FFXI fixed!

Assuming anyone who disagrees and dislikes your idea is only jealous or angry is also not a valid argument. No one gets upset when others have better gear or weapons than them. It's when people with better weapons and gear feel like they are entitled to more than anyone else when we all pay the same subscription that generally makes people upset. And kudos to Arcon for trying to make a counter-argument against people playing a game for fun?

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Originally Posted by Ragmar

You can accuse others of only wanting to lord gear over you all day long. Fact is many times in this thread you have shown it's really about you placing value on gear that those in support aren't. The envy is thick and sad. No one once has said they want something others cant have. People supporting have mearly asked for content/rewards to be reflective of each other. This then turns into people calling them ego freaks and elitests because they fear they might not be able to complete said content and not get the rewards they place such a high value on. I'd like every relic/empy/mythic in the game but I will be lucky to finish 1-2 relics and maybe a total of 4-5 empys. Others will have much more and I'll tip my hat to them, I wont begin to seethe with anger and indignation.

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So make beating events in hard mode give people shiny gear with bling on it and exact same stats then yeah? maybe when you beat Kirin in hard mode, you get an osode that is decked out in gold. Sounds fair. Don't come in here saying that you wan't the osode to have better stats though, cuz that will make the next event you do "too easy".

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Originally Posted by Komori

And kudos to Arcon for trying to make a counter-argument against people playing a game for fun?

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I don't get what you're saying here, but I still liked what you said. I think everyone should be allowed to have fun if it doesn't exclude people. I've seen too much content created that screwed over the casuals and the same amount that screwed over the hardcore. My solutions was always simple allow people who want higher difficultly and people who want the easier long term commitment to me rewarded equally at their own paces.

People can't have fun if something is to hard likewise, people can't have fun if it's to easy. Giving special rewards to one side doesn't make things more fun. The fun factor is knowing you've accomplished something at your level. If someone takes a slow path or a fast path if they come out even in the end it really shouldn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Excuse yourself, I'm not the one banging my head on the wall making statements that I'm better or bored with the game.

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No, you're the one banging your head on the wall making statements that your opinion is better than mine.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Did this somehow hurt the chances of inflating someones ego? Look at the likes on the original post and the 3rd post likes. This clearly shows that a large percentage of players reading disagree with those asking for special treatment. You can cut me down all you want but I'm seeing beyond the the delusions of grandger coming from your side of the field.

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You see only what you want to see. This is not about personal opinions, nor is it about sides. I'm not on Ragmar's side, I approved of his idea. I have no idea of his reasons or motivations for them, I only have my own. You're the one who's trying to force this into a you vs. me debate.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

As for disqualifying me and my arguments I can say this.

I'm just perusing an equality interest and pointing out the flaws I'm seeing here. I'm not wasting time. The solutions I gave would benefit the community, hence you're stopping humanity's progress by posting your retorts. Who's the one being a douche? The one trying to move the games progress in the right direction or the player calling for special treatment?

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The one who thinks his opinion is the right one. You don't support the community, you support your own opinion. The fact that some people want this and you're against it already means you're not talking for "the community". Stop pretending you're a saint.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

If you can't handle this then it's not my problem I gave solutions but you still ask for more.

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You didn't give a solution, you said "you're wrong, I'm right, you're bad, I'm good, for no reason other than my own delusions". I'm not even paraphrasing (much).

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Why don't you admit how shallow it is to want entitlement that does nothing more then help you mess yourself with inflated ego.

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That's very shallow. That's still not what's going on. That's what you'd like it to be to validate your own opinion. If you admitted that there were real reasons for me wanting this you wouldn't be the good guy anymore but just a partypooper.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

If you can't have fun with the rewards you've been given because it doesn't make you feel special that isn't an issue with the game.

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I can't have fun with the rewards I've been given because I don't feel they reward me for anything. I made a Mandau the other day, the strongest weapon for THF there is. I felt nothing. It was a shallow effort. I never even did Dynamis for it other than to farm the base weapon, farm attestations and fragments.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

No this wasn't totally directed at you Arcon, my apologies, clearly you should realize by defending him you've mirrored his reasoning and overall agenda.

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Only I never defended him at all, ever. I don't know him, why would I care for him? I just agreed with his proposal.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I just don't understand. Why would a person who just wants more challenge and a fitting reward for besting said challenge, want the reward for said challenge to be something (Stronger gear) that makes every future event less challenging?

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I specifically said that I don't care for that. I said it could as well be items of convenience like movement speed or inventory saver items. Just anything to remind me that it's actually worth trying to be good, because right now that is not in the game except for a select few events.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Why not some piece of gear that is the same stats as the one the general public can obtain, but different color / shape, to show that you are a bad ass? Why does it have to make things easier for you (have higher stats / effects)? I mean if you truly care about the challenge, then having a different model to show your accomplishment should be fine right?

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See above. There's advantages that don't break the game or reduce the challenge. If there were no advantages to it at all it would just be show-off gear, and as I said, I don't particularly care for showing off, despite what people like to read into my words.

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Originally Posted by Komori

And kudos to Arcon for trying to make a counter-argument against people playing a game for fun?

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No kudos to you for not recognizing that people have different ideas of fun. If I pay 13 bucks monthly for a game, I want it to offer me more than a simple card game could. Card games are fun. They support multiplayer, they're quick and easy and casual, require no lasting commitment. That's not what an RPG is to me, a MMORPG least of all. There are (literally) hundreds of better games to play if you want mere entertainment. FFXI is one of the worst games I can think of in that regard. This is a project to me. I play it to develop my character. And I play to excel at it. It has always been my main motivation. That is fun to me.

So you contradict yourself and think that your thirteen dollars is better than casuals because you want to make content that they can specifically not clear so that you can feel accomplished in a video game?

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Originally Posted by Komori

Assuming anyone who disagrees and dislikes your idea is only jealous or angry is also not a valid argument. No one gets upset when others have better gear or weapons than them. It's when people with better weapons and gear feel like they are entitled to more than anyone else when we all pay the same subscription that generally makes people upset. And kudos to Arcon for trying to make a counter-argument against people playing a game for fun?

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Much of your argument is pretty bad.

I think we all agree that no one cares what other people have (openly, at least). The problem lies in when people like you assume that other people with more items desire even more than what any one else has just because they want more. It's like you didn't even read Ragmar or Arcon's arguments correctly.

It was clear as day that Ragmar and Arcon simply want content that justifies having previous top of the line gear, and in turn having the best gear possible from that [new] event as a reward. What's the point of building all of these relics, emps, mythics, and Neo Nyzul gear if there's no challenging content to put them to use?

Everyone plays this game for fun, indeed. However, everyone's definition of "fun" that they draw from this game is different. Some people like the fact that current content brought everyone on the "same level" and playing field-- these are people, are yourself and a few other posters in the thread. Then there are people like Arcon and Ragmar who feel that current content is no longer challenging (key word), but also the fact that current content only rewards the majority casual players now (which it does).

I used to be a hardcore player in this game, so I loved how the content was back in the day. However, I also loved Abyssea content too, and how it brought many casual players up to the same level as the hardcore players. However now, after 3 years of abyssea and now voidwatch, I feel this game is way too easy mode as well, and desire much more challenging, new content. The argument about stripping yourself of cruor buffs for a challenge is pretty wack-- whenever someone says "challenge" in FFXI, they almost always mean a challenge that places 6~18 people vs a tough NM or structure of content.

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Originally Posted by Komori

So you contradict yourself and think that your thirteen dollars is better than casuals because you want to make content that they can specifically not clear so that you can feel accomplished in a video game?

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Wrong. First of all, I'm not putting my opinion ahead of yours. I'm just offering it to SE, telling them what I'd like to see in this game. Secondly I'm not saying casuals shouldn't get it. I'm a casual player myself. I'm saying people who don't improve shouldn't get it. Whether that means they're bad or they're lazy or not motivated, whatever. But yes, I do believe that not everything should be attainable by effort that amounts to fuck all. I honestly don't understand how people can want that.

Looks like you blew your stack Accon. Even if you disagree what I've seen deserves attention. The community simply doesn't want it. Read his first and last paragraphs in the original post. Apparently, I partially agree with some of the stuff you've been defending. The entire entitlement issue is where special treatment is given and the attitude doesn't go over well.

It's obvious this FFXI Fixed will never fly with everyone. It'd cause more harm then good. The evidence has show this time and time again. Neo Nyzul. Look at CoP, I beat those missions at normal capped levels. Do I think I should get a +1 ring? I beat RDM back as my first level 70 camp should I have a special RDM hat that gives +3 refresh? No, I don't think so.

People hated the hard content (as stated by the developers themselves years go). The rant the original post showed hatred for the community as a whole who've been asking for easier ways to to things. I agree that both sides should have their own pace and levels of difficulty but, I stand firm that none of that gear should be statistically stronger.

On a final note Yes, I'm playing saint. When someone wants to revert back to a 2004 community and advertise destructive ideas I'm going to point out the devil.

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Originally Posted by Sarick

Looks like you blew your stack Accon. Even if you disagree what I've seen deserves attention. The community simply doesn't want it. Read his first and last paragraphs in the original post. Apparently, I partially agree with some of the stuff you've been defending. The entire entitlement issue is where special treatment is given and the attitude doesn't go over well.

It's obvious this FFXI Fixed will never fly with everyone. It'd cause more harm then good. The evidence has show this time and time again. Neo Nyzul. Look at CoP, I beat those missions at normal capped levels. Do I think I should get a +1 ring? I beat RDM back as my first level 70 camp should I have a special RDM hat that gives +3 refresh? No, I don't think so.

People hated the hard content (as stated by the developers themselves years go). The rant the original post showed hatred for the community as a whole who've been asking for easier ways to to things. I agree that both sides should have their own pace and levels of difficulty but, I stand firm that none of that gear should be statistically stronger.

On a final note Yes, I'm playing saint. When someone wants to revert back to a 2004 community and advertise destructive ideas I'm going to point out the devil.

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A good majority of your posts are also pretty bad. You do not speak for the community as a whole, and should not. Just as well, people should not take your posts for what they are.

A good deal of people also loved the hard content, just as well as others who hated it. When you leave the realm of casual content and dive into hardcore content gear should and must be statistically stronger, as this is a typical MMO:

1) You play an MMO for strong gear, and obtain it.
2) You use strong gear to face a monster or [increasingly] difficult content.
3) You obtain stronger and better gear as your reward(s).

You should not play saint at any point in time. A real person playing saint would be able to take on both sides of an argument and with it, find common ground between the two. You are only loosely speaking for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Shoko

1) You play an MMO for strong gear, and obtain it.
2) You use strong gear to face a monster or [increasingly] difficult content.
3) You obtain stronger and better gear as your reward(s).

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Your missing a step:

4) After you have gotten to wear the best gear for a sufficient amount of time, the developer makes that gear available to everyone and you start back at step 2.

If you add something that average joes can't do, and add awesome gear to it, then the next new event has to be even harder to compensate for the new uber gear that the leet players will be wearing. Then when the leet get their Uber +2 gear from that event, the next event has to be even harder than the second one to compensate for the uber +2 stats. The fourth event harder than the third one. This goes on until you reach a state where 90% of the players get KOed for even mentioning the name of the event, while a few guys are cruising through it with basically the same degree of difficulty that they had with the first event, because they have all the awesome gear (or atmas or temp items or w/e) that makes things easier.