Square, your NA/EU data centre has serious issues...

[Marishi-Ten]

Marishi your counter argument to my direct response from SE themselves is that they are lying about having congested servers? They would keep their mouths shut before directly lying to someone.

Not at all. Look at how that email is written. That wasn't written by an actual CS rep from Square, I can promise you that. That's an auto generated email or a canned response email (think SFDC email templates). How many tickets have you opened with them? If I were the CS rep with your cases, I would reply to you with a blanket statement hoping that will make it so you stop contacting the company and you will be satisfied with whatever response is given. The last thing I would want from you is yet another case that I have to dupe out or address for the same reason to the same person with the same information that I'm not at liberty to give out.

They gave you a response hoping you would be satisfied enough to stop calling/logging tickets.

Notice how that's not signed by a person, but the "support team". That's an auto generated email. I bet not a single person looked at your case but dropped it into a canned response queue and ran the send job.

Welcome to support from a publicly traded company.

[Appleh4x]

Not at all. Look at how that email is written. That wasn't written by an actual CS rep from Square, I can promise you that. That's an auto generated email or a canned response email (think SFDC email templates). How many tickets have you opened with them? If I were the CS rep with your cases, I would reply to you with a blanket statement hoping that will make it so you stop contacting the company and you will be satisfied with whatever response is given. The last thing I would want from you is yet another case that I have to dupe out or address for the same reason to the same person with the same information that I'm not at liberty to give out.

They gave you a response hoping you would be satisfied enough to stop calling/logging tickets.

Notice how that's not signed by a person, but the "support team". That's an auto generated email. I bet not a single person looked at your case but dropped it into a canned response queue and ran the send job.

Welcome to support from a publicly traded company.

An auto generated email wouldn't make such a bold claim as taking responsibility for server issues, because if they lied it would cause a lot of problems. That is my only ticket, and the second email inline, I didn't harass their support team I just wrote them a very long message detailing my issue and the steps I took to check if the problem was on my end. The email is written in a very straightforward manner, that you would be in denial about their own statement is ludicrous. The only reason you won't admit it is because you are so adamant about being right in your own way.

[Marishi-Ten]

An auto generated email wouldn't make such a bold claim as taking responsibility for server issues, because if they lied it would cause a lot of problems. That is my only ticket, and the second email inline, I didn't harass their support team I just wrote them a very long message detailing my issue and the steps I took to check if the problem was on my end. The email is written in a very straightforward manner, that you would be in denial about their own statement is ludicrous. The only reason you won't admit it is because you are so adamant about being right in your own way.

I'm not adamant, I just know the CS process. Say you're the CS rep. You are getting literally HUNDREDS of cases a day about the same issue. It's going to irritate you and you will soon become despondent over so many people demanding answers you can't give. You also deal with so many that you become apathetic to the problem (this is called "burning out" in the industry). So you cope by sending out blanket emails. You're meeting your metrics while keep the queue low. This is win-win till QA catches this and 0's out your scorecard for providing inaccurate information, but is viable for a time.

It's not lying. It's telling people what they want to hear so they stop contacting them. I don't blame them honestly. The CS team is probably deadlocked all day long with no support and no hiring on the horizon. I bet only their directors and upper management have access to the Japan offices directly. The CS team won't so they literally can't provide any information and the information they do get is outdated. The company is also keeping them in the dark as they don't trust them to keep internal information internal. There is a reason why the CS department in any company is the last to know. If I was in the Square CS department, you bet I'd churn and burn requests all day long just to stay above water.

Sending an automated message stating "yep it's us our bad" is easier, faster, and more efficient that addressing your issue directly.

I've pointed this out before, but notice that the email isn't signed "John, CS Team, Square Enix NA". A person didn't write that email. It's a canned response. It means little to nothing. Now, if you have a CS rep email you without the standard CS templates and giving you his/her name, we can talk as that's a completely different story.

[Appleh4x]

I'm not adamant, I just know the CS process. Say you're the CS rep. You are getting literally HUNDREDS of cases a day about the same issue. It's going to irritate you and you will soon become despondent over so many people demanding answers you can't give. You also deal with so many that you become apathetic to the problem (this is called "burning out" in the industry). So you cope by sending out blanket emails. You're meeting your metrics while keep the queue low. This is win-win till QA catches this and 0's out your scorecard for providing inaccurate information, but is viable for a time.

It's not lying. It's telling people what they want to hear so they stop contacting them. I don't blame them honestly. The CS team is probably deadlocked all day long with no support and no hiring on the horizon. I bet only their directors and upper management have access to the Japan offices directly. The CS team won't so they literally can't provide any information and the information they do get is outdated. The company is also keeping them in the dark as they don't trust them to keep internal information internal. There is a reason why the CS department in any company is the last to know. If I was in the Square CS department, you bet I'd churn and burn requests all day long just to stay above water.

Sending an automated message stating "yep it's us our bad" is easier, faster, and more efficient that addressing your issue directly.

I've pointed this out before, but notice that the email isn't signed "John, CS Team, Square Enix NA". A person didn't write that email. It's a canned response. It means little to nothing. Now, if you have a CS rep email you without the standard CS templates and giving you his/her name, we can talk as that's a completely different story.

A lie is a lie, and when dealing with technical issues there are no shades of gray about it. You are simply refusing to see the (admitted by SE) fact that they have over congested servers which is causing those hundreds of support tickets to be sent each day. Considering I'm the only person who has posted that email, where do you get off thinking such a bold claim is a canned response?

[Marishi-Ten]

A lie is a lie, and when dealing with technical issues there are no shades of gray about it. You are simply refusing to see the (admitted by SE) fact that they have over congested servers which is causing those hundreds of support tickets to be sent each day. Considering I'm the only person who has posted that email, where do you get off thinking such a bold claim is a canned response?

Because I've used them before. I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or don't understand how support centers work. To some people, it doesn't matter what I say because if it's not what they want to hear, they will just contact again until they get the response they want. You may have fallen into this category.

Like I stated previously, There isn't a reps name to reference in that email. This means something. But, if you are able to get the reps name that sent the email, I can always cross check with their support center to confirm the rep and the information. If confirmed, I will then change my stance on the subject.

I don't want to argue over something so trivial and I do see where you're coming from, but it seems like you are refusing to see it from the other end of the spectrum. Your points are valid and your logic is sound, but again, others may have a different stance and provide the counter debate to your view. Does that make their opinions any less reliable?

I'm merely trying to show the inner workings of a developer/software/CS organization and their polocies (most will just cookie cutter their practices with ones used for years anyway).

Thank you for sharing that email with the Forums though. I haven't logged a ticket with Square as I don't want to burden their CS team. I've been in their shoes once upon a time and trust me, it's a veritable Hell on Earth.

[Appleh4x]

Because I've used them before. I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse or don't understand how support centers work. To some people, it doesn't matter what I say because if it's not what they want to hear, they will just contact again until they get the response they want. You may have fallen into this category.

Like I stated previously, There isn't a reps name to reference in that email. This means something. But, if you are able to get the reps name that sent the email, I can always cross check with their support center to confirm the rep and the information. If confirmed, I will then change my stance on the subject.

I don't want to argue over something so trivial and I do see where you're coming from, but it seems like you are refusing to see it from the other end of the spectrum. Your points are valid and your logic is sound, but again, others may have a different stance and provide the counter debate to your view. Does that make their opinions any less reliable?

I'm merely trying to show the inner workings of a developer/software/CS organization and their polocies (most will just cookie cutter their practices with ones used for years anyway).

Thank you for sharing that email with the Forums though. I haven't logged a ticket with Square as I don't want to burden their CS team. I've been in their shoes once upon a time and trust me, it's a veritable Hell on Earth.

I already gave you the network rep for Square Montreal in the other thread, go look. No cookie cutter policy involves lying to your customers about server congestion.

[Raist]

good grief.. still digging in the heels on this not being a sort of form letter? Guessing Appleh4x has little to no experience with the SE support portal. You will know when you get a more personal email from them. Even though it will still be a guarded response, it has a different "feel" to it. But, the format of that response alone is a dead giveaway... I mean seriously, that separated line right after the salutation, and "Please find your answer below."? If they had a FAQ on this, it would likely have nearly identical language to that middle section. There may be more obvious tells in the source as well, but this fits the format for the typical form letter response:

Dear Valued Customer,

Regarding your recent support request regarding <insert array selection here>. Please find your answer below.

<insert copy/paste or otherwise scripted response here>

Thank you for contacting the SQUARE ENIX Support Center.

This kind of thing is used all the time to streamline things, and it's not just SE. Countless companies employ these things when there is a common issue that they are getting hammered with.

[Noah_]

Nope... wrong again. Research them. The one you are using is an i-Web IP. The registered address is roughly 16 blocks away from the one registered to my game server's IP. You will likely see them take slightly different paths once you get into Canada (if not sooner).

Edit:




The website's trace took off into i-Web's space at hop 13, while the game server went to a reserved IANA IP (private).
http://myip.ms/info/whois/67.205.127.214
http://myip.ms/info/whois/10.2.2.1

Hey Raist,
I was looking at the tracert you have posted here, tho the IP you are using is different then mine, I am going to quess that is because we are playing on different server, mine is 199.91.189.57..... last digit was 58 a week ago and I am on Hyperion, my question is, if looking at the last 5 hops such as
12 70 ms 69 ms 68 ms 38.122.42.34
13 69 ms 77 ms 69 ms 10.2.2.1
14 70 ms 82 ms 68 ms 192.34.76.2
15 71 ms 71 ms 71 ms 199.91.189.234
16 69 ms 69 ms 68 ms 199.91.189.74

we have same hop info other then the red colored one
that line for me is always * * * Request Timed out, ALWAYS
and I have constant random 90k disconnect from the game ever since they added server on the second of September, what does that mean do you know? cus at the moment I can't even do a quest without dropping, and this only started to happen when we got moved onto NA datacenter, none issue in beta or early access, when it was just jp server, and I do not have the 90k when playing on JP server either. and I even ran a tracert with that IP you posted, same result lol the red colored hop was timed out.

[Raist]

hmm.. that is interesting indeed Noah_. Been seeing a lot of traces go up that have a *** right after 38.122.42.34. Just before jumping into the 199 Ormuco subnet. Wonder if perhaps you've stumbled on something there.

Unfortunately, that IP is in the private IP space established by IANA. A generic lookup is basically just going to point you to IANA, and not tell you much. There have been some long-time network gurus posting in some of these threads... perhaps they can get a good dig on it somehow. Always defer to the CNA types when something like that comes up.

Oops.. just noticed the route actually changed slightly at hop 12. Even though it is in the same subnet, I changed the bold markup to make it stand out at hop 12 instead.

Edit:
This is strange indeed. I get routed through that when I try other IPs in that subnet as well. It must be some sort of dedicated line or something--relay, specially bonded T1, maybe even a VPN. Why the private IP shows up for me though is puzzling. I can't ping it or trace to it (well, not in the normal sense--it comes up as localhost). Maybe because I opted to root my home network in the 10 and not the default 192 private space, it's showing it to me. Who knows. But it is weird indeed.

[Julusp]

Just to make thing clear (from Slovakia to NA/EU server):
Tracing route to 199.91.189.57 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.0.1.1
2 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms dial-92-52-32-1-orange.orange.sk [92.52.32.1]
3 1 ms <1 ms 2 ms 192.168.102.13
4 2 ms 2 ms 1 ms te0-0-0-6.ccr21.bts01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.26.45]
5 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms te0-4-0-2.ccr21.muc01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.74.194]
6 15 ms 15 ms 16 ms te0-5-1-0.mpd21.fra03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.74.210]
7 21 ms 22 ms 22 ms te0-5-0-3.mpd21.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.78.169]
8 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms te0-0-0-0.mpd21.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1.98]
9 36 ms 41 ms 36 ms te0-3-0-0.ccr21.lpl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.60.102]
10 106 ms 107 ms 106 ms te0-5-0-4.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.87.66]
11 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms 38.122.42.34
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms 192.34.76.2
14 105 ms 105 ms 107 ms 199.91.189.234
15 108 ms 106 ms 106 ms 199.91.189.57

Those * * * on 12 hop does NOT mean anything, the server there is just refusing traceroute/ping (ICMP) request, so it will give you no info.