[dev1049] New weapon skills

I wonder how the people that spent weeks animating these WSs feel about the fact that most of them will never be used.

Wow a nerf on Realmrazer? Really?

Jeez SE, why did you bother animating these new WS when you're gonna cut them all off the knees before they even go live? Who the hell cares about Hexa Strike? Any self-respecting WHM DD was going to upgrade to Realmrazer anyway.

There was no balancing issue here.

On the test server, in the Weapon Skills merit category, the heading above the WSs is "Group 1." If "Group 2" is something inventive that allows weaponskill power-ups (like merit points that give a critical hit rate bonus to the WSs), then these could end up being the most powerful weaponskills in the game still.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Please don't shoot the messenger. I think the poor Moogles already have to deal with the dev team trying to eat their poms. I imagine their salary doesn't even include Kupo Nuts!



I was hoping you'd accept my explanation, but I suppose being a White Mage Tarutaru isn't enough... I'd have to have the onion haircut too.



Non-White Mages? But if the issue is that White Mage should get a better weapon skill... perhaps they should buff Hexa Strike for White Mages at higher skill levles or give White Mages another WS learned at a higher skill while keeping Realmrazer the same...

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I would expect the messengers to also have a reply button that goes to the dev teams that says: You're doing it wrong.

At the very least have some degree of insight, to say "Hey, this is going to piss of the community bro. You really want these NW's to be comparable to level 58-67 crap? Wut?

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I wonder how the people that spent weeks animating these WSs feel about the fact that most of them will never be used.

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This is my biggest concern.

Someone obviously put a lot of time and heart into these skills. It shows. They're gorgeous.

Why spoil all of that hard work by making the WS weak?

Seriously, can we have the Devs take about five minutes from developing to read this thread themselves? Whatever the moogles are telling them, they aren't getting the message (at no fault of your own, guys, I promise).

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Originally Posted by Deadvinta

Seriously, can we have the Devs take about five minutes from developing to read this thread themselves? Whatever the moogles are telling them, they aren't getting the message (at no fault of your own, guys, I promise).

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Without meaning any disrespect to them, I highly doubt the Devs are able to read English at a high enough level (especially when including internet slang and colloquialisms) for them to actually read anything in the English forums firsthand.

English is taught in schools in Japan, but there's a reason even most JP players prefer to stay in their own language. There's a huge gap between knowing enough to pass an exam and being able to communicate with English speaking people regularly. Even the Zam/Elmer interviews are done in bilingual settings.

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Originally Posted by Deadvinta

Whatever the moogles are telling them, they aren't getting the message (at no fault of your own, guys, I promise).

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In order to communicate fully with the FFXI development team, someone would need to think like the development team.

Imagine a world where up is down. Is down up? No. Down is an egg sandwich. Except when it's not. Sometimes down is a bittersweet memory of a pet turtle you had when you were seven. Sometimes down isn't down, as in the towards-the-center-of-the-earth down, just the word "down" but it actually means "left". Left is usually an anteater.

Even having the mindset down, this individual would need to learn a written language composed entirely of crude drawings of people being crushed by large kitchen appliances. Mostly stoves, for some reason. If not speak, the individual would at least need to understand a spoken language composed entirely of guttural noises. Every one of which imitates the passing of flatus.

No language that currently existed when FFXI was created could convey some of the development team's ideas properly and they had to make a new one, you see.

seriously?

http://images.wikia.com/sonicfanon/i...inbowDash4.png

#facepalm

All of this nonsense about thinking like the dev team or not is simply that. Nonsense.

They want us to test and evaluate their product the answer is: No, your current idea and direction this REALLY COOL PRESENTATION, is starting to suck. Therefore we do not like your product, please revise your mistake.

Please do not gimp the Club WS, or any other WS for that matter. Please focus on MAKING THEM BETTER SO THAT WE CAN USE THEM <--- This. Auto-Translate Can I have It?

I mean really devs, messengers, random moogles. Why can't you simply send these ideas in a nice little Microsoft Outlook message that says: Guys, the community really hates this. Can you reevaluate? We need something to make them not rage right now.

What you did was you showed us a really cool product, you made us think wow that'll be hot and amazing. We "tested" it, down to a mathematical level and found that they suck. BUT WE HAVE ASKED YOU TO MAKE IT BETTER BECAUSE WE LIKE IT.

Your response: No we need to make it weaker! Think of poor Hexa Strike! <-- Really sit down and evaluate what you're doing here. It's really not right. You are wrong. Please fix it, not break it further to the point where your next year census says no one merited that WS.

We want to like your product, help us like it more. So you can have our Clink-Clink.

I'm very disappointed about the club WS nerf. I was hearing such great feedback that I already started to regear my warrior for a perma club set up, and I was considering doing the same for my THF NIN SAM DRK BRD BST and RNG afterwards.

I suppose Realmrazer'll end up being an answer to people that wanted Hexa Strike though. I was looking forward to a Hexa Strike upgrade myself, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I wonder how the people that spent weeks animating these WSs feel about the fact that most of them will never be used.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

This is my biggest concern.

Someone obviously put a lot of time and heart into these skills. It shows. They're gorgeous.

Why spoil all of that hard work by making the WS weak?

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Even beyond that, they put a cap on how many points you could put into merits!

Nobody who really plays this game is going to merit all of the weapon skills due to the 15 point cap. If balance is really an issue, just make it harder to merit more then 15 at one time, not impossible!

We should be able to merit all the WS even if doing that requires one thousand times the work that meriting only three of them does!

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Wow a nerf on Realmrazer? Really?

Jeez SE, why did you bother animating these new WS when you're gonna cut them all off the knees before they even go live? Who the hell cares about Hexa Strike? Any self-respecting WHM DD was going to upgrade to Realmrazer anyway.

There was no balancing issue here.

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Perhaps there is a balancing issue. I can totally respect the dev team if they want White Mage to be better at Club WS then other jobs. Perhaps this is what they are thinking.

Of course, then the ideal solution would be to buff Hexa Strike for high level White Mages or give White Mages an even more advanced club WS. Perhaps anyone meriting the weapon skill gets an advanced version if they have a certain job? It doesn't even have to be cosmetically different from a WS that the WS already has if that would put it into the realm of not being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Vold

I'm very disappointed about the club WS nerf. I was hearing such great feedback that I already started to regear my warrior for a perma club set up, and I was considering doing the same for my THF NIN SAM DRK BRD BST and RNG afterwards.

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The Moepapa Mace was starting to shoot up in price on my server... I wonder how many people bought one?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Sorry about that - edited the original post for clarity: "Considering that players can use attack boosts and double attack effects to enhance damage (edited at 12:28pm PST), we decided that an adjustment was unnecessary."

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Except it's a percentage reduction not a static reduction. So any attack boosts are themselves reduced. If you want to make it weaker then reduce it's WSC or knock a hit off it or something similar, don't put a permanent percentage reduction to attack. Even if the WS deals neutral damage it would still be weaker then Vorpal / CDC in virtually every scenario. We don't go around meleeing slimes.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Who the hell clicked the like button on this dumb ass nerf?

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Prolly someone that doesn't use those weapons.

I think the devs got hit in the head with that big ass star from the Magian Moogle too many times....

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The Moepapa Mace was starting to shoot up in price on my server... I wonder how many people bought one?

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Well I was saying what I said to be sarcastic because I don't feel any job other than WHM is going to care about the new club WS. I suppose other magey jobs who might want to melee time from time could use but like it's not a stretch to say WHM is supposed to be a melee of sorts anyway. It's common for the "white mage <insert equivalent in other games>" job/class to wield a hammer and be a decent melee for screwing around. Even if this WS did 10,000 damage everyone that could use it would find it very hard to put down their cool great axes katanas daggers swords and so on to wield a club like they're a cave man or something. People would probably stfu and do it but they won't like it.

Looking at that one you mention though made me do a double take when I checked it's stats because I keep hearing about it. Before I didn't really think it was all that great. Kind of like, what a piece of crap how is that worth what's it's worth. Then just now I see that dmg on it and it's like, bloody hell, really? It's like if in the next update we got a AH dagger with 71 dmg on it. Say wha? Holy shit. I think they should be upping 1h damage like that anyway because it's getting a bit silly being the level we are at right now and will be soon and weapon base damages have barely increased while 2h is shooting through the roof.

I remember starting this game when it came out for NA and trying to figure out what job I wanted to be. I tried Warrior, it seemed easy enough to get to 30 so I did. I later tried other jobs after reaching 30 on WAR until I found WHM.

WHM was great, very easy to get a party and was quite fun for me. I didn't love WHM until a party in Crawler's Nest. Why there? Well, my party was grinding off of crawlers and lizards for a few hours. Then this WHM came up and used Hexa Strike in front of our group and I stopped what I was doing and was awestruck.

I never thought the same way about WHM ever again, and other job possibilities instantly went away. I wanted that WS, and worked hard to get it (as I of course wasn't skilling up club at all). When I finally was able to use it, everything changed. I no longer was interested in a mage WHM anymore, melee was where the fun was at for me. I didn't care about other melee jobs, of course they are going to be good at melee. WHM was something different, a challenge in itself to kick some butt.

I won't ever forget how I felt seeing that taru use hexa and finally getting the message that said I had access to hexa strike. As great as those memories are Square Enix, that was eight years ago. There has not been a WS since then that has overcome Hexa. The next WS after that that WHM's started using a lot was Mystic Boon... 4-5 years ago. Yea, it is just to replenish MP but it changed WHM melee. Even with MB there has not been a Damage ws that has replaced Hexa since, and this isn't only for WHM. There are many jobs that have always used the same WS's for years and years and years!

We all crave for something new to replace these WS's that we have grown bored of, but understandably there wasn't room during the level 75 cap. With the level cap rise gave plenty of room and amazing hope that there would be weapon skills to replace these that are great, but we have grown bored with.

SE you have essentially failed on this. You made these WS's and promised us that we would look forward to them. You gave us power, even WHM, and took it away from us. I was concerned myself that this WS would be given to other jobs and maybe other jobs would be more powerful than WHM ever could be with a club. That didn't matter to me, as always I was never concerned about what other jobs did in dmg. That isn't why WHM's even melee to begin with. So what if a PLD will be able to beat WHM in dmg now, I don't care! If I wanted to be a PLD and melee I would be, but I love WHM.

You essentially teased us and took something we have wished for 8 years away from us. I'm beyond disappointed, I have nothing else to look forward to meriting in this update. I play DNC sometimes, but I won't be focusing merits into dagger just like I'm no longer focusing on club now. I'll get the WS in time, but this just crushed me hard.

To me this is like you giving us Afflatus Solace with Orison Bliaud +2 to give stoneskin to party members then changing it to regen because it's too powerful.

Camate, Bayohne, please be honest with us. Are the devs actually listening to anything we're saying, or are they just smiling at our feedback, appreciating that we're giving it, and then tossing it in the trash to do something else entirely because the players can't possibly know more about their game and how it's balanced than they do?

Because the players are a lot more well informed about how poorly balanced this game is, and thus far, the devs are only making it worse. Tell them that if they feel any of the new WS need to be weakened, the only acceptable answer is Tachi: Shoha, because it's stronger than the 5~6 other incredibly powerful great katana ws (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha, Kaiten, Fudo, and arguably Rana due to SC properties) that completely dominate damage competition when compared to the other 13 weapons' 1~2 powerful WS.

I'm going to go make an in depth weapon skill strength chart using the universal language of math to explain exactly why the devs have yet to do anything correctly with these WS, if their goal is to restore/preserve what little balance is left.

220 > 357

Only in Vana'diel...

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Originally Posted by Vold

would find it very hard to put down their cool great axes katanas daggers swords and so on

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Fair enough, I personally find many of those weapons to look (and in the case of Great Katana, sound) really cool, and if I didn't enjoy using hammers so much (Hexa Strike has an awesome animation) I might be playing some other job and hitting things with weapons, or at very least I'd get a Fulcrum Pole (the thing looks and hits like a beat stick) and use that.

It really kills me that there is a 15 point allocation limit on the merited weapon skills, because I'd like to be able to merit them all without gimping myself, even if it took a boatload of work. I'd like to be able to see these new, cool looking weapon skills whenever I do end up playing other jobs for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Vold

Then just now I see that dmg on it and it's like, bloody hell, really? It's like if in the next update we got a AH dagger with 71 dmg on it. Say wha? Holy shit. I think they should be upping 1h damage like that anyway because it's getting a bit silly being the level we are at right now and will be soon and weapon base damages have barely increased while 2h is shooting through the roof.

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Maybe it is a bit high for an AH club, but clubs (or more accurately, Hammers and Maces, which are Clubs) have had higher damage numbers then Axes, Swords, Katanas, or Daggers. It is alot like the difference between damage Katanas with higher damage and delay for the main hand and the speed Katanas that are usually in the offhand. These aren't the wimpy wands you may have been used to seeing, and will kill things by using the highly advanced principal of extreme blunt force trauma.

"Back in the day", at 75 cap, Mjollnir was the highest damage one handed weapon in the game. While Axes or Swords (I believe one of these are the next highest damage one handed weapons) have been scaling quite nicely in the damage department too, they just don't match up to Mjollnir's current 87 damage at level 95, or the reported 93 it gets on the test server at level 99.

Now one handed weapons might not scale as well as two handed weapons are in terms of damage or DPS, but with a one handed weapon you can offhand a multihitter or one of the magian weapons that boosts double attack rate, or just plain using double and triple attack procs with dual wield can be pretty damaging. While I do wish the weapon skills for one handed weapons could be improved more, some do pretty well despite having low damage rating weapons, like the dagger.

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Originally Posted by Kalilla

I was concerned myself that this WS would be given to other jobs and maybe other jobs would be more powerful than WHM ever could be with a club.

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I love your story, and I wish I could even remember what drew me into my glorious quest for all that is righteous and just. Still, although my motivation may be lost to the sands of time, my campaign of terror on all that opposes the good things in this world, from the smallest kitten to the tastiest cheese sandwich.

If balance compared to White Mage was an issue, they could just give WHM something even better, even if it is a reskin of Realmrazer that you only get while having Realmrazer merited but is an advanced version for White Mage only.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

I'm going to go make an in depth weapon skill strength chart using the universal language of math

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I'm looking forward to such a chart, we lack a lot of good, deep analysis of the game these days.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Tell them that if they feel any of the new WS need to be weakened, the only acceptable answer is Tachi: Shoha, because it's stronger than the 5~6 other incredibly powerful great katana ws (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha, Kaiten, Fudo, and arguably Rana due to SC properties) that completely dominate damage competition when compared to the other 13 weapons' 1~2 powerful WS.

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You're an idiot if you're under the impression any of those six weapon skills hold any relevance in this day and age.

While Shoha and Last Stand clearly stand ahead of the rest of the weapon skills now (with Exenterator, Apex Arrow, Shijin Spiral and I think Resolution to a lesser extent after the latest adjustment to it), there's no need to downgrade them simply because they hold relevance.

Boost the other weapon skills so that they too become worthwhile instead of just a mere 1,000,000* limit point sink for a fancy animation you'll use once every two months to remind yourself of how you wish the new animations were being put to use instead of collecting dust, because they are literally just that awful currently.

*Forgot a zero since my mind's subtly trying to trick me into being optimistic.

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Originally Posted by IronPandemonium

You're an idiot if you're under the impression any of those six weapon skills hold any relevance in this day and age.

While Shoha and Last Stand clearly stand ahead of the rest of the weapon skills now (with Exenterator, Apex Arrow, Shijin Spiral and I think Resolution to a lesser extent after the latest adjustment to it), there's no need to downgrade them simply because they hold relevance.

Boost the other weapon skills so that they too become worthwhile instead of just a mere 1,000,000* limit point sink for a fancy animation you'll use once every two months to remind yourself of how you wish the new animations were being put to use instead of collecting dust, because they are literally just that awful currently.

*Forgot a zero since my mind's subtly trying to trick me into being optimistic.

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....are you trying to tell me that no sam uses any of the WS I listed? Not even Kaiten or Fudo? and given that most sams don't own Amano/masa, Gekko and Kasha would still be their go-to WS. Or are you using the "Abyssea = Crit ws only" line of thought, because we've already established a LONG time ago that Abyssea is done, and not to expect more content like it.

Or are you trying to tell me that the three ws with the highest WSC in the game (prior to merit ws), huge attack and accuracy boosts, and strong fTP, are some how not as powerful now as they were at 75? Or the incredibly powerful Kaiten and Fudo that have had sams creaming themselves for years now are some how suddenly not incredibly powerful?

What in the world are you smoking?

Also, ruinator pretty much destroys every other axe WS outside of Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter for stuff that resists physical damage/is extra weak to magic damage, and shattersoul finally gave staff a physical WS that isn't awful (lookin at you, retribution). Realmrazer also gave non-whms a great club WS that didn't require the awkward gearsets and moderate amount of luck that true strike requires to be solid. Hell, even nerfed it'll still do that... I hope...

The point I was trying to make with the sam WS was that sam has 5 incredibly strong WS that are just as good against low def EXP trash as they are against high def HNMs, and they're STRONG against high def HNMs. If you ignore Relic/Empy WS as they're NOT the standard for melee; Compare the heavy DDs (War, Mnk, Drk, Drg, Sam). Yes I realize other jobs are "DDs" as well, but these five are the balls-to-the-wall DDONRY jobs that focus (almost) entirely on physical damage.

War:
WS vs Low Def: 3 (Raging Rush, Fell Cleave, Rampage)
WS vs High Def: 1 (Fell Cleave (basically took steel cyclone's spot))
WS that are strong vs Both: 1 (Fell Cleave)
Merit WS: Upheavel is meh, Ruinator beats Rampage and is ok vs High Def, but you would be better off using gaxe vs High def typically

Mnk:
WS vs Low Def: 1 (Asuran Fists (Ascetic's Fury is garbage outside of abyssea, Tornado Kick and Dragon Kick need footwork to be competitive, and footwork murders dps))
WS vs High Def: 1 (Howling Fist)
WS that are strong vs Both: none
Merit WS: Shijin Spiral is competitive with/stronger than Asuran vs Low Def, and soundly trounces Howling Fist vs High Def, giving non vere mnks access to their first WS that is strong vs both

Drk:
WS vs Low Def: 2 (Guillotine, Insurgency)
WS vs High Def: 1 (Spinning Slash)
WS that are strong vs Both: none
Merit WS: Resolution gives great sword the ability to be used in either situation, but entropy is just another guillotine clone that's primarily for low def/utility.

Drg:
WS vs Low Def: 2-3 (Penta Thrust, Drakesbane, Sonic Thrust?)
WS vs High Def: 1-2 (Wheeling Thrust, Sonic Thrust?)
WS that are strong vs Both: 1? (Sonic Thrust)
Merit WS: Stardiver is horrible

Sam:
WS vs Low Def: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
WS vs High Def: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
WS that are strong vs Both: 3 (Yukikaze, Gekko, Kasha)
Merit WS: Tachi: Shoha is basically YGK put together, and is absurdly strong. Sam doesn't have any "situational" ws aside from using rana to open darkness for gekko.

I threw out empies because all of their empies are vicious WS (except lolquietus and lolcamlann'storment), and relic because all of the relic ws are more utility-for-aftermath ws than actual damage, except for Kaiten which has always been stronger than YGK

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Originally Posted by Theytak

missing the point

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To put it succinctly: WAR/SAM.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Stuff

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Please stop pretending you know how this game works. It's extremely clear you don't.

What am I looking at? You could have just stopped at WAR, where you didn't even list the WS that matters:

Ukko's Fury.

They aren't all vicious, a select few are absurdly powerful, anything besides those are powerful but not quite as or situationally useful assets to have. Victory Smite and Ukko's Fury are the only two weaponskills that I would put into the first category.

If you don't think Empyrean weaponskills are standard for DDs that are worth a grain of salt, then I don't know what to tell you.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png

Also would like to note that Ascetic's Fury is pretty baller with Impetus up.

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Originally Posted by Serj

Please stop pretending you know how this game works. It's extremely clear you don't.

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Please elaborate on your assertion, or kindly withdraw it.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

What am I looking at? You could have just stopped at WAR, where you didn't even list the WS that matters:

Ukko's Fury.


If you don't think Empyrean weaponskills are standard for DDs that are worth a grain of salt, then I don't know what to tell you.

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I didn't say that. I said empy WS aren't the standard for most players since most players don't have them. Doesn't matter how "easy" they are to get now, because the bulk of the playerbase 1) is to lazy to bother making them, 2) doesn't have the ability accomplish getting one even with abyssea godmode playstyle or 3) is waiting until 99 before deciding whether to put in the effort.

Being lazy does not provide grounds to exempt Empyrean weaponskills from your listings. They are the superior weaponskills in most or every situation, there's no getting around that. Many to most players do in fact have at least one Empyrean weapon, the lazy minority is not a model to work an entire argument around.

Empyrean weaponskills are the standard.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Being lazy does not provide grounds to exempt Empyrean weaponskills from your listings. They are the superior weaponskills in most or every situation, there's no getting around that. Many to most players do in fact have at least one Empyrean weapon, the lazy minority is not a model to work an entire argument around.

Empyrean weaponskills are the standard.

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If you would actually read what I said, rather than just skimming and going "NO EMPY? U RONG U FAIL",

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Originally Posted by Theytak

I threw out empies because all of their empies are vicious WS (except lolquietus and lolcamlann'storment), and relic because all of the relic ws are more utility-for-aftermath ws than actual damage, except for Kaiten which has always been stronger than YGK

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when comparing things, it's fairly standard procedure to drop something that is static across the board. The fact that drks get torcleaver and drgs still use drakesbane over camlann's (as far as I know, anyway, I don't read much about drgs), and that Ukko/Smite/Fudo/Torc are all pretty much in the same category of "holyshitpowerful" means that I shouldn't need to include them in a comparison, they should just be assumed. Forgive me for hoping the people reading my post might actually use their brain...

Additionally, I didn't base my argument around "the lazy minority" I based it around the majority of the player base that don't own an empy weapon for every job they can play.

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Please elaborate on your assertion, or kindly withdraw it.

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Well, it seemed you had the assumption that Fudo/Kaiten have an attack bonus, which they do not. You're also under the assumption that they're extremely powerful ws, which compared to strong ws on just about every other DD job, they are not.

Shoha is something that's extremely needed for sam in the current state of the ws for the current state of sam and the game. Nerfing it is straight up making sam an inferior DD by not giving them a relevant ws.

You also think Sonic Drive is a better ws than Drakesbane, which will never be the case. And you also think Stardiver is a bad ws when it really isn't that bad.

Greataxe is ALWAYS superior to single axes and you should almost always be using RR (because apparently Ukko's is hard to get).


tl;dr You're entire post is extremely flawed. And above everything, you missed the point of who you quoted. If you still don't get the point of Iron's post, it's that sam isn't a good DD compared to war and other options on anything relevant in the game and you're asking for the thing that's going to help fix that to be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Serj

Well, it seemed you had the assumption that Fudo/Kaiten have an attack bonus, which they do not. You're also under the assumption that they're extremely powerful ws, which compared to strong ws on just about every other DD job, they are not.

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I never said that Fudo/Kaiten get an attack bonus. And are you comparing these ws inside or outside of lolabyssea?

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Originally Posted by Serj

Shoha is something that's extremely needed for sam in the current state of the ws for the current state of sam and the game. Nerfing it is straight up making sam an inferior DD by not giving them a relevant ws.

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....wut? Are you seriously trying to say that sam isn't one of the most powerful jobs in the game right now? How is Shoha something sam NEEDED? That's like saying Cors NEED a full sized cannon to shoot with because they're pirates.

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Originally Posted by Serj

You also think Sonic Drive is a better ws than Drakesbane, which will never be the case. And you also think Stardiver is a bad ws when it really isn't that bad.

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I NEVER said it was better. I put a question mark by it because I know it was a decent~strong ws when it was released, but like I said, I never read anything about drg, so I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Serj

Greataxe is ALWAYS superior to single axes and you should almost always be using RR (because apparently Ukko's is hard to get).

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While I completely agree with this sentiment (and didn't say, or even imply otherwise), I would ask you that you tell that to every war that owns a farsha. No seriously, tell them, because seeing a war with a farsha makes me cringe.

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Originally Posted by Serj

tl;dr You're entire post is extremely flawed. And above everything, you missed the point of who you quoted. If you still don't get the point of Iron's post, it's that sam isn't a good DD compared to war and other options on anything relevant in the game and you're asking for the thing that's going to help fix that to be nerfed.

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wtf is with people and their inability to read and comprehend? SUPERGEARUKONWAR applies to the top 5~10% of the players, and requires a fairly decent amount of work and understanding of the job to pull off. Prior to achieving that level of play, sam wins almost every time.

Perle War vs Perle Sam: Sam wi... no, nvm, They're both wearing perle, no body wins in that situation.
Step-above-perle-AH War vs Step-above-perle-AH Sam: Sam wins
Decently geared War vs Decently Geared Sam: Sam wins
Moderately well geared War vs Moderately well geared Sam: Sam wins
Well geared War vs Well geared Sam: War can finally compete with Sam, depending on the individual player.
Top of the Line War vs Top of the Line Sam: War wins

The reason Sam wins is because sam is just damn easier to gear for, and has a lot more access to Store TP than any other DD. Sam requires much more lenient levels of Gear Quality and Player Intelligence to play well, and that's the bulk of its problem.

I don't care if SUPERGODMOADSAM can't beat SUPERGODMOADWAR, because the chances of me ever being in a party with them are pretty much nil. I do, however, care about the fact that since I will never achieve SUPERGODMOAD status in terms of gear, no matter how well I gear myself, I'll always get shown up by some Sam who doesn't understand anything about the game an just spams his crap, due entirely to having a heavy advantage in base work required to do good damage.

I don't have a problem getting beaten in a parse by someone who's done more work on their character, or even someone who's put in as much work as I have. I do have a problem with some random idiot being able to slap on any old thing and suddenly be able to keep up with me, without putting in 1/10 the effort.

Also, Shoha's totally broken compared to the other merit ws, and you seriously can't deny that. Talk about missing the point though. My whole point was that, if SE wanted to nerf one of the new WS, they should nerf one that's amazing, rather than nerfing the ones that are already horribad. It's kind of like kicking a dog. If there was no way to avoid it happening, would you rather watch someone kick a healthy dog that can fend for itself, or a sick puppy that can barely stand? Also, come on. They're never gonna nerf sam, this is Samurai Fantasy XI.

Farsha is for brews that's about it.

Maybe a faux high damage main hand on bst? Idk I only see them in pet axes all the time. Or Glyph Axes...

Sam is powerful but it's not the most powerful DD in the game. Do not fear though, SE is clearly hard at work rectifying this problem.

There's something about catering to the lowest denominator in all this, but I'm too tired to post it.

I think not accounting for Empyrean weaponskills is a big part of how the Development Bros came up with the statistics for these weaponskills in the first place. Or, in some cases, even considering a Warrior sacrificing well over 40 main-hand attack and accuracy to whack something with a Club instead of a Great Axe.

I feel like I'm dealing with a automotive salesman who wants to sell me a 1978 Chevy Van for 40,000 dollars because it weighs twice as much as a new car. They're missing some very important factors and focusing on barely relevant stuff instead.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I think not accounting for Empyrean weaponskills is a big part of how the Development Bros came up with the statistics for these weaponskills in the first place. Or, in some cases, even considering a Warrior sacrificing well over 40 main-hand attack and accuracy to whack something with a Club instead of a Great Axe.

I feel like I'm dealing with a automotive salesman who wants to sell me a 1978 Chevy Van for 40,000 dollars because it weighs twice as much as a new car. They're missing some very important factors and focusing on barely relevant stuff instead.

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Sounds like business as usual to me

I just wanted to add my 5 cents about how the devs are completely retarded at this point. I love sam and all, but the dev team has made it clear that they want most of these new ws to be useless or highly situational. Sam gets a WS that makes Masamune more or less useless, DRK gets another guillotine -1 that restores mp! Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Being lazy does not provide grounds to exempt Empyrean weaponskills from your listings. They are the superior weaponskills in most or every situation, there's no getting around that. Many to most players do in fact have at least one Empyrean weapon, the lazy minority is not a model to work an entire argument around.

Empyrean weaponskills are the standard.

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Big ass lie. Huge majority of people does not have an Empyrean.

Secondly, Empyreans isn't what this is about, they were talking about Hexa Strike, so he used comparable WS from other jobs to demonstrate his point. It's not at all related to how good or bad they are in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Serj

Shoha is something that's extremely needed for sam in the current state of the ws for the current state of sam and the game. Nerfing it is straight up making sam an inferior DD by not giving them a relevant ws.

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That's wrong, SAM is a very powerful DD in the current state of the game, arguably the best. Although that wasn't even the point, it just shows you don't know your shit.

As for the current topic (Realmrazer nerf), I can't say anything that hasn't been said already. Although if I do, maybe it'll carry more weight, so here goes: Retarded. Another example in a long line of mistakes by the development team. Good going, guys.

You guys just don't understand what the Dev teams for FFXi are going for!

LONGEST COMBO OF TERRIBLE DECISIONS EVER!

And to have a good idea now would be a major

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

I'm done trolling the devs now lol~

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Originally Posted by Saiken253

You guys just don't understand what the Dev teams for FFXi are going for!

LONGEST COMBO OF TERRIBLE DECISIONS EVER!

And to have a good idea now would be a major

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

I'm done trolling the devs now lol~

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No you aren't.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That's wrong, SAM is a very powerful DD in the current state of the game, arguably the best.

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Shut up.

Guess what job I play in 2011, going on '12 currently with a weapon that I obtained in a mere two months compared to the two and a half years I took to complete my relic back before Abyssea.

You're one of those paladins without Ochain or even Almace that full times 5/5 Creed +2 because it's good, am I right.

Dear developers.

There is no reason to balance weaponskills for level 96 up against weaponskills for level 50-70. It is only natural that higher level weaponskills turn out stronger than lower level weaponskills.

To take a bit of an extreme example. You say Realmrazer is going to end up weaker than hexa strike. Isn't the new Greataxe WS stronger than Raging Rush? Why can't Realmrazer be better than Hexa strike, in that case?