Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Pretty much the worst job I guess for this is GEO, because your GEO spells earn you basically no contribution.

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NukeMoar.jpg

You can also rack up points by using -Ra spells on normal mobs with either a PLD supertanking mobs or nearby Roots/Rocks. /SCH is a little tough to use for Dark Arts/Addendum: Black + Manifestation Sleep, but it gets the job done as far as personal crowd control goes (which is why I hope GEO gets a bump in Enfeebling skill in the future and their own line of -Ra Enfeebles like Sleepra, Bindra and Breakra).

And usually since I don't get many invites for Reives on my GEO, I just stack Indi-Refresh and Geo-Acumen onto myself. Either that or when I can get my club capped and my GEO melee gear figured out, I'll go whack on them at some point

Do waltzes net you similar points as cure spells?

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This has been around since Campaign came out years ago

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Expect this to follow a very similar fate.

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This has been around since Campaign came out years ago

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Expect this to follow a very similar fate.

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I don't recall there being much chatter over this in campaign....but then again, I wasn't using SMN for it much until after everyone quit doing it. If anything, I think it was actually embraced...at least it was in my circle of friends. I actually meleed a lot on BLM in the early days. Man, that was so much fun...making chains, bursting on them, eating lots of dirt....getting back on my feet and running to renew tags (hoping to not get raped by the boss's AOE at the NPC). We just raked in the xp/notes, rarely ever sticking to the roles our jobs were "intended" to play....good times.

You've stated that you have a melee job. You don't appear interested in playing SMN main yourself. So why not team up with these SMN gangs instead of trying to work against them? You do your dd thing, they do their heal thing, you get sweet dd bayld, they get okay bp bayld, you don't have to fight for overlapping niches.

Instead of immediately jumping to 'something needs to be taken away from someone', why not try to find compromises where both can equally exist. A number of suggestions have been made to help improve your reward gain outside cure spam. Also, why not join the fun instead of poo-pooing on it and sub SMN to your WHM or SCH? You can then be more versatile and use moves like Whispering Wind and Spring Water to heal people outside your party as well as help remove annoyances like Blackout between your preferred cure rotation. It's not a traditional sub, but this expansion has tried to push people to new ideas, so why not? And as a final suggestion, I know melee isn't what you may want to do on a mage class (and I do feel and share frustration there), but its what SE wants players in general doing in reives.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

However, separate from this rule, evaluation will take place to estimate how much you accomplished the original goal.

Colonization reives’ main purpose is to clear the way of things that are obstructing colonization, so the goal would entail how much HP you cut off the obstacle. For lair reives, the goal entails how much HP you cut off the monster’s lair. Depending on how much HP you are able to damage these for, you will be able to receive a proportionate amount of experience points and bayld; however, if you are unable to damage their HP this will not be factored into your evaluation.

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Just curious, but what are you feelings towards Reive Unity effects? The bonuses such as those that fill health back up and grant stoneskin to everyone in the reive regardless of party. Should this be removed too since it could be seen as taking away from your potential healing points?

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Expect this to follow a very similar fate.

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People only stopped doing campaign when the rewards were no longer useful. As long as Bayld is needed Reive will remain intact.

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Also, why not join the fun instead of poo-pooing on it and sub SMN to your WHM or SCH? You can then be more versatile and use moves like Whispering Wind and Spring Water to heal people outside your party as well as help remove annoyances like Blackout between your preferred cure rotation. It's not a traditional sub, but

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There is irony somewhere in the fact /SMN is the original traditional subjob for WHM.

The OP, and people supporting the claim, are correct.

First, campaign worked differently. You reached a hard cap on exp, which at that point gave you half the same in allied notes. If you continued further, your allied notes approached the exp number, but didn't exceed it.

Also remember that, back then, battles gave significantly less. The rewards were buffed because SE heard us wanting campaign fixed and basically just poked around with a few easy updates.

Anyway, the only way to exceed the exp/allied notes was to recycle your tags. Turn them in, get new ones. Scholars and summoners were buffed at the same time. I know this because I would occasionally sch/thf, accession, flee, cure IV and watch everyone's mobs come chasing me because I'd just cured several thousand hp. Hate me, but it was fun. I wasn't capping exp or notes, I was just having fun.

What the OP is saying is that the others are exploiting (I use the term lightly, noone is cheating) a design, in the way that the two systems are different, and gaining more at the expense of everyone else. There is basically some total amount to be rewarded to participants and smn's are shoving taking the lion's share.

I don't really care, but to argue the point is silly.

don't think they are "taking the lion's share"--if that where the case, people wouldn't be getting great xp on the more durable, heavier hitting jobs, or on the lighterweight jobs if they change up their playstyle--even with the presence of SMN's in the reives.

SMN isn't simply preventing a bunch of other jobs from getting decent rewards...they may reduce one's potential rewards from curing only if they don't adapt and compensate for the competition, but that's not just SMN that can do that--it could just as easily been a group of people on the same jobs that simply came into direct competition for that one player's slice of the action. So, technically everyone may get a reduction simply because someone else steps in...that's not because it was job x, y , or z...it's because another player is also doing what you were relying solely on for your rewards. That's the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket.

There is a flip side to this as well. It creates the possibility of enhancing everyone else's rewards, simply by the virtue of increasing efficiency. If people would really analyze this, they might find that by having other people assisting like this (whether its a couple SMN's or a band of happy WHM's), it frees people up to do other things they otherwise might not be able to, because they're stuck solely on that one detail--that could be any support capacity...haste/refresh cycles, curing, stunning--the point is you have less pressure to do this one thing, freeing you up to expand your contribution to the group.

There are other things that can be done for credit in reives, just like there was in all the other similar events that came before it. If you are letting yourself get pigeonholed as a one-trick pony, this is potentially going to happen to you in any event like this. All it takes is someone else stepping in to do what you are doing, regardless of the job--it can even be the same main job, but a different subjob, or simply different gearing that is allowing them to out-perform you in some way, and your usefulness gets diminished. This is true for a tank, a DD, a healer, a kiter--any job can be affected in this way.

We've seen this same type of disparity amongst players with all those other events in the past. For whatever reason, people figured out they couldn't turn big numbers doing things the way they expected to on a given job, so they figured out a better way to participate. What some are either refusing to acknowledge (or otherwise not grasping) is that SMN is being FORCED into being more or less a one-trick pony in this event. At least other jobs have reasonable means to still get decent rewards....SMN is not being afforded that luxury. Sure, it can try to go-balls-to-the-wall with it's staff and all...but it is at considerably more risk than other jobs when a mob decides to turn on them. The other mage jobs are simply natively designed for handling such situations much better than SMN--it's not just a difference of gear options, some have native traits/abilities/spells that afford them more safety when things get ugly. Can you really blame them for taking advantage of the one thing they can really count on to get decent rewards in this event?

Consider this: how many undead were slaughtered unmercifully with the cure bug?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I-X7a7AONI
Now, THAT was broken, and was appropriately fixed.

There are quite a few reives where I seem to get just awful reward, besides turning it in. So this is actually happening. Some flaw in the design allows for it.

Yeah whm could spend the entire time subtargeting and looking for people to cure, but all a summoner needs to do is see an aoe go off in the group and instantly dispatch garuda.

I don't blame the smn's for doing this. I want pld/dnc to campaign because it was the god of campaign, but anyone saying the OP is wrong are actually wrong themselves. Now, like others have said, players who are bothered by it could level summoner or sub summoner etc etc, and there's nothing wrong with that notion.