit card flagged it for being an international transaction so then they sent me an email they needed full verification this is the information they requested.

Quote:

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Dear ,
Thank you for contacting ClickandBuy and for your message.
Please confirm your credit/debit card by filling out and signing the attached form.
Please send an email to service@us.clickandbuy.com with an attachment of the completed and signed for a scanned copy of a photo ID such as your passport or driver’s license and a copy of your recent credit/debit card statement.
Please note that we do not accept online statements for the verification of a payment method.
As soon as we have received the documents, we will confirm your payment method manually which offers increased spending limits and higher security for future purchases.


Please select answer or reply when responding to this email as opposed to sending a new email as this will aid us in resolving your issue with more efficiency.
Yours sincerely,
ClickandBuy Service Team

---

I AM NOT SENDING THEM A COPY OF MY PHOTO ID AND BANK STATEMENT TO PLAY FFXI!!

I think Square should look more closely at the companies they chose. I called them twice and both times they said they could not understand me and to send me an email. I called Square Enix support complaining about the problem he told me to just tell Click and Pay I want to cancel and to pay in Crysta -.-

Been here since 2004. Thanks for honoring my long-term contribution by flipping me the bird.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rahyiyi

I tried signing up for Click and Buy and my credit card flagged it for being an international transaction so then they sent me an email they needed full verification this is the information they requested.



I AM NOT SENDING THEM A COPY OF MY PHOTO ID AND BANK STATEMENT TO PLAY FFXI!!

I think Square should look more closely at the companies they chose. I called them twice and both times they said they could not understand me and to send me an email. I called Square Enix support complaining about the problem he told me to just tell Click and Pay I want to cancel and to pay in Crysta -.-

---

I'd be more concerned about them requesting you attach all that ID information ALONG with details on your bannk account through NORMAL EMAIL. Do those guys even KNOW anything about security???!!!!

That's another reason I'm wary of Clickandbuy... the amount of information they want from a person to set up a account. Even when I signed up for my bank account, didn't need as much information for that, as Clickandbuy want.

Quote:

---

That's another reason I'm wary of Clickandbuy... the amount of information they want from a person to set up a account. Even when I signed up for my bank account, didn't need as much information for that, as Clickandbuy want.

---

Sending all that information in such a non secure way is putting a lot of trust in the staff working at a company most of us don't even know much about. Who's to say they won't commit fraud with it, you can try trust Square did the proper checks but we all know they didn't....they just went with who gave them the cheapest deal to do their transactions for them.

I am a little confused. I linked my account already and I have my credit card to be used for payment, however; I never had to create a ClickandBuy account... at least not that I am aware of. I went to the ClickandBuy site and tried to login using any screen name or pw I would have used, but was unable to log in. So, I am assuming I never made an account.
Also, in the FAQ about the transfer it says...

Q: Can credit cards without personal authentication services (such as 3-D secure) be used?

A: Cards without personal authentication services, such as 3-D secure, can make payments using ClickandBuy International Ltd. and Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.

3-D secure will be required only for cards that support and have been set up with it.

My card DOES have 3-D secure. I remember being required to set it up by SE (never heard people complain about that). So, I am assuming that nothing has changed at all for me, but I guess I will see after the 1st, when they try to bill me.

P.S.
Sorry if this was mentioned, there are like 50+ pages to this...

Nvr, what region is your game? Because JP region is allowed to directly use Credit Cards. It's NA and EU accounts that are required to select one of the other two options.

I live in the U.S.

In the FAQ, it seems clear to me that ClickandBuy is used only for cards that do not have their own security. Have the people that are so upset about this and have a card such as VISA tried to transfer yet?

It doesn't give an option for NA or EU clients. As I said Nvr, what version are you using? If you are using a JP version of the game, you are allowed to select a credit card option. Everyone else is unable to do so, it's not an option.

Edit:

Also, C&B REQUIRES a 3D/VbV card be used with their services, so no, it's not an option for people who are unable to have a 3D/VbV card.

I live in the U.S., and I am using an NA copy. In my account details for my POL account it says,

Payment Method: Credit Card/Debit Card

I was never directed to ClickandBuy and I was never prompted to create a ClickandBuy account.

Oooo so maybe they've ninja-fixed it! When I checked at the start of this, only C&B and Crysta were options...

BRB

I tranfered my account within an hour of them posting the notice on POL.com.

*Edit*

Please keep in mind that I have 3-D Secure activated on my card, which is a free service some major credit cards offer to make transactions more secure. If fact, like I said, SE had started requiring people to activate it on new cards that were added to accounts like 2 years ago.

I'm sorry, but I just went again, it's still only C&B and Crysta, using a NA client.

Bummer, we'll see what happens then, they will charge me again tomorrow. So we will see if it goes through for me still, or if they deactivate my account until I make a clickandbuy account.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...-rpge/bleh.png

That's what I'm getting. Again, are you both using NA clients or JP clients?

Edit: Plus I have a 3D secured card and a VbV card. Using VbV for wife and 3D for me. So it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

I thought that the payment transfer option to Clickandbuy or Play Span w/e, was set to be put in place at the end of August. If so, then the current payment option via direct debit is still valid.

I just want to follow up with you guys to repair any confusion I may have cause.

I apparently did make a ClickandBuy account, but it seemed to have all be done within the SE account web page and used existing information from my SE account. I did not put in any new information. I must have really not been paying much attention, but it really was incredibly easy. I'll wait to complain about ClickandBuy when/if I ever have a problem with them.

Proof that ClickandBuy is not doing what SE said they were supposed to be doing. We were not supposed to have to pay any international fees to use that service, but when I tried setting it up a few days ago, here is what happened to my bank account:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...adfc58027e.jpg

This was using my US Debit card, since I was unable to register my Korean credit card at all. I cannot use my US card to pay for FFXI because I am unable to send enough money to the US to cover my subscription for more than a couple months. I cancelled the ClickandBuy service that same day, before these charges had even been made, here is the email they sent me when I cancelled:

Quote:

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Dear Ms. Park,

Thank you for contacting ClickandBuy and for your message.

Our records do not reflect the charges mentioned in your message. This indicates that you are referring to pre-authorised charges or reservations, which either occurs when you attempt to make a purchase that fails or when we verify the validity of your payment method during the registration process.

This transaction is purely a reservation and no funds are taken from your account; they are merely reserved by your payment provider. After approximately five working days, the reserved charges are automatically released.

In the event that the reserve does not get released please contact your credit card issuer to speed up the process.

Please select answer or reply when responding to this email as opposed to sending a new email as this will aid us in resolving your issue with more efficiency.

Yours sincerely,

ClickandBuy Service Team

---

Those were not precharges, they were actual charges and I got charged fees for them. Even if the charges themselves are reversed in a few days, I highly doubt I will be getting those fees back. Sure it's only a few cents, but I should not have incurred those charges at at all...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maacha

Proof that ClickandBuy is not doing what SE said they were supposed to be doing. We were not supposed to have to pay any international fees to use that service, but when I tried setting it up a few days ago, here is what happened to my bank account:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...adfc58027e.jpg

This was using my US Debit card, since I was unable to register my Korean credit card at all. I cannot use my US card to pay for FFXI because I am unable to send enough money to the US to cover my subscription for more than a couple months. I cancelled the ClickandBuy service that same day, before these charges had even been made, here is the email they sent me when I cancelled:



Those were not precharges, they were actual charges and I got charged fees for them. Even if the charges themselves are reversed in a few days, I highly doubt I will be getting those fees back. Sure it's only a few cents, but I should not have incurred those charges at at all...

---

I just checked my statement from BoA, seems they did the same to me as well....so either SE lied or clickandbuy is skimming off the top

After 7 years of playing. I am canceling 1 of my 3 accounts as soon as maintenance is over and most likely canceling the other 2 at the end of August. I see no reason for being forced to buy Crysta. I'm an adult. I pay the exact amounts due for my bills. I don't pay to the nearest dollar or some other amount. I'm not buying crysta. After all the Click and Buy posts I don't trust them either.

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nvr

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

---

Other people who have posted about the ClickandBuy verifications back when FFXIV was beginning said they did not get refunds, they got credits to their "emoney" accounts. As of right now, they are actual charges, they are not marked as "pending" by my bank. Only time will tell if they are refunded or not, but those fees from my bank are likely permanent. Again, it's only a few cents, but after being told we would not have any fees...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oddwaffle

I think the silent majority is waiting for SE respond which probably won't happen until the the end of August when their face turn white and start pointing fingers after looking at the monthly subscription figures.

---

There won't be a shitstorm on these forums after Aug 31st when people discover the changes, because all those people will be locked out of the game and thus locked out of the forums... The shitstorm will happen on BG, Allah, FFXIAH etc. Sure hope SE still reads those...

Quote:

---

Again, it's only a few cents, but after being told we would not have any fees...

---

I hate bumming you out, but your statement shows $3.49 in charges.

it starts with -1.62, so you account started at 650.84 before the first charge, and you account ends with a 647.35 balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nvr

I hate bumming you out, but your statement shows $3.49 in charges.

it starts with -1.62, so you account started at 650.84 before the first charge, and you account ends with a 647.35 balance.

---

I meant a few cents by the .05 international service fee charged by my bank after the C&B transaction, which I highly doubt I will have refunded even if C&B does refund those 2 test charges they made.

They are (or at least were not so long in the past) 're-funded' to your ClakandBuy account so technically they are not charges but... yeah.

In the politest possible way . What a bag of wank... Why change it after 9 sodding years ? Yes FFXIV will eventually be billed this way but why can't you just leave use with PoL? Why change it ? Is it broken? Does it need fixing? NO! So why on earth do you need to change the whole paying system. I refuse to use click and buy as they are a big bag of crap . Paypal i could understand but this shoddy piece of shite? Is Squeenix on CRACK ?

To be fair, billing on POL wasn't perfect. You'd constantly hear about people being double-billed on some months, and if you resubscribed later in the month, you could essentially be paying $13 for five days of play. It's good that they wanted to change it.

However, this new system is not an improvement. People are quite literally getting locked out of playing over this. Many people will no longer have to worry about double billing, but many won't have to worry about that at all if they can't even buy Crysta or go through C&B due to their countries rejecting such offers. All this proves is that Square-Enix has a lot to learn about billing its customers, even nine years later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nvr

Those are reservations, it's not actually charging you, or so they say.

---

Last I checked reservations don't show up on paper bank statements

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lollerblades

In the politest possible way . What a bag of wank... Why change it after 9 sodding years ? Yes FFXIV will eventually be billed this way but why can't you just leave use with PoL? Why change it ? Is it broken? Does it need fixing? NO! So why on earth do you need to change the whole paying system. I refuse to use click and buy as they are a big bag of crap . Paypal i could understand but this shoddy piece of shite? Is Squeenix on CRACK ?

---

To answer the 1st question: Why did SE change their payment method?

I think the answer is fairly obvious of why SE changed from POL to SquareEnix account management. They want to cut down costs and responsibilities of doing their whole payment/credit card thing. The whole charge back, angry customers, fraudulent cards, RMT, payment servers, international payments, currency conversion...etc those costs SE money to operate and SE is smart enough to know that it's not really good at those aspects. Shifting the billing department to a 3rd party firm is a fairly common practice for MMO companies as the 3rd party firms are usually experienced and efficient for these tasks.

SE account management does 2 things POL set out to do (and failed). #1 It collects all the online player base of SE for current and future games into 1 single database. #2 Acts as a platform to connects SE with its customers without the need to tie any games to act as an intermediary (such as FFXI player base connects with SE through POL while FFXIV player base is not) so SE can promote its game much easier and player can streamline several games with just 1 single account instead of several.

If you think about it, you will notice it's much easier to sell your used items when ebay acts as your seller and paypal acts as your billing agent. Your only concern would be to present the stuff, ship them and wait for money to roll in. You might get a few hick-cups here and there but it's much better than opening your own website and do everything on your own. SE is in the same position as you are. They are a game company that is used to make games and sell them in stores through a distribution agent. They aren't very good with the whole subscriptions and international currency/markets/laws/customers.

Now the 2nd and more important question you wanted to ask was: Why did SE select C&B for the international market?

For this question, your answer is as good as mine. I think C&B just sent a better sales person on SE door with a better offering on costs saving for SE. Or maybe SE was just throwing the lottery and C&B name showed up on a very big piece of paper and SE is clueless about NA/EU market business. Or perhaps Paypal has certain restrictions that SE doesn't like or they just couldn't work out the fine prints in their deals. Or perhaps SE is so bad that nobody wanted to deal with them and only C&B is the willing firm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maacha

There won't be a shitstorm on these forums after Aug 31st when people discover the changes, because all those people will be locked out of the game and thus locked out of the forums... The shitstorm will happen on BG, Allah, FFXIAH etc. Sure hope SE still reads those...

---

Honest question: Do you immediately get locked out of these forums if your account goes inactive due to nonpayment?

I ask because last month when SEs biller goofed and locked out my character, I was still able to post on these boards.