Thoughts on the FFXI Job Adjustment Manifesto

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Wait, there's gear that enhances Adloquium? This is news to me.

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Maybe its enhancing magic based? like how boost and gain spells are?

Fixed! Man, you guys are callin' me out non-stop today. Spelled scholar wrong, Bayohne! I've never seen Adloquium-enhancing gear, Bayohne! We miss Camate, Bayohne!

Man... :(

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Wait, there's gear that enhances Adloquium? This is news to me.

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I think they mean gear that boosts the stratagems that can be used with it, like making it last longer. Either that or they're going to release gear that makes it more potent. I really hope so too, because I'd die of a laughing fit if they really meant equipping gear to boost Accession and Perpetuance.

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In the future, we plan on looking into introducing gear that enhances the effect.

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Yup, edited very quickly to reflect what they meant. Poor community reps almost got schooled by a horde of angry Scholars who are acting like they just lost Tenure.

Actually, I think Tenure should be a new Scholar ability of some sort.

EDIT: Post corrected

Also, you'd have to be a little bit willfully blind to not consider Grounds of Valor and Abyssea "standard procedure."

I guess the general theme of the Scholar adjustments is "We're working on a lot of stuff with Scholar right now, it's a process, please be patient and don't expect any one change to move mountains."

Given that the Regen changes are pretty decent and that the few job over-hauls have gone well in the past, I'm okay with believing the current state of Helices is just one phase of a larger change. Well, assuming that large change doesn't involve level-capped content and me feeling sad because of level-capped content.

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This is a bit off-topic, but regarding the effects of "Adloquium," we decided not to adjust its base stats. We recommend increasing its effects by adjusting equipped gear.

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I recommend developing a piece of gear that enhances the potency of "Adloquium" some time between now and level 99. I love equipment that affects spells or abilities, but such equipment needs to actually exist in order to have such effects.

Edit: A lot happened while I was going to the bathroom with my post half-typed, apparently! I see gear that enhances "Adloquium" is already planned. Cool.

Vague future adjustments are great and all, just remember that we live now and saying "yeah this adjustment sucks now and only serves to lessen your importance, but we've got a plan" is hard to swallow.

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I love equipment that affects spells or abilities

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I do to but... I've got a lot of gear on sch. Why can't adloquium just not suck?

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

I’m sorry for making similar requests two days in a row, but please understand that we are making adjustments so that scholar becomes a useful job all around and not just a tool for procing weakness in Voidwatch content.

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I would ask how that adjustment makes SCH more useful all around. I also would ask you to question the wisdom of making yet another endgame event where SCH lacks any spell procs. Many jobs were left out of Abyssea. You've added a new one to Voidwatch.

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

Regarding whether being able to use Helix spells starting at a lower level is right or wrong, we understand that it is possible to level up in Grounds of Valor and Abyssea with the help of other players, but we do not consider that standard procedure.

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I think it is pretty standard. While key spots in Abyssea parties should not be considered the norm for leveling up, you cannot deny that standard parties are without a doubt the least used method of the three. I can't understand making an adjustment that really isn't that helpful based on a fairly underutilized form of leveling.

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

Instead of shortening the time in between damage dealt over time, we would like to establish that damage is dealt every 10 seconds.

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Even slower tics? You have to increase the damage and duration then. Is the 90 second duration included in the Dark Arts bonus? Will it be available to /SCH jobs as well? You seem to be creating more problems with Helices than actually making them better for Scholars.

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Originally Posted by Mocchi

This is a bit off-topic, but regarding the effects of "Adloquium," we decided not to adjust its base stats. We recommend increasing its effects by adjusting equipped gear.

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How? No gear in the game adjusts the effect, only the duration. Or are you saying that Enhancing Skill now affects potency?

Edit!!
Don't think about adding this gear. Do it!

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Edit:

Yup, edited very quickly to reflect what they meant. Poor community reps almost got schooled by a horde of angry Scholars who are acting like they just lost Tenure.

Actually, I think Tenure should be a new Scholar ability of some sort.

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I have a feeling you are about to get it a lot worse than Bayohne.

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Considering these changes, although it may take longer to finalize, some jobs will require fundamental overhaul instead of minor adjustments.

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But not THF.

If the aim of subbable helix spells is to make SCH useful in an unspecified upcoming event then I ask that you wait until that event is introduced to make the helix adjustments. At least I could continue to participate in Voidwatch on Scholar for a while. The idea that something no one here likes is going to be great someday doesn't leave me any more optimistic than Libra, Animus and Adloquium that could have been useful in 2007 but not today. SE's timing is severely off on SCH.

Adloquium potency based on gear is discouraging. Maybe because of the 5 million gil price tag that will accompany its Voidwatch 0.01% drop rate, or if rare/ex the fact that the first time my group sees it will probably be when someone in my LS who's never actually used an MP bar opens his pyxis. Either that or when it shows up in mine it won't fit in my 80/80 SCH gobbie bag. I'd be elated if it just scaled with enhancing magic.

This logic that lower level helices are geared toward "standard" leveling practices is backwards. Instead of looking at how people actually play and designing SCH to fit it, you're making development choices around the way we somehow "should" be doing it but few people actually do. I get that this has been standard SE practice for a multitude of jobs, but it's getting ridiculous on SCH.

Yesterday I was scared of new CoP style level cap content. Now I'm scared of a job overhaul that is designed to fit us very well into the CoP era of partying. I shudder to think what's coming tomorrow - I'm going to have nightmares about using yellow liquids on Mammets while capped at level 20 for my SCH 96 solo limit break.

At least I will be able to helix them.

If these things are supposed to make SCH more desirable in the future, then the only possible course I can see is SE nerfing the ever-loving-shit out of all the other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

If these things are supposed to make SCH more desirable in the future, then the only possible course I can see is SE nerfing the ever-loving-shit out of all the other jobs.

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Or the NMs that make buffs useless or even harmful. I can't wait for my 50/tic 2.5 minute regen to be dispelgad or stolen. At least I won't be silenced, zombied, plagued, poisoned and petrified while reapplying it.

Just a small thing about Modus Veritas...

Couldn't you (the dev team) just make the first Modus Veritas used on a target 100% acc for landing, then any other MV used on said target has the current acc. check? It's near impossible to stagger anything in voidwatch; and even with the 3min recast that's duo, this really won't be too much help if it just keeps missing.

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Originally Posted by Mizuharu

Just a small thing about Modus Veritas...

Couldn't you (the dev team) just make the first Modus Veritas used on a target 100% acc for landing, then any other MV used on said target has the current acc. check? It's near impossible to stagger anything in voidwatch; and even with the 3min recast that's duo, this really won't be too much help if it just keeps missing.

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Or an even better option. A second SCH in any group is so rare... I would have no qualms what-so-ever if Modus just didn't stack anymore. That simple. Give us back the accuracy but get rid of the multiplicative bonus. Seriously, it isn't used anymore.

Thanks Bayohne. Mocchi's clarification offers a better insight on the development team's perspective. I don't know if I agree with them, but at least now I can understand better that they're doing.

As for Adloquium it's a bit of a shame it will be enhanced through gear and not through Stratagems (inventory+1? No thanks! ; ; ) but I guess that's better than nothing :)

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Thanks Bayohne. Mocchi's clarification offers a better insight on the development team's perspective. I don't know if I agree with them, but at least now I can understand better that they're doing.

As for Adloquium it's a bit of a shame it will be enhanced through gear and not through Stratagems (inventory+1? No thanks! ; ; ) but I guess that's better than nothing :)

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Taking up inventory to increase a Regain effect is fine. Depending on how high it goes it could be one of the deciders on if a SCH actually becomes useful in a party situation.

Yes yes, I agree. It's just that I have some sort of obsessive compulsive disease when it comes to inventory, and often I prefer a single generic piece that offers a performance of 8 (on a scale from 1 to 10) compared to 3 specific items that grant me a performance of 10 but in specific field.
I know that's not the way high-end players are supposed to behave, but when possible I always try to do that.

Of course in the end, as I mentioned before, I can only welcome an enhancement to Adloquium, even if it comes in the form of gear and not a JA/Stratagem.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We miss Camate, Bayohne!

Man... :(

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Um.. did something happen to Camate? ):
Hope he is still around, his posts are funny ^^

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Fixed! Man, you guys are callin' me out non-stop today. Spelled scholar wrong, Bayohne! I've never seen Adloquium-enhancing gear, Bayohne! We miss Camate, Bayohne!

Man... :(

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You need the marbolo avatar before you'll be taken seriously around here.

You with the moogle...just not working.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Yes yes, I agree. It's just that I have some sort of obsessive compulsive disease when it comes to inventory, and often I prefer a single generic piece that offers a performance of 8 (on a scale from 1 to 10) compared to 3 specific items that grant me a performance of 10 but in specific field.

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That isn't OCD, that is just efficient and often much more accepted nowadays given the inventory issue.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Yes yes, I agree. It's just that I have some sort of obsessive compulsive disease when it comes to inventory, and often I prefer a single generic piece that offers a performance of 8 (on a scale from 1 to 10) compared to 3 specific items that grant me a performance of 10 but in specific field.
I know that's not the way high-end players are supposed to behave, but when possible I always try to do that.

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I wish I had that disorder, I have the opposite one which compels me to carry around all 4 of the "Enhances Stoneskin" items. ... >_<

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Originally Posted by Raksha

I wish I had that disorder, I have the opposite one which compels me to carry around all 4 of the "Enhances Stoneskin" items. ... >_<

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Me too, along with eight obis, 16 staves, blah blah. It's already gotten to the point where SCH not only has to decide between optimizations based on available strategems (which is enough, imo) but also based on what gear we care to fit in our bag. It seems like the plan is to only make this worse, unless the Adloquium gear introduction comes with another gobbie bag quest.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

Me too, along with eight obis, 16 staves, blah blah.

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I don't think getting an extra 120 or so HP from Stoneskin is a good gear choice, but the eight obis and the staves are pretty much neccisary to be fully effective.

Of course, I'm just repeating this, but maybe this time we'll get it.

The Elemental Obi need to be combined. The quest for this should be easy.

The elemental staves should at least be combined by element (combine the Accuracy, Damage, and maybe the avatar perp) in a quest for each. Plus side if they also combine after that by skillchain parings like Fusion, Fragmentation, Gravitation, and Distortion. After this they should combined for Light and Darkness staves, and then to a single staff, through increasingly harder and harder quests.

Thus, even if having a megastaff is only a dream for most people, most mages will only have to carry four or five staffs.

All 8 obis and 16 staves is a bit overkill, if you ask me. I really dont see much use for fire or water staves at all, nor do I see much use for the macc staves. (At least not enough use to justify building them).

The last time I cast a fire spell for damage and not procs was Bomb Queen.

There's no real need to have all 8 obis in inventory at the same time either. 16 staves is beyond overkill.

Extra HP on stoneskin is a good gear choice... bar the earring.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

There's no real need to have all 8 obis in inventory at the same time either. 16 staves is beyond overkill.

Extra HP on stoneskin is a good gear choice... bar the earring.

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really? so you are going to limit your scholar's potential by not having every obi?

and i dont know where your getting 16 staves from the max my scholar has on at a time is 9 possibly 10

although i do agree the acc staves are pretty pointless as a scholar Ive never had a problem with acc the mab ones should do just fine for anyone or regular HQ

to be honest any scholar whose worth his or her grimoire would honestly have all the obis or work towards it since they are the best to have for sch atm and quite easy to obtain just time consuming.

At a minimum, all scholars should have or be working towards Light, Dark, Ice, and Thunder obi as we are just as subject to the spell damage variations that Black Mages are. The only spells that didn't work like that were their AM2 spells, which everyone hopes we can match with Helix 2.

I never did crunch the numbers personally, but since helixes always take the full weather bonuses, are they affected more by the elemental obi (and by extension Twilight Cape) or a high INT piece?

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Originally Posted by Delvish

At a minimum, all scholars should have or be working towards Light, Dark, Ice, and Thunder obi as we are just as subject to the spell damage variations that Black Mages are. The only spells that didn't work like that were their AM2 spells, which everyone hopes we can match with Helix 2.

I never did crunch the numbers personally, but since helixes always take the full weather bonuses, are they affected more by the elemental obi (and by extension Twilight Cape) or a high INT piece?

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I'm pretty sure obi has no effect, but the cape should. Dunno if anyone has actually posted testing. I use INT belt for my helixes.

As for obis I carry dark/light/ice/thunder/wind (wind because it took too long for us to get blizz5).

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Originally Posted by Jamesy

really? so you are going to limit your scholar's potential by not having every obi?

and i dont know where your getting 16 staves from the max my scholar has on at a time is 9 possibly 10

although i do agree the acc staves are pretty pointless as a scholar Ive never had a problem with acc the mab ones should do just fine for anyone or regular HQ

to be honest any scholar whose worth his or her grimoire would honestly have all the obis or work towards it since they are the best to have for sch atm and quite easy to obtain just time consuming.

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I didn't say don't have the obis, but I really don't feel you need all 8 of them in your immediate inventory at one time. Satchel them out as necessary. 16 staves was in response to Merton.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

I don't think getting an extra 120 or so HP from Stoneskin is a good gear choice, but the eight obis and the staves are pretty much neccisary to be fully effective.

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I disagree. I cannot remember the last time I needed Stone or Fire nukes outside of procs. I think it would be a much wiser choice to carry around the extra stoneskin items then those two obis. You are no less effective. Of course you are not maximizing your potential damage (although it is unlikely you will be using those spells) but you can say the same for not maximizing your stoneskins.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The Elemental Obi need to be combined. The quest for this should be easy.

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This I can agree with. My inventory on SCH is out of control. I've stopped carrying an hMP set. I just don't have room for it.

My inventory in general is being stretched thin with 7 jobs that are all well or fairly well geared.

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Originally Posted by Mayoyama

Um.. did something happen to Camate? ):
Hope he is still around, his posts are funny ^^

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Aw thanks! Nothing happened to me and I am still here^^ Was on a work trip for the week :)

Missed you Camate! WB /o/

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Originally Posted by Camate

Aw thanks! Nothing happened to me and I am still here^^ Was on a work trip for the week :)

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Anywhere nice?
Sorry, not trying to derail the thread >.>

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Originally Posted by Camate

Aw thanks! Nothing happened to me and I am still here^^ Was on a work trip for the week :)

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I wanna breed your children *_x


I mean... Welcome back!!! °_°'''

/sch wee.43515

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Originally Posted by Camate

Aw thanks! Nothing happened to me and I am still here^^ Was on a work trip for the week :)

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Good to hear ^^

Although I think Bayohne was more than a bit upset that we were all calling him out on stuff and were wanting to see the posts from you >.> lol

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Fixed! Man, you guys are callin' me out non-stop today. Spelled scholar wrong, Bayohne! I've never seen Adloquium-enhancing gear, Bayohne! We miss Camate, Bayohne!

Man... :(

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Anywhere nice?
Sorry, not trying to derail the thread >.>

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Austin, Texas for Game Developers Conference Online. The BBQ was out of this world! lol

Bayohne was calling me saying he missed me too! Couldn't handle the FFXI forum pressure I guess...

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Originally Posted by Camate

Austin, Texas for Game Developers Conference Online. The BBQ was out of this world! lol

Bayohne was calling me saying me missed me too! Couldn't handle the FFXI forum pressure I guess...

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Well, we did give him some grief to test his mettle :D