Paladin: Possibilities

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Here are a few suggestions.

Enmity Cap (possible fix)
New Ability Champion
While under this effect (equal to composure in recast and duration) each JA ability, attack or spell directly targeted on a claimed enemy reduces hate pool of others on it's hate list except the player with champion active. If multiple champions are active then the effects are multiplied but each paladin reduces the hate of each other equally in the enemies hate pool as well as others.

Tank damage mitigation and effectiveness.
May add effect counterbash to shield blocking (instead of successful block a counterbash may activate instead) or fix reprisal to be equivalent to counterstance in duration allowing reflected damage for longer.

I like the idea for cover like the OP mentioned but instead of making it a trait increase durations or decrease recast to make it user applied. To avoid balance issues this should overwrite shadows because while under this effect the player uncovers their real position to cover others.

Added durability from cheap shot attacks.
New Trait Safeguard, Divine Intervention, Lifeguard or Second Chance,
If total hp is over 50% deathblows from critical damage and instant death can result in HP dropping to 1 instead of a K.O.

That about sums it up..

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I'll have to mull over most of this post but what caught my eye was the mention of making cover and utsusemi conflict. It's pretty interesting to say the least. Cover really shouldn't work with shadows because you, as the paladin, literally have to be between the enemy and the player as an actual physical block against the attack. Shadows taking the hit doesn't make sense as the attack is aimed at a different person, it just hits the paladin. Anyway, it gave me a few ideas to toy around with.

The counterstance thing gives me a bit to think about as well.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

Can you give me on reason that pld should be the best tank that isn't based on what you want? The numbers are all that matters because the numbers are what makes the game go round. Sorry if you don't like it that's just how it is.

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That argument is tiring and oh so wrong. Yes, it's how it is. How is that an argument, for anything? Welcome to the tautology club. You just said what you said.

It's about what can be and what should be. Why shouldn't we ask for things to be how we want them? Isn't that the entire purpose of feedback? And SE acted on it too in the past, in fact quite a lot. If players never said anything, they wouldn't have adjusted anything at all. I dare you to point out one update in which they didn't add/fix anything suggested by players.

A reason that isn't based on what I want? Because from a role-playing aspect, a paladin is always a knight that focuses on defense more than offense. In fact, I'll go so far as to say PLD is the only (from a role-playing aspect) defensive class in the game, meant to be able to take damage. To a lesser degree, WAR and MNK would also qualify (not because of Counter or Evasion, but because of Defense/Defender and high HP/VIT/Chakra). And in addition to that, it has lots of native hate tools, even JAs that amplify enmity. Put both those things together and you see that PLD was clearly meant to be a tank. If those things don't make it a good tank, then it's a waste of a job, because that's what it was designed to do. Or do you think that's the intention of SE? To make PLD a town job, because of their shiny armor?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

A reason that isn't based on what I want? Because from a role-playing aspect, a paladin is always a knight that focuses on defense more than offense. In fact, I'll go so far as to say PLD is the only (from a role-playing aspect) defensive class in the game, meant to be able to take damage. To a lesser degree, WAR and MNK would also qualify (not because of Counter or Evasion, but because of Defense/Defender and high HP/VIT/Chakra). And in addition to that, it has lots of native hate tools, even JAs that amplify enmity. Put both those things together and you see that PLD was clearly meant to be a tank. If those things don't make it a good tank, then it's a waste of a job, because that's what it was designed to do. Or do you think that's the intention of SE? To make PLD a town job, because of their shiny armor?

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Anyone wanting to put up a "counter-argument" should please, please, PLEASE, read this paragraph over and over and over and over... and over and over... and over and over.

Thank you.

Just increasing the enmity cap won't do amything as long as they keep adding mobs that can reset hate a will. What they need is a way to keep emnity high be it though a dmg buff or adding pld only spells that have the same emnity as the old low recast high enmity spells that were nerfed from /rdm. That way plds could save the hate spike JAs for after a hate reset.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

"Paladin" is a Tank Class (or has the ability to become one) in nearly every single RPG out there.

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And what of it?

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At this current moment, PLD fails in all 3 aspects: As a Tank as a Healer or as a Melee. Face the facts.

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I am facing the facts I have been for a long time. You on the other hand need to learn how the game works.

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It's not what I want, it just common sense.

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It is not common sense to completely overhaul how the game works cause you want an inferior job to be better.

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Originally Posted by Mrbeansman

And what of it?



I am facing the facts I have been for a long time. You on the other hand need to learn how the game works.



It is not common sense to completely overhaul how the game works cause you want an inferior job to be better.

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Do you intend to actually contribute something to this thread? You're typing an awful lot of words so far without saying a thing. In case you haven't noticed, this isn't the BlueGartr forum where you can be a d-bag for the sake of being one. If you don't care for the solutions offered here, where are YOUR solutions? Don't bother answering, because you don't have any solutions. My suspicions are that you haven't ever unlocked Paladin and that you benefit from the job's exclusion (you're too much of a coward to list your jobs, so I cannot guess how you benefit).

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Originally Posted by Hayward

If you don't care for the solutions offered here, where are YOUR solutions? Don't bother answering, because you don't have any solutions. My suspicions are that you haven't ever unlocked Paladin and that you benefit from the job's exclusion (you're too much of a coward to list your jobs, so I cannot guess how you benefit).

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Can I get an "Amen" brotha.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

A reason that isn't based on what I want? Because from a role-playing aspect, a paladin is always a knight that focuses on defense more than offense. In fact, I'll go so far as to say PLD is the only (from a role-playing aspect) defensive class in the game, meant to be able to take damage. To a lesser degree, WAR and MNK would also qualify (not because of Counter or Evasion, but because of Defense/Defender and high HP/VIT/Chakra). And in addition to that, it has lots of native hate tools, even JAs that amplify enmity. Put both those things together and you see that PLD was clearly meant to be a tank. If those things don't make it a good tank, then it's a waste of a job, because that's what it was designed to do. Or do you think that's the intention of SE? To make PLD a town job, because of their shiny armor?

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I personally find this hilarious.

Red Mage has been using this argument for a long, long time, even longer than any other job and it has got them nowhere.

Summoner was in the same boat as Red Mage (and in a way still is until 75), and they clammored just as loudly (until 75).

Scholar, now that they're in full identity-crisis mode, are in the same boat as Red Mage since they are literally a White Mage and Black Mage wrapped into one and specifically meant to compete with the roles of those jobs instead of having it's own niche.

And now Paladins finally woke up and smelled the coffee, and want to use the same exact argument in that "this is what we're supposed to do"?

Allow me to be the first to say, this entire argument will collapse right on top of you. Red Mages and Summoners had to accept the reality that the game does not follow the history nor the lore behind them and Square will not take the steps to change that. So I have to say what literally thousands have said to them and say "deal with it".

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Do you intend to actually contribute something to this thread? You're typing an awful lot of words so far without saying a thing. In case you haven't noticed, this isn't the BlueGartr forum where you can be a d-bag for the sake of being one. If you don't care for the solutions offered here, where are YOUR solutions? Don't bother answering, because you don't have any solutions. My suspicions are that you haven't ever unlocked Paladin and that you benefit from the job's exclusion (you're too much of a coward to list your jobs, so I cannot guess how you benefit).

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http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Quetzalcoatl/Mrbeansman

You seem to think I hate pld and never want it to be viable. If SE can make pld a good tank without breaking other aspects of the game I say go for it. That said the only options to fix pld atm require changing the game around it which should never be an option. A lot of people in this thread seem to feel entitled to take whatever they want from other jobs in the name of making pld "THE" tank job.

PS I'm not trying to be a d-bag I'm trying to be a realist.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

This was the nineteenth post you made in this thread.

Let's track down where you ever said anything about adding anything, especially anything about native fencer, impetus, or berserk. Oh, if you want to "tl:dr" I can assure you, you never posted about a single one of those things in this entire thread. *Begins copying and pasting*

First Post

Doesn't add anything.

Second Post

Doesn't add anything.

Third post

Not a bad post but it still lacks any form of contribution or idea forming.

Fourth post

Doesn't add anything.

Fifth post

Doesn't add anything

Sixth post

Doesn't add anything.

Seventh post

Doesn't add anything.

Eighth Post


Doesn't add anything.

This is where I interject. 8 posts of non-contributions, I respond directly to you about how you're not contributing at all.

Ninth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Tenth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Eleventh Post

Doesn't add anything.

Twelfth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Thirteenth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Fourteenth Post

All that is said is that you want an offensive buff, while giving no ideas. Thus, doesn't add anything.

Up to 15 posts already?

Doesn't add anything.

Sixteenth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Seventeenth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Eighteenth Post

Doesn't add anything.

Guess what post came next?

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Huh. I guess I confused this thread with one of the five freaking hundred (exaggeration) other threads on Paladin that I've responded to. After a while, it does get incredibly tiring of making what you deem "constructive" responses because people will just create a new thread the next day anyways and any effort I expended writing a nice, thoughtful suggestion would be for naught.

If it hasn't been made clear already, I can't stand repeating myself. With that said, I'm also not even required to post my own ideas for Paladin when discussing yours. I'll tell you the same thing I told Akujima in his thread. If you want to post a thesis, you have to be prepared to defend it from criticism. If your idea has holes, people will point out those holes. If your idea has flaws, people will take issue with the flaws. If your idea is closed minded (it is), people will be less likely to pay you an open mind when considering it.

A complete overhaul of the game's mechanics affects every single job in the game, not just Paladin. You say "Oh, well, it may be a slight DD nerf but really that's okay because they're too strong anyways". That doesn't mean it's right to ostracize each of the other 19 jobs in the game for the sake of buffing Paladin in such a way that, even then, only some of the game's Paladins would actually be happier.

You need to learn to take and respond to criticism. All I've seen from you is rage, "Where is your argument????", "Stop Flaming", and "You're not contributing anything". I don't need to present an alternative in order to dislike your idea and post contrary to it. If I say you're wrong, you need to either accept that and change your presentation or deny that and show me why you're right. That's how a discussion works.

And before I get called out for "Being happy that Paladin is excluded", Hayward should recognize my name. I am most definitely an old school Paladin, and I love the job. In fact, I love it so much that I actually care when people offer really freaking bad suggestions for it.