The best option they had was sticking to the original formula and making the bosses for the new levels more difficult. Before any details were announced, this is exactly what players were expecting and hoping for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoreis
Abyssea came out two years ago now? Yeah, right about then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
Bolded for emphasis. I completely agree that they should be able to perform well but the fact of the matter is, they aren't. Even the best players aren't making it to 100 with any sort of consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
I don't understand why people are still arguing for this. Its like if you played a basketball game and at the end of every quarter they added a random amount to your score. You could suck at the game and still come out with a win based on luck. You could destroy the other team, but not even come close in the total because of luck. It needs to be removed from the event.
SE has this thing about being wrong or something. Maybe they're just stubborn, but this event is worse than it used to be.
Nyzul Isle Uncharted information and feedback
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03-04-2012, 07:31 PMScribble
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03-04-2012, 09:04 PMAtoreisQuote:
Originally Posted by Scribble
Ppl still arguing because you are completely ignorant. You make it looks completely lucky based when its not. You need to clear at least 12 floors to beat 100 floor which is enough to block bad players. Being better and clearing more floors greatly increases your avg chance of reaching 100.
Ofc they not because it was suppose to be like that... Reaching floor 100 is a bonus for good players who can consistently reach floor 80. Its balanced with good drop rate and it will be even more improved with incoming changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribble
You completely ignored what I wrote. Making event like old Nyzul would require bad drop rate which is far worse than random floors because playing better in this case has not even small impact on chance to obtain the item when playing better with random floor jumps actually makes a difference. -
03-05-2012, 12:19 AMFupafighter
Lol exactly. If it were like old nyzle, the gear would be nerfed. Have you even looked at the stats on the 100 gear? Damn if you expect to be able to obtain it all in a month, your on drugs.
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03-05-2012, 12:22 AMFupafighter
Oh and it's THEIR freakin game. They can do what they want. And obviously most of us still enjoy it, except for the people that just keep complaining things are impossible when they haven't taken the time or energy to reach out and get it. Very sad what alot of the player base has come to.
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03-05-2012, 01:54 AMFrankReynolds
Luck = Skill.
the end. -
03-05-2012, 04:22 AMAtoreisThats trolling...Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
You need luck AND skill to reach floor 100 and group that on avg can clear more floors will on avg get to floor 100 more frequently.
Its like saying 5% Double attack and 15% double attack is the same because both will let you double attack sometimes. Sure but with 15%DA it will happen 3 times more often despite DA proc depends of luck.
Its the same here. The more skill you have the less luck you need to reach the target.
In old nyzul skill had nothing to do with chance to obtain an item. It was 100% luck if you got the drop or not. -
03-05-2012, 05:04 AMFrankReynolds
In this case, it would be like having 100% DA from gear, but a %90 chance that it will never proc.
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03-05-2012, 05:08 AMAtoreisIm sorry but what you are saying has no sense without taking the same drugs as you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
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03-05-2012, 05:11 AMFrankReynoldsIf your group has 100% success rate on clearing floors (this would be the 100% DA rate), you still have 90% chance that the RNG will screw you (90% chance that DA will not proc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoreis
On a side note, your original analogy about DA was dumb to begin with, and I never should have elaborated on it. -
03-05-2012, 05:38 AMKarbuncle*Wrong buzzer sound*Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
While they can do whatever they want, They're a company, and if they want to make money, They shouldn't act like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum. A game is only as good as its designers, and if the designers refuse to make the game enjoyable for the majority, it dies.
FFXIV.
I can count on 1 hand the number of people I've spoken with or seen Over BG, FFXIAH, and here that have actually said "I Enjoy the new Content being released".Quote:
And obviously most of us still enjoy it
One hand.
No, Most Everyone hates it, They hate Voidwatch's drop rates, they hate Neo-Nyzuls dumb luck. I'm not saying some don't enjoy it, But the overwhelming Majority of players hate the new content we're getting. I think the recent Nyzul announcement was the closest thing to happy people have felt in a FFXI update for years.
The only reason most of us still play is nothing short of an addiction, Which SE is slowly but surely breaking for most people, as demonstrated by the lowering subscription rate.
Sad that the player base is no longer a bunch of sadistic f**ks who get their pebbles off to Bot wars and Broom-raping eachother with mediocre challenge and artificial walls at HNM camps spouting drama at eachother and acting like FFXI is the best game in the world because it takes 3% Of your entire life to achieve a new Pixel?Quote:
except for the people that just keep complaining things are impossible when they haven't taken the time or energy to reach out and get it. Very sad what alot of the player base has come to.
Yah, it's sooooo sad we're past that era in FFXI. Here's a hint, Maybe most of the Player-base no longer enjoys spending 2 years of their life going after 1 item because we're not 13 anymore. Times change, people grow up, and SE needs to realize that. The majority of its current playerbase has grown up, they've gotten jobs, some even wives/husdbands/families, and its not getting any steady supply of new young players soon. SE needs to realize content designed to stretch for years is not what the majority wants anymore.
Kudos to you on wanting to spend at least the next year of your life for your armor, But I do not share this sentiment. Nor does most of the playerbase.
Edit: And just a small side note, I don't think I've seen anyone (correct me if I'm wrong) say that the new gear is "Impossible" to obtain, Most if not all complaints are centered around the luck portion of the event and that it encourages the use of third party tools to some extent. Not necessarily my opinion, But the general consensus I'm seeing.
Me personally, I'm fine with content designed to take a few months. Months is a good measurement. I don't want to breeze through it in a week, But i also don't want to be 0/200 (Looking at you Voidwatch) and losing all will to continue playing. Its a toss up. I didn't log on for a good 4-5 Days last week, And I logged on just yesterday cause i realized apparently I had enough crysta for another month, only to realize I have no will to play anymore because I don't want to do voidwatch and take my tally of "Voidwatch Bodies Obtained:" from 0/404 to anything higher (no, That number is not made up).
*Oh, And again, In case it was lost in short attention span - This announcement for Nyzul is an amazing compromise from SE, I enjoy that they're letting us have some sort of progression. -
03-05-2012, 06:54 AMAtoreisIts not stupid you just havent understood it maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
Let me make it more clear.
Double attack is lucky based function in this game but by adding more % it happens more often.
You can look at floors you can clear on avg like you look at % of double attack.
You still need luck to reach 100 but adding more floors you can clear on avg make reaching 100 to happen more often.
Your analogy is ironically perfect view of old Nyzul Isle when you was able to reach boss floor 100% of the time but RNG of drop rate would screw you 90% of the time. Except if they will go this route in new nyzul drop rate would be around 1% considering how good are those pieces. -
03-05-2012, 09:16 PMhikoif groupA as 100 succes rate on clearing anyfloor 10sec faster than group B, group A need less luck (lower RNG ???) than group B=> skill matterQuote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
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03-05-2012, 10:34 PMKristalNo, it's [Luck * Skill]. If you are lucky you need less skill, but if you are skillfull you need less luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
More complex: [(Luck+Cheat) * Skill * Karma], where you can boost your luck by cheating, but karma might kick in when a meteor falls on your house. Those pesky meteors always ruin it for all of us... -
03-05-2012, 11:10 PMFrankReynoldsHere's the problem. At the end of the day i'ts still 90% luck, so group A can clear shit faster all day, and not see a higher floor than group B for weeks / months. That is dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiko
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03-06-2012, 12:05 AMhikoit's more luck*(skill+cheat)*karmaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kristal
groupA will average higher than groupBQuote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
if group B was more skilled they'd reach a higher floor than they did! -
03-06-2012, 02:27 AMFrankReynoldsQuote:
Originally Posted by hiko
Group A clears 20 floors, and gets 2-5 at every ???.
Group B clears 12 floors and gets 9 at every ???.
Group B is clearly far more skilled yeah?
this scenario can repeat itself hundreds of times. Luck is fun. -
03-06-2012, 06:51 AMScribbleChance. Better known as LUCK! I didn't ignore what you wrote. If you yourself weren't so ignorant you'd have noticed that the rest of my response was aimed at the person I quoted. The only thing I would point out to you is that there have been suggestions made. Regardless of that, their original implementation of Nyzul was better. Just because you might not agree doesn't make other's opinions ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoreis
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03-06-2012, 09:44 AMByrthDoing well so far...Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
Whoops! If you draw sets of independent samples (like floor jumps) from an even distribution (flat like the 2~9 RNG), the mean of the independent sample sets falls into a symmetric distribution about the mean of the population with sufficiently high N. So no, while it is theoretically possible for the scenario to repeat itself hundreds of times, it is incredibly unlikely. Actually, the odds of getting 12 consecutive 9-jumps even once is very very low. (1/8^12 = 1/68719476736) However, that would put you at floor 9, so I'm assuming it was actually 11 consecutive 9-jumps and boss (1/8^11 = 8589934592).Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
If two groups have comparable and sufficient sample size, they should see floor 100 at a rate that is mostly determined by how many floors they can clear in 30 minutes. The random number generator is just a distractor designed to frustrate good groups and sometimes smile on weaker groups. -
03-06-2012, 09:47 AMFupafighter
It will not take 1 year to get an item...maybe it will take YOU 1 year lol...but not us. Because we actually motivate ourselves to get stuff instead of sitting here complaining about how it's so impossible. STFU lol
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03-06-2012, 09:59 AMFrankReynoldslol its a 30 minute event that can only be done once per day. I have 23:30 to sit here and talk about just how dumb you are for thinking that you are any more proficient at nyzul isle than I am. Where is your floor 100 gear? you should have it all by now right? Have you even made it to 100?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
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03-06-2012, 10:16 AMFupafighter
Why don't you look at the gear. God atleast I attempt the event over and over without bitching about how I can't achieve 100, when I know I can. TAKES TIME. The gear is the best in the game for the slots, why the F would it be achievable faster than VW gear lol?
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03-06-2012, 03:28 PMFrankReynoldsLOL because they are about to release new VW gear too? and salvage upgrades? and legion gear? and einherjar? and and .... This gear will probably be the top gear for less time than it takes to build a set of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
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03-07-2012, 01:10 AMFupafighter
K you lemme know how that turns out.
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03-08-2012, 07:37 AMAana
What byrth said. Some people have zero understanding of basic stats. If your good, you will get stuff faster because you can weather more bad luck than a bad group. A bad group needs once a millennium star alignment of perfection to get to 100. A good group will be far more successful.
Originally: Only people that could get to 100 regularly had a chance in hell to get the best gear.
Now: Anyone that can get to floor 80 can get some 100 gear. People that can reach 100 can get it faster.
How is that NOT an improvement? This increases the availability of this gear exponentially (literally). -
03-08-2012, 12:04 PMFupafighter
Nyzle Isle is kinda like all other events, you have to have a job that can perform better at the event.... Can't expect go go in there with like a kannagi nin and think your going to get floor 100 gear.
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03-09-2012, 12:04 AMAlkimi
Kannagi NIN probably wouldn't be too bad in there, for us anything that's self-sufficient works since I'm usually left at the rune on SCH. 3/5 of our setup can heal themselves fine (BLU, Apoc DRK, THF) and the SAM and WAR destroy most mobs so quickly that they take little damage and the BLU can heal them at a pinch.
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03-09-2012, 03:45 AMwish12oz
NIN is good on EP content such as this. It's not nearly as useful as WAR which can 1 shot a single mob with ukkos or clear 2 rooms worth of stuff in 5-10 seconds with fell cleave, but it's not horrible.
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03-09-2012, 10:58 AMStarry
I honestly can't believe your letting someone named FUPA troll you this bad...forsrs guys..
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03-09-2012, 11:24 AMFupafighter
Ok ninja does not have the damage output to help benefit people in nyzle isle. Even my dancer can do 2x the damage lol... I have gone with ninja's and they just kill slooooooooooow. It's like a thf without sneak attack.
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03-09-2012, 11:37 AMFupafighterThink you just proved my point. Your not going to make it to 80-100 with slow killing nin's when you could have a ukon warrior or a shoha sam or a good blu or a good dancer or a good (anything that can SC).....Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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03-09-2012, 01:08 PMFrankReynoldsAre you really putting your dancer up there with war as a DD? for real realz? not for play playz?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fupafighter
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03-09-2012, 01:09 PMFupafighterIn nyzle isle yes lol...Dnc/war is pretty epic. VW...abyssea...no. Just saying ninja is nowhere near these jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
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03-13-2012, 02:11 AMTinuviel
I can't imagine SE will reduce the # clears required on nyzul 2. They need to slow us down with grind so they don't have to generate new content! Going from 25 down to 20 is actually a big deal for their dev team...
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03-13-2012, 02:32 AMNeisan_Quetz
What the hell is this crap about Nin slow killing in Nyzul, do you fulltime pink/evasion gear on Nin or something equally stupid. It's no heavy DD but a good Nin isn't a total slouch either.
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03-13-2012, 07:56 AMConcerned4FFxi
Its supposed to be difficult for a skilled group to reach 100, so yes, a group with under geared or wrong jobs wouldnt make it to 100 and I'm fine with that.
Note: I havent reached 100 yet and that hasn't stopped me, it just makes me work harder and smarter, I hate when people complain they can't have everything but are unwilling to work or level and gear jobs specifically for certain functions in order to accomplish their goals.
Before the COP uncap nerf, I leveled ninja JUST to do cop 2-5. That was the solo purpose of leveling, gearing, and skilling the job at the time. With the introduction od abyssea it seems some people are not willing to go the extra mile in order to get what they want, then post on here for SE to lower the requirements in order to make everything easy access. I don't agree with that logic. -
03-13-2012, 08:05 AMKarbuncle
Neo-Nyzul is not impossible, I've seen a few 100 Screenshots myself, It may be less than legitimate, But it shows you can reach it. Though, the circumstances to reach said goal are unreasonably high. Some people in this thread genuinely fall unto the category of lazy you attempt to display, However, very many do not.
Every person has a unique view on what they consider a Goal. However, theres a fine line between Refusing to attempt something that is clearly unfair and unreasonable, and not attempting anything ever. Its not always about doing whatever it takes, sometimes there are trials that are just so unreasonable, you have to stand up and defy those giving the challenge.
Blindly attempting to do something that is unreasonable and Being super lazy and attempting nothing are just two sides of the same coin. One is pure laziness, the other Is a fools errand. -
03-13-2012, 08:24 AMsaevel
The only thing I don't like is that floor 100 is only obtainable by 6 people of certain jobs with emps using questionable methods that had luck favor them. Kinda goes against SE's statement of not wanting to create content that is designed to require the best gear to participate in. No one is going to do nyzule isle for level 30~60, their only going to want level 80 and 100 which means their only going to accept the best people on a very small set of jobs.
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03-13-2012, 09:33 AMSpankWustler
I don't mind the set of jobs needed for Nyzul Isle much, because it can be drastically different from the set of jobs that does best in Abyssea or Voidwatch. Yeah, some jobs are needed for all three or two out of the three, but there's a lot of change as well.
Dancer and Scholar perform very well in Nyzul Isle, for example, and they've had nothing unique to offer in other recent content. Blue Mage is actually desired for being Blue Mage rather than Proccy Von Proccington the !! of the Unique Proc Dynasty. Warrior is put on the same level as everything else that does a lot of damage since a ton of weapons aren't needed for procs. -
03-13-2012, 01:49 PMFupafighterNo duh...But does it compete with a 5 hit sam running around doing 3k shoha every 10 seconds? No lol. Unless there is some magical way for ninjas to double their damage, they won't keep up with a sam, war, blu, dnc in the new nyzle isle. And i could probably get a shitton of 90 kannagi people to verify that nin is only good at doing damage in abyssea haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz
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03-13-2012, 01:53 PMFupafighter
Yeah SE is wrong to make the game favor certain jobs to kill certain content, but it has always been that way. I just suggest leveling atleast one job of each category lol, or you will not get very far in this game. It's not like the game is favoring jobs, it's favoring jobs for content. We have the option to lvl 20 jobs for a reason.