Ok...let me level with you here SE...

Atoreis is just being Atoreis as always and refusing to admit he could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Atoreis is just being Atoreis as always and refusing to admit he could be wrong.

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Nope I said that they could obviously troll me with saying items will be for upg empy then change it to stage 2.
That would be very wrong and rude tho (cant use harder words here) but I know its possible but highly unlikely.

No, it wouldnt be wrong or rude at all. They didn't make you start collecting those items. You choose to do so. ANYTHING that is on the test server can be changed before it goes live.

I don't really agree with SE that often, but in this case, thats on you, not them.

First Post

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*New Magian trials for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons have been delayed to allow time for proper balancing.
They are scheduled to be introduced to the test server in the near future and implemented in the release version in an additional version update.
The items required for the trials, however, have been introduced in advance in this version update.

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Second post

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* Stage 1　※The number of items required for upgrade is temporary.
Weapon Classification Trial Information
Relic Weapons Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 20 Umbral Marrow
Mythic Weapons Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 10 Mulcibar’s Scoria
Verethragna/Almace/Farsha/Redemption/Rhongomiant/Masamune/Gandiva/Daurdabla Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 60 Riftcinder
Twashtar/Caladbolg/Ukonvasara/Kannagi/Gambanteinn/Hvergelmir/Armageddon/Ochain Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 60 Riftdross

* Stage 2　※The number of items required for upgrade is temporary.
Weapon Classification Trial Information
Relic Weapons Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 1,000 Umbral Marrow
Mythic Weapons Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 500 Mulcibar’s Scoria
Verethragna/Almace/Farsha/Redemption/Rhongomiant/Masamune/Gandiva/Daurdabla Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 3,000 Riftcinder
Twashtar/Caladbolg/Ukonvasara/Kannagi/Gambanteinn/Hvergelmir/Armageddon/Ochain Trial: Retrieve a set quantity of the assigned item.
Objective: 3,000 Riftdross

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Tables broke, too lazy to fix it. The word "temporary" means "not final"...meaning it can change to something significantly lower, they can remove the item(s) for stage 1 upgrades. They could make it not based on Marrows, or they could adjust the drops, both drop count and drop places, so the rough value per Marrow isnt 20+ million gil, meaning if you've been farming them / buying them (LOL), you've done bad move.


The problem here now, is relics. Something majority seems to agree on at this point. I have no problem with Riftcinder/dross, and with the 10x zeni turnin, I have no problem with mythics...so once again, the problem is relics. The only people seemingly upset with mythics or emps are either ignorant, or expect their upgrade to be in their deliverybox after trading it to a moogle.

The problem with emps I find is the HMP's, 1500 is dumdum, but its too late to go back now cause those who have upgraded are gonna flip. I dont get how SE doesnt realize why we're raging at these numbers now. The last time a fkn absurd trial was put out on the test server (the 1500 HMP's), we didnt bitch about it cause we figured "lol thats a sick joke, theyre going to adjust that..."...and we waited...and we waited.....and....we......waited, and then it was never adjusted. So we bitch and raise our voices when something absurd is put out because we have to.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Nope I said that they could obviously troll me with saying items will be for upg empy then change it to stage 2.
That would be very wrong and rude tho (cant use harder words here) but I know its possible but highly unlikely.

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I open a new restaurant and, being mentally unwell, I experiment with charging people in severed heads rather than money. The food is really good, though, so I have a few customers.

A week later, I'm back on my medication and it occurs to me that rotting severed heads smell really bad. Also, business is pretty bad. I begin accepting money instead of severed heads.

This sucks for the guy who has been keeping his chainsaw well-oiled, his freezer full of severed heads, and a run-down state park full of headless corpses; but it's a good decision overall.

This analogy doesn't fit the Empyrean 99 so much as it fits the Relic 99 upgrade, but the general idea is the same. I don't think replacing a bad idea with a better idea is ever wrong, and making changes is the whole reason the test server exists.

I personally think it would be pretty dumb if the Development Bros totally changed the Empyrean trials just because they were totally changing trials for Mythics and Relics, but I still wouldn't consider that change wrong.

If you do anything based on the test server, it's best to see it as an educated gamble with the odds in your favor.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

The problem with emps I find is the HMP's, 1500 is dumdum, but its too late to go back now cause those who have upgraded are gonna flip.

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They probably should have waited then. Shit like that is why I don't even log in anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

The problem with emps I find is the HMP's, 1500 is dumdum, but its too late to go back now cause those who have upgraded are gonna flip.

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Who cares? SE has made shit easier that cost many people millions in gil before, whats stopping them with HMPs?

If someones gonna bitch about 1500 plates to get a 95 then should others complain for doing CoP pre-nerf? For doing relic killshot trials before the reduction? For Nyzul before the fix? Salvage? Cmon, we all know when you do things ahead of the wave you might get burned.

SE needs to get real and adjust the trial down to reasonable numbers. It doesn't need to be Carabosse tier easy but something reasonable and not requiring 150M for a marginal gain would be a start.

500-750 plates would be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

If someones gonna bitch about 1500 plates to get a 95 then should others complain for doing CoP pre-nerf? For doing relic killshot trials before the reduction? For Nyzul before the fix? Salvage? Cmon, we all know when you do things ahead of the wave you might get burned.

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I'm not disagreeing with you at all. But in each of those examples, people did complain.

Natural progression would have been 150 plates honestly, but at this point I'd agree on 500-750 as well.

As for the theoretical numbers on the final trials themselves .... no need to stir the hornet nest. The dev's already have said the items are a pretty much an assured deal so it's a good time to start bartering for reasonable numbers. I will finally agree that perhaps kills on ADL would be a better stage 1 alternative but only if they create multiple spawn points ... or the entire rant-fest will still be a crap-end stick. Yet it would also be reasonable to say if they change the relic to kills they should change the mythic to kills as well. I say this quite frankly as it's the same progression as gaining pop trophy-items with the ADDED burden of playing FF safari hunter. Increased zeni or no, it's still a utilization of hours of time and organization .. after the crap sandwich that is the mythic quest itself.

Empyrean is fine as long as further monsters to drop the dross/cinder are added as well as bag/pouch for them because frankly the tiny handful of mobs on plates and plate pouches is seriously a bummer.

Killshots dont really work because you'll wind up with the same problem once you eventually finish everyones relic: whos gonna come for 20 ADL's for no reward?

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Killshots dont really work because you'll wind up with the same problem once you eventually finish everyones relic: whos gonna come for 20 ADL's for no reward?

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Your LS mates. Or, even if they're selfish dicks and wouldn't want to, it would still be easier to find other people to team up with, considering relics are easier to make and they keep popping up left and right. Deals could be brokered, statics could be formed, compromises could be made, it would by no means be perfect, but it would be doable. Especially if they lower the required amount. Unlike 20 items to obtain, which is realistically speaking impossible.

Anyway you look at it, killshots will always be better than collecting items, even in its worst case (doing it for just one person, a situation which is unlikely to arise).

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

Add a pouch to ADL is the obvious way to go with this. Chance for up to 10 people to get an item from 1 kill. Add a chance for singles to drop from some other NMs throughout the zone too and you're golden.

In theory, all 18 members of the alliance can get a Riftdross per run (highly unlikely, but possible). And you could farm them until the cows come home, and get the whole trial done in a day.

The responses we are getting are simply translations of posts made to the JP players on this subject, they aren't really aimed at anyone here.

I think they have some plans for relic upgrades to make this trial less retarded, they are just enjoying seeing us rage (or want to give a false sense of communication when they do add them), they are just keeping them secret for now.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming.

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I disagree, but not for the reason you posted. I made a post in the forum for testing, but I feel that it would be better to change the trial to kills and not items; at least for the relics. I DO NOT want the trials to be made easier because I like the idea of working toward a worthy goal, but I would like to see the trial made to reward all those who participate and not just one person.

My proposal is to remove the item requirement and increase the number of kills required. In this way, you reward everyone who participates and it even encourages smaller groups to come together to complete goals. Bring back a little bit of the sense of community that people had when larger groups and cooperation were required to complete certain tasks.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

I disagree, but not for the reason you posted. I made a post in the forum for testing, but I feel that it would be better to change the trial to kills and not items; at least for the relics. I DO NOT want the trials to be made easier because I like the idea of working toward a worthy goal, but I would like to see the trial made to reward all those who participate and not just one person.

My proposal is to remove the item requirement and increase the number of kills required. In this way, you reward everyone who participates and it even encourages smaller groups to come together to complete goals. Bring back a little bit of the sense of community that people had when larger groups and cooperation were required to complete certain tasks.

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How about ppl that dont want to upg relic and are needed for kill? they wont be rewarded at all.
Far better suggestion is the one made by bebekeke. Add pouch and more drop sources and split items so the ones who need can get for themself and the ones who dont can have gils from selling.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

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Bulls**t.

All I said was that if SE changes the requirement for stage 1 lvl 99 empyrean weapon, it's all on you, you took a gamble and you lost.

As for the lvl 95 and 99 empyrean trials, I think they are harsh due to the low drop rates on both plates and riftcinder/riftdross. I'm currently working on 95 Ukon, buying plates here and there as well as joining shout groups, but I refuse to dedicate 100% of my online time to this trial. That'll burn me out faster than anything else, and I don't want that to happen, this is a game and not a job. So it'll take a while for me to finish, and I can live with that.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Your LS mates. Or, even if they're selfish dicks and wouldn't want to, it would still be easier to find other people to team up with, considering relics are easier to make and they keep popping up left and right. Deals could be brokered, statics could be formed, compromises could be made, it would by no means be perfect, but it would be doable. Especially if they lower the required amount. Unlike 20 items to obtain, which is realistically speaking impossible.

Anyway you look at it, killshots will always be better than collecting items, even in its worst case (doing it for just one person, a situation which is unlikely to arise).

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/sh Looking for people to kill ADL for relic 99 upgrade
BST>> I'm in
BST>> invite to join party
BST>> I'm in
BST>> invite to join party
PLD>> I'll come
THF>> I'm in
BST>> I'm in
BST>> invite to join party

Thats gonna get you really far...cause your support team wont want to waste another 4 weeks dynamis time then they've already lost. Remember each person is accountable for roughly 100 currency in dynamis (its a rough estimate, I'm aware bst can do ~170 solo, but I'm also aware bst can do 50 when most of their yellow mobs get jacked), and at 8k/currency, thats 800k lost not including forgottens, over 30 days, thats 24 million gil you're essentially taking from someone.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

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You have 99 items for emp weapons, we get it. No ones saying the Emp trial at 99 is ridiculous, the ridiculous portion is the HMP, because theres MAYBE 30 emps (I'm guessing, we can all agree its NOT a lot) at lv95 across all the servers since the induction of HMP's, which was introduced over 4 months ago. We get it, you bought up riftdross/cinder in advance, congrats.

None of ANYTHING in this thread has ANYTHING to do with Empyrean weapon upgrades. It has everything to do with Mythics and Relics...the mythics was mostly resolved with the change to zeni, and anyone complaining is just buthurt they cant finish in 2 days. I get it, you had to farm 30k alex and kill the beastmen kings and BLAH BLAH BLAH then kill a t4 ZNM 3 times then kill a salvage boss 3 times (the only real tedious trial is the alex btw, the rest is negligible, or should have previously been done doing older content). So were left with relics, a currently proposed trial that forces 17 people to piss away a month of their own dynamis time, their own currency and/or missing AF2 and/or missing AF2-1 and/or forgotten item farming time, so someone can upgrade a relic to 99...in a fight that is ENTIRELY luck based, for ONE relic.

So please, drop the BS "stop whining and start farming", you cant just get up and go "hey im gonna go join an ADL shout group" like you can for your riftdross, cause guess what: ADL doesnt get killed.

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Originally Posted by Scribble

I disagree, but not for the reason you posted. I made a post in the forum for testing, but I feel that it would be better to change the trial to kills and not items; at least for the relics. I DO NOT want the trials to be made easier because I like the idea of working toward a worthy goal, but I would like to see the trial made to reward all those who participate and not just one person.

My proposal is to remove the item requirement and increase the number of kills required. In this way, you reward everyone who participates and it even encourages smaller groups to come together to complete goals. Bring back a little bit of the sense of community that people had when larger groups and cooperation were required to complete certain tasks.

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Please people stop suggesting killshots. You're going to run into the same problem down the line when there are a handful of 95 relics.
Look at the 95 cap fight, anyone who missed the initial wave is still at 95, or quit because they cant find anyone to do the fight.

I started buying riftdross too =| But there's also a bunch of JPs doing it, so I don't feel bad.

I bumped the price on my server to 1mil each too~
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

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Quit stroking your e-peen for a second and realize most people are complaining about the relic trials.

You got 1,500 HMPs and 60 Riftdross, well done; you've proven you're willing to put up with the crap the devs keep feeding us. Let us know when you finish afterglow so we can slap you for being as retarded as they are for actually supporting this content.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

Quit stroking your e-peen for a second and realize most people are complaining about the relic trials.

You got 1,500 HMPs and 60 Riftdross, well done; you've proven you're willing to put up with the crap the devs keep feeding us. Let us know when you finish afterglow so we can slap you for being as retarded as they are for actually supporting this content.

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Learn to read first or stop posting.

Whole part of my posts about Empyrean trial was an answer to other posts about Empyrean trial.
Whole part about relic trial was an answer to other posts about relic trial.

Idk how I should edit my posts so you and Nynja could see that I'm writing TWO different opinion about TWO different trials. Maybe I should write one part with Capslock and n other color? Lets try:

Items needed to upgrade Relic/Mythic/Empyreans went on live server and changing them will be a very bad move by SE which probably wont be done. Only thing that can be done is to make those items easier to get which SE is doing atm by adjusting zeni per photo. <- that was the part about Empyrean and Mythics

RELIC TRIAL WHICH IS VERY BAD ATM SHOULD BE FIXED BY ADJUSTING AMOUNT OF ITEMS THAT ADL CAN DROP (POUCHES FOR EXAMPLE LIKE SOMEONE SUGGESTED) OR ADD THOSE ITEMS TO OTHER MOBS LIKE ARCH BOSSES FROM OTHER DYNAMIS ZONES. STOP SUGGEST TO CHANGE WHOLE TRIAL BECAUSE SE WONT DO IT BECAUSE ITEMS ALREADY WENT TO LIVE SERVER AND THEY WONT BE CHANGED. INSTEAD SUGGEST A WAY TO MAKE THOSE ITEMS EASIER TO GET (OR WAYS TO REWARD PPL THAT NEED TO HELP YOU). <- That was a part about relic trial

I was writing the same thing now in several posts and I hope this time you can actually stop taking the lines that fill to your awesome answers and try to read and understand 100% of the post.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think you still cant understand that WHAT items are needed for trial went to LIVE server and only thing that was not ready and temporary at test server was Amount of those items require to upg. In which case only thing that I should risk is amount of those items I decide to gather before this temporary number will finally go live.
I also gathered Riftdross not marrows lol.

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h). I farmed/got those dross between gathering coins for his 3rd relic so I have no idea how ppl can say its hard to gather 1500 HMP and 60 dross.
Relic trial is stupid but to fix it they should add more drops to ADL and maybe add one 100% drop from normal DL not change whole trial to something else.

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150M + 120M to finish an Emp isn't reasonable to most regardless of your ability to finish the trial beforehand. Now we know the exact number of cinder/dross to finish, the prices have skyrocketed to 1-3M/pc with cinder being rare because well.. Botulus Rex isn't exactly a walk in the park.

I can only imagine how much cinder will cost once desperate people start throwing money at it.

You also fail to realize you've got good resources in your friends that other people simply cannot match. Perhaps others friends quit, perhaps work schedule makes FFXI a 3-4hr/day experience, perhaps farming Dynamis daily to grind out coin doesn't sound ideal, perhaps some people have no friends or perhaps people don't care to buy a dualbox to play the game. Toss in the fact that soon new events will divert attention away from Voidwatch and you have a scenario where supply could plummet and prices skyrocket a la Alexandrite.

Maybe cinder/dross/plates will be Legion buyable. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Bottom line is an emp shouldn't cost more than a relic when it was sold to the public as a casual weapon for people who don't care to make FFXI a fulltime grinding operation yet with the current prices it will outpace a relic just to get two trials done. Ridiculous.

SE being SE can't even be arsed to make HMPs 100%/kill which would still require 1500 kills in Voidwatch to complete a trial or drive the prices out of the stratosphere.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Idk how I should edit my posts so you and Nynja could see that I'm writing TWO different opinion about TWO different trials. Maybe I should write one part with Capslock and n other color? Lets try:

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So you're saying this is just about relics...

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

You all disagree because you are in those 99% that obviously want trial to be easier.
All I want to tell you is stop whining and start farming. I have items for 99 ready for a month now and I share all gils with my friend and we both have work (normal 5 days a week 8h).

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you have 40 Umbral Marrows allready?!? Wait...you dont, you're talking about emps?
Then why are you telling everyone to "stop whining and start farming"? Oh, cause you're dumdum.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Items needed to upgrade Relic/Mythic/Empyreans went on live server and changing them will be a very bad move by SE which probably wont be done.

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Are the trials on the live server? Oh...no they're not. Once again, all SE has confirmed so far is that those 4 items will be required for the final stage, not specifying if its for stage 1 or 2, because at the time of confirmation, there was no stage 1 and 2. SE has then made a secondary post, with temporary preliminary numbers, maybe to see how the players would react...and they've reacted REALLY bad. Not one person has said the emp trial of 60 rift's is bad, so why have you brought up the fact you have the items for the 99 emp upgrade 4 times in 3 posts?

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Learn to read first or stop posting.
...
RELIC TRIAL WHICH IS VERY BAD ATM SHOULD BE FIXED BY ADJUSTING AMOUNT OF ITEMS THAT ADL CAN DROP (POUCHES FOR EXAMPLE LIKE SOMEONE SUGGESTED) OR ADD THOSE ITEMS TO OTHER MOBS LIKE ARCH BOSSES FROM OTHER DYNAMIS ZONES. STOP SUGGEST TO CHANGE WHOLE TRIAL BECAUSE SE WONT DO IT BECAUSE ITEMS ALREADY WENT TO LIVE SERVER AND THEY WONT BE CHANGED. INSTEAD SUGGEST A WAY TO MAKE THOSE ITEMS EASIER TO GET (OR WAYS TO REWARD PPL THAT NEED TO HELP YOU). <- That was a part about relic trial

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Perhaps you should take your own advice and "learn to read or stop posting". I've suggested this multiple times already, in this thread, and I'm going to quote it again, because it was back on page 4:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

To quell the rage, they're going to have to either:
a-Make it kills, not item turn-in This is no longer a good idea, refer to 95 cap fight
b-make Umbral Marrow / Mulcibar's Scoria drop from additional sources based on difficulty:
Arch Dynamis City boss: 1 Marrow
Arch Mainyu / Arch CC/Antaeus/AB: 3 marrow
Arch Diabolos: 5 marrow
Arch DL: 8 marrow

Tinnin/Sarameya/Khimaira(I forget the name haha): 1 Mulcibar
PW: 5 Mulcibar

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the numbers of arch NM's should probably be higher to scale with difficulty/legwork involved, and some NM's could be added: Dynamis Lord for one.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

So were left with relics, a currently proposed trial that forces 17 people to piss away a month of their own dynamis time, their own currency and/or missing AF2 and/or missing AF2-1 and/or forgotten item farming time, so someone can upgrade a relic to 99...in a fight that is ENTIRELY luck based, for ONE relic.

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Many of the arguments I see regarding "forcing 17 people" to come to ADL assume that all of them enter Dyna everyday to do their own stuff, and thus they are "giving up 1-3 mill" in opportunity cost. While this may be true in many instances, I would submit that the people who are trying to farm 1-3 mill each day in Dynamis are by and large the people who are trying to obtain Relic/Mythic of their own. But there are plenty of people who aren't working on Relic/Mythic. And Forgotten can be purchased for pretty cheap nowadays. I personally have no need to step into Dyna except for Arch Boss fights and drops.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Bottom line is an emp shouldn't cost more than a relic when it was sold to the public as a casual weapon for people who don't care to make FFXI a fulltime grinding operation yet with the current prices it will outpace a relic just to get two trials done. Ridiculous.

SE being SE can't even be arsed to make HMPs 100%/kill which would still require 1500 kills in Voidwatch to complete a trial or drive the prices out of the stratosphere.

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So much this for me. SE isn't just now going off the deep end, they already did that with the preposterous 1500 HMP trial for Empyreans. Now they're going from real life mental instability to full on comic book super villain insanity.

As you say, Empyreans were supposed to be for the rest of us. I'm working on my first and probably only one now. I hoped it would be something I'd be able to complete, but I know that as things stand, that can never happen. It will never go past the level 90 stage. It could have if SE hadn't completely jumped the shark on trial difficulty for the 95 stage, but they did and right now it looks like there's no turning back.

Once I get to level 90 with my Empyrean what's left for me and those like me? I thought I would have a realistic means of advancement, but it seems I won't. They've put furthering our Empyreans out of reach, and Mythics were always that way. Level 75 relics are more obtainable than they used to be, but then many of us will run into a wall just as with our Empyreans.

Is SE cool with someone like me feeling stuck? Would they like us to see nothing but unreachable goals and decide to leave the game? Would they like us to resort to RMT? Digging 1500 plates and 60 rift whatevers out of the trash dumpster known as Voidwatch is about as realistic a goal as winning rank 1 in the Mog Bonanza. Buying them would require many of us to win said rank 1 Mog Bonanza more than once.

I'm just trying to warn you SE, that the direction you're going in will backfire. Your goal is to keep people around, but you're doing anything but.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Many of the arguments I see regarding "forcing 17 people" to come to ADL assume that all of them enter Dyna everyday to do their own stuff, and thus they are "giving up 1-3 mill" in opportunity cost. While this may be true in many instances, I would submit that the people who are trying to farm 1-3 mill each day in Dynamis are by and large the people who are trying to obtain Relic/Mythic of their own. But there are plenty of people who aren't working on Relic/Mythic. And Forgotten can be purchased for pretty cheap nowadays. I personally have no need to step into Dyna except for Arch Boss fights and drops.

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Again thats still you. How many people refuse to go back into dyna at all after grinding it for years for their northlands (hi rdms/thfs) AF2. All things come into play when trying to talk 17 other people into doing something as been pointed out with just trying to get 3 to 5 people to do the limit break. Wonder why its hard to do that people get tired of doing it over and over for no reward. The shadow items are not enough to get people to waste their time for a spot in waiting in line/lotting for them for a high chance of coming out the other side with nothing.

Atoreis pretty much said in his first post he doesnt want us to whine about the relic trial stage 1 because hes scared that SE will also change the empy stage 1 trial due to "balance". We told him thats the risk he took for buying those items early.

Now hes just trying to backpeddle and save face.

Empyreans would cost, with 60 dross/cinder for basic and 3,000 for afterglow, assuming 1.5m dross/cinder which is in the middle of the high/low, and 100k per plate:

240,000,000 for the basic 99 trial (+5 stat and +10~25 base damage depending on the weapon)

4,650,000,000 for the afterglow


How is that reasonable Atoreis.

Hint: it isn't.

Btw, if curious, if each cinder/dross cost 3m, it'd cost 9,150,000,000. Nine billion gil. The difference between, using Ukonvasara as an example, a lv90 weapon and 99 weapon is 7% DoT.

you cant really guage a value for dross/cinder now because the trial isnt even out, and come next patch the next chapter of VW will be out...those items may drop in greater quantity.

all u have now is dumdums rushing to get their 5 minutes of fame for being ZOMGFIRST

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Again thats still you. How many people refuse to go back into dyna at all after grinding it for years for their northlands (hi rdms/thfs) AF2. All things come into play when trying to talk 17 other people into doing something as been pointed out with just trying to get 3 to 5 people to do the limit break. Wonder why its hard to do that people get tired of doing it over and over for no reward. The shadow items are not enough to get people to waste their time for a spot in waiting in line/lotting for them for a high chance of coming out the other side with nothing.

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Yeah, didn't really count on the people who have Dyna PTSD. I was busy counting the people who want Arch Boss drops in Xarca and other zones. I might be the only one though! :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

you cant really guage a value for dross/cinder now because the trial isnt even out, and come next patch the next chapter of VW will be out...those items may drop in greater quantity.

all u have now is dumdums rushing to get their 5 minutes of fame for being ZOMGFIRST

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And it ruins the game for the rest of us with other shit we want to do (in AND out of game)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

you cant really guage a value for dross/cinder now because the trial isnt even out, and come next patch the next chapter of VW will be out...those items may drop in greater quantity.

all u have now is dumdums rushing to get their 5 minutes of fame for being ZOMGFIRST

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Except that Jeuno Part 2 doesn't drop Heavy Metal Plates.

My guess would be that Zilart part 2 drops pouches. If they do make a Zilart part 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

My guess would be that Zilart part 2 drops pouches. If they do make a Zilart part 2.

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I'd like that, but I've learned not to get my hopes up. I think the Devs are fully capable of expecting players to continuously do lower tiers if they want drops for Empyrean upgrades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Except that Jeuno Part 2 doesn't drop Heavy Metal Plates.

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Except the use for rift cinder/dross isnt even in game yet, its actual use should coincide with the creation of the next tier of voidwatch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Except the use for rift cinder/dross isnt even in game yet, its actual use should coincide with the creation of the next tier of voidwatch

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You are trying to mix logic with SE logic, thats like crossing the streams.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Many of the arguments I see regarding "forcing 17 people" to come to ADL assume that all of them enter Dyna everyday to do their own stuff, and thus they are "giving up 1-3 mill" in opportunity cost. While this may be true in many instances, I would submit that the people who are trying to farm 1-3 mill each day in Dynamis are by and large the people who are trying to obtain Relic/Mythic of their own. But there are plenty of people who aren't working on Relic/Mythic. And Forgotten can be purchased for pretty cheap nowadays. I personally have no need to step into Dyna except for Arch Boss fights and drops.

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If a guy doesn't do dynamis every day despite the fact that he could make 1-3 mil.....what makes you think he's going to do dynamis for you?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

If a guy doesn't do dynamis every day despite the fact that he could make 1-3 mil.....what makes you think he's going to do dynamis for you?

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For the last sentence of my post that you quoted. Or if it's an LS event. Definitely don't think ADL is PUG content.

Someone needs to show me how to make '1-3 mil' per dyna run ><

Is it just from BST solo?