Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

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06-20-2011, 12:44 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

What? COR can do all 3 jobs at once and still be better than smn :x
Edit: What i mean is wildfire, give melee rolls, give mages rolls, and lose no dmg cause wildfire is sick.

You just said /whm or /rdm are limited how are you supporting a party without them.
06-20-2011, 12:45 PM
Aurara

COR buffs are how the cor supports the party, lol.
06-20-2011, 12:46 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas

You called my damage poor and you do 1/4th my damage. What word means "sucks significantly more than poor?"

Your Damage is poor..... compared to an actual DD. Our damage is good considering it's hate/TP free and is only 1/3 of what I bring to a party.
06-20-2011, 12:48 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

COR buffs are how the cor supports the party, lol.

buffs are party of support role heals -nas etc. are included its why I sub a mage job it doesn't affect my pets DMG and it boosts my usefulness to the party.
06-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Bumbeen

smn sux bro can't replace cor or brd buffs
06-20-2011, 12:50 PM
Aurara

The buffs a COR can give to melee are still a lot better(in most cases, im not saying EA is bad, its amazing) that what smn can give for the most part. And if you REALLY wanted to get down to the nitty gritty, cor/rdm with armageddon will outdo a smn for the most part :x
06-20-2011, 12:54 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

The buffs a COR can give to melee are still a lot better(in most cases, im not saying EA is bad, its amazing) that what smn can give for the most part. And if you REALLY wanted to get down to the nitty gritty, cor/rdm with armageddon will outdo a smn for the most part :x

possibly depends on how much time he has to spend shooting if you spend alot of your time shooting to keep up DD the support might not be worth it
06-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Aurara

It's really not hard to shoot between rolls, lol.
06-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumbeen

smn sux bro can't replace cor or brd buffs

1) SMN doesn't suck if you know how to play it

2) not trying to replace them merely saying that SMN is a more than adequate replacement if applied properly
06-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Dallas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razushu

Your Damage is poor..... compared to an actual DD. Our damage is good considering it's hate/TP free and is only 1/3 of what I bring to a party.

Then ignore your damage, or "pathetic" comes to mind.
06-20-2011, 01:00 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

It's really not hard to shoot between rolls, lol.

sorry thought I was clearer the way I play SMN can be broken up into 3 parts

DD = 70 or 75 rage spam

buffs= wards and such that improve the overall performance of the group

Support= random things that pop up, back up heals,helping with -nas/erase etc.

I know taken on their own none of these 3 can compare to a specialist in the field but taken together make me more than worth my spot
06-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas

Then ignore your damage, or "pathetic" comes to mind.

Dude SMN damage only looks patehtic when you say "I'm a DD". when taken as part of the whole it's good enough.
06-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Sparthos

COR can buff more potently, deal damage equal or exceeding SMN (at distance or in close quarters) and heal on near equal terms with SMN using /WHM. If you want to get technical, a COR/WHM can still do damage while using -na, -ga2 and haste.

The main boon SMN has lay in dealing ranged damage for little to no hate and it also happens to dabble in the same area COR excels in - versatility. However the second that hate isn't a significant issue, the floor drops out on SMN. Those Blood Pact timers are a cinder block around the feet of the class.

SMN is the go-to class for hateless damage and that is where COR will lose. You will eventually snatch hate and you will die for it much like any other DD. The support rolls however are enough to secure a slot in any party, the QD augments w/boots though situational is another potent tool in a Corsair's arsenal and Wildfire coupled with /ra can easily broadside a SMN in DD capability.
06-20-2011, 01:03 PM
Dallas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razushu

taken together make me more than worth my spot

That's not your call. Wait for our BG field rep to return.
06-20-2011, 01:12 PM
Aurara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razushu

sorry thought I was clearer the way I play SMN can be broken up into 3 parts

DD = 70 or 75 rage spam

buffs= wards and such that improve the overall performance of the group

Support= random things that pop up, back up heals,helping with -nas/erase etc.

I know taken on their own none of these 3 can compare to a specialist in the field but taken together make me more than worth my spot

If i have to sub whm, i dont really focus on DDing on cor, because usually my dmg will be crap. When i did cor/whm to odin, i did DD rolls, mage rolls, and curaga/na'd people. When i can actually "DD" on cor, i can keep up melee rolls, mage rolls, while DDing, spamming QD w/e its up and wildfire'ing w/e i have tp.
06-20-2011, 01:14 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparthos

COR can buff more potently, deal damage equal or exceeding SMN (at distance or in close quarters) and heal on near equal terms with SMN using /WHM. If you want to get technical, a COR/WHM can still do damage while using -na, -ga2 and haste.

The main boon SMN has lay in dealing ranged damage for little to no hate and it also happens to dabble in the same area COR excels in - versatility. However the second that hate isn't a significant issue, the floor drops out on SMN. Those Blood Pact timers are a cinder block around the feet of the class.

SMN is the go-to class for hateless damage and that is where COR will lose. You will eventually snatch hate and you will die for it much like any other DD. The support rolls however are enough to secure a slot in any party, the QD augments w/boots though situational is another potent tool in a Corsair's arsenal and Wildfire coupled with /ra can easily broadside a SMN in DD capability.

I agree with you COR DD/buff/support will more than likely outperform SMN in the same regard. where COR will be more to the DD end of the 3 SMN will find itself closer to the support end. the difference is there I'm not denying it but with a good SMN the differnce is small enough that we'll have no problem filling the role. Hateless damage is a boon also if you find yourself needing to spam heals, which I can kinda do with abandon when the need arises because I have close to no hate.

BP timer is killing us no doubt(theres not a SMN out there who isn't praying for it to be lowered).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

If i have to sub whm, i dont really focus on DDing on cor, because usually my dmg will be crap. When i did cor/whm to odin, i did DD rolls, mage rolls, and curaga/na'd people. When i can actually "DD" on cor, i can keep up melee rolls, mage rolls, while DDing, spamming QD w/e its up and wildfire'ing w/e i have tp.

Like I thought COR will pick 2 roles and outperform SMN on them whereas SMN doesn't have to pick and can perform all 3 well-but not as well- as a dedicated counterpart
06-20-2011, 01:14 PM
Aurara

put cors with smn, everyone wins! Did it with khim and it was nice :3
06-20-2011, 01:15 PM
Dallas

It looks like our "BG mathies" have taken a siesta. Until they return, COR is not allowed to shoot off damage numbers. Pun intended.
06-20-2011, 01:19 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

put cors with smn, everyone wins! Did it with khim and it was nice :3

I had a friend with COR leveled, but I never saw him use it kept saying he wanted to head out with me and a few more SMNs to try his pet rolls on NMs it never happened /sigh. lol
06-20-2011, 01:19 PM
Leonlionheart

You don't need to do the math to know that neither COR nor SMN are very good DD.
06-20-2011, 01:20 PM
Aurara

Pet rolls were super nice on khim, like, 1k+ PC or SD on khim :3
06-20-2011, 01:23 PM
Sparthos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

You don't need to do the math to know that neither COR nor SMN are very good DD.

Only SMN and COR were being compared?
06-20-2011, 01:29 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

Pet rolls were super nice on khim, like, 1k+ PC or SD on khim :3

nice If my friend ever resubscribes I'm gonna make him go COR and follow a group of SMN round and see what we can do lol
06-20-2011, 01:30 PM
Aurara

Also, COR is a great DD for Voidwatch, so is SMN :x
06-20-2011, 01:32 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

Also, COR is a great DD for Voidwatch, so is SMN :x

and if COR and SMN not DDing they bring buffs/support to the party no one except Dallas was saying either are just DDs. Except they can both perform well as ranged DDs.
06-20-2011, 01:34 PM
Aurara

Was in response to leon's post
06-20-2011, 01:37 PM
Leonlionheart

Not saying COR doesn't bring anything to the table, but damage is not high up there on the list.

@voidwatch: 4 useful items from voidwatch: +3 march harp, QA+2% VIT+4 neck, possibly HQ2 eagle body/head for NIN. Otherwise its a totally useless event at this point, although depending on the future it could be great, but now its just trash.
06-20-2011, 01:37 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurara

Was in response to leon's post

was agreeing with you in response to leon's post
06-20-2011, 01:38 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Not saying COR doesn't bring anything to the table, but damage is not high up there on the list.

That's why the have buffs
06-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Aurara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Not saying COR doesn't bring anything to the table, but damage is not high up there on the list.

@voidwatch: 4 useful items from voidwatch: +3 march harp, QA+2% VIT+4 neck, possibly HQ2 eagle body/head for NIN. Otherwise its a totally useless event at this point, although depending on the future it could be great, but now its just trash.

Oh, should have clarified. I also agree on the voidwatch comment :x i only want harp lol.
06-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Leonlionheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razushu

That's why the have buffs

Now you're just replying for the sake of argument, because I stated this.

COR are good if they can get your 2 handers x hit down, or can give 4tp/tick so DDs can come in to WS more often depending on the fight. Also have good defensive abilities depending on the fight.

COR is just highly situational in comparison to BRD, which is ALWAYS wanted.
06-20-2011, 01:42 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Now you're just replying for the sake of argument, because I stated this.

COR are good if they can get your 2 handers x hit down, or can give 4tp/tick so DDs can come in to WS more often depending on the fight. Also have good defensive abilities depending on the fight.

COR is just highly situational in comparison to BRD, which is ALWAYS wanted.

My apologies I wrote this before you clarified.

Also I'm talking about SMN(in the same role) Aurara is the COR we just banded together there lol

To clarify I'm not saying SMN> than BRD or COR just that if properly applied can perform well enough to earn it's place in the absence of or in conjunction with either of these 2
06-20-2011, 01:43 PM
Aurara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

COR is just highly situational in comparison to BRD, which is ALWAYS wanted.

I wont argue this, because it's true :x
06-20-2011, 01:49 PM
Leonlionheart

SMN has some things they can bring to the table although it's even more situational than COR.

Earthen Armor (Migawari/Scherzo effect) is great for certain fights.
Diablos buffing in a BLM only party is very decent too.
If a SMN is in the DD party, assuming the DD have crit WS's Ramuh's favor is potent enough to use and Ramuhs stun is amazing, though almost next to impossible to time.

However you just can't work your parties around a SMN, because what the SMN is giving isn't enough compared to COR or BRD or other spots.
06-20-2011, 01:56 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

SMN has some things they can bring to the table although it's even more situational than COR.

Earthen Armor (Migawari/Scherzo effect) is great for certain fights.
Diablos buffing in a BLM only party is very decent too.
If a SMN is in the DD party, assuming the DD have crit WS's Ramuh's favor is potent enough to use and Ramuhs stun is amazing, though almost next to impossible to time.

However you just can't work your parties around a SMN, because what the SMN is giving isn't enough compared to COR or BRD or other spots.

Choatic Strike only works on high tier -agas and AMs but still and extra stun is always nice.

I've never had a part built around me before, but I do well enough that no one complains they only have a SMN to buff them, I still add damage and support job utility as well. I'm fully aware and will always admit openly to my jobs failings, we are second to COR and BRD but we can perform well enough to replace or supplement one should one not be available.
06-20-2011, 01:57 PM
Sparthos

Why pick between COR and BRD when you can bring both. At any remotely difficult NM you'll want assemble a BRD/COR pt anyway.

Voidwatch is the future of this game (go look at SEs chart) so SMN and COR will be seeing more widespread use if SE intends to stick to the script. Both jobs happen to succeed under the conditions posed in Voidwatch.
06-20-2011, 01:57 PM
Aurara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razushu

I've never had a part built around me before, but I do well enough that no one complains they only have a SMN to buff them, I still add damage and support job utility as well. I'm fully aware and will always admit openly to my jobs failings, we are second to COR and BRD but we can perform well enough to replace or supplement one should one not be available.

At least somebody gets it.
06-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Sparthos

Where's Dallas exclaiming the only thing he replaces are Ukons.
06-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparthos

Where's Dallas exclaiming the only thing he replaces are Ukons.

He's hiding out in the SMN forums trying to tell me I fail at SMN
06-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Razushu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparthos

Why pick between COR and BRD when you can bring both. At any remotely difficult NM you'll want assemble a BRD/COR pt anyway.

Voidwatch is the future of this game (go look at SEs chart) so SMN and COR will be seeing more widespread use if SE intends to stick to the script. Both jobs happen to succeed under the conditions posed in Voidwatch.

I guess I have to start doing Voidwatch then lol

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