Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

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Why does a level 30 character need to go into Abyssea? The only effect is that no one plays any jobs between level 30-75 now.

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Besides grind, what did they do before? No one actually does missions or quests or BCNMs before they're max level.

The EXP increase somewhat solved this problem. If you really want to put together a solid party, you can still level up pretty fast out of abyssea.

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Then start caring about the job.

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Not to downplay the advancement process, but this isn't anything unusual. No one cares what you can do before you're max level. As long as people do their homework ahead of time and learn about their capabilities, if they don't want to grind grind grind, I feel that's their choice. Smart people will still know what to do afterwards. This notion that everyone who speed levels to 90 doesn't know anything about playing the game is just not true. Yes, some people will be like that. But largely as a result of the lack of new players, this really isn't being a serious problem.

Remember, as every MMORPG gets older, the leveling gets faster. This is to allow anyone who joins the game "late" to "catch up."

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Just curious....was this an issue in 2002 when the game was first released? Just how did players make it back then?

Food for thought....discuss amongst yourselves....

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back in 2002 there was stuff on the AH and ways to make money for new players. Now if your a fresh out of the gate newbie with no friends you'll find an empty AH and that you have to wait 3 months before you can garden. The quests in 11 are a joke. the ones you can do barely give you anything and the ones that do require a lot of fame plus a high level job to do them.

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Originally Posted by Kanjitai

back in 2002 there was stuff on the AH and ways to make money for new players. Now if your a fresh out of the gate newbie with no friends you'll find an empty AH and that you have to wait 3 months before you can garden. The quests in 11 are a joke. the ones you can do barely give you anything and the ones that do require a lot of fame plus a high level job to do them.

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I seriously doubt there were crafted items on the AH when the game first launched in early 2002. Maybe when it finally made it's way out of Japan what... 6 months or so after it's initial launch.

The point I was trying to make is that the very first crop of new players...first experiencing the world with no guidance had to explore and find ways to make these items. They had to talk to the NPC's to get the recipes and share information with each other (unless someone had already figured out how to mine the DAT's in advance, who knows). Guess what...the very same in-game tools are there today (and in some cases the mats are more widely available), except all that information is freely available online, in print, and shared openly amongst the players.

Having an empty AH obviously didn't kill the game back then. The difference is the new players themselves were willing to put forth the effort to find their way. I've tried to give examples and hints on a path one can take. Even provided links to information to back it up.

And yet...there is still this assumption that the game needs to be put in beginners mode for new players, when it is already in easy mode by comparison. It's been said by others, and I'll say it again--the problem isn't with the game or the exisitng playerbase, it is with the attitude of the new players.

I guess Asura is Different, I had almost no trouble finding gear for my PUP when i decided to take it up literally just 2~3 days ago. Only thing i had a little trouble with was Battle gloves, Which i found on AH a little later, and PUP parts. But i went and farmed my PUP parts, Killed ob ~3/4 times, got almost all his parts, and killed a few Troll Puppetmasters, both things normal players can't do. but then again, Most of the "low level" Automaton attachments can be bought from Nashmau.

When they merge the Auction Houses, i think that'll alleviate a lot. For armor level 1~10 where i have the most trouble finding it, There are NPCs in all 3 nations that general sell level 1~10(11~14 too) Armor CHEAPER than Auction prices by several thousand gil in most instances. I can't speak for 15+ cause on Asura that stuff usually has 1-2 items in stock.

Really, I don't see exactly what can be done outside of Merging AH to make low-level gear more accessible. Crafters don't craft it enough cause there just aren't as many low level players gearing up, so their stuff sells slower, It would have to be a solution that gives crafters a reason to craft this gear, Otherwise the AH will remain empty. And i truthfully can't think of any solution right now. But thats why I'm not a Dev :|

I'm just lucky on Asura for the most part i can find the gear i need... And I hope its gets better for lower level players soon.

Edit: And despite the Loud-screaming A.D.D LOUD-NOISES-Style OP describing the want not to include crafting. Crafting is 99% of low level armor. Unless there is something done about that, Then it will be the one strong push behind Low-Level Auction house. from 1~15 you can buy from NPCs relatively cheap, past that most of the good low-level armor is crafted. sorry :|

a game can be easy and hard. world of warcraft for example. fresh out of the gate you can quest and get experience, gear, and money. true you don't get the best gear from quest and you can make better money from crafting. yes crafting is viable if done right and in my opinion the crafting system in 11 isn't done right.

The point is you can get to max level solo or if you chose with a group. also you play the game along the way. in 11 it's all about getting to max level then do stuff. that's not right. also even though it's not the best you get gear from the game so you can be useful to a group.

I haven't crafted in WoW just stuck to gathering. By doing that I make good money and can go to the AH and get better gear. That way I can go into the harder stuff in the game that requires 40 some people to do. I know some will get mad and say 11 isn't WoW or go play WoW. Your right 11 isn't WoW.

It's a great game and I still play now and then. When I do I see how much it's suffering and I want to help it but all my ideas get shot down with people saying we can't make it to easy. These are just my thoughts. If you agree with me thank you and if not I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Kanjitai

a game can be easy and hard. world of warcraft for example. fresh out of the gate you can quest and get experience, gear, and money. true you don't get the best gear from quest and you can make better money from crafting. yes crafting is viable if done right and in my opinion the crafting system in 11 isn't done right.

The point is you can get to max level solo or if you chose with a group. also you play the game along the way. in 11 it's all about getting to max level then do stuff. that's not right. also even though it's not the best you get gear from the game so you can be useful to a group.

I haven't crafted in WoW just stuck to gathering. By doing that I make good money and can go to the AH and get better gear. That way I can go into the harder stuff in the game that requires 40 some people to do. I know some will get mad and say 11 isn't WoW or go play WoW. Your right 11 isn't WoW.

It's a great game and I still play now and then. When I do I see how much it's suffering and I want to help it but all my ideas get shot down with people saying we can't make it to easy. These are just my thoughts. If you agree with me thank you and if not I don't care.

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While i Agree with your point, Sometimes when it comes to "Good Gear" and players, Its not about having no access, Isn't about those players being really stupid.

To be frank, Its obvious here and everywhere FFXI related there are just some plain really really really really really really really really really really Stupid people. the Haste thread for one, Everyone with a brain stem knows Haste is superior to just about everything for most situations, but people will still argue not using it. thats not gear-availability, thats stupidity.

Thankfully, Some of the best gear available from 72~78+ is almost always in Stock (Dusk, Haub, Perle, Some Aurore (namely legs..feet maybe), Etc. And in FFXI, the "Quests" for Armor are here in a small way, the Seal Quests get you +1 Empyrean Armor. Admittedly a much much smaller scale than WoW Quests, but its a small step in the right direction.

As for low level gear, Perhaps adding an NPC Somewhere in the starting zones that offers Quests for low level gear. Think of it like a fetch quest, you get the item, your reward is a piece of gear, similar to how the level ~31 RSE System works. Except dont involve Chests... That'll be bad. At level 1 You'd get the option to chose up to level 10 gear, at 11 up to 20, etc. You get to prepare ahead.

It wouldn't "Help the AH", but for low level armor unless crafters are given a reason to do so craft, We might need to look for solutions away from AH, As it might be a better idea in the long run. We'll see though.

Hate this websites Edit System? Double Post? something?

You don't get that great of gear till the 30s anyway. Some of the gear starting in the mid 30s, before abyssea was either good or great till the 70s with only side grades till end game gear. Even then stuff like hauby +1 was still one of the best body pieces for the jobs that could wear it. Also how many of the people moaning over the low lvl gear even bother leveling low level jobs before the update notice for the level increase, there wasn't much up then and almost nothing was on the starter citys AHs except craft mats.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

You don't get that great of gear till the 30s anyway. Some of the gear starting in the mid 30s, before abyssea was either good or great till the 70s with only side grades till end game gear. Even then stuff like hauby +1 was still one of the best body pieces for the jobs that could wear it. Also how many of the people moaning over the low lvl gear even bother leveling low level jobs before the update notice for the level increase, there wasn't much up then and almost nothing was on the starter citys AHs except craft mats.

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Agreed, Some things that come to mind are Leaping Boots, Republic Subligar, Mithra RSE Feet, etc.

I have a harder time finding Weapons than armor though. I think the last few times i went to gear up I had to buy a cheap-o Weapon off an NPC or from Conquest points.

...all this talk about low level gear and availablity...just what is it that is unavailable that these people need?

I look at what is available from NPC's, and tbh, I don't see anything that expensive that new players wouldn't be able to get by with until maybe around level 20. By then, you are hitting Jueno, getting chocobo, and should be positioned to use some CP gear as well as using the Jueno AH to find alternatives (and when AH's join, you wil be able to get the Jueno listings in starter cities). Typically, this also means you've been sociallizing some and should have some contact with crafters and higher level players to help you get the nicer crafted/quested/farmed gears (I had completely forgotten about the RSE that you start collecting at level 27--some of those pieces can carry some race/job combos a LONG way).

Just would be nice to see some examples...because from what I see, the situation really only gets dicey maybe around level 20 if you don't yet have a group of friends to help you out, but even then you could just get CP gear that carries you until you can start phasing in RSE gear (which will require some help to obtain) and maybe some CP/Allied gear. Then you can (to some degree) get by until the AF1 tier of gear (again, will need some help to obtain). By that point, you are already getting into gear that is still readily available on the AH--even if that dies out, there are still pieces from mobs, BCNM's, and NPC's (allied/CP) that can be mixed in with AF to get you buy if you have to until you can get the Abyssea Gear. And before you say it...CP is earned at a double rate in comparison now because of the XP tweak, and your friends liekly have lots of Allied notes (maybe CP as well) to help you out. I myself have been getting lots of weapons for lsmates when my nation had rank to get them.

About the only thing I can think of that aren't too popular in the AH now that can't be earned from mobs/quests aren't really gamebreaking to the point that you will be an epic failure without them--and those are lower level crafted items that you can get someone to make for you easily if you just ask around.

tldr: did a little poking around, and wondering... just what is it that is so hard for new players to obtain on their own before they have friends to help them get them?