Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No argument there.

One thing's always bugged me though. The Relic weapons ALWAYS have a chance to do multiplied damage. Are people considering this when they compare empy weapons and relics and say the empys are better?

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Relic OTD/DD rates are atrocious, and for the most part Empyrean WS are almost always the best WS available for the class when the Empyrean itself is worth making. Dagger is pretty much the only good Empyrean that sacrifices some damage to keep Aftermath ODD up, and even then I believe it's a bit ahead of Mandau.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

My avatars are free without any weapon. What situation makes those Magian staves worth anything?

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You should really really read my edit at the bottom that you seemed to ignore and/or miss

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Relic OTD/DD rates are atrocious, and for the most part Empyrean WS are almost always the best WS available for the class when the Empyrean itself is worth making. Dagger is pretty much the only good Empyrean that sacrifices some damage to keep Aftermath ODD up, and even then I believe it's a bit ahead of Mandau.

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I think 90 Mandau vs 90 Thwast is very close, Last i checked it Favored Mandau due to the 25% WS boost Relics received at 90, and slightly higher base damage. Plus in Abyssea with Mandau you can simply spam Evisc and still receive OTD, where as with Thwast you would have to use a gimp WS (Rudras is trash unstacked...) to keep up Aftermath every ~30(60?) Seconds.

Of course every debate i read has one guy arguing Thwast is better and one arguing Mandau is better.

That portion was not there. As one of two SMN in this thread that have figured out what goes in between BPs besides nose-picking, I can safely say that the only job that ever wanted melee staves for melee was SMN.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

My avatars are free without any weapon. What situation makes those Magian staves worth anything?

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I thought you don't use Minkin, and I know you don't have any perp gear at all, because you are all "melee or GTFO."

So how do you get free avatars without your "uber" emp weapon? By not summoning them?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

That portion was not there. As one of two SMN in this thread that have figured out what goes in between BPs besides nose-picking, I can safely say that the only job that ever wanted melee staves for melee was SMN.

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Monks don't exist, do they?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Monks don't exist, do they?

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No MNK would ever use a staff outside of proccing in abyssea or using it to skill up more easily.

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So how do you get free avatars without your "uber" emp weapon? By not summoning them?

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I gain 1 MP with full empyrean and no weapon at all on all avatars at all times with favor, and gain more MP with no favor if the weather is up. Fenrir and Carbuncle are always "free". normal avatars without the corresponding weather and no favor are -1mp/tick.

You don't EVER need 6 perp on staff unless you think getting the empyrean armor for your job is uncool. To just offset perp cost (favor off), you only need 1. To offset perp cost + gain full refresh benefit, you need 4.

If you are a summon+dismiss SMN there's even less point in ever wearing a perp staff as the MP savings will be minimal, 3-12 MP at worst (leaving 10 seconds to summon/bp/dismiss); you could just idle in a soulscourge and you'd never notice the perp cost. For anyone else, elemental staves STILL do the job. Why waste time to get more perp than you need?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No MNK would ever use a staff outside of proccing in abyssea or using it to skill up more easily.

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I've used my staff plenty. Not in my every day situations, but I've used it more times than you're giving it credit for

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No MNK would ever use a staff outside of proccing in abyssea or using it to skill up more easily.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

I've used my staff plenty. Not in my every day situations, but I've used it more times than you're giving it credit for

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Hell, I don't mess with MNKs that often but even I knew that they use staffs more than just procing.

SA fullswing was a great alternative to lolchi blast when they didn't want you meleeing on something.