More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

I never post on forums and generally keep to myself when it comes to this game and "lolz," but I just wanted to add my two cents to this nerf business.

This is just another instance of a total disrespect to their entire player base. I know I am not saying anything new here at this point, but the laziness of this development team astounds me to no end. "We need balance, time to ratchet back damage." Really? Thats the best you can all come up with? You should be ashamed of yourselves. If you felt WAR and MNK did too much damage then why not add CONTENT to make it useful?! OR, maybe raise the stats on other jobs to put them on a similar level? I'd really like to hear the rationale over this one.

I don't understand why people whine and complain about a WS being overpowered--is having a party member with a ridiculously powerful WS HURTING you in any way shape or form? There is no legitimate PvP in this game, so whats the source of your complaint? Let me tell you what you're crusading against. So, you're a THF working on a Twashtar? I bet you REALLY hate the fact that the Ukon WAR that's helping you is killing Glavoid to get YOUR drops too quickly. That would grind my gears, too. You wanna do big damage too? Ok, pass on the Twashtar and get an Ukon. Logical. The challenge is out of this game, and its not because WAR and MNK do too much damage.

I personally want to thank you, Square-Enix, for robbing me of my time and hard earned money. You've successfully made my past 8 months or so in this game a complete and utter waste. You are 100% out of touch with your player base, and you are KIDDING yourselves if you think you have the slightest idea of what we want.

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lol you're fucking stupid.

To wit: Yes, someone with a WS that powerful IS essentially hurting anyone that's not a WAR with Ukonvasara.

If I want damage and the target is a very sturdy high-level NM, why the hell would I invite anything else given the option? It turns the game into LOL WARRIOR SPAM GGNORE. Remember how SAM and DRK were literally the only endgame DD in the game pre-abyssea? Let's go back to those days except WAR instead of DRK!

Do you failures really not see the issue with Ukko's Fury doing 5-6k damage vs targets that other jobs are lucky to break 3k on? Or why it would be utterly catastrophic to give every job an Ukko's Fury equivalent WS?

I keep hearing that WAR is overpowered, which made me think. Is it? So I would like to ask this question, if you put WAR up head to head with every other job, would he win them all? Would he win any?

So lets do this....Put WAR up against SAM, lock their sub-jobs and give them 100,000 hp to take luck mostly out of the equation. Who wins? Now WAR vs NIN, WAR vs THF, WAR vs RDM, WAR vs BLK...ect, ect all the way down the line.

Now if WAR is as OP as advertised then he will win them all, right?

So, which ones does WAR win?

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

lol you're fucking stupid.

To wit: Yes, someone with a WS that powerful IS essentially hurting anyone that's not a WAR with Ukonvasara.

If I want damage and the target is a very sturdy high-level NM, why the hell would I invite anything else given the option? It turns the game into LOL WARRIOR SPAM GGNORE. Remember how SAM and DRK were literally the only endgame DD in the game pre-abyssea? Let's go back to those days except WAR instead of DRK!

Do you failures really not see the issue with Ukko's Fury doing 5-6k damage vs targets that other jobs are lucky to break 3k on? Or why it would be utterly catastrophic to give every job an Ukko's Fury equivalent WS?

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Fucking stupid eh? When that's you're opening line, drivel is almost sure to follow.

Well, let's see how you feel when you're part of the large majority that are affected by this. You're a short sighted fool. People are not just up in arms because because there is a nerf, it goes well beyond that. Square-Enix's solution to a poor balanced game has ALWAYS been to take the thing that people complain about being the most "broken" and pull it so far back that the downgrade itself creates a greater inbalance. Remember Ranger? Ninja? Red Mage?

Where we find ourselves right now is what the devs allowed the game to be for so long, and people have a right to be angry. Instead of being creative and doing a true REBALANCE, they're taking the lazy way out again, and doing you, as a paying customer, a disservice. You do realize that they've effectively replaced an overpowered WAR with an overpowered SAM, correct? Vsmite MNKs will become Spharai MNKs. What did they fix? I guess you enjoy throwing money away. I'm the stupid one though. Forgive me for being among the group that rather see additional CONTENT, which is a better way to serve your customer base, and create balance.
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I also don't buy the whole "If I want damage why would I invite anything else blahblahblah" argument, simply because of the fact we're not talking about how the game used to be. You're inviting jobs for procs in abyssea and VW. What NM exists outside of these that you NEED big damage on? Exactly. When you low man seals are you taking WARs? Probably not--you're taking BLM/BRD, NIN (or THF/NIN), a WHM, BLU, and a BRD. When youre doing Voidwatch are you ONLY inviting WARs? Probably not. Let's not even get on the subject of job versatility. If someone is going to complain that they can't enjoy content because they're DRG only then they have more problems than that alone.

You'll get no disagreement from me if you told me WAR is overpowered. I'll politely disagree, however, if you try to sell me on this being a legitimate solution. History tells you that you're wrong.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm taking my Masamune and maxing Shoha.

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Originally Posted by Chaz

So, which ones does WAR win?

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Not sure what your point was? How is this in any way relevant to the topic?

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

Fucking stupid eh? When that's you're opening line, drivel is almost sure to follow.

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Not as often as people think. People like to take a defensive stance as soon as they get personally attacked which often leads to lapses in judgment.

You're correct in most of what you're saying, mostly in that this nerf won't fix anything. However, you still don't have all of your facts right. WAR do get invited over others, constantly, and usually because of their Ukonvasara. Even in VW, where it's beneficial to have as many jobs as possible, WAR will still have higher priority when it comes to DDs, sometimes there'll even be 3 or 4 of them, also solely due to Ukonvasara. And I can tell you right now, if there wasn't a need to proc, there'd be 10 of them. And sure, beginner parties will often want a NIN as a tank/DD for seal parties, however there's hardly any mob that can't be efficiently tanked/held by a WAR. If it comes to job choices for seal parties, you either take THF or WAR (or both). MNK is also pretty good, if you use it to DD and don't come /NIN.

WAR does have a huge leading role atm, one that other jobs cannot compare to. Again, my only beef with SE is for them taking so long to get around to doing this. This is how the WS should have been since day one. This move I can't really agree with, but I'd hate to be in their situation, because any other fix I could think of would involve gimping WAR itself (like the Blood Rage nerf), which would only hurt non-Ukonvasara WARs and even other players in the party as well. Unless you count the "fix" to buff every other DD to the same level, which I personally dislike even more.

My post was removed or something... All I had said was this update might not be too bad for non Ukkos users, depending on the buffs to Double Attack and Critical Attack Bonus.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

WAR does have a huge leading role atm, one that other jobs cannot compare to. Again, my only beef with SE is for them taking so long to get around to doing this. This is how the WS should have been since day one.

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You're suggesting that they'd balance the game prior to releasing several levels, many geared toward abyssea content and lately, more geared toward VW. From the perspective of a developer, it makes little sense to try and balance some aspect of the game given the fact that it will be completely different 3 months down the road.

It would be about as easy to maintain balance throughout that time as it is to change a wheel on a moving vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Vazerus

My post was removed or something... All I had said was this update might not be too bad for non Ukkos users, depending on the buffs to Double Attack and Critical Attack Bonus.

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Double Attack is +2% and critical attack bonus is Tier 3, which is +3%. This was tested on the Test server by Byrth before SE ninja removed both in an update.

BR being up 20% of the time was a +4% Critical damage boost overall for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

You're suggesting that they'd balance the game prior to releasing several levels, many geared toward abyssea content and lately, more geared toward VW. From the perspective of a developer, it makes little sense to try and balance some aspect of the game given the fact that it will be completely different 3 months down the road.

It would be about as easy to maintain balance throughout that time as it is to change a wheel on a moving vehicle.

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The question remains if the critical hit rate of both was the problem why did it take them over a year to realize this? I can live with UF being nerfed (I'm still going to complain about it, who likes being nerfed) but VS is especially perplexing because it was only roughly 5% above CDC/Hi. Having restraint halved and UF cut wasn't bad enough? They got to nerf BR too, which helped buff the pt's damage? Like I said earlier, all this does is make everyone deal less damage. It hasn't fixed any issues. People aren't going to start clamoring for more pups in VW.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Not sure what your point was? How is this in any way relevant to the topic?

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Completely relevant. If WAR is overpowered compared to every other job, it would win against every job hands down. And you didn't answer. Don't worry, its ok, I'd be scared to answer if I was you too.

PVP argument is stupid, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Originalkord

Fucking stupid eh? When that's you're opening line, drivel is almost sure to follow.

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I like how you open with this, then proceed to answer what you consider drivel. What does that make your response...?

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Well, let's see how you feel when you're part of the large majority that are affected by this. You're a short sighted fool. People are not just up in arms because because there is a nerf, it goes well beyond that. Square-Enix's solution to a poor balanced game has ALWAYS been to take the thing that people complain about being the most "broken" and pull it so far back that the downgrade itself creates a greater inbalance. Remember Ranger? Ninja? Red Mage?

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You just took an arrow to the knee by mentioning Ranger. Ranger was RIDICULOUSLY BROKEN before they FIXED it. Did they over-nerf it? Yeah, sure they did. But there's absolutely no denying that RNG was by an insurmountable margin the only relevant endgame DD, period.

The only Ninja nerf I can think of was "lose enmity when shadows are hit" which turned out to be GAMEBREAKING amirite?!

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Where we find ourselves right now is what the devs allowed the game to be for so long, and people have a right to be angry. Instead of being creative and doing a true REBALANCE, they're taking the lazy way out again, and doing you, as a paying customer, a disservice. You do realize that they've effectively replaced an overpowered WAR with an overpowered SAM, correct? Vsmite MNKs will become Spharai MNKs. What did they fix? I guess you enjoy throwing money away. I'm the stupid one though. Forgive me for being among the group that rather see additional CONTENT, which is a better way to serve your customer base, and create balance.

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1. Balance doesn't just involve making jobs better. Balance means making everything more equal. Which means things WILL sometimes need to be toned down, that's just a fact.

2. I don't see how changing the subject to Samurais is in any way relevant.

3. Throwing money away? OH NO you're right this nerf's fallout will end up deleting my character and deleveling all your jobs to 10

4. How does new content "create balance"? Voidwatch did a little bit toward it but even in Voidwatch, it's very common to see T3+ groups bring 3-4 Ukonvasara Warriors, because they're so vastly superior to basically every other DD in the game. This is a fact. The only way "new content" can alter balance is by making different shit overpowered, and in this case they'd have to make content that nerfs the hell out of critical hits - which would bring DRK and SAM back to the forefront with the most powerful non-crit WS. Which ISN'T BALANCE, EITHER.

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I also don't buy the whole "If I want damage why would I invite anything else blahblahblah" argument, simply because of the fact we're not talking about how the game used to be. You're inviting jobs for procs in abyssea and VW. What NM exists outside of these that you NEED big damage on? Exactly. When you low man seals are you taking WARs? Probably not--you're taking BLM/BRD, NIN (or THF/NIN), a WHM, BLU, and a BRD. When youre doing Voidwatch are you ONLY inviting WARs? Probably not. Let's not even get on the subject of job versatility. If someone is going to complain that they can't enjoy content because they're DRG only then they have more problems than that alone.

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I like how you use the irreparably unbalanced Abyssea as part of your argument.

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You'll get no disagreement from me if you told me WAR is overpowered. I'll politely disagree, however, if you try to sell me on this being a legitimate solution. History tells you that you're wrong.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm taking my Masamune and maxing Shoha.

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So what would YOU do to nerf Warrior? Not nerf their bullshit-OP WS? Or would you nerf the Warrior itself to the point that Ukko's ISN'T overpowered anymore - in doing so making non-Ukonvasara WARs the most useless job in the game? Gimme a better solution than nerfing Ukko's and you'll have my attention. :|


Also: WRT the Blood Rage nerf, I think their issue with it is how a WAR cluster can not only crush things far too easily with Ukko spam, but also empower one another to an insane degree with timed BRs.