Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

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Originally Posted by Olor

Dude, if BST was 0.1% behind SAM, you'd get no arguments from me that things were close enough. Heck, like I've said over and over - if a fully buffed average BST could do 90% of the damage of a fully buffed average SAM in the same party - I'd be willing to call that close enough. That's a way bigger gap than what you're suggesting is the case here - come on, we all know that the gap is way higher - probably more like 70% at best for a fantastic BST versus an ok SAM.

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

I'm not asking for the game to be XIV. I like this game better, but I feel less and less compelled to log in when the only thing I ever get to do in groups is play bard (love bard but it's nice to switch it up). That I feel "lucky" that one of my jobs is even in demand at all when I have several, is problematic.

Increasing the strength of jobs that currently suck will just make non cookie cutter set ups more viable. I fail to see how that reduces variety.

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If you think the reason why you're stuck on BRD is because your jobs are too weak, then you're delusional. Even if they buff BST THF BLU to 110% of SAM, you'd still have to play BRD if you have BRD just because....someone needs to play BRD and it's usually ppl with BRD leveled.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

So the time, effort, and love (for lack of a better word) people put into a job shouldn't matter? Everything should be determined by what the current content favors? A job is just another piece of gear to be swapped in and out at the press of a button? As hardcore as you are about specialization this is the last stance I expected you to take.

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Oh and another FYI, if you think I'm advocating PUP BST remain useless then you didn't read what I wrote. I said PUP BST needs to be useful, but not in a way to make them getting the same advantage as DD.

BLU is a perfect examples of how a job that's way behind SAM in terms of dmg but still useful. Saying more dmg = more balance is one of the laziest way to balance jobs.

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Originally Posted by Vinedrai

The main problem is, even if weaker DDs are pumped to close the gap, people would still bring what is found to be the most failproof. It won't magically turn your bst or pup or w/e into a desired DD.

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I am under no illusions that it would change shouts - but if the gap was closed I could at least play with some friends.

I would personally love to see other jobs on par with damage as the current "awesome" dds.
Be it a combination of pet/player dmg or spell dmg, w/e from point 0 to 100% that 100% should be relatively the same across the board as long as the player are all geared accordingly. Which is hard to see. But if you are a all 119 gear'd PUP, BST, BLU, DNC, w/e you damage output should be just as good as a 119 DD. That is balance. Now it might take a little different mechanics to get that dmg but it should be the same output in the end. Don't get me wrong I love my little SAM fudoing all the things for 4k~16k dmg but I also want to see big numbers from other jobs that are DD as well, and yes BST, PUP are suppose to be DDs.

I think when it comes down to it, many of us would just like to see a way to do more things within our linkshells/friends without shouting for 3 hours or waiting for the uber-elites who never log on anymore. It's really frustrating to have events cancelled or never get started because the ones who are online (and not afk out of boredom) are not the perfect set-up.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

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I wanna say you took the 0.1% comment entirely too literally and shoved it so far up contexts ass that context cant even find it anymore. It made me dizzy.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about jobs sucking, never used the word "This job sucks", I'm saying not every job is in as terrible a position as some people think. BST used to have its place, as a solo/duo thing, and it can still do events like AA's just fine (hint hint did you even try to read the part where i said BST/SMN party beat AA difficults? I've even beaten the ToAU Hard mode Wivre-rider dude on Difficult with Pet jobs only)

Understandably, you probably want to do more damage? Why? If you don't do as much as SAM go away is the communities look still, and if you do end up doing as much as SAM, then what? You have an OP DD Job with a pet who can still do damage weakened by sending the pet in and be completely safe from AoEs, unlike any other DD job. BST, and all pet jobs, are tough to balance because as SE says they have disposable minions, giving them too much power means other DD jobs wont be wanted, too little and well... I think you know what happens there, you're in it.

Still I'd argue If you yourself were put together with a SAM who received good buffs, and you yourself received the same buffs + COR Pet rolls, I bet you+Your pet would come closer to that SAM than you realize. And no, I'm not talking a Mythic SAM as thats an unfair comparison unless you yourself were a Mythic wielder. Its how we play the jobs that makes them gimp, Buffs are aimed toward player DD, but there are pet DD buffs.

Still, if you've read this far before breaking apart my post and throwing it back at me with context as far away from the blast radius as possible, I want to say... I agree BST is in a shit position. It used to have Solo/Duo even up to Abyssea era... It used to have Dynamis but now with I.lv gear THF is better... BST has no godly place in FFXI right now outside of "Pet Burns", and don't get me wrong, you can do Pet Burns on most events, but thats not enough...

Anyway, I already admitted SAM is far and above way to overpowered right now... I just don't see how you can fix that without a huge nerf to SAM or a huge buff to other DDs... and If we buff other DD's we're just inching ever closer to "Casual Fantasy XI: Come cap gear in 3 days"

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Originally Posted by Afania

Oh and another FYI, if you think I'm advocating PUP BST remain useless then you didn't read what I wrote. I said PUP BST needs to be useful, but not in a way to make them getting the same advantage as DD.

BLU is a perfect examples of how a job that's way behind SAM in terms of dmg but still useful. Saying more dmg = more balance is one of the laziest way to balance jobs.

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All people ever want is "I WANNA DEW MORE DAMAGES"....

This question is to you Olor, For BST, how do you think you can make it more useful? Aside from "MOAR NUMBERS"

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Originally Posted by Rubicant82

I would personally love to see other jobs on par with damage as the current "awesome" dds.
Be it a combination of pet/player dmg or spell dmg, w/e from point 0 to 100% that 100% should be relatively the same across the board as long as the player are all geared accordingly. Which is hard to see. But if you are a all 119 gear'd PUP, BST, BLU, DNC, w/e you damage output should be just as good as a 119 DD. That is balance. Now it might take a little different mechanics to get that dmg but it should be the same output in the end. Don't get me wrong I love my little SAM fudoing all the things for 4k~16k dmg but I also want to see big numbers from other jobs that are DD as well, and yes BST, PUP are suppose to be DDs.

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This isn't balance, it's bad design.

A hybrid job(DNC) that can do 13% def down, erase/cure, stun and 10% JA haste do same dmg as another DD that can't do any of those?

A hybrid job(BLU) that can erasega, stun, terror, def down, AoE def 100% buff, high DEF and MDB, assist cure and AoE sleep do the same another DD that can't do any of those?

It's just broken but nothing else.

Hybrid jobs supposed to do less dmg than jobs that don't have other abilities except dmg. Hybrid jobs shouldn't outparse jobs like MNK and SAM period.

If BLU can do same lv of dmg as SAM no one would invite a SAM ever, why invite a SAM over BLU, which can do same dmg as SAM AND everything listed above?

It'd just create another wave of QQ useless jobs and make BLU OP, that is not balance.

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

I think when it comes down to it, many of us would just like to see a way to do more things within our linkshells/friends without shouting for 3 hours or waiting for the uber-elites who never log on anymore. It's really frustrating to have events cancelled or never get started because the ones who are online (and not afk out of boredom) are not the perfect set-up.

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This is an issue irrelevant to DDs. Everytime when ppl are /shouting for 3hr, they're /shouting for BRD WHM GEO.

It's also funny to see ppl want MORE DD jobs in this game when DD spot are extremely competitive.

Karbuncle: I really don't see how you can make BST more useful without MOAR NUMBERS. It's a DD. It can fill no other role. I asked before for it to be made into a tank - tanks are in a bad place but at least if BST was tailored to be a tank (with proper shields and proper shield skill, more ability to heal pet, more ability to shed hate onto pet or pull hate from pet, put hate from party members on pet etc) it could potentially have a party role other than "LOLPETBURN"

The master needs to be made stronger regardless. It's the only way to avoid making pets overpowered. They also need to give pets real buffs - your example with COR buffs is laughable because you ignore that no real (non pet burn) party is ever gonna choose buffing small portion of one job's DD output (pet buff) over boosting every DD's output. That's asinine. It was a stupid idea to make those buffs the way they are - it's stupid to keep them that way.

If, for some reason, I had to say what would do the most for BST outside of MOAR numbers - it would be allowing pet to get all party buffs like any other party member, vastly reducing the damage it takes from AOEs when not the target of the boss, and significantly boosting its resistance to status ailments. Giving us a JA which would allow us to remove status ailments from our pets without the reward timer being used would also help.

Lets play the number game! Here is the how the game work we take a Number ... Lets say 700,000. This being the Damage expected from every DD in a Delve (no these are not real numbers it is just an visual thing).
So For this Delve we will have 4 DDs; SAM, PUP, BST, and Blu, with a SCH & Bard for support.

SAM - Deals 700,000 using ws/normal hits
PUP - The player should deal at least 350,000 and their puppet (we'll say they use Sharpshot) the other 350,000 equaling 700,000
BST - Same as Pup but maybe more a 450,000/250,000 split or 250/450 depending on the pet they use
BLU - WS/Spells etc 700,000 total
SCH - we will say at least 150,000 in nukes while healing everyone
BRD - oh! Sings song, maybe melee a little (because it is an awesome battle bard) 150k in dmg but great support.


That would be a balance. Again all things being equal (gear level) the numbers at the end should be the very close to each other. The path to get to said numbers will be different for every job. I.E. SAM is going to be spamming Weaponskill & making skill chains (that is what they do), PUP is going to be working with their puppet to do the dmg, BST has their critter to help in conjunction with their not own melee dmg, Blue well we all know what they do SPIKE DMG from spells + Skillchains, etc... etc... etc...

Now that is a "perfect" scenario the game is going to be FAR from that as you are going to have your SAM most likely geared to the teeth with good gear as they are almost always in demand, and the other jobs not geared so much. Most likely will not ever see that actual part set up etc... But the point of this game is to have fun. People need to "for-science" more and learn how to make their set ups work. I have no doubt in my mind that with some 109 reforged pieces, augmented wkr gear and the such that delve could be beaten (at least the first 3) by almost any set up as long as the acc is high enough for some of the harder NMs (Bee ... screw that Bee!!).