DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Rant about why everyone should be the same

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Duelle nailed it. People identify with some jobs more than others. Playing both MNK and WAR makes my stomache hurt for whatever reason. I really just don't like them. Why should I be forced to play one job over another just because SE fucked up on some jobs and overpowered others?

I never said don't play it, I never said everyone should be the same, I was asking a question.

The gameplay is NEARLY the same. DRG gets to jump, DRK gets to stun, while SAM and WAR are essentially the COMPLETE same. Seriously, just one does more damage and looks different. And while you should fight to fix your jobs, I don't see the need to not have all of them leveled just so you can be at the top for whatever SE brings your way. The only real difference between the jobs is 1. Damage output, and 2. aesthetics. They look different.

Did you wear Walahra Turban because it looked good?

I understand why people want a job to get better, I would love DRK to get better because I love the way it looks. Till then I'm playing WAR.

Now if you had spent 5 years obtaining a Mythic or Relic weapon, I can see why you could complain. However, 85% of the people complaining play casually and with Abyssea you can get the best gear in less than a day.

Question: What is it about WAR that could possibly make you sick? MNK I can understand because TP is so slow in comparison, but WAR? Doesn't make sense since you're literally doing the same thing as a DRK would do.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I never said don't play it, I never said everyone should be the same, I was asking a question.

The gameplay is NEARLY the same. DRG gets to jump, DRK gets to stun, while SAM and WAR are essentially the COMPLETE same. Seriously, just one does more damage and looks different. And while you should fight to fix your jobs, I don't see the need to not have all of them leveled just so you can be at the top for whatever SE brings your way. The only real difference between the jobs is 1. Damage output, and 2. aesthetics. They look different.

Did you wear Walahra Turban because it looked good?

I understand why people want a job to get better, I would love DRK to get better because I love the way it looks. Till then I'm playing WAR.

Now if you had spent 5 years obtaining a Mythic or Relic weapon, I can see why you could complain. However, 85% of the people complaining play casually and with Abyssea you can get the best gear in less than a day.

Question: What is it about WAR that could possibly make you sick? MNK I can understand because TP is so slow in comparison, but WAR? Doesn't make sense since you're literally doing the same thing as a DRK would do.

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So you come on a DRK thread and tell us all to lvl war?

You say that DRK and war are the same?

You are very ignorant about DRK. First off DRK does have mp and that cna lead to several advatages. Absorb TP means faster ws's, Drain I & II means longer life, Dread spikes means mild tanking, and endark means more dmg. Second we are the premier stunners as we are the only job with 2 native stuns. Finally you play DRK and war completely different.

I would never ever say to someone stop complaining and level this job instead because this game is about having fun and if you enjoy the job then your having fun. Now imagine if you enjoy the job but SE is constantly buffing everyone else's jobs to god level and not helping your? Then you'd be upset. Now you have war lvl 90 so obviously your not complaining because you have the mother of all broken jobs at level 90. The rest of us are rather upset at SE because they keep messing up the balance of the game.

I too have mnk lvl 90 and I enjoy playing mnk, however I enjoy PUP and DRK far more, and war just upsets me, even before abyssea getting it to 37 was very annoying. Still if someone was complaining about a job I would never tell them go level PUP or DRK because I like them more or go level mnk and war because they deal the most damage because thats not the issue, the issue is balance.

Don’t fret dark knights! These example adjustments are just that…examples. It doesn’t mean that every single thing is going to be implemented as stated. All of your suggestions and opinions on these concepts will be relayed to the development team and they will of course consider them when actually creating the adjustments to be implemented. Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

But casting magic isn't something that DRKs excel at. It's not the way DRK is played by a majority of the players. I don't have to have it leveled to 90 to know that.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

But casting magic isn't something that DRKs excel at. It's not the way DRK is played by a majority of the players. I don't have to have it leveled to 90 to know that.

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You're stuck in the box. You need to step outside and consider how having different damage types can be used to ones advantage. People are getting to stuck on the fact that they could take more damage for the sake of dealing more magical damage but fail to realize that there are instances where maybe magic is the only form of damage possible or an enemies AOE is threatening so it's better to stand back and attack from afar.

You also need to keep in mind DRK does have Occult amen, so what if with this ability in mind, while the first one they consider lowers TP gains, the one where you can deal more magical based damage but take more damage could increase the amount of TP you gain through occult amen. The JA they had in mind says nothing about lowering your offensive power or anything like that but a chance to enhance your magical damage.

Comments like this just don't consider the advantage of being versatile in combat. It's better to be able to do magic and melee damage cause sure while maybe your magic isn't as strong you aren't hindered by mobs with high evasion, that resist melee damage, or use PLD/THF 2hrs multiple times. In all those instances you may find yourself able to perform better by activating the JA that would increase your dmg you take for the ability to dish out more damage with your magic.

Thank you Camate for at least answering us, I can speak for everyone who has posted or read this when I say that any response from SE is welcome. I still really hope that they take more ideas from the DRK forum or at least base ideas from there. Also as stated the magic ability would be a decent idea if used as a stance with the other side being a more physical side, kinda like Hasso/seigan being offensive and defensive but with drk being pure damage just physical and magical. Finally please come up with some new nukes for drk only, ones that play the role of enfeebling an opponent while doing some extra damage.

im all for sacrificing to gain, as long as the gains arent elemental in nature

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Seems that way. Ha.

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Get 100 TP.
Activate Ability
???
Profit.

I think the ??? is obvious.

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Originally Posted by Airget

You're stuck in the box. You need to step outside and consider how having different damage types can be used to ones advantage. People are getting to stuck on the fact that they could take more damage for the sake of dealing more magical damage but fail to realize that there are instances where maybe magic is the only form of damage possible or an enemies AOE is threatening so it's better to stand back and attack from afar.

You also need to keep in mind DRK does have Occult amen, so what if with this ability in mind, while the first one they consider lowers TP gains, the one where you can deal more magical based damage but take more damage could increase the amount of TP you gain through occult amen. The JA they had in mind says nothing about lowering your offensive power or anything like that but a chance to enhance your magical damage.

Comments like this just don't consider the advantage of being versatile in combat. It's better to be able to do magic and melee damage cause sure while maybe your magic isn't as strong you aren't hindered by mobs with high evasion, that resist melee damage, or use PLD/THF 2hrs multiple times. In all those instances you may find yourself able to perform better by activating the JA that would increase your dmg you take for the ability to dish out more damage with your magic.

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One possibility would be allowing Dark Knight to convert any damage into the element of their choice... Effectively allowing them to do things like deal unresisted magic damage based on their STR/ATK by sacrificing TP gain. Would effectively let them bypass high mob defense and deal massive damage in the element of their choosing.

Just an idea

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Originally Posted by Camate

Don’t fret dark knights! These example adjustments are just that…examples. It doesn’t mean that every single thing is going to be implemented as stated. All of your suggestions and opinions on these concepts will be relayed to the development team and they will of course consider them when actually creating the adjustments to be implemented. Just keep in mind that their concept of dark knight, same as in the past, is that they sacrifice something in return for something else.

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I don't think anyone here is opposed to making sacrifices for boosts on DRK. The approach is what is angering people. Sacrificing TP means that you're making the 5-hit builds even more important to DRK play than before, and you're therefore inflating the value of store TP and haste (even more than they already are). Sacrificing TP gain for boosted auto-attacks doesn't do much when the majority of damage is actually through weapon skills (hence all the complaints about the lack of a crit WS for use in abyssea). Buffing elemental magic use is simply a bad idea since you'd need to build DRK use of elemental magic from the ground up due to them not having any native caster traits (unless you're looking to introduce the mechanics that would make this possible through gear, at which I'll be very disappointed). Then you have cast times on spells that are not stun, which so far the developers have not done anything about.

That being said, thanks for trying to reassure the DRK players out there. Now please do me a favor and do the same for the Thief and Red Mage players. DRKs aren't the only ones negatively reacting to this manifesto of yours.