The importance of job points

I would wager that the majority of players haven't capped a job of their job point categories, it's all well and good saying, "Look how amazing I am, I already capped my job points, why are these people complaining, CP rate is fine, they just want handouts", you are part of the minority, it is in SE's best interest to have their content be as inclusive as possible, job points isn't inclusive in it's current form and will definitely be the case if they raise the category caps beyond 10 each.

You see it as an accomplishment fine, you have it, you're already reaping the rewards for being the early adopters to a broken system, you get all the job gifts and all the superior gear right now, while players like me will probably wait and just casually obtain Job Points until an inevitable nerf to Job Points happens and it will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

/doubleheadesk

Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean you got a handout or got something for free. The 2 have entirely different meanings and connotations. At best you could call this a sale or keeping up with the time, adjusting for changes in the market, deflation etc. I mean even the smallest flat screen used to cost tons but now they are cheap and no one other than the salemen would say they are giving them away

---

/tripleheadesk

yes it does mean if something is cheaper you got a handout or something for free. Go buy a car. The salesman sells it to you for one dollar. If you don't think you just got 99% of that car for free you are deluding yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tidis

I would wager that the majority of players haven't capped a job of their job point categories, it's all well and good saying, "Look how amazing I am, I already capped my job points, why are these people complaining, CP rate is fine, they just want handouts", you are part of the minority, it is in SE's best interest to have their content be as inclusive as possible, job points isn't inclusive in it's current form and will definitely be the case if they raise the category caps beyond 10 each.

You see it as an accomplishment fine, you have it, you're already reaping the rewards for being the early adopters to a broken system, you get all the job gifts and all the superior gear right now, while players like me will probably wait and just casually obtain Job Points until an inevitable nerf to Job Points happens and it will.

---

except that's not what is happening. looking at the people arguing that CP rate is fine, they don't have capped JP. JP is inclusive in its current form. Everyone can get them. Just because you don't get them in one day doesn't make them exclusive. The only "nerf" of JP I see happening that hasn't already happened is even more capacity rate gain from higher levels of gifts. Since they have already shown getting a rate increase at 5, 25, 55, and 95 i'm going to go out on a limb here and say the next ones will be at 145, 205, 275, and 355.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

/tripleheadesk

yes it does mean if something is cheaper you got a handout or something for free. Go buy a car. The salesman sells it to you for one dollar. If you don't think you just got 99% of that car for free you are deluding yourself.

---

There's a huge difference between paying what something is worth and getting something for free. It can easily be missed when you use terms like "99% off" in your analogies because that is a gross exaggeration of what people actually want. taking 99% off of a $30,000 car is about as close to free as one could hope. Taking %50 off of a $30,000 car is a great deal, but It's still a $15,000 car. And if most people didn't really think the car was worth anywhere near $30,000 to begin with, it's probably actually the correct price.

Using hyperbole like 99% off a car or 100 alex Mythics is a great argument technique if people don't know any better, but we do know better and no one asked of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

/tripleheadesk

yes it does mean if something is cheaper you got a handout or something for free. Go buy a car. The salesman sells it to you for one dollar. If you don't think you just got 99% of that car for free you are deluding yourself.

---

Right because everyone here is asking for 99% off right? Try again with without the strawmen

Oh no Singforu found this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

Right because everyone here is asking for 99% off right? Try again with without the strawmen

---

it's not a strawman, but yours is. any # will do, doesn't matter the amount. I will bring it back to JP though for you that can't figure out the similarities of asking something as reducing price is same as getting something for free:

say you are getting 100 CP a kill. It would take 300 kills to get a JP.
SE then makes it so you get 300 CP a kill.
In 300 kills you are getting 3 JP. That's 2 JP for free for the work of only doing 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

There's a huge difference between paying what something is worth and getting something for free. It can easily be missed when you use terms like "99% off" in your analogies because that is a gross exaggeration of what people actually want. taking 99% off of a $30,000 car is about as close to free as one could hope. Taking %50 off of a $30,000 car is a great deal, but It's still a $15,000 car. And if most people didn't really think the car was worth anywhere near $30,000 to begin with, it's probably actually the correct price.

Using hyperbole like 99% off a car or 100 alex Mythics is a great argument technique if people don't know any better, but we do know better and no one asked of that.

---

it was an example to prove a point, which clearly went over your head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

YES.

Yes!

No. There's plenty of encouragement in better CP gains to party already.

---

Thanks for taking the time to consider my suggestions.

Honestly even if just the two you liked were implemented it would make CP a lot more reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

can't figure out the similarities of asking something as reducing price is same as getting something for free

---

We can't "figure it out" because it's ludicrous. My boots were $100 off. That doesn't mean I got them for free. That's just so many facepalm I can't even count them.

Honestly, its fine to disagree with others. If you really really like how grindy CP is, that's fine. You have a right to that opinion. I don't understand it, because there are enough CP in enough categories that you could grind them for years even if they vastly increased the rate of gain, but again, that's an opinion and a preference and you have a right to it.

But you don't have a right to redefine reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olor

We can't "figure it out" because it's ludicrous. My boots were $100 off. That doesn't mean I got them for free. That's just so many facepalm I can't even count them.

---

what's facepalm is that you don't realize that you got $100 for free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olor

Thanks for taking the time to consider my suggestions.

Honestly even if just the two you liked were implemented it would make CP a lot more reasonable.


We can't "figure it out" because it's ludicrous. My boots were $100 off. That doesn't mean I got them for free. That's just so many facepalm I can't even count them.

Honestly, its fine to disagree with others. If you really really like how grindy CP is, that's fine. You have a right to that opinion. I don't understand it, because there are enough CP in enough categories that you could grind them for years even if they vastly increased the rate of gain, but again, that's an opinion and a preference and you have a right to it.

But you don't have a right to redefine reality.

---

I agree. I might be more on the side of preferring long-term progression (as my earlier post pointed out), but the argument that getting something for less = getting something for free is just straight up nonsense. My troll senses are tingling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

it's not a strawman, but yours is. any # will do, doesn't matter the amount. I will bring it back to JP though for you that can't figure out the similarities of asking something as reducing price is same as getting something for free:

say you are getting 100 CP a kill. It would take 300 kills to get a JP.
SE then makes it so you get 300 CP a kill.
In 300 kills you are getting 3 JP. That's 2 JP for free for the work of only doing 1.

---

I don't think you know what the words you are using mean. So yes I can't figure it out because it's simply not what those words mean. You purposefully exaggerated something in a way no one was suggesting to make it look like your point worked. But if you did a reasonable amount no one would agree with you. No one says about how their Safeway club card gives them stuff for free.

A discount isn't getting something free it's getting something cheaper. There is a reason why our language has these separate words and terms and it isn't redundancy and there is a difference. If they truly meant the same thing then there would be absolutely no stigma towards asking for free stuff nor would it even be considered a derogative as it is now and as it is being used in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

what's facepalm is that you don't realize that you got $100 for free.

---

What's more facepalm is you still don't know what the definition of free is. But here is Merriam try to see which one fits your definition



1

a : having the legal and political rights of a citizen

b : enjoying civil and political liberty <free citizens>

c : enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination

d : enjoying personal freedom : not subject to the control or domination of another

2

a : not determined by anything beyond its own nature or being : choosing or capable of choosing for itself

b : determined by the choice of the actor or performer <free actions>

c : made, done, or given voluntarily or spontaneously

3

a : relieved from or lacking something and especially something unpleasant or burdensome <free from pain> <a speech free of political rhetoric> —often used in combination <error-free>

b : not bound, confined, or detained by force

4

a : having no trade restrictions

b : not subject to government regulation

c of foreign exchange : not subject to restriction or official control

5

a : having no obligations (as to work) or commitments <I'll be free this evening>

b : not taken up with commitments or obligations <a free evening>

6

: having a scope not restricted by qualification <a free variable>


7

a : not obstructed, restricted, or impeded <free to leave>

b : not being used or occupied <waved with his free hand>

c : not hampered or restricted in its normal operation

8

a : not fastened <the free end of the rope>

b : not confined to a particular position or place <in twelve-tone music, no note is wholly free for it must hold its place in the series — J. L. Stewart>

c : capable of moving or turning in any direction <a free particle>

d : performed without apparatus <free tumbling>

e : done with artificial aids (as pitons) used only for protection against falling and not for support <a free climb>

9

a : not parsimonious <free spending>

b : outspoken

c : availing oneself of something without stint

d : frank, open

e : overly familiar or forward in action or attitude

f : licentious

10

: not costing or charging anything


11

a (1) : not united with, attached to, combined with, or mixed with something else : separate <free ores> <a free surface of a bodily part> (2) : freestanding <a free column>

b : chemically uncombined <free oxygen> <free acids>

c : not permanently attached but able to move about <a free electron in a metal>

d : capable of being used alone as a meaningful linguistic form <the word hats is a free form> — compare 5bound 7

12

a : not literal or exact <free translation>

b : not restricted by or conforming to conventional forms <free skating>

13

: favorable —used of a wind blowing from a direction more than six points from dead ahead


14

: not allowing slavery


15

: open to all comers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seillan

I agree. I might be more on the side of preferring long-term progression (as my earlier post pointed out), but the argument that getting something for less = getting something for free is just straight up nonsense. My troll senses are tingling.

---

See, I respect this. Just like I respect the fellow who disagreed with me about getting CP while synced down on a 99 job. That's cool. We have different views of things, but we recognize the difference between an opinion and redefining words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

I don't think you know what the words you are using mean. So yes I can't figure it out because it's simply not what those words mean. You purposefully exaggerated something in a way no one was suggesting to make it look like your point worked. But if you did a reasonable amount no one would agree with you. No one says about how their Safeway club card gives them stuff for free.

A discount isn't getting something free it's getting something cheaper. There is a reason why our language has these separate words and terms and it isn't redundancy and there is a difference. If they truly meant the same thing then there would be absolutely no stigma towards asking for free stuff nor would it even be considered a derogative as it is now and as it is being used in this thread.

---

no i didn't exaggerate to make it look like my point worked. i could have used 99%, 50%, 25%, or even 1%. try another strawman. and thank you for proving my point by mentioning "reasonable amount" and "Safeway club card". Amount doesn't matter, 99% free or 1% free, it's still partially free.

you saying you don't think i don't know what the words mean doesn't make it so. I use words as they are defined. I gave an example of how 2 JP were given with only the work for 1. That is free as in the definition of: "not needing to be paid for" because you only paid for 1 JP and not the other 2 JP.

A discount is getting something for free. I'll use Olor's example of $100 off on her boots. Say she has $300 in her pocket and goes to buy a pair of $300 boots. When she gets to the store to her surprise they offer to give it for $100 off. So she leaves the store with a $300 pair of boots and $100 still in her pocket. Net gain: $100.

Here's another analogy. Let's say you have two coupons. One is for a free cookie. The other is a buy one cookie, get one free. Can we see the difference now? Getting a cookie without paying anything versus getting an extra cookie if you pay full price?

Double CP campaign means if you put in the work for CP you get extra. It's not the same as just free CP without putting in the work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

what's facepalm is that you don't realize that you got $100 for free.

---

that's

uh

gosh

i hope you never have to buy a used car, buddy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

it was an example to prove a point, which clearly went over your head.

---

No, I got it. It was just wrong and you purposely used skewed numbers in an attempt to make it sound like people were asking for much more than they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

no i didn't exaggerate to make it look like my point worked. i could have used 99%, 50%, 25%, or even 1%. try another strawman. and thank you for proving my point by mentioning "reasonable amount" and "Safeway club card". Amount doesn't matter, 99% free or 1% free, it's still partially free.

you saying you don't think i don't know what the words mean doesn't make it so. I use words as they are defined. I gave an example of how 2 JP were given with only the work for 1. That is free as in the definition of: "not needing to be paid for" because you only paid for 1 JP and not the other 2 JP.

A discount is getting something for free. I'll use Olor's example of $100 off on her boots. Say she has $300 in her pocket and goes to buy a pair of $300 boots. When she gets to the store to her surprise they offer to give it for $100 off. So she leaves the store with a $300 pair of boots and $100 still in her pocket. Net gain: $100.

---

Yeah sorry calling BS. You don't go to the huge extreme of 99% off on a whim. If you really thought those other percentages would've helped your argument you would have used them. Is English not your first language? Because that isn't what strawman means either. Nor do my examples come close to proving your point. And there is no such thing as partially free

Clearly you don't. Because guess what you still worked for those JPs you just happened to get more out of them but you still had to work for them. The value of work (like most values) is subjective. Increasing the value placed on that work does in no one shape or form count as getting free stuff because you still have to work for it. If it was really without cost or payment you would have just gotten it and yet no you still have to go out farm... almost like there was still a cost just a lower one. By that logic a raise free money. Heck by that insane leap of logic inflation is actually free money for everyone! And if they raise the requirements it's stealing!

Net gain? She left that store with $200 less than when she entered. What she "gained" was a greater amount of value per amount of money she spent but she didn't gain a single dollar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dasva

Yeah sorry calling BS. You don't go to the huge extreme of 99% off on a whim. If you really thought those other percentages would've helped your argument you would have used them. Is English not your first language? Because that isn't what strawman means either. Nor do my examples come close to proving your point. And there is no such thing as partially free

Clearly you don't. Because guess what you still worked for those JPs you just happened to get more out of them but you still had to work for them. The value of work (like most values) is subjective. Increasing the value placed on that work does in no one shape or form count as getting free stuff because you still have to work for it. If it was really without cost or payment you would have just gotten it and yet no you still have to go out farm... almost like there was still a cost just a lower one. By that logic a raise free money. Heck by that insane leap of logic inflation is actually free money for everyone! And if they raise the requirements it's stealing!

Net gain? She left that store with $200 less than when she entered. What she "gained" was a greater amount of value per amount of money she spent but she didn't gain a single dollar.

---

You can call it BS all you want, it doesn't matter, because the % doesn't help nor hinder my point at all. The amount doesn't matter, don't know how many times i need to repeat that. And it's you that doesn't seem to have english as a first language. Attacking a Strawman is creating the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition and then to refute or defeat that false argument. That is what you did. The point being argued in generality of that reducing requirements equaled getting something for free. You said "You purposefully exaggerated something in a way no one was suggesting to make it look like your point worked" when other people's suggestions had nothing to do with the argument. It was whether or not reducing requirements equaled getting something for free in any situation. So yes, you did a strawman. Your statement implied mine was correct only because of the % I used. The amount doesn't matter. And yes there is such things as partially free. I will give an example: SE makes it so you don't have to do nyzul tokens to obtain a mythic. Part of your mythic (the nyzul tokens part) is now free. The whole thing isn't, just that part.

No you didn't work for those JP. you worked for the first one. You got the other two for free. The value of work for JP is already defined, it isn't subjective. Your saying that increasing the value on that work does in no one shape or form count as getting free stuff because you still have to work for it is ludicrous. You are doing less work for 3 JP than what is normally required. There is a base work/CP already established. If you double the CP gain rate, you are doing 1/2 the work to obtain the same amount. If you triple the CP gain rate, you are doing 1/3 the work to obtain the same amount.

She goes and sell that $300 dollar boots for $300. She now has $400. Items of value = dollars = items of value.


Well, I'd love to stay and argue with your silliness some more; however, you can reply all you want, but I won't see it. I am going on vacation (I'm sure you won't miss me) to Antarctica soon and so I need to pack and get ready to go.

Square Enix - please don't make any decisions based off what is said in this thread over the next 2.5 weeks, thanks!


=P

Okay but buying 10 coffees and getting the 11th free is not the same thing as getting a free coffee. Yeah, you didn't have to pay anything for that 11th coffee but you also had to buy 10 coffees to make it happen.

Think of it like this. When a company doesn't pay enough, people quit and / or decline their job offers. Why? Because the pay isn't in line with the value of the work performed. So they offer more money. It's not free money. People still have to work for it.

The same thing applies here. People don't feel that the pay is equal to the work. They don't want free CP. They want CP quantities balanced to their value. There's always gonna be that one guy who just loves the work so much that he doesn't care if he gets paid at all, but the rest of the world doesn't work that way.

There is no "free" money. Just some people demand more for their effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

Okay but buying 10 coffees and getting the 11th free is not the same thing as getting a free coffee. Yeah, you didn't have to pay anything for that 11th coffee but you also had to buy 10 coffees to make it happen.

---

And they probably charged you more for the first 10 cups to compensate for that "free" one :p

I don't party I solo my jobs i don't aby burn or book burn. ..didn't sumner burn either i figured y burn something then have to spend time skilling it lol...now there are books to skill with but do u kno the job? not really

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

Amount doesn't matter, 99% free or 1% free, it's still partially free.

---

Yeah except we all know 2% fat milk tastes better than 1%. :P

Sometimes amount truly matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Singforu

Net gain: $100.

---

No, just not as big of a loss. In order to have gained she would have needed to have been paid to take the boots. With your example (of the boots costing $300), she would only be -$200 instead of -$300, but would still have less money after leaving the store than she had had before entering.

Saving money and gaining money are two different things. Sales and discounts are savings, not profits.

How can you all not understand that this is here to rectify the Abyssea mistake of allowing every job to be burned to 99.
Its so obvious it makes this entire thread pointless.


Start grinding your JP and stop posting in this thread. Or quit XI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urteil

How can you all not understand that this is here to rectify the Abyssea mistake of allowing every job to be burned to 99.
Its so obvious it makes this entire thread pointless.


Start grinding your JP and stop posting in this thread. Or quit XI.

---

I suppose you're right, perhaps you should petition SE to delete every account that hasn't farmed 50 job points on a job by now, the gear is clearly labelled superior and therefore only the superior players should remain.

Oh right, SE wouldn't have much of an MMO left if they had a "Grind JP or quit" philosophy.

Greetings,

We have received several questions in regards to Superior gear, so we'd like to explain the concept for Superior in general.

Superior gear was introduced to allow powerful item level gear to be created by crafters, which horizontally expands ways to increase your item level.

As many of you already know, equipment introduced post Adoulin were given item levels. The concept here is to have players obtain equipment with item levels corresponding to the difficulty of the current content, and having their stats increase according to these item levels.

However, there are various ways to play FFXI, and there are those who enjoy their time in Vana'diel without participating in high-level end game content.

We considered introducing high level items without the EX trait which could be purchased through the auction house or synthesized by high skilled crafters; however, if we introduced this powerful gear without restrictions, it would have allowed players to simply purchase powerful item level gear from crafters or the auction house.

This goes against the concept of players completing specific tasks to increase the strength of their jobs and growing their character.

For this reason, we introduced the Gift system where players can obtain gifts by accumulating job points, which is similar to leveling up. With the introduction of the Gift system we were able to add in Superior gear which has become another route for players to gain item levels without going through end game content.

Superior gear is designed so that Superior 1 allows players to aim for gear with item level 119 so that they might challenge the end game content, and Superior 2 opens up equipment with even greater stats. We would like players who don't have the opportunity to participate in end game content to use superior gear as another way to increase your item level and grow your character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grekumah

Greetings,

We have received several questions in regards to Superior gear, so we'd like to explain the concept for Superior in general.

Superior gear was introduced to allow powerful item level gear to be created by crafters, which horizontally expands ways to increase your item level.

As many of you already know, equipment introduced post Adoulin were given item levels. The concept here is to have players obtain equipment with item levels corresponding to the difficulty of the current content, and having their stats increase according to these item levels.

However, there are various ways to play FFXI, and there are those who enjoy their time in Vana'diel without participating in high-level end game content.

We considered introducing high level items without the EX trait which could be purchased through the auction house or synthesized by high skilled crafters; however, if we introduced this powerful gear without restrictions, it would have allowed players to simply purchase powerful item level gear from crafters or the auction house.

This goes against the concept of players completing specific tasks to increase the strength of their jobs and growing their character.

For this reason, we introduced the Gift system where players can obtain gifts by accumulating job points, which is similar to leveling up. With the introduction of the Gift system we were able to add in Superior gear which has become another route for players to gain item levels without going through end game content.

Superior gear is designed so that Superior 1 allows players to aim for gear with item level 119 so that they might challenge the end game content, and Superior 2 opens up equipment with even greater stats. We would like players who don't have the opportunity to participate in end game content to use superior gear as another way to increase your item level and grow your character.

---

You said nothing that we don't already know. You said nothing that we couldn't already infer from the name "Superior 1" vs "Superior 2" ..... :(

Grekumah,

You guys really should turn over development to us, the players, because the devs seem to get more clueless as time goes on.

Seriously, though. It would be a win-win for all those involved. SE can lease FFXI to a group of devs/players voted on by the FFXI community, probably the windower folks. They would in turn develop FFXI for minimal compensation and charge the player base enough so that SE can make a decent profit and pay for the server hosting. Yes, yes, I know how you guys feel about unofficial third party software, but from what I've heard, they've done a darn good job improving the play-ability of FFXI. Being an XBOX player, and considering the ultimate demise of FFXI on XBOX, I would like to see most of what is implemented in windower standard in FFXI. The development team has been following this trend anyway. And yes, I know the development environment is from the PS2 standpoint, and to continue maintaining FFXI a whole new environment would have to be put together and the code revamped and that would be as difficult as making a new MMO from scratch, but the player base dev community can actually make that happen! You can lease the game and the concept, the player base dev community would rejuvinate FFXI to come up to 2015 standards, and all SE would have to do is to make sure the general theme of FFXI is adhered to and reap in the dough! It's a win-win!

So how about it? Lease FFXI and concept to the player base development community so that we, the players, can have a better game with better expansions, and SE can have a cash cow with virtually zero maintenance. It's a win-win!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malthar

Grekumah,

You guys really should turn over development to us, the players, because the devs seem to get more clueless as time goes on.

Seriously, though. It would be a win-win for all those involved. SE can lease FFXI to a group of devs/players voted on by the FFXI community, probably the windower folks. They would in turn develop FFXI for minimal compensation and charge the player base enough so that SE can make a decent profit and pay for the server hosting. Yes, yes, I know how you guys feel about unofficial third party software, but from what I've heard, they've done a darn good job improving the play-ability of FFXI. Being an XBOX player, and considering the ultimate demise of FFXI on XBOX, I would like to see most of what is implemented in windower standard in FFXI. The development team has been following this trend anyway. And yes, I know the development environment is from the PS2 standpoint, and to continue maintaining FFXI a whole new environment would have to be put together and the code revamped and that would be as difficult as making a new MMO from scratch, but the player base dev community can actually make that happen! You can lease the game and the concept, the player base dev community would rejuvinate FFXI to come up to 2015 standards, and all SE would have to do is to make sure the general theme of FFXI is adhered to and reap in the dough! It's a win-win!

So how about it? Lease FFXI and concept to the player base development community so that we, the players, can have a better game with better expansions, and SE can have a cash cow with virtually zero maintenance. It's a win-win!

---

Hilarious notion!

If this where the case it would be weeks till you had every decent item in the game available at the mog house for free, have you read the posts on the forum of people asking for things to be given to them? yeah lets do what the playerbase wants. The game would be dead in a month, mission accomplished?

Its really frustrating how the few try to change the game for them, regardless of the effect on others who have played for many many years and are quite content, the ones who are likely to play even after updates stop because they enjoy the game, not just prancing about displaying there recent shinnies. the ones SE should try to keep not drive away.

I wouldn't do it, if I found this game so incompatible to myself I wouldn't play, not try to make it worse for others to my benefit, and what a dwindling few we now seem to be.

Read my post again, and this time read it intelligently without jumping to conclusions, then edit your post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rainehx

Hilarious notion!

If this where the case it would be weeks till you had every decent item in the game available at the mog house for free, have you read the posts on the forum of people asking for things to be given to them? yeah lets do what the playerbase wants. The game would be dead in a month, mission accomplished?

Its really frustrating how the few try to change the game for them, regardless of the effect on others who have played for many many years and are quite content, the ones who are likely to play even after updates stop because they enjoy the game, not just prancing about displaying there recent shinnies. the ones SE should try to keep not drive away.

I wouldn't do it, if I found this game so incompatible to myself I wouldn't play, not try to make it worse for others to my benefit, and what a dwindling few we now seem to be.

---

I really love a lot of recent improvements that SE have made to FFXI.

Especially armor/job lockstyle changes, which is something that I've been hoping for since 2004, as it never made any sense to me that some jobs can't wear certain types of gear. So I really like the new lockstyle changes that allow WAR to wear Freestyle armors, for example, even though it is for purely cosmetic effect, that is still a huge improvement and makes the game far more enjoyable and logical to me.

Honestly I think SE have added so many cool new features and improvements to FFXI, over the last 18~ months, I think they've done a great job. And I'm really looking forward to the Goddess Gala and the Rhapsodies which are going to happen this year. So I'm really happy with all the new stuff from the last few years, and quite excited about the Big Finale content too.

On the subject of jobpoints/SU, as I said before, I love jobpoints and the idea of SU is a great idea, but I wish they'd made SU gear totally JSE, so if you earn 100 jobpoints for WAR, which you have to earn on WAR only, that unlocks SU 1&2 brackets on WAR only, but then the SU gear is for multiple jobs and isn't really connected to WAR abilities. So I think SU should have been JSE, but I still really love Jobpoints and I think the Gifts system is a really great idea. It is one of many extremely positive changes that have been added in the last 18 months, and I do really thank SE for the effort they've put into keeping FFXI enjoyable despite the dwindling playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malthar

Grekumah,

You guys really should turn over development to us, the players, because the devs seem to get more clueless as time goes on.

Seriously, though. It would be a win-win for all those involved. SE can lease FFXI to a group of devs/players voted on by the FFXI community, probably the windower folks. They would in turn develop FFXI for minimal compensation and charge the player base enough so that SE can make a decent profit and pay for the server hosting. Yes, yes, I know how you guys feel about unofficial third party software, but from what I've heard, they've done a darn good job improving the play-ability of FFXI. Being an XBOX player, and considering the ultimate demise of FFXI on XBOX, I would like to see most of what is implemented in windower standard in FFXI. The development team has been following this trend anyway. And yes, I know the development environment is from the PS2 standpoint, and to continue maintaining FFXI a whole new environment would have to be put together and the code revamped and that would be as difficult as making a new MMO from scratch, but the player base dev community can actually make that happen! You can lease the game and the concept, the player base dev community would rejuvinate FFXI to come up to 2015 standards, and all SE would have to do is to make sure the general theme of FFXI is adhered to and reap in the dough! It's a win-win!

So how about it? Lease FFXI and concept to the player base development community so that we, the players, can have a better game with better expansions, and SE can have a cash cow with virtually zero maintenance. It's a win-win!

---

Not to rain on your parade because I enjoy your enthusiasm and putting it out there, but I don't really think that would be the best idea, I can detail why:
1) FFXI unlike many MMOs broke the mold and decided to lead rather than follow. It has many original ideas and is unlike any other MMO I have ever played, this is because SE bets on their own ideas and takes reasonable risks. They did the same with XIV but it was incomplete at launch and flopped, and now it has to be a follower rather than a leader, copying popular game design and asking the players what they would want. This is a fine way to make a game, don't get me wrong, but it is not a great way to make something unique and wonderful the world never has seen before, like FFXI.
2) Communities can get very out of control very quickly. While open source makes things easier to develop and get lots of work on it has the very big issue of without someone making the shots on what gets worked on in what priority and coming up with original ideas, giving players unexpected things than it will slowly become simply something the players (not all of them but the loud minority usually or those with ties to those in charge) wish to see. This will ostracize many.
3) Drama is inherent whenever you get a group of people with conflicting interests and have them try to work together, not to mention differing ideologies and best practices for dev... at that point it would become meteoric. Throw in different people wanting to be in charge and feeling they should be in charge and I see it as nothing but a nightmare.
4) SE has already made the decision to move the game to a native app, in other words a game built from the ground up with new dev tools, for android and iOS. I highly doubt they will ever jeopardize the success of that project by making a competing version. If they're smart though, which I hope they do, they will allow characters people have poured 14 years into, to continue to exist. That is a lot of time, gone. And they will alienate their core audience if they don't keep the characters alive.

I realize many players have justifiable reasons to be upset with SE. One can look at the outstanding bug list, the balance issues and so on, though I will say on balance that a perfectly balanced game rarely exists and is rarely interesting, balance changing is part of what keeps the game engaging and alive. I think they do a great job for their team size however, in the amount of content they develop. If SE seems somewhat disconnected from players, just remember, that's the reason FFXI is unique in the first place. This core group of people are allowed to exercise their own ideas. Which is rare in development of any kind. Catering to player wishes is what FFXIV has ended up having to do, but it's not the higher road. To me, it is like the artsy movie that comes out and sweeps up a ton of awards, versus the summer movie fodder meant to be crowd pleasers. If you just ask a ton of people what they want to see and go on that, you'll get the fun, but unmemorable summer action flick, forgotten before the summer is even out. If you give a core group of talented artistic people the ability to exercise their unique vision, sometimes you get a home run that lasts. FFXI if anything has lasted, and I think their development cycle though often a frustration and seems disconnected from players, is the same place that all the things we love and care about in FFXI came from. You can't have one without the other. Handing it over to a community would not be a good decision, they already have plans to remake the title for phones and tablets, and the best we can hope for now is the preservation of years and days of game-play in the form of character data.

I also wish to clarify, hoping my metaphors made clear my points above, I don't think FFXIV is going anywhere anytime soon, and it is not completely the forgettable summer action flick, more a balance between that and some core ideas of SE's own. I feel you do feel that compromise though when you play, and it holds your hand much the same way WoW and other popular MMO's that it was modeled after do. One could argue that FFXI in some ways modeled itself after everquest, which is true, but it took such a unique different direction.