Shaking up Supjobs

Subjobs in my opinion have gotten a little stale. If you are a melee job you sub warrior, casters tend to sub scholar. You sub dancer if you are solo, blech. When was the last time you saw someone sub something like dragoon? Probably back when Wyvern Earring was still relevant.

An there is the answer to making more interesting job and subjob combinations. A new series of equipment equipable for all jobs with latent effects that are only active with a certain job set as the subjob, much like those old level 30 BCNM earrings.

The items don't have to be earrings, but they should go in an accessory type slot. Then again this is only a suggestion. If the devs read this and don't have any plans of adding anything like it, that is fine.

I'm not really sure about the earring idea (People tend to just use DA/DW/M.Acc etc. earrings)
On the other hand, I'd like to see some adjustments to subjobs somehow. (The only reason to sub anything other than war/nin/dnc on a DD would be some specific JAs on rare occasions.)

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Subjobs in my opinion have gotten a little stale. If you are a melee job you sub warrior, casters tend to sub scholar. You sub dancer if you are solo, blech. When was the last time you saw someone sub something like dragoon? Probably back when Wyvern Earring was still relevant.

An there is the answer to making more interesting job and subjob combinations. A new series of equipment equipable for all jobs with latent effects that are only active with a certain job set as the subjob, much like those old level 30 BCNM earrings.

The items don't have to be earrings, but they should go in an accessory type slot. Then again this is only a suggestion. If the devs read this and don't have any plans of adding anything like it, that is fine.

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I sub DRG pretty often.

FYI: So far those sub still has a use:

Standard SJ:
/WAR: SAM RNG BLU DNC THF PUP COR
/SAM: RUN WAR DRK DRG
/RUN: Any melee doing delve
/NIN: RUN, and any melee doing higher BC
/DNC: Solo, dyna, BST and COR
/DRG: COR or none relic RNG
/BLU: PLD and RUN
/WHM: BRD, GEO or solo RUN
/SCH: RDM, WHM
/BLM: SCH, RDM, GEO mostly for stun
/RDM: BLM, GEO, WHM
/RNG: COR when racc is needed

12 SJ out of 22 jobs are often used in events.

SJ that's rarely used or extremely situational:
/THF: For flee moving in town or TH solo.
/SMN: When you need a pet to split dmg.
/BST: BLU spell hunt....if you're still learning spell
/DRK: Alternative SJ for stun
/BRD: for movement speed+
/COR: Solo EXP/CP maybe?

So that's 6 extra SJ that could have a use in rare situations.

SJ I can't think of a use at all:
/MNK: Ppl used to use it in abyssea, not anymore.
/GEO: Can't think of a use
/PLD: Can't think of a use as well
/PUP: Looks cute and that's it ;)

Seems only 4 SJ are completely useless, 6 are rarely used, 12 are used fairly often.

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Originally Posted by Dragomair

I'm not really sure about the earring idea (People tend to just use DA/DW/M.Acc etc. earrings)
On the other hand, I'd like to see some adjustments to subjobs somehow. (The only reason to sub anything other than war/nin/dnc on a DD would be some specific JAs on rare occasions.)

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Thank you for taking the time to read my post carefully. I like your attention to detail especially the part about how I said they didn't have to be earrings.

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Originally Posted by Afania

I sub DRG pretty often.

FYI: So far those sub still has a use:

Standard SJ:
/WAR: SAM RNG BLU DNC THF PUP COR
/SAM: RUN WAR DRK DRG
/RUN: Any melee doing delve
/NIN: RUN, and any melee doing higher BC
/DNC: Solo, dyna, BST and COR
/DRG: COR or none relic RNG
/BLU: PLD and RUN
/WHM: BRD, GEO or solo RUN
/SCH: RDM, WHM
/BLM: SCH, RDM, GEO mostly for stun
/RDM: BLM, GEO, WHM
/RNG: COR when racc is needed

12 SJ out of 22 jobs are often used in events.

SJ that's rarely used or extremely situational:
/THF: For flee moving in town or TH solo.
/SMN: When you need a pet to split dmg.
/BST: BLU spell hunt....if you're still learning spell
/DRK: Alternative SJ for stun
/BRD: for movement speed+
/COR: Solo EXP/CP maybe?

So that's 6 extra SJ that could have a use in rare situations.

SJ I can't think of a use at all:
/MNK: Ppl used to use it in abyssea, not anymore.
/GEO: Can't think of a use
/PLD: Can't think of a use as well
/PUP: Looks cute and that's it ;)

Seems only 4 SJ are completely useless, 6 are rarely used, 12 are used fairly often.

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You are looking at it the wrong way. My problem isn't some jobs aren't being used for subjobs, it's I feel pigeon holed into what I can subjob.

Any melee on high tier battlefield /NIN
Any melee in delve /RUN
Any one handed melee /WAR
Any two handed melee /SAM, unless you are a SAM in which case /WAR
Dynamis? better /DNC
BRD? /WHM
WHM & BLM I can't really see them picking RDM over SCH if they have it
RDM is probably going SCH too unless then need stun

I mean there are some jobs that have more freedom when it comes to making a choice on what to sub. I doubt anyone cares what a COR subs as long as they get their rolls. Likewise if a PLD is geared right they are indestructible no matter what they chose to sub.

However at the time of writing this now, I'm realizing what a pipe dream this is. The only time there is a choice to be made is when it doesn't matter. If there was some new equipment that made another subjob work, either it works better and becomes the new standard, or not and isn't wanted.

Hey now! COR is a very shooty shooty job, and /drg is awesome for enmity shedding. /dnc provides better benefits for a party (Haste Samba, higher ws frequency) and there's some arguments about /whm.

/RUN is not really true in anything but Foret is it?

WHM can /RDM for Frazzle in a rng party, or if there's a party with Melee AND rng. Also provides an awesome eva down buff, however little.

RDM/WHM for Stona.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ulth

Thank you for taking the time to read my post carefully. I like your attention to detail especially the part about how I said they didn't have to be earrings.



You are looking at it the wrong way. My problem isn't some jobs aren't being used for subjobs, it's I feel pigeon holed into what I can subjob.

Any melee on high tier battlefield /NIN
Any melee in delve /RUN
Any one handed melee /WAR
Any two handed melee /SAM, unless you are a SAM in which case /WAR
Dynamis? better /DNC
BRD? /WHM
WHM & BLM I can't really see them picking RDM over SCH if they have it
RDM is probably going SCH too unless then need stun

I mean there are some jobs that have more freedom when it comes to making a choice on what to sub. I doubt anyone cares what a COR subs as long as they get their rolls. Likewise if a PLD is geared right they are indestructible no matter what they chose to sub.

However at the time of writing this now, I'm realizing what a pipe dream this is. The only time there is a choice to be made is when it doesn't matter. If there was some new equipment that made another subjob work, either it works better and becomes the new standard, or not and isn't wanted.

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Originally Posted by Balloon

Hey now! COR is a very shooty shooty job, and /drg is awesome for enmity shedding. /dnc provides better benefits for a party (Haste Samba, higher ws frequency) and there's some arguments about /whm.

/RUN is not really true in anything but Foret is it?

WHM can /RDM for Frazzle in a rng party, or if there's a party with Melee AND rng. Also provides an awesome eva down buff, however little.

RDM/WHM for Stona.

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Melee can use /RUN in kamir as well, although it's possible to clear it without it, it's kinda just a defensive SJ+ extra magical dmg that makes your live easier while sacrificing your output.

/RDM has other use for WHM, mainly the buffs and debuffs like blind/dispel(/SCH has it, but you'd need to switch)/Distract/flurry when you don't have another RDM in pt.

Not all melee in delve /RUN, not all 1h melee /WAR, BLU has multiple SJ choices so does COR. Even in DD only situations ppl still debate between BLU/NIN or BLU/WAR, not to mention solo SJ like /DNC /WHM /RDM and /SCH, all of them has a use. Not all 2h melee /SAM, RUN sub NIN, WHM or BLU pretty often. /RDM has a use for BLM and WHM when you need specific spell access, RDM often /BLM for stun as well.

DRG often sub mage for solo as well.

You're only pigeon hole into 1 SJ if you insist to use 1 SJ.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

However at the time of writing this now, I'm realizing what a pipe dream this is. The only time there is a choice to be made is when it doesn't matter. If there was some new equipment that made another subjob work, either it works better and becomes the new standard, or not and isn't wanted.

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That's pretty much the gist of it. With a good back line with Scherzo and/or Earthern Armor, or a Geo doing -Att/-MAB as needed, or any number of other defensive options we have, along with melees knowing when to use a -DT set or full time a hybrid set, /Nin wouldn't have to be used. But no one wants to do that, because, and I'm being honest here, why would you? There's no need. It's typically far easier and efficient to just focus on beating the content quickly, because either the mob is not much of a threat, or what it has available to it that is a threat overcomes most of the options we have. It's the very nature of MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Balloon

Hey now! COR is a very shooty shooty job, and /drg is awesome for enmity shedding. /dnc provides better benefits for a party (Haste Samba, higher ws frequency) and there's some arguments about /whm.

/RUN is not really true in anything but Foret is it?

WHM can /RDM for Frazzle in a rng party, or if there's a party with Melee AND rng. Also provides an awesome eva down buff, however little.

RDM/WHM for Stona.

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Don't even need it in Foret, just bring a RUN main and you can laugh at the shark the entire fight. Two RUN's working together lets you practically sleep through it. Shark is an endurance fight not a DPS race like Tojil, his defensive stats aren't that high and the real trick is staying alive through all his bullsh!t.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Don't even need it in Foret, just bring a RUN main and you can laugh at the shark the entire fight. Two RUN's working together lets you practically sleep through it. Shark is an endurance fight not a DPS race like Tojil, his defensive stats aren't that high and the real trick is staying alive through all his bullsh!t.

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None of the defensive SJ like /RUN or /NIN are "must have" to beat the content. It's still useful if you're not going with above avg mages.

Also it's silly to say "MNK doesn't need /RUN if you can invite RUN main", it's 20 times easier to find a MNK/RUN than a RUN main, it's also a waste of time to find specific job when alternative exists.

I agree that the sub job system right now just creates an illusion of choices due to there really only being 1 or 2 realistic choices for anything considered "challenging"

Your equipment idea would have to do something rather drastic i'd imagine to become mainstream like add new job ability or passive and be rather easy to obtain (some kinda point reward for doing something over and over. Skirmish? idk) or be ready to see "do you have X gear? then you can't come"

And make it so not every single job can equip the gear too perhaps.

quick example:

Necklace only War can equip:
If MNK is your sub job, when you take damage, your next auto attack will be a double attack (can only be done every 5 seconds)

Ring only Rdm can equip:
if RUN is subbed, enspells generates a stackable effect on Rdm for each melee strike made. Elemental spells of the same type do bonus damaged based on the number of stacks. stacks last for 30sec or so?

Hands only MNK can equip:
if Drk is Subbed When you counter attack a % of your HP is restored.

Earring only Thf can equip
if Drg is subbed, gain a JA with a 10min CD that gives the Thf 100% of everyone's enmity.

not the best examples but something like that.

*edited for a slightly better example