ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Annhilator is better than Armageddon outside abyssea.

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Armageddon was clearly designed with CORs in mind and CORs can't use Annihilator.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope it's because it's a pain-long to farm a level 90 with only a dual boxed mule, which is also the reason all those dual boxer didn't get the level 85 before christmas nor the level 80 before september :). If not why do you explain so few farmed the level 85, because as you said, it is game breaking, so that's a great reason (more that a few point of DMG).

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You're the one that was on AH saying: "Getting 90 vere is a matter of a few hours (with friends)" Now you are sitting here saying its BS, lol.

Whats even more funny Gimpchan, is you didnt even start to work on Vere till 90 came out so really, you have no idea about anything.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Personally, I kind of wonder what Sama has to say, but it can't be very important since he's to much of a coward to actually leave his comments up for more then 2 minutes, did anyone actually see either them on the previous page?

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wish12oz you have too much time checking this forum like every millisecond

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Originally Posted by Sama

wish12oz you have too much time checking this forum like every millisecond

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That obviously cant be true since I missed both of your posts, but ya, I'm not doing anything right now but hitting refresh on 8-9 threads and talking to people on FFXI.
EDIT:: Im also watching a documentary about Israel.

ALSO
Gimpchan!
You didnt do abyssea when it came out but I'll let you in on a secret, for about 75% of the 85 cap, the mobs required for emp KI pops, like gukumatz, tunga, heqet, etc were all 2 hour repops, not 10 minutes. Empyreans didn't become 'easy' until it got switched to 10 minutes, and I would say they didn't even become common until those items came in gold chests. And besides that, as previously said, you didn't even start on your h2h until the 90 cap, so sitting here preaching about how other people didn't do stuff is just making yourself look dumb.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Don't give lessons when you don't apply said rules to yourself. My guess is that you had a level 90 job way before that so we are back to : why so much time for an empyreal ? If we follow your posts, getting an empy is a matter of 3 days. Yet it took you at least 6 months to get one done. Most normal players will take several week to get one even those that pretend otherwise (like you) because of the prerequisites for one and because Chloris is too much investement to be able to pop more than a few per day. The rest of the path is all about showing your skillz at outclaiming insomniac JPs or forcing your LS mates to hold dragua pops for you. Noone will do all this in 3 days.

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Guessing this post pretty much explains why you have to dual-box...

I never said it took me 3 days to make one start to finish. I didn't even start an emp. weapon trial until shortly before the servers came back up. Check this out since you like FFXI's equipment history:

I got Simian Fists 3/29/11.
I got Mantis 3 days later 4/2/11.
I got Lv.80 Verethagna 5/16/11.

What you don't see is when I got Lv.85 Verethagna or if I even have the Lv.90 ones. Want to know when I got to the Chloris stage? Probably about a week after I got Mantis. Want to know when I started on Chloris buds? About a week and a half before I got Lv.80. The reason it took a week and a half is there were 5 other people in my group wanting buds. So yes, in a week and a half, we got 300 chloris buds, finishing 6 Lv.80 weapons. A team of 7-8 people did that.

Nevermind the update for the gold chests didn't happen until June...nope, nevermind that at all. We camped Chukwa, screwed around with that skull, etc until we finished all 6 of those weapons. And while we were doing that? Another team of 7 was over in Plateau spamming Briareus and Carabosse.

What you're assuming is that I spent every waking second of my game time camping NMs and the like. No, I'd go camp an hour or so at a time, usually get 2 kills in, then move on to do something else with linkshell mates. Just because some had NMs that didn't spawn for 16 hours doesn't mean there weren't others who didn't spend more than 2 hours for the entire trial camping, but oh well, that's the breaks. I'm sure it'll happen to me at some point too, but you know what's going to happen if I don't see an NM more than a couple hours after the ToD? I'm going to go do something else instead of wasting my time camping it. The VNM stages? Knocked out in about 2 hours total. Our linkshell is made up of "normal" players. The type that usually only log in during the evenings for events we schedule.

Just because you don't have any friends and have to dual-box everything you get, doesn't mean you get to blab in SE's ears about how unfriendly it is to you. The game was built around groups of people doing things, not around your inability to cooperate/share with others.

Sharing is overrated

I'm just wondering how and why are empyreans being upgraded? Shinryu kills x50 or something lol? As for the why part, what's the point? They're already going to surpass any regular weapon on the way to 99 just because of their WS. They're already stupid easy to get, GF and I have gotten 4 90 versions between the two of us. I just don't get why empyreans are supposed to be the top-notch weapons in the game. It's a joke really.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

You're the one that was on AH saying: "Getting 90 vere is a matter of a few hours (with friends)" Now you are sitting here saying its BS, lol.

Whats even more funny Gimpchan, is you didnt even start to work on Vere till 90 came out so really, you have no idea about anything.

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First I quit last year and came back in february, secondly I never had the pretention to call myself a good player, but I see you and wish12oz are a little butthurt for for being included in the category of players that ...

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

You didnt do abyssea when it came out but I'll let you in on a secret, for about 75% of the 85 cap, the mobs required for emp KI pops, like gukumatz, tunga, heqet, etc were all 2 hour repops, not 10 minutes. Empyreans didn't become 'easy' until it got switched to 10 minutes, and I would say they didn't even become common until those items came in gold chests. And besides that, as previously said, you didn't even start on your h2h until the 90 cap, so sitting here preaching about how other people didn't do stuff is just making yourself look dumb.

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... try to find excuses for not beating the game that everyone was calling "easy mode" until the super easy mode was released.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Just because you don't have any friends and have to dual-box everything you get, doesn't mean you get to blab in SE's ears about how unfriendly it is to you. The game was built around groups of people doing things, not around your inability to cooperate/share with others.

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I don't dual box. I hate solo play. I don't know how people can stand soloing this crap especially 37 dragua or 25 ulhaudshi. This game is the most boring thing if you solo. Losing argument / being butthurt then moving to personnal attack I see.

When did you ever see me calling my self a good player or saying I was a better player then anyone else? Personally, I dont care what anyone thinks. I have 2 empys that I enjoy but I dont go around thinking I am better than anyone because I have them or that its some huge accomplishment for having one. I dont care if it took me 3 days or 3 months to make one because I still enjoy it just the same.

For some reason, you are the one going around saying people need to "suck less" based on when they got their weapon on dates listed on the AH.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I don't dual box. I hate solo play. I don't know how people can stand soloing this crap especially 37 dragua or 25 ulhaudshi. This game is the most boring thing if you solo. Losing argument / being butthurt then moving to personnal attack I see.

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LOL

"Losing argument/being butthurt the moving to a personal attack I see."

You even failed to get the correct person's name on the quote. Not exactly sure what I lost per se. Get something right man. I haven't lost jack nor am I butthurt. It's almost too easy.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope it's because it's a pain-long to farm a level 90 with only a dual boxed mule, which is also the reason all those dual boxer didn't get the level 85 before christmas nor the level 80 before september .

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Let me clarify a point then. What you quoted is based off of your own words. If you made that statement as a blanket statement, then mine is a blanket statement as well. If you made that statement to specifically address your own situation, then mine specifically addresses yours as well. Either way, you're showing sympathy to dual-boxers and franky, this game has been nerfed enough. It's already to the point where large linkshells don't actually have to exist anymore, just groups of 4-6 people are plenty to do the vast majority of the content in this game, yet we're complaining about how long it takes dual boxers to get an Empyrean Weapon. On top of that, said dual boxers are complaining about some Empyreans not being top notch compared to their Relic/Mythic counterparts, which obviously take a lot more time to get.

Boo f'n hoo.

Starting to think this pipeline SE has opened up directly to them is the biggest mistake they've made in the past couple years...aside from the whole "curing does 99,999 damage to undead" thing.

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Originally Posted by Rearden

Everything you post is garbage but...these numbers are generally correct if you're doing them in a large group. Dyna and Emps take more time with less people, especially in instances like Chloris/Glavoid where there's really no difference in the amount of time it takes to farm 4-6 pops as it does to farm 10+ pops.

Add on to that that Glavoid usually takes a decent amount of time to kill just because he is annoying, whereas Chloris goes down really quick.

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Glavoid is pathetic if you get a few DRK/WARs with Twilight Scythe and full Desperate Blows merits and a BRD for 80% haste. He'll be dead before Last Resort wears off.



(and just in case someone here doesn't get it, you use Twilight Scythe because it doesn't heal Glavoid)

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Originally Posted by Sama

wish12oz you have too much time checking this forum like every millisecond

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Well someone had to pick up the torch after Rog was b&. Looks like he's well on his way to becoming Rog II.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

That obviously cant be true since I missed both of your posts, but ya, I'm not doing anything right now but hitting refresh on 8-9 threads and talking to people on FFXI.
EDIT:: Im also watching a documentary about Israel.

ALSO
Gimpchan!
You didnt do abyssea when it came out but I'll let you in on a secret, for about 75% of the 85 cap, the mobs required for emp KI pops, like gukumatz, tunga, heqet, etc were all 2 hour repops, not 10 minutes. Empyreans didn't become 'easy' until it got switched to 10 minutes, and I would say they didn't even become common until those items came in gold chests. And besides that, as previously said, you didn't even start on your h2h until the 90 cap, so sitting here preaching about how other people didn't do stuff is just making yourself look dumb.

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Oh hey, now argue that Ragnarock is better than Caladbolg. I dare 'ya.

Did he say all relics were better than empy? No, so why compare something else that he isnt even talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Did he say all relics were better than empy? No, so why compare something else that he isnt even talking about.

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^this^

Then again I guess the best defense is to put words in the other persons mouth here...? Difference do not have to be hostilities.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

... try to find excuses for not beating the game that everyone was calling "easy mode" until the super easy mode was released.

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I was actually half done with briarius and half done with sobek at 85 cap before they shortened repop timers to 10-15 min.
And I was done with glavoid and half done with Itzpapa before tunga KIs were added to gold chests, so I have no idea what you're talking about when you say I waited til easy mode to do stuff, unless you're reffering to how I didn't 90 my kannagi until after apademak was fixed, because I didn't want to be that much of a jerk to my friends asking them to kill 200 of the things to finish my weapon.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Did he say all relics were better than empy? No, so why compare something else that he isnt even talking about.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

^this^

Then again I guess the best defense is to put words in the other persons mouth here...? Difference do not have to be hostilities.

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I'm not putting words in his mouth though.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Kannagi is the only empyrean that is always better then its relic and mythic counterparts.
THE ONLY ONE.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

I'm not putting words in his mouth though.

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Kannagi is the only empyrean that is ALWAYS better then its relic and mythic counterparts.
I highlighted the word you seem unable to read and understand.

EDIT:::: Cause I doubt you can figure it out on your own.
What this means is that there are times when other weapons relics/empyreans/mythics have uses.
Like lets say Youre on PLD and youre solo holding AV, are you gonna want to use Almace or Burtgang? Lets say that AV is casting meteor on you, are you going to macro on your aegis, or stay in your ochain?

What I implied is that everything has its uses, and empyreans are not always the best thing to use, I even pointed out when Bravura is better than Ukon. The only one that this doesn't happen for is Kannagi, Kannagi is always best.

What I truly don't get is people desire to continue 3 separate paths(relic, mythic, and empryean) with further augments via Trials? See my many suggestions about an "Ultimate Virtue Weapon" or "Copy/mimic sword". The basic idea is to combine all three paths into a single "final" weapon version that has all weapon strike on a single item.

This approach automatically reward ALL players that unlocked each paths weapon, while keeping players from "skipping" over content simply to get the better weapons.

I also suggested the "Ultimate Virtue Gear" with this same premies of turning in endgame gear combine paths I to a final version of gear.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

You didnt do abyssea when it came out but I'll let you in on a secret, for about 75% of the 85 cap, the mobs required for emp KI pops, like gukumatz, tunga, heqet, etc were all 2 hour repops, not 10 minutes.

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It makes me sad that no one even mentioned how incorrect this is.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

What I truly don't get is people desire to continue 3 separate paths(relic, mythic, and empryean) with further augments via Trials? See my many suggestions about an "Ultimate Virtue Weapon" or "Copy/mimic sword". The basic idea is to combine all three paths into a single "final" weapon version that has all weapon strike on a single item.

This approach automatically reward ALL players that unlocked each paths weapon, while keeping players from "skipping" over content simply to get the better weapons.

I also suggested the "Ultimate Virtue Gear" with this same premies of turning in endgame gear combine paths I to a final version of gear.

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Your idea is really bad and on top of that it wouldn't even work because there's not 3 of every weapon type and not all the same jobs are on the relic/emp/mythic versions of the weapons.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

It makes me sad that no one even mentioned how incorrect this is.

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What is incorrect about this?

I know for sure the timed mobs in the first zones used to be 2 hour, im pretty sure the mobs in the middle zones were too.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Kannagi is the only empyrean that is ALWAYS better then its relic and mythic counterparts.
I highlighted the word you seem unable to read and understand.

EDIT:::: Cause I doubt you can figure it out on your own.
What this means is that there are times when other weapons relics/empyreans/mythics have uses.
Like lets say Youre on PLD and youre solo holding AV, are you gonna want to use Almace or Burtgang? Lets say that AV is casting meteor on you, are you going to macro on your aegis, or stay in your ochain?

What I implied is that everything has its uses, and empyreans are not always the best thing to use, I even pointed out when Bravura is better than Ukon. The only one that this doesn't happen for is Kannagi, Kannagi is always best.

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Honestly I think your are trying a little too hard. I think you are a little butthurt about being unable to get a level 85 empyrean prior to chirstmas for one. For two, I think you are posting here in a crusade to attempt to convince someone (with no maths obviously, because like all BG trolls you suck to much at modelling game a DPS ; because it's obvious, at least for verethragna, that it is "vastly" [to use your previous terms] superior to relic at any time) that all Relics but one can be better than empyrean, so that SE doesn't eventually buff relic and so that they don't make your precious empyrean that took you forever to get worthless.

This forum really just needs a block function.

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I think you are a little butthurt

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with no maths obviously, because like all BG trolls

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You attempt to sneak in some form of "BG elitist" or "BG Troll" In all your posts in retaliation to anyone from BG. Does that not strike you as butthurt too? You seem to hate the place awfully hard.

Just because someone posts on BG does not make them a Troll, and just because someone knows math does not make them a Troll. They speak their opinion, it differs from yours, Big whoop,

You can disagree with someone, and intelligently explain to them why you feel their opinion is wrong, provide proof, and actually back up your claim with things other than blind insults and shots at their forum posting history. it is possible. Even if they're being rude, Its not reason to return the favor. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Everyones human, We all make mistakes, but you shouldn't do this all the time. Almost all posts I see you make are some pseudo-insulting long rant about how someone-or-somethingsaid is dumb and/or wrong. or your wonderful quote, suck less.

For clarifications sake, This has nothing to do with rather i agree or disagree with Wish's point of view, Frankly I was only interested in Bravura/Ukon parses. This is Only to point out you're being quite hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

What is incorrect about this?

I know for sure the timed mobs in the first zones used to be 2 hour, im pretty sure the mobs in the middle zones were too.

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Dude, you're crazy. Nothing in abyssea has ever been more than a 1hr spawn and stuff like adze guku tunga ect. was originally 30~ minutes.

Dude, you're crazy. Ill look up the change later in update notes. but was diff more then 30 minute respawns.

It was 30-45 usually closer to 30. Even stuff like Ovni was only 1 hour~ I started doing abyssea NM runs about 2 weeks after it was introduced and we would go in for 90 minutes and kill roamers 2-3 times a run. The hardest thing about abyssea back then was that we had no clue wtf proced and when so you could claim 5 Adze in a row and never get a KI.

I got somewhat disappointed when FFXI turned into lets duo box everything and get the best weapons in the game. Relics actually took more then just duoboxing some easy NM 25+ times. You had to run dynamis with a large group of people and hope to win some coins. Which is why all that effort on them seems to go to waste when you can basically solo an empyrean if you duobox.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I got somewhat disappointed when FFXI turned into lets duo box everything and get the best weapons in the game. Relics actually took more then just duoboxing some easy NM 25+ times. You had to run dynamis with a large group of people and hope to win some coins. Which is why all that effort on them seems to go to waste when you can basically solo an empyrean if you duobox.

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Personally I prefer a system where i can do work and get a reward without needing to rely on others, over a System where 18~36 people funded 1 person a Relic, said relic-person dropping pearl/breaking-shell/jumping servers optional.

Theres a sense of accomplishment yes, But I never liked the idea of 1 person reaping the rewards of multiple people, no matter how "content" those people were with helping said person.

Thats only me...

But I also feel the power should match the difficulty. Meaning Mythics should be the strongest :P

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Kannagi is the only empyrean that is ALWAYS better then its relic and mythic counterparts.

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When exactly is Ragnarock better than Caladbolg?

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Like lets say Youre on PLD and your solo holding AV, are you gonna want to use Almace or Burtgang?

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First of all, who solo holds AV?

If you are solo holding AV you either have a WHM which renders defense meaningless anyway, or you don't and you are dead. In the first situation you want Almace so your damage is high enough to keep AV off the WHM and the second is completely irrelevant.

Also, lolPLD. You should never bring PLD to anything, ever. It's a useless job.

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Lets say that AV is casting meteor on you, are you going to macro on your aegis, or stay in your ochain?

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Ochain is still better in overall usefullness on AV however.

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I even pointed out when Bravura is better than Ukon

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By using an example that is completely irrelevant in today's FFXI. If the application has no real use it may as well not exist. Defense does not matter anymore, not since WHM ascended to a higher plane of existence. Unless it can outright kill you in one hit a WHM makes you essentially unkillable.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Honestly I think your are trying a little too hard. I think you are a little butthurt about being unable to get a level 85 empyrean prior to chirstmas for one. For two, I think you are posting here in a crusade to attempt to convince someone (with no maths obviously, because like all BG trolls you suck to much at modelling game a DPS ; because it's obvious, at least for verethragna, that it is "vastly" [to use your previous terms] superior to relic at any time) that all Relics but one can be better than mythic, so that SE doesn't eventually buff relic and so that they don't make your precious empyrean that took you forever to get worthless.

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That's the vibe I'm getting too. The real audience for his crusade isn't us it's the devs.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

By using an example that is completely irrelevant in today's FFXI. If the application has no real use it may as well not exist. Defense does not matter anymore, not since WHM ascended to a higher plane of existence. Unless it can outright kill you in one hit a WHM makes you essentially unkillable.

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WHMs outside abyssea usually don't have unlimited MP. As far as irrelevant goes, here's some voidwatch info from today!

Ok so, gear: N legs+1 are 6 acc 3 crit rate. This is my general I have no idea how much dex a mob has, outside abyssea ukkos build.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/wargrz.jpg
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218925 -TP set, except Agasayas collar instead of ravager gorget.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217121 -WS set

Mobs: T1-3 Windy Voidwatch mobs.
Acc was about 80% total, Ukkos average 1300~
Didnt use food. Random funny log Screenshots:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u1.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u2.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u3.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u4.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u5.jpg

Bravura would of given me 30 acc, or 15% hit rate, or 15% damage, however you want to look at it, as well as hitting for the same amount of damage using the same gear, but only doing around 1000-1200 average for WSs, plus I probably wouldn't of died with bravura twice when I pulled hate and was playing my WHM for 5 seconds and couldnt switch to my PDT set. Bravura beats Ukon for this type of stuff, in damage done to mobs and in reducing damage taken, I can provide more SS's of all the other mobs if people really want to see them too~

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Didnt use food.

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Of course you didn't because that favors Bravura.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Of course you didn't because that favors Bravura.

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Wouldn't that be worse for Ukon?

Technically for Ukon, He'd of been using Pizza (I assume, to cap accuracy/small attack boost), Where as for Bravura, He could use Red Curry Bun. I assume he used no food on both tests, however i'm sure he'd retest it if needed.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Technically for Ukon, He'd of been using Pizza (I assume, to cap accuracy/small attack boost), Where as for Bravura, He could use Red Curry Bun.

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This is exactly the point, didnt use food to prove my acc was bad. Ukon = pizza, Bravura = red curry, which tips the scales even more in Bravuras favor. But the acc issue is one of the main things that make Bravura better which is what I said in my original post about it.

EDIT: ACC was fine on T1s (capped or close), was not bad til T2/3.
EDIT2: Monks acc on Vampire guy was like 50% lol, go go 1 handed weapons.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

WHMs outside abyssea usually don't have unlimited MP. As far as irrelevant goes, here's some voidwatch info from today!

Ok so, gear: N legs+1 are 6 acc 3 crit rate. This is my general I have no idea how much dex a mob has, outside abyssea ukkos build.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/wargrz.jpg
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218925 -TP set, except Agasayas collar instead of ravager gorget.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217121 -WS set

Mobs: T1-3 Windy Voidwatch mobs.
Acc was about 80% total, Ukkos average 1300~
Didnt use food. Random funny log Screenshots:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u1.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u2.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u3.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u4.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/u5.jpg

Bravura would of given me 30 acc, or 15% hit rate, or 15% damage, however you want to look at it, as well as hitting for the same amount of damage using the same gear, but only doing around 1000-1200 average for WSs, plus I probably wouldn't of died with bravura twice when I pulled hate and was playing my WHM for 5 seconds and couldnt switch to my PDT set. Bravura beats Ukon for this type of stuff, in damage done to mobs and in reducing damage taken, I can provide more SS's of all the other mobs if people really want to see them too~

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LOL. You posted SSs from the highest level THF mob in the game with no food. I've fought that thing on DRG and my acc was miserable. If you had 80% acc on that thing then the 35 acc on Bravura is superfluous on everything else in the game. As for the death shot you died cause no one cured you. There's 4 melee attacks a silencga and 2 TP moves in there before you even start to cast cure on yourself.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

LOL. You posted SSs from the highest level THF mob in the game with no food. I've fought that thing on DRG and my acc was miserable. If you had 80% acc on that thing then the 35 acc on Bravura is superfluous on everything else in the game. As for the death shot you died cause no one cured you. There's 5 melee attacks a silencga and a TP move in there before you even start to cast cure on yourself.

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All the high tier voidwatch mobs have evasion like this. Not just this one. And ya, Im lousy at curing myself and I die a lot.
Also, I said 80% overall, only counting the vampie guy my acc would of been lower.

They absolutely have nowhere near that things evasion. I've fought them all.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

They absolutely have nowhere near that things evasion. I've fought them all.

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Then you should know that you have to use a bunch of acc gear or sacrifice food. And while the Vampire may in have the highest evasion in the game (I have no idea) I can say for certain that I had lots of acc issues on many other Voidwatch mobs too, this is just what I was doing today.

I don't know what to tell you man. T1-3 minus the Vamp are all really easy imo and I have seen them absolutely destroyed by Ukons once lights are capped. The only T4 that has any kind of evasion at all is the Harpy but because of the AoE melee attacks you can't even TP on it anyway. Your window of Bravura superiority is so small it's almost non-existent.